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Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN  
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Posted (15 years 14 hours ago) and read 6322 times:

Qantas have announced they plan to buy a significant stake in Air New Zealand from shareholders Singapore Airlines and Brierly who currently own 30 and 25% of the company. Singapore Airlines have also announced they plan to purchase Ansett from Air New Zealand eliminating the competitive issues in Australia.

More to follow when I have more info

214 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (15 years 14 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

Here is A report on the issue from http://www.news.com.au/common/printpage/0,6093,2052237,00.html

Will have to wait until more detailed info is known before making comments or passing judgement


Airlines view shake-up
From AAP

QANTAS has been approached to take a significant stake in Air New Zealand in a deal which would also see Ansett sold.

The proposal would involve Air New Zealand selling Ansett and Ansett International to Singapore Airlines, Qantas said today.
The airline has had preliminary discussions with Air New Zealand's major shareholders, Singapore Airlines and Brierley Investments Ltd.

It has also held talks with Air New Zealand chairman Sir Selwyn Cushing.

A Qantas statement said chief executive officer Geoff Dixon would await further advice or contact from the board of Air New Zealand and the two major shareholders before deciding whether it will take the matter further.

Earlier Air NZ said Qantas had approached its board, which was considering a proposal.

"Air New Zealand ... has been approached by Qantas for the development of a transaction which would involve the acquisition by Qantas of a significant shareholding in Air New Zealand from the two major shareholders, namely Brierley Investments Ltd and Singapore Airlines Ltd," the company said.

"The proposal is conceptual and no valuations have been incorporated in the proposal at this stage."

The Air NZ board said it was too early to form a view on the proposed acquisition.

However, it said it would consider the proposal "in the interests of all shareholders", and had established an independent committee of directors to consider it and other options.

Expert advice is also being sought by the committee.

This report appears on news.com.au.

User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (15 years 13 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

here is the article:


Qantas in Air NZ talks

Tuesday 29 May 2001, 10:05 AM

Qantas Airways Ltd has held preliminary discussions with Air New Zealand's board about taking a "significant shareholding" in the rival airline, Air NZ said today.

The board said Qantas had approached it to develop "a transaction which would involve the acquisition by Qantas of a significant shareholding in Air New Zealand from the two major shareholders".

Those shareholders were Singapore-based Brierley Investments Ltd and Singapore Airlines Ltd.

Qantas said in a statement the transaction under consideration would involve Qantas taking the significant stake in Air NZ and with Air NZ selling Ansett and Ansett International to Singapore Airlines.

"Following the approach, Qantas had preliminary discussions with the major shareholders in Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines and Brierley Investments Limited, and also the Chairman of Air New Zealand, Sir Selwyn Cushing," Qantas said.

Qantas chief executive officer Geoff Dixon said Qantas will await further advice or contact from Air NZ's board and the two major shareholders before it decides whether to take the matter further.

Air NZ chairman Sir Selwyn Cushing said he was stepping aside as chairman pending the outcome of the Qantas proposal.

"The proposal is conceptual and no valuations have been incorporated in the proposal at this stage," the Air NZ board said in a release to the Australian Stock Exchange.

It added that it is too early to form a view on the proposed acquisition.

However, it said it would consider the proposal "in the interests of all shareholders", and had established an independent committee of directors to consider this and other options.

Expert advice was also being sought by the committee.

Sir Selwyn Cushing was stepping aside immediately as chairman and he also intended to make a statement to the Singapore Stock Exchange regarding his chairmanship of Brierley Investments later in the day, Air NZ said.

However Sir Selwyn will remain a director of both Air New Zealand and BIL.

"It is inappropriate in the circumstances for Sir Selwyn to make any further comment," Air NZ said.


User currently offlineAduum From Australia, joined Sep 2000, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (15 years 13 hours ago) and read 5603 times:

If the deal does go through it means that ANZ will sell 100%of Ansett Australia, and their 50%of Ansett International??

Can't SIA only aquire 49% of AN? Where would the other 51% go to?

User currently offlineTullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (15 years 13 hours ago) and read 5601 times:

SQ can buy up to 100% of AN domestic though would need Australian government approval as it currently only has approval for 50%. It can only buy 49% of AN Int'l.

User currently offlineB727-200 From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1051 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (15 years 13 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

And just what Ansett needed.....another change in ownership. If only NZ let SQ by the other 50% in the first place.


User currently offlineAl From Australia, joined Jun 1999, 593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (15 years 13 hours ago) and read 5591 times:

Aduum wrote:
"If the deal does go through it means that ANZ will sell 100%of Ansett Australia, and their 50%of Ansett International??

Can't SIA only aquire 49% of AN? Where would the other 51% go to?"

It's only a technicality and a "paper" requirement to get the 100% of AN to SQ through Government. Subject to appropriate checks and balances SQ can take the 100% of AN itself and up to 49% of AN International. There is no way in hell that any Government in an election year would not allow SQ the 100% of AN if it wanted it! Legislation currently allows 100% foreign ownership of any domestic carrier - flag carriers (such as AN International) have a ceiling of 49%.

Interesting times - but if the NZ board have set up an independent committee to study the proposal, *anything* is possible. It certainly does highlight how precarious things must be in Auckland though if they are willing to listen to and study the proposal.

Cheers/Regards. Al.

