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Emirates Just A "Small Presence," Says USA Today  
User currently offlineaviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 21085 times:

"Emirates Airline, owned by the government of Dubai, is a small presence among international giants like KLM," so said a USA Today front-page story on May 5th written by Kevin Johnson and Thomas Frank. They were talking about the arrest of Faisal Shahzad at Kennedy airport.

Emirates, the reporters continued, offers "just two daily direct flights to the United Arab Emirates."

That was a coffee-spitter if ever there was one, and about the most ludicrous characterization of an airline I've ever heard.

A small presence * in the United States * is what they meant, I think. Say what you want of USA Today, the paper's air travel coverage is comparatively decent most of the time, and we'd expect that Johnson and Frank have a reasonable grasp of the global airline scene.

At last count, Emirates is the eighth largest airline in the world measured by revenue passenger kilometers (RPKs), ahead of players like JAL, Qantas, Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific, and just a notch behind British Airways. Its all-widebody fleet includes the planet's largest number of Boeing 777s and A380s, with over 50 of the latter still on order. It operates hundreds of daily flights, not "just two," into its Dubai mega-hub.

"A small presence compared to giants like KLM"? Emirates operates 132 aircraft, all of them long-haul widebodies. KLM has a total fleet of 115, split about 50/50 between narrow-bodied Boeings and widebodies.


I addressed this gaffe in an article recently, as part of a larger discussion of airlines size and quality rankings. I'm not allowed to link to the article here, but if you drop me an email I'd be happy to share the URL.


PS

[Edited 2010-05-09 18:30:47]


Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewatewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 20988 times:

But Emirates is a pretty smaller player in the US. I read the article and it appears as though Emirates is referred to as small in the context of US-International travel. I'm not sure why the author went crazy on a selective misquote of his/her own error. Not much controversy here IMO.

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8341 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 20985 times:

I'd assume they're talking about flights to/from the US. Nothing against USA Today, but it's generally written for 5 year olds, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just tried to keep it simple.

BTW, thanks for forcing me to put my middle initial in my name for my photos. I kept getting emails complementing me on my articles.  



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineaviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 20659 times:

Quoting watewate (Reply 1):
But Emirates is a pretty smaller player in the US. I read the article and it appears as though Emirates is referred to as small in the context of US-International travel. I'm not sure why the author went crazy on a selective misquote of his/her own error. Not much controversy here IMO.

It sounds like you didn't really read my post.


PS



Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 20148 times:

Quoting aviateur (Thread starter):
"Emirates Airline, owned by the government of Dubai, is a small presence among international giants like KLM,"

I think its pretty obvious that everything was in relation to the US. I don't understand why you are taking this so personally, to me it seems like you just want to promote an article.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7971 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 19992 times:

I'm sure if the whole article was posted the context would be obvious. Then again, you know reporters.


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 19798 times:

Here's the whole article:

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...ws/20100505/1anycbomb05_cv.art.htm

The context doesn't help much IMO, but maybe they meant to say there are two non-stops from New York. Assuming they meant "from the U.S." still leaves out Houston, San Francisco, and L.A.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 19685 times:

The irony here is that, Emirates in fact is an 'international giant' with no domestic ops compared to KLM.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinedirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19263 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 7):
The irony here is that, Emirates in fact is an 'international giant' with no domestic ops compared to KLM.

Neither does KLM....by domestic I assume you mean intra-Europe, in which case, yes, EK lacks a regional network. Even the other city-state flag carriers, CX and SQ have a regional feeder system (Dragonair and Silkair).

EK is a pretty impressive player in the US; for such a new entrant their network is impressive. Keep in mind that the Netherlands/Europe-US market is larger than UAE-USA. Plus, the US East Coast is only 7-8 hours away from AMS, and a lot of KL's US flights are operated by A330s. EK can't use anything smaller than a 77W.

Not disputing that KL/BA/LH are bigger in the US than EK, just pointing out that putting things into context always helps.


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 18971 times:

@directorguy My bad. I really meant 'domestic'. I thought KLM had domestic ops. Should have thought twice before writing it.
But on any case, EK is the bigger international player of the two. At least they operate to every continent.



The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinegoldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 582 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18450 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Would be interesting to see a comparison of RPMs. I don't have one at hand but that would pretty much settle the argument one way or the other.

User currently offlinecobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17995 times:

Government airline ...ha funny  

User currently offlineworkwings From United States of America, joined May 2010, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17465 times:

So long as the US press doesn't acknowledge the existence of mega airlines outside the States, they also don't need to compare quality, performance or other indicators. For if you do, the US carriers come up quite short...as the rest of the article in Ask the Pilot indicates...

[Edited 2010-05-10 02:16:16]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25556 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17403 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting aviateur (Thread starter):
A small presence * in the United States * is what they meant, I think

That's what I assumed they meant.