User currently offlineTullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (15 years 12 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

The real question is what happens to Gary Toomey. He and Geoff Dixon are not close. They haven't spoken since last year and given GT's comments in Saturday's Melbourne Age we can assume that he has little time for Dixon who he portrays as a media junkie.

If and at this stage it's a big if, NZ falls to QF then it would be hard to see GT working for GD. I assume he'd prefer to be the CEO of a cashed up AN. It would also enable him to move back to MEL which would undoubtedly suit him and his family.

User currently offlineTrentz79 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (15 years 12 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Hmm... I wonder how that will affect Air New Zealand's membership in Star if Qantas really buys a significant stake in her. After all, won't there be a conflict of interest?

User currently offlineAirnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2549 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (15 years 12 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

Don't do it AirNZ.... Please Don't!!

Cheers (Sobbing AirNZ future employee)

User currently offlineV Jet From Australia, joined May 1999, 719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (15 years 12 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

Dont be sad Mikey. Think of it as being a smiling future Qantas Employee Big grin

User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (15 years 12 hours ago) and read 5556 times:

Hang on....Hang on. All QF have said is that they are talking to the shareholders. That has to be reported to the stock exchanges, and Selwyn Cushing has to step aside due to conflict of interest.

There are a number of curly ones here. It effectively creates a monopoly on the Trans Tasman and NZ domestic operations.

This is a typical move by QF. If you see a threat to direct competition, go to the shareholders....that is what they did to Impulse.

Also, under the NZ Govt rules, only 25% can be owned by a foreign carrier, and majority ownership must still be vested in the NZ "A" shares (owned by NZers or NZ companies of which BIL is still constituted).

I think this is a smart move by Geoff Dixon - it just tightens the screws a little more. Think about it. Would QF prefer a cashed up owner of AN, or the currnt arrangement.

The proposal is always a possibility, but there are MASSIVE hurdles to be overcome, and the NZ Govt has not shown any commitment to changing the rules.

So Mikey, you might still get to wear your sister's uniform yet (Just kidding!!!)


User currently offlineStar_member From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (15 years 11 hours ago) and read 5543 times:

don't do it. a direct stake by sq in ansett is a much better option. nz getting swallowed up by arch rival qf would be a complete catastrophe for trans tasman and nz domestic travel.

User currently offlineTullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (15 years 11 hours ago) and read 5543 times:

Will the NZ regulatory authorities approve this transaction? I don't see an issue in Australia as AN merely moves from one foreign owner to another and even then it is arguable that the new owner would increase competition in Australia due to their very deep pockets.

In NZ, however, a foreign company would control NZ and gain ownership of "A" Class shares which are meant to be domestic only. (This is despite the fact the BIL is only nominally a NZ company these days.) Also NZ would end up with a monopolistic domestic aviation scene as QF would immediately withdraw from the domestic market leaving NZ alone as the domestic carrier.

There is no way SQ/AN would want to be involved in the NZ domestic scene especially given the losses suffered by AN/QFNZ and the fact that QF/NZ would dominate trans-Tasman travel meaning feed traffic would be virtually zero.

All this tends to suggest that the NZ Competitions Commission will struggle to approve the deal unless the government wants it to happen.

User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (15 years 11 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Aviatsiya, Its obvious someone took notice of your
strong posting yesterday  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. This is great news
and the biggest shake up in Australian aviation, the
mind boggles at what fleet upgrade Ansett will get
now, A380 anyone.

User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (15 years 11 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Oz 777
The deal has been reported to the ASX, in fact QF
shares are up 15c since yesterday afternoon. It looks
like this has gone in the opposite direction that you
predicted a few days ago.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (15 years 11 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Now I've heard everything. A quick check on our Reuters and Bloomberg news pc's confirm the earlier reports.

So it looks like SIA may well get their way after all?

Interesting to see some moaning about QF taking such a big stake in ANZ, when ANZ did exactly the same in purchasing AN.

This sounds like a pretty good move for QF to really consolidate itself in the region. And if ANZ are really in this pooh with money at the moment as it seems, then they really have no other choice.

I quick call to my broker in AKL suggests that ANZ is quickly but quietly running out of financing options, hence this pre-emptive strike by QF.

Or perhaps it was carefully and calculatingly planned by QF and perhaps SIA?

This is all too much fabulous news...



***Absolutely Ansett***

User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (15 years 10 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

We all know that SQ bought a 25% stake in ANZ for AN right? I mean, why would SQ be interested in ANZ at all? There are more people in Singapore than New Zealand, and ANZ hardly flies anywhere these days, and NZ is located in the furthest corner of the world. ANZ stopped direct services to DPS and now codeshare with SQ. They stopped direct services to BKK and now codeshare with SQ.

Well it looks like the two Aussie rivals to QF, Ansett and Virign Blue, have links to SQ, and indirectly, the Singapore Govt. Wonder how Australia would feel about that. Even the purchase of Optus by Singapore Telecom means that Optus now has indirect links to the Singapore govt.

I don't know how Australians feel but I would feel kind of uneasy if the big corporations in my country were slowly taken over by the government of another country, whether directly or indirectly!

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (15 years 10 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

SYDNEY - (Dow Jones)-Singapore Airlines Ltd. (P.SAL) said Tuesday that management-level talks have been held with Qantas Airways Ltd. (A.QAN) about the Australian national carrier buying SIA's 25% stake in Air New Zealand Ltd. (A.AIZ).
"Qantas' plan is to acquire substantive ownership of Air New Zealand by also buying Brierley Investment Ltd.'s (A.BRY) shareholding in the New Zealand carrier, and for Air New Zealand to sell all of Ansett to Singapore Airlines," Singapore Airlines said in a statement issued from its Sydney office.
Singapore Airlines also issued the statement to the Singapore Stock Exchange.
"The proposal is only a concept. In the interests of shareholders, Singapore Airlines must consider with care the strategic and financial implications of the proposition and weight it against other options that are available," it said.
Singapore Airlines has a 25% stake in Air NZ, while Brierley Investments has 30%.
Ansett is a major Australian domestic carrier that competes with Qantas. The two have faced stiff competition from no-frills startups Impulse Airlines Ltd. and Virgin Blue in the past year, but the local competition regulator recently allowed Qantas to take over Impulse.
Ansett has lost market share in recent months, exacerbated by the grounding of its entire 767 fleet around Easter due to safety concerns, which highlighted the financial problems of Ansett and its Air NZ parent.
(Copyright (c) 2001, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.).

User currently offlineLaserjet From New Zealand, joined Apr 2000, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (15 years 10 hours ago) and read 5501 times:

I'm being completely patriot here, but I don't like the sound of this plan. The last thing we want to have in the Australasian air market is a pally relationship being Air NZ, Qantas and Singapore Airlines. Also Singapore Airlines has a large stake in Virgin Atlantic, and in turn Virgin Blue. The ultimate result is likely to mean less competition across the Tasman, a return to a duopoly in Australia, and a monopoly in NZ.

I know Ansett and its parent Air NZ are struggling, but they have a strong future, if they can get past this hurdle. Both airlines have a great product, which should see them both right. Patience.

User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1519 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (15 years 10 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

I don't think that either the OZ Govt or the NZ Govt would allow it. If they do, the trans tasman traffic would be all under the QF/NZ banner...

they won't allow it!! for sure!!

my 2c


User currently offlineSQFFP From Canada, joined May 2001, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (15 years 10 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

If QF really buys Air NZ and SQ buys Ansett, would there be any changes with regard to the existing alliances? We all know that Air NZ, Ansett, and SQ belong to the star alliance, whereas, QF belongs to one world.

Any thought of this people?

User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 1019 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (15 years 9 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

Personally I think this would be good for the 3 major airlines in OZ/NZ, QF and NZ would own the South Pacific in turn so would OneWorld. The QF/NZ fleets are nearly identical and maintenance costs and the like could be reduced through economies of scale. Adding to that ANZ would have access to the recent QF orders if only through the excersing of options for partial fleet replacement.
For Ansett there would be the much needed capital injection and I think you would find that they would be expected to operate trans Tasman in a big way, forget about the N.Z domestic market, no offense to those in N.Z but probably not worth the effort. Ansett International would also be expected to start those much talked about services to the U.S as there parent SQ would expect them to have at least a reasonable presence in the trans Pacific market, as well as trans Tasman.
In turn Virgin Blue could become the low cost operator that Ansett needs to compete with the lost cost QF operation with the old Impulse fleet which is operated under contract, remembering that SQ holds 50% of Virgin Atlantic and I'm sure that Sir Richard would like to see some return on his investment before it to goes under.
All in all you would find a much stronger QF/NZ and AN as they would all benefit, in particular I feel that Ansett would in the long term be the big winner if only through the opportunity to update its fleet and have the owner they wanted all along.
Also from what I have been reading this looks like it has been under discussion for quite a while, as QF/NZ/SQ as well as Brierley investments have all released the statements to media and respective stock exchanges at the same time. I would not surprise me that this set of deals is only requiring finalisation of prices and government approvals.

User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2406 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (15 years 8 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

Only a decade or so ago Qantas owned 25% of Air New Zealand, and codeshared on trans-Tasman flights. What a circle!

User currently offlineQantasAirways From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1280 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (15 years 8 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

That article has just made the highlight of my day!!!
Great move QF! Well done!
I am happy with this whole plan actually.
I think it is great that QF is looking into buying the stake, and I think it is just as good to see Ansett go from ANZ to Singapore Airlines!

I hope the best for Qantas, and I hope the governments approve of it. But certainly, there will be very much debate about this between the two airlines. Will Air New Zealand really want this?

Don't worry! Qantas flight attendants smile too!