It seems like a bit of a song and dance for what is, in the end, only a poorly constructed sentence.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemoek2000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17175 times:

From the article:

"Shahzad picked up his boarding pass for Flight 202, scheduled to depart JFK at 11 p.m. Monday. The flight to Dubai in a wide-bodied Boeing 777 had a connection in Karachi/Islamabad."

A connection in Karachi/Islamabad (which are not the same city) enroute to Dubai? I guess this guy had a 2 hr deadline for the article?


User currently offlinejfk787nyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17175 times:

Ofcourse the quote is wrong.

But I imagine right now Emirates will start to rethink expansion to the USA as it seems that US Government is starting to really watch over flights departing to Dubai on Emirates screening for Terrorist or No Fly people.

It seems the Terrorist of the world have made there transit hub and preferred airline to be Dubai and Emirates.

I am starting to imagine that Dubai is getting a lot of unneccesary press lately about this.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16762 times:

Its not just the "small presence among International Giants" which raises a few eyebrows, I love the quote from the federal official of "I was never in fear of us losing him" I would say that with the door closed they were fairly close to "losing him", unless of course they were relying on the usual JFK 1 hour wait on the taxiway for take off !!

Its just another typical example of a major media company whose journalists have little or no knowledge of specialised subjects.


User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15498 times:

Storm in a tea cup. Blame the sub-editors.

User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5579 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15214 times:

Quoting workwings (Reply 12):
So long as the US press doesn't acknowledge the existence of mega airlines outside the States, they also don't need to compare quality, performance or other indicators.

I think the mistake here is to refer to USA Today as "press" - this rag is notoriously poor on aviation reporting, and you can probably figure that the article was written in a manner dismissive of Emirates' quality as a favor to one or more US carriers.

USA Today has never been a legitimate news source, but on aviation matters, they're not even fit for fish wrap.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2897 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14951 times:

Actually, this article isn't that far off. When you take the typical ambivalent American traveler, "international giants" like KLM are well known because they have served the U.S. for many many years and have forged incredibly close ties with a major American carrier (in KL's case, NW). Many U.S. airports, including fairly small ones (TUS comes to mind), would put up "Northwest/KLM" on the roadways, terminal signage, etc., exposing ALL travelers to the KLM name and brand even if the airline never served the airport. When I flew out of MKE in March, I was a bit surprised to see "Lufthansa" above the entrance to the Concourse C area. Obviously, KL has never served TUS and LH has never served MKE, but the airlines nevertheless enjoy a virtual presence throughout the country! Emirates has only served the U.S. since June 2004, and secondary gateways at IAH, SFO, and LAX have only very recently been added. While the more savvy and well-heeled travelers know about EK (and of course us a.netters) most Americans have never heard of them at all. EK seems to have heavily invested in advertising and sponsorships in the U.K. and Australia, where you see their name on everything from billboards to sports stadiums. You don't see much of that anywhere in the U.S. - I saw one ad of theirs on the New York subway, and another in TBIT. That's it. Ask an average American about foreign airlines. Qantas? The kangaroo! Virgin Atlantic? The bar on the plane! Emirates? Who is that?


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11457 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13414 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I'm not in a position to qualify if the article is right or wrong, as many here pointed out, Emirates is not a famous brand among all normal travellers and their presence in the United States, compared to European big players, is still very limited with 4 gateways, neither is very strong in New York like BA, VS, AF or LH.

No doubt EK is not a " small presence " in the world aviation, and their objective to develop DXB as a hub, being now ranked among the top 15 airports ( passengers numbers ) was clearly achieved.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13202 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 19):
Ask an average American about foreign airlines. Qantas? The kangaroo! Virgin Atlantic? The bar on the plane! Emirates? Who is that?

Sadly, this is symptomatic of my fellow countrymen's general ignorance, misinformation and disinterest of things foreign, not just airlines.



"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2981 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12651 times:

Quoting aviateur (Thread starter):
"Emirates Airline, owned by the government of Dubai, is a small presence among international giants like KLM," so said a USA Today front-page story on May 5th written by Kevin Johnson and Thomas Frank. They were talking about the arrest of Faisal Shahzad at Kennedy airport.

This article I believe was written in context of JFK, double daily flights to DXB.

Quoting moek2000 (Reply 14):
"Shahzad picked up his boarding pass for Flight 202, scheduled to depart JFK at 11 p.m. Monday. The flight to Dubai in a wide-bodied Boeing 777 had a connection in Karachi/Islamabad."

A connection in Karachi/Islamabad (which are not the same city) enroute to Dubai? I guess this guy had a 2 hr deadline for the article?

Very poorly written article.

However what this journalist wants to convey is that, the Emirates flights on that day had connections via DXB to ISB, KHI. The Middle eastern carriers including EY, QR, EK are the carriers that offer the best connections to Pakistan.