The spirit of Australia

Spirit of Australia
25 Post contains images Singapore_Air : Well this is a shocker. This is too compliated The two airlines are in different alliances! How is this going to work? Will ANZ go into OneWorld? Note
26 Post contains images VH-BZF : Courtesy of ABC Online: Talks underway on possible shake-up of aviation industry Talks are underway on a possible shake-up of the Australasian aviatio
27 Singapore_Air : I still don't like the idea of QF taking or trying to take a Star member away. That idea is quite horrible. Anyway, here's what the lovely airline SIn
28 QantasAirways : This is big. I personally want to see ANZ in One World (sorry Singapore_air) but I think they may stay in STAR. Go Qantas Regards QF
29 Singapore_Air : Here's what Qantas has to say Qantas confirms discussions Sydney, 29 May 2001: Qantas Airways Limited today confirmed it had been approached (Approach
30 Oz777 : Well a few of our contributors here are running around with their hands in the air......but Read the language. The word "concept" is being used. No fi
31 F27 : I hope it does happen to see the Air New Zealand get a big dose of its own medicine back. it has made a huge mess of Ansett and just the sort of thing
32 Oz777 : ......and heading up to Singapore!!!!
33 Aussie_ : I'm staggered, but anyway, back to reality: No such deal will occur with the situation as it is at present. As Oz777 said, there are too many hurdles.
34 Wirraway : Oz777 wrote: Any one here care for a wager as to the outcome? Yep, I'll wager you AUD$100 that Air NZ will lose control of Ansett despite your mention
35 Post contains images Aussie_ : Wirraway: just a reminder that A$100 isn't much these days. I'm in France for six months and I can tell you from personal experience If you want to be
36 Wirraway : Aussie You are right there, Oz777 make that USD$100 if you are agreeable, if not AUD100 is ok. Wirraway
37 Singapore_Air : Go_Air_Canada: What about: Go Singapore Airlines! Now then. As the person ('ve forgotten the name) pointed out, there are many obstacles in this path
38 Jupiter2 : Singapore_Air, yes the Australian market is big enough for a fleet of 767's to never leave Australian airspace. Between them QF and AN have some 46 76
39 Aussie_ : I agree Jupiter 2, well said. Anyone have any opinions on what concessions QF/NZ might make (re: my post further up)???? I'd be interested to hear ide
40 Trentis : Yes Yes Yes YES!!!! I got so excited just hearing about this! Although I love both NZ and AN, they would be so much better if they went their separate
41 BNE : This deal could be good for Virgin Blue, Qantas and Air New Zealand own most of the trans tasman some of which would have to be transferred to Ansett
42 Luftaom : I can't personally see this going through. If Ms Helen isn't going to pass the legislation necessary to allow SQ to increase its holding in NZ from 25
43 JAL : Should Qantas succeeds in getting ANZ expect ANZ to leave Star for OneWorld. ANZ, a member of OneWorld, sounds good to me. Best Regards, JAL
44 Wirraway : Aussie As it looks now QF are trying for 55% of Air NZ, problem being the NZ govt will have to give a big concession to to get over the 25% to any one
45 Singapore_Air : Lovely post Jupiter2. However, you've depressed me. I can only hope now that this deal remains a concept and falls through into a Tasmanian hole. It w
46 Brenjoro_QF : Oneworld is starting to look very good servicewise British Airways QANTAS Aerlingus Cathay Swissair (hopefully) MAS (hopefully) Finnair And ANZ (hopef
47 Wirraway : If the deal falls over that still leaves the problem of how Air NZ refleets AN, not to forget analysts are saying they will loose NZ$180-200 mil this
48 Air Taiwan : I hope Air NZ wakes up and says no to the deal, and after the evil Qantas goes away, NZ sell the 49 or 51% of AN to SQ... It makes more sense... Joini
49 Wirraway : Just picked this posting up on PPrune, and may possibly be the answer this deal will go through: Wirraway Tom Tipper and others - Not 100% sure, but d
50 Post contains images Al : Ansett do not need to have trans tasman rights "transferred" to them - they already have unlimited access to/within and beyond NZ as an Oz carrier und
51 Wirraway : The latest front page news from this mornings (Wed) NZ Herald: Government wants more details on airline proposal 29.05.2001 5.45 pm The Government wan
52 Ryanair : I wonder if why this mystery 'deal broker' has put forward this proposal, are they simply somebody throwing around interesting ideas to get noticed, s
53 Wirraway : Ryanair The mystery broker is mentioned here in todays (WED) Sydney Morning Herald article: By Mark Todd Qantas Airways has launched an audacious plan
54 Jubilee777 : So it's back to SIA for having the final say in this whole mess of business. If SIA wants Ansett (and you can be darn sure they want!) and wish to get
55 Wirraway : Also yet another comment from this mornings (Wed) Mebourne AGE: Everyone flies high in this wing-wing deal By MALCOLM MAIDEN Wednesday 30 May 2001 Whe
56 Wirraway : AI wrote To get around the foreign ownership restrictions in N.Z., Origin Pacific as a N.Z. company buys the remaining shares over the 25% cap on beha
57 Wirraway : Yet another view from this mornings (Wed) Melbourne Age, this one is what its all about: Qantas chief has power of life and death over Air NZ By STEPH
58 Go air canada : this gets better and better doesnt it!!!!! I think this will pass through if qANTAS promise to give anz some independence and no doubt some people wil
59 Jupiter2 : As others have said it makes such a pleaesant change to read a topic and to have hardly any negative comment made by others about the topic or other p
60 Post contains images Jet_guy : I would hate to see this go through!!!!! It would be a bad thing for NZ to be linked with QF!, and then BA, and then they would have to join oneworld.
61 RAAFController : I think you will find that this whole concept is not that new, and has been widely predicted in most of the aviation comunity....in one form or anothe
62 Mx5_boy : So it appears that SIA and Brierly have instigated these proceedings? It was predictable that SIA was going to get AN some way or another, however it
63 Oz777 : Well I have sat back and let everyone have their say, and yes I agree it is good to see some opinion on here without personal attack (apart from a few
64 Dalecary : Oz777, I am happy to have a wager that all this will occur,except QF won't get 51% of NZ. They want around 40% to exert the control they require and a
65 Jupiter2 : OZ777, I have one question, if QF can't get more than a certain percentage of ANZ, then how can then get ownership of Origin Pacific ??? RL
66 Brenjoro_QF : Are foriegn companies allowed to buy 100% of NZ domestic carriers ?? Like in AUS ?
67 Tullamarine : Wirraway and AI, the problem with Origin Pacific owning shares in NZ on behalf of QF as you suggest is that the ownership restriction law is strict on
68 QantasAirways : GO Qantas! I am more than delighted to hear that Qantas may get even bigger. I hope Qantas SWALLOWS Air New Zealand, but I also don't want any jobs to
69 Singapore_Air : That is a good point about the NZ Government. I won't repeat what has been said as that would be stupid, but I find that that is the second-biggest th
70 Aduum : Does anyone know what the value of AN Domestic + International is around?? And will this go straight to ANZ when and if purchased by SIA?
71 Go air canada : an observation... when you ring a travel agents, there is a bttle between singapore and qantas for seats to aus, however, the British always travel wi
72 Post contains images Air Taiwan : just a move QF made to stir up the situation at AN/NZ... spooky qantass~~~~~~ "he he he" ~~~~ he he he....~~
73 Oz777 : It appears we have some very immature contributors on this forum with their little "he he he's". Stick to the facts: It is only a concept at this stag
74 Airnewzealand : OK, I the thing that Gets up my nose, is not Qantas actually buying AirNZ, but Taking our national Carrier. We didnot come into Aussie and take Qantas
75 Aussie_ : Your comment Oz777 about CEOs and things reminds me that Cheong (SQ) completed his studies in Adelaide and thus knows and probably likes Australia. I'
76 Go air canada : oh yes I know about concepts-what about the concept that your statement that ansett will recover as part of anz within 18 months, it seems dead in the
77 BA FOREVER : Pads... what have I told you... Just agree with Mr "I'm so good... you are a British heathen and know not as much about saving the aviation world as m
78 Post contains images Wirraway : Oz777 wrote: As to the wagers, I will gladly take them on. But do not separate the elements. It has to be: QF to obtain 51% of ANZ, ANZ to release 100
79 Ryanair : I read QF is a more popular brand than SQ. First point here, in the UK SQ is so popular of late they've been operating 3 744's a day, FULL!!!! Try get
80 Singapore_Air : An interesting point. I hate long posts. I never know when I read last!
81 Wirraway : Just heard on ABC here that Toomey has said there are a few more deals from elsewhere in the last 24hrs, more twists and turns to come yet. Wirraway
82 Go air canada : Go Wirraway! I wager Oz777 one hundred and fifty uk pounds that in 12 months from now ANZ will no longer control Ansett
83 Singapore_Air : Ah Go_Air Canada! You're getting into my good books!
84 Wirraway : Oh dear here's a few more problems, from this mornings (Thurs) NZ Herald: $60m 'poison pill' awaits if Air NZ quits group 31.05.2001 By FRAN O'SULLIVA
85 Wirraway : Very Interesting, from this mornings (Thurs) Australian: Air NZ's future up in the air By Steve Creedy, Aviation writer May 31, 2001 AIR New Zealand e
86 Nickofatlanta : interesting stuff ... do any of you think this could turn into a Star Alliance vs oneworld feud like in the case of Air Canada / Canadian? Probably no
87 Airnewzealand : Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but the NZ government has just said that due to the massive changes they will have to make, they will not be supporti
88 Nickofatlanta : : ) Good news.
89 Post contains images Air Taiwan : YAY~~~~~~~~ See I thought this is much a better deal!! I think it is because initially NZ won't let SQ have the other half of AN that these things sta
90 Oz777 : AL Many thanks for your comments - I could not agree more. Back when I posted earlier in this thread, I made mention of the NZ Govt having three probl
91 Dalecary : Oz777, I will stick to the wager, and will be happy to donate to the salvos if I am proven wrong. There are a lot of obstacles and the NZ Gov't is obv
92 Dalecary : here is the article. Dale. Peter Harbison: Airy-fairy regulations could ground us By Peter Harbison May 31, 2001 THE "all change airline partners" pro
93 Dalecary : Oz777, I will stick to the wager, and will be happy to donate to the salvos if I am proven wrong. There are a lot of obstacles and the NZ Gov't is obv
94 9V-SPJ : SIA seems to be very interested in buying many of the world's airlines! First VS, then AI and now AN. If SIA enter the Australian Market, they will pr
95 Tullamarine : Mikey, Over 2 hours ago you claimed that the NZ Government had announced they will not support the QF/NZ deal as announced and that NZ had announced t
96 Trentz79 : NZ PM dims prospects of Australian airline buyout WELLINGTON - Prime Minister Helen Clark hardened her government's position today against Australia's
97 QantasAirways : This is heating up. The NZ government won't back this, and things aren't looking too good for Qantas right now. I still hope QF takes control of AirNZ
98 Ttt : the last I heard about ANZ was it going bankrupt within the next 18 months....
99 Tullamarine : There is no doubt that QF may face an uphill battle getting the proposed deal approved in its current form. None of the NZ political parties have expr