As far as EK being a small player was obviously w.r.t USA only. EK has 35 weekly flights out of USA/ 38 weekly flights out of N. America/ 45 weekly flights to the Americas. BA, LH, AF have a huge presence when compared to EK in this region.

Similarly if we look at the Indian sub continent, BA + LH/LX + AF/DL/KL collectively have approximately 136 weekly flights to India, and nothing to Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka. While EK has 185 weekly flights to India itself and if we combine Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka ... EK has 263 weekly flights.

The point is its just the geographical advantage.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11492 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
I think the mistake here is to refer to USA Today as "press" - this rag is notoriously poor on aviation reporting, and you can probably figure that the article was written in a manner dismissive of Emirates' quality as a favor to one or more US carriers.

USA Today has never been a legitimate news source, but on aviation matters, they're not even fit for fish wrap.

Please tell us what it is that you read that does a better job covering aviation? I for one think USA Today spends much more time on aviation than most other publications.

Quoting Skyguy (Reply 21):
Sadly, this is symptomatic of my fellow countrymen's general ignorance, misinformation and disinterest of things foreign, not just airlines.

I don't really think that you are qualified to speak for the country. I wouldn't say that in general Americans are ignorant, misinformed, or disinterested. Sure there are people who fit these definitions but the real problem I think is the people like yourself who are constantly trying to make these unfounded generalizations about the USA.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11221 times:

That's what you get for reading the USAToday. Look at all the pretty colors and pictures!


Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
25 TVNWZ : Sadly, this is symptomatic of my fellow countrymen's general ignorance Oh, please. If anything it is symptomatic of not knowing about an airline 99% o
26 huaiwei : I nearly jumped reading this comment. How can anyone dismiss an airline as "lacking a regional network" just because it does not have a dedicated reg
27 ikramerica : Yep. USAToday. Looking for more information? Continued on page... wait, the article is not continued. That's the whole thing? Seriously? Enjoy the St
28 Post contains images Jacobin777 : It will have no bearing on EK. They will expand to the United States as they see fit as there is Open Skies between the United States and the United
29 AABB777 : What should/could EK, QR and/or EY do to market themselves to more Americans? Out of the three mentioned, EK has the most brand recognition in the U.
30 newark777 : I've seen Qatar ads a lot on NBC in the morning here in the NYC market. Those are the ones I've noticed, at least.
31 Post contains images BalkantoDelta : This is the dumbest generalization. Small presence or not, make sure you give AN UPDATED LIST TO AIRLINES GOING DIRECT TO DUBAI and beyond. Seriously.
32 billreid : You know that is exactly what they meant because they mention "just two flights a day" in the same sentance. You do what so many do .... you took som
33 directorguy : Since EK is an all-widebodied airline (and because of relatively restrictive bilaterals), it cannot operate on-the-hour regional flights like Europea
34 GothamSpotter : That sentence wasn't as ignorant as it was pointless. Emirates IS a small player, but that has nothing to do with the incident, as all airlines large
35 indolikaa : Quoting UAL747DEN: I don't really think that you are qualified to speak for the country. I wouldn't say that in general Americans are ignorant, misinf
36 BMI727 : Just how do we get from one poorly written article in USA Today to young Americans being degenerate idiots? Better put away the broad brush before so
37 jetdr77 : for a statement like that to be coming from a reputable news agency it seems like they are out of touch with the world
38 indolikaa : I am the offspring of two professional educators. One still teaches and is approaching 40 years of active employment. I must admit, in regards to the
39 BMI727 : I don't necessarily either, but there has to be better evidence than a USA Today article about Emirates. It doesn't really bother me, since it just m
40 newark777 : That's like saying Air Tahiti Nui is a major presence in the US because they are a major player in the Tahiti market.
41 surfandsnow : Look at all the stuff they do in Europe (especially the U.K.) and Australia. They sponsor sports teams and stadiums, inundate the national markets wi
42 Post contains links Airport : There is. There is plenty of evidence to be found. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ro...f/FINALReport2006GeogLitsurvey.pdf http://news.nationalgeog
43 Post contains images StarAlliance38 : This is perfect for my journalism class I also like consistency when they call Emirates "Emirate Airline" and "Emirate Airlines"
44 413X3 : We are teaching them who "Americas top Model" or "Idol" is, the only thing people care and engross themselves with is entertainment.
45 aviateur : No, it wasn't pretty obvious at all. "Emirates Airline, owned by the government of Dubai, is a small presence among international giants like KLM." T
46 aviateur : You should also discuss the media's distressing propensity to spin minor incidents into supposed near-catastrophes. This brings to mind the unfortuna
47 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...I've seen EY adds all over CNBC. Don't see as many QR or EK ads. That being said, ostensibly it seems EK is doing well on most (if not all) of the
48 indolikaa : I remember that incident. I was completely uninterested; it just did not strike me as a huge emergency. My wife thought I was on drugs for being so b
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