100 Singapore_Air : As it looks like hard times for Qantas at the moment with the bureaucrats or whatever, what if the second half of the deal? The SIA - AN part? With Cu
101 Oz777 : Selwyn Cushing has already stepped aside - in fact it was his 'departure' that precipitated the media frenzy about all of this. Under the stock exchan
102 Wirraway : Air Newzealand I would be interested to know where Toomey said they will sell 50% of AN to SIA, I would not believe this would be acceptable to SIA as
103 Airnewzealand : I am deeply sorry guys, But i missed out the 'Might' in front of the AirNZ and SQ deal. I read all of this on NZ TeleText!! It is very informing. It s
104 Aussie_ : Even though I read today that UA has debt problems (as well as the USAir thing), I could imagine UA being very interested. AirNZ is not that expensive
105 Brenjoro_QF : What if SIA say "no, we want all of AN" ?? Is this likely ? I think it is, they dont want ANZ
106 Post contains images Singapore_Air : I think SIA wants overall control of AN, not 49%. Remember, when their 50% deal with News International fell through? That's why I hate Lamlach or wha
107 Star_member : The best solution would be if the NZ govt lets SQ but a larger stake in airNZ or else there will be no competition in the NZ domestic market, and tran
108 Econojetter : Questions: - Is there a 25% cap on single foreign shareholding in Australia? If so, why is ANZ even allowed 49% of Ansett International? Is QF designa
109 Al : You wrote: "Questions: - Is there a 25% cap on single foreign shareholding in Australia? If so, why is ANZ even allowed 49% of Ansett International? I
110 Dalecary : I read yesterday that QF will be happy with somewhere b/w 25-40% of NZ. Dixon and Jackson are reported today as stating NZ will remain an independent
111 Tullamarine : Dale The only problem, apart from NZ Gov't intransigence, with what you suggest is the NZ domestic market. Why would AN/SQ ever want to commence domes
112 Airnewzealand : Well said Dalecary!! Cheers
113 Dalecary : QANTAS-AIR NEW ZEALAND PARTNERSHIP SYDNEY, 31 May 2001: Qantas Airways Limited said today that a partnership between Qantas and Air New Zealand would
114 Star_member : SQ is a much stronger and better fit for AN/NZ in the long run, the NZ govt should wake up to that fact. QF is only offering to buy a stake in NZ as a
115 Post contains images Singapore_Air : I hope this post ain't running out of steam! Better put it at the top
116 Air Taiwan : I don't think the NZ govt would make a mistake again. Neither will Air NZ. Jimmy
117 Post contains images Wirraway : The real reason for the NZ govt's intransigence,is the thought of an Aussie airline getting any sort of control of their national carrier, it makes Ki
118 Wirraway : Post from PPrune (Professional Pilots rumour network) longjohn PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified Posts: 126 Registered: posted 01 June 2001 04:40 ---------
119 Airnewzealand : Sorry to burst your Bubbles guys, but it has been reported that UA and KLM, are wanting to take a significant part of AirNZ as they see it's potential
120 V Jet : I agree totally with this articly from the Herald Sun 01 Jun. Shame if the NZ Govt is too short sighted to see the benefits. I personally believe that
121 Wirraway : Air New Zealand This is twice you have got wrong information, you should read the article as it was posted and note the wording "expressed interest in
122 Airnewzealand : I agree V Jet with alot of that in your previous post!! That person hit it right on the nail!! NZ and Aussie people think alike and with them combined
123 Aussie_ : V Jet, great article you found there. I agree with everything the author has to say.
124 Airnewzealand : Don't take it out on me... It was in the article I read not the one posted here. It was on the Teletext issue. Please don't say that about other citiz
125 Mx5_boy : ************ ***Absolutely Ansett*** ************************
126 Air Taiwan : IMHO, it'll never go through. Jimmy
127 Singapore_Air : Well this has been brought to a crap ending. ny push for a last word anyone? Well after the 100+ posts. I have come to my conclusions: I think there i
128 QantasAirways : Hi All Airnewzealand, Mikey, you have no need to worry anymore as (probably mentioned) Qantas has no intention of changing brand name or place of admi
129 Oz777 : Perhaps all those who decided to have a go at me when I first said that this deal was a no-no would like to comment now. I have to say that for QF to
130 Rushed : I would love to see a qf anz partnership. Keeping both brands alive but obviously changing some things on both sides of the tasman. Eg. having both qf
131 Wirraway : To All I have NOT got the inside info on what will transpire, I am also dead sure that Oz777, singapore_air, QantasAirways,Air Taiwan,Airnewzealand,Au
132 Air Taiwan : Huh? AN will be controled by QF?? I don't think so.... is that a typo?
133 Wirraway : Air taiwan No, I said QF is the frontrunner, but I would never bet on it. Wirraway
134 Go air canada! : yes ill comment, im still happy to have a full wager that in 12 mths time ansett wont be under full air new zealand control. im over the age in our co
135 Go air canada! : mikey-dont worry about them attacking you, some people are plain bitter..you have made excellent points and so has dale. The nz government had better
136 Wirraway : Air taiwan Never drink and type, of coarse I ment SIA not QF sorry about that. Wirraway
137 Post contains images Al : Thanx Go Air Canada - your last two posts without all the unnecessary gloating, verbal diahorrea, baiting and hysteria were great. (Happy Birthday by
138 Wirraway : AI That is very interesting about Northwest, are they cashed up or would they need to form some sort of consortium? Wirraway
139 Oz777 : Northwest as in direction - not airline!!! Yes there is a freeze on capital purchases and projects at AN at present - Toomey's orders until a full app
140 Airnewzealand : Hey Guys, My opinions......well, first of i would like to see QF and NZ together in a sort of manner, with NZ retaining its Corporate identity!! AN sh
141 QantasAirways : Hi all My turn to have a guess. I strongly think that this whole thing all started from Singapore Airlines wanting to force Air New Zealand into the d
142 Post contains images Econojetter : Thanks for the reply, Al. All the questions were somewhat loaded. For the question regarding NZ's holding in AN International, it was to confirm that
143 Singapore_Air : That's a great point QantasAirways! I never realised Yes. That would be excellent, (In an SIA fan's POV), if ANZ sold AN Holdings straight to SIA now,
144 Oz777 : Look at the JP Morgan report in the New Zealand herald. It highlights the fact that if ANZ sells AN for $500 million (a not unreasonable amount in the
145 Airnewzealand : Passenger loads at AN are looking very strong like Toomey said. I checked them at my sisters work!! Who ever said AirNZ was not a profitable airline b
146 Dalecary : As Toomey was primarily responsible for the QF/Airbus deal , can one assume he has a liking for A330s/380s and Boeing 744ERs? If so, then maybe NZ's f
147 Star_member : have you guys read "let's hope air nz doesn't sell the farm" on stuff.co.nz. i agree completely with mr oram.
148 Dalecary : Personally, I think it is rubbish but here is the article in it's entirety. To say that Aussies are more fiercely nationalistic than Kiwis is debatabl
149 Wirraway : Dalecary Amazing, backs up what I said a few posts ago about Kiwis puking at the thought of Aussies gaining control of Air NZ, but its ok if its SIA,
150 Wirraway : Oz777 wrote "Analysts say no - Toomey says yes. Who to believe?. Well with two recent large corporate crashes in Australia, it is looking like some se
151 Oz777 : Wirraway Without going into a treatise on Corporations Law, for a public company there are some very clear obligations. First, there is an absolute re
152 Post contains images Econojetter : I think I misrepresented NZ's financial situation. This should teach me not to trust my own memory. I was indeed of the impression that NZ, while not
153 Wirraway : Oz777 Ok I will have a go to your questions: 1)"I want to put a question to you. If it were QF that was the subject of a potential 50% takeover by a f
154 Post contains images Singapore_Air : Just to indicate where I am on this Nice replies
155 Star_member : Oz777 you make a lot of sense. I would like to point out to Wirraway that the negatives of QF taking a controlling stake in airNZ is not just a matter
156 Wirraway : Star_member Well your wish may come true, from this mornings NZ Heald, looks like the QF deal is doomed: 04.06.2001 By FRAN O'SULLIVAN A groundswell i
157 Dalecary : seems even the Kiwis realise AN has to be at least part sold-off to prevent a collapse of the business. $9billion debt and another 4-5 billion to be f
158 Airnewzealand : Looks like SIA is not interested in AN either!! Or so it said in the article Watewate posted!! God, who is interested in AN?? Only AirNZ?? Cheers mike
159 Go canada! : Bottom Line Spelled Out For Qantas/Air New Zealand By Staff Reporter Frank Perry at 11:56am, 5th June 2001 Qantas should not be allowed to acquire mor
160 Go canada! : another interesting article. By Simon Louisson Wellington: Just how bad is Air New Zealand's financial position and what will happen to the national c
161 Singapore_Air : That was good when it said SIA was "a highly powerful and successful competitor" Music to my ears! Still no comment from me. Nothing happenning yet...
162 Go canada! : sorry i didnt see that the article ive pasted has already been done..sorry all please dont start getting off your high horses. and of course SIA is a
163 Oz777 : Well air canada, it looks like you have got it wrong again. Air New Zealand does not own ANY Australian International carrier. It has 49% of Ansett In
164 Singapore_Air : As the days pass, this "concept" looks like it's not going ahead. As an above article has said, Singapore Airlines is distancing itself from the whole
165 Star_member : i agree with you Oz777.
166 QantasAirways : This deal is going nowhere but the gutter. I've actually come to the conclusion myself. In my opinion, I think that competition is competition, and th
167 Post contains images Air Taiwan : Qantas leaves; Air NZ gives 50% of AN to SQ. Air NZ gets funding from SQ; AN gets better management. Full stop. (wishful thinking... )
168 Go canada! : agree qantas airlines...What I really dislike is that Air New Zealand is quite happy to take Ansett away from us, and Qantas going to take them is the
169 Al : The CEO of QF (Dixon) along with the deupty CFO (Fenn) and General Counsel (Johnson) met in AKL yesterday (June 06) for private discussions with the I
170 Al : Have seen this mentioned a couple of times in the thread, so to set it straight, there is *no* "designated" Australian flag carrier any longer, nor ha
171 Mx5_boy : Cripes! I couldn't believe all the posts on this subject. Surely most people would realise that the processes involved in negotiating this proposal wi
172 Oz777 : Al You are correct about no "specific" flag carrier, but there are several issues that still affect QF, particularly in respect of it's "golden share"
173 Post contains images Air Taiwan : Just wanted to say that Australia Asia was IM, not IW. Regards Jimmy
174 QantasAirways : Go Air Canada, Thanks alot for your agreement. Regards QantasAirways
175 Brenjoro_QF : Air NZ's foreign ownership cap to go 07.06.2001 By FRAN O'SULLIVAN assistant editor The Government is expected to ease restrictions on direct foreign
176 Dalecary : Funny how the NZ Gov't appear likely to relax foreign ownership rules the day after the Gov't met with QF officials? To me this infers the QF deal may
177 Al : Well - that's torn it then. I don't put much stock in media reports, but having independent confirmation that the draft proposal to raise foreign owne
178 Go canada! : well you know whats brought this save of face from the nz gov? Its this forum. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also think media reports of anz executives recieving
179 Star_member : let the cap be removed and let SQ increase their stake (if they still want it). i'm sure SQ will increase the NZ stake as NZ is profitable not AN. thi
180 Post contains images Singapore_Air : Mark. I think it's well known that the only (well the main) reason why SIA wanted ANZ was because of AN. Now, if they can't get AN separately and pret
181 Dalecary : Is the wheel really starting to turn in favour of QF/SQ being able to pull this all off. The media has gone from endorsing it to being negative,back t
182 Aduum : It has been mentioned before that SIA has around $14billion in cash reserves.... has anyone been told or know what QF's bank account looks like?
183 Tullamarine : QF have just had additional credit facility of $A2,000,000,000 approved by lenders plus is cashflow positive so would have little trouble absorbing NZ
184 Singapore_Air : Aduum: As much as that figure you quoted is lovely and cute, they only have USD $2.1 billion in the bank. Oh well. It's more than a very very big majo
185 Wirraway : The news gets worse for Ansett/ANZ: Ansett tipped to lose $400m By GEOFFREY THOMAS Saturday 9 June 2001 The news goes from bad to worse for troubled a
186 Singapore_Air : Get yer hair and ass out of there now Cheong!
187 QantasAirways : I read in the Courier Mail that the New Zealand Government is considering selling parts of AirNZ (from the Brierly stake) to private business people i
188 Go canada! : "New Zealand Government to ease foreign ownership caps as ministers gain an understanding of the problems it faces. " Well its about time that helen a
189 Oz777 : Latest news!!! Apparently the deal is now "dead" (Sydney Morning Herald, Saturday June 9). Seems the Unions have vetoed QF gaining a share in ANZ, due
190 Singapore_Air : Oh well. I for one won't cry! I would like to think about the next step if this really is true. I'll write more later. Goodbye!
191 Post contains images Al : Laugh at Oz777 - matey, Golden Rule - don't trust a newspaper article !! Wait till you hear something from those involved directly. After all, you are
192 Rmm : oz777 How would the unions veto a QF stake? Have they got a seat on Airnz's board? Ade
193 Wirraway : My gut feeling is things are coming to a head fairly quickly, and would not be surprised if this coming week we will have some definate direction wher
194 Airnewzealand : I agree Wirrawey, this topic is getting pretty boring don't ya think!! Cheers mikey
195 Go canada! : OZ777- as you said to me, never trust one newspaper article, its nice to see you can make typos too.Dont worry im not going to swoop down off my high
196 Star_member : let there be sanity, let SQ increase it's stake. the star alliance is such a neat group with its current members, it wouldn't be the same if airNZ cro
197 Go canada! : how interesting, a new zealand website reportng that qantas/anz could go ahead..very interesting...from www.stuff.co.nz Qantas stake in Air NZ a goer
198 Dalecary : Oz777, are you kidding??? I have seen no formal announcement that the deal is dead and if you watched 4 corners last night(June 11) you would have see
199 Post contains images QantasAirways : Dalecary, That is so strange! I was watching Four Corners last night awell!!! That is such a coincidence!!! Anyway, it also said in that show that "If
200 Air NZ : Well the deal has already kinda being dumped. No person or company is allowed to hold more than 15% of Air New Zealand, Government Rule, and this has
201 F27 : The sooner Ansett can rid of ANZ then Ansett might not be held back as much. What is the New Zealand government frightened of gettin up with the mode
202 Airnewzealand : F27, I think you have it mixed up!! Sorry!! If AirNZ leave AN and noone picks oit up like you are saying, then it will go Bankrupt and there will be n
203 Rmm : Just to fill people in with whats happening inside AN- Toomey is set to address two media conferences within the next few days. First is the national
204 Go canada! : Airlines feel the heat Well the pressure is on, the question is are anz going to fiddle while rome burns? Frm AAP 12jun01 PRESSURE is mounting for the
205 Air Taiwan : isn't this old news by now?? (Re Go canada! post) Jimmy
206 Wirraway : From todays Sydney Morning Herald: Fate of Qantas bid revealed on Monday By Darren Goodsir Qantas's proposal to take a controlling stake in its embatt
207 Oz777 : Dale: The information in the 4Corners docu was put together nearly two weeks ago - and in fact was really only a chronological table of the events. Al
208 Dalecary : Oz777, I agree with everything you say. Experts only have opinions. Apparently Toomey is having 2 press conferences in SYD this week where some intent
209 Star_member : what do you mean dubious business practises of the singaporeans? all business people of all nationalities are only interested in making money, this cr
210 Dalecary : OK, dubious might be the wrong word but secretive and strange are not. The show portrayed various Singapore financial companies that could all be link
211 QantasAirways : I am looking forward to the outcome.
212 Go canada! : so am i.....it seems that anz are being abit coy over their losses.... Toomey in dispute over Ansett losses By Geoffrey Thomas ANSETT chief Gary Toome
213 Oz777 : Dale: Only one comment - two actually!! Can we start a second thread as this one takes hours to load now!! You have picked up on the Singapore Busines
214 Wirraway : Oz777 Agree with you one hundred percent that we all start a new thread, why don,t you take the inititive and start it,as the guy that originaly start
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