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DL 744 Charter Seating  
User currently offlinexbraniffone From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 80 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9006 times:

What are the seating arrangemenst for the 744 charter palnes at DL? Do they pack em in or do the soldiers get some leg room? Is it all coach seathing?

Thanks


DC3 8 9 10, 1011, BAC111, 707 720 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 320 330 340
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8793 times:

Quoting xbraniffone (Thread starter):
What are the seating arrangemenst for the 744 charter palnes at DL? Do they pack em in or do the soldiers get some leg room? Is it all coach seathing?

The 16-ship DL 747-400 fleet has the same interior configuration: 65J/338Y. There are no specific charter birds - all 16 ships are used interchangeably with scheduled operations and charter operations.


User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1961 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8212 times:
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Quoting xbraniffone (Thread starter):
What are the seating arrangemenst for the 744 charter palnes at DL? Do they pack em in or do the soldiers get some leg room? Is it all coach seathing?

Have DL moved into the US military charter market and if so, will the be looking for overseas refueling bases such at that operated by Omni Air International at SNN? Or unlike Omni Air International's DC10's, do the 747-400's have the legs to operate the US Military charters without the need for fuel stops?



Next Flights: CX178 MEL-HKG; CX257 HKG-LHR; EI387 LHR-SNN; EI384 SNN-LHR; CX250 LHR-HKG; CX135 HKG-MEL
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8212 times:
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Quoting xbraniffone (Thread starter):
What are the seating arrangemenst for the 744 charter palnes at DL? Do they pack em in or do the soldiers get some leg room? Is it all coach seathing?

We did away with the "charter" configured 747's when we retired ship# 6612(742).



Made from jets!
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6166 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8019 times:
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Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 1):
65J/338Y

How do they decide who gets the J seats? Is there some kind of raffle or something, or does it go by rank, years of service, or somthing like that?



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineUTAH744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7992 times:

Quoting "tonymcthgue".

Have DL moved into the US military charter market and if so, will the be looking for overseas refueling bases such at that operated by Omni Air International at SNN? Or unlike Omni Air International's DC10's, do the 747-400's have the legs to operate the US Military charters without the need for fuel stops?


NWA has had planes in the CRAF program for decades. They have been the biggest MAC charter legacy airline over that same period. As far as the Iraq/Afghanistan wars they have used AMS as the fuel stop.



You are never too old to learn something stupid
User currently offlineewrkid From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7979 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
How do they decide who gets the J seats? Is there some kind of raffle or something, or does it go by rank, years of service, or somthing like that?

My dad came back from a year of service in Iraq last year and they flew on an NW(back then) 747 and he was able to get J class. He was thrilled to have an "Egg" seat, but I am pretty sure it goes by rank and years of service.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7781 times:
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Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
How do they decide who gets the J seats? Is there some kind of raffle or something, or does it go by rank, years of service, or somthing like that?

O4's and above go into J class as well as E6's and above. Many times there won't be that many O4's or E6's so in that case the baggage detail goes to J class.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1459 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7732 times:

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 2):
Have DL moved into the US military charter market and if so, will the be looking for overseas refueling bases such at that operated by Omni Air International at SNN? Or unlike Omni Air International's DC10's, do the 747-400's have the legs to operate the US Military charters without the need for fuel stops?

DL inherited their AMC business from NW with the merger. NW was part of the FedEx team along with others like TZ for bidding and operating the regular pax charters. NW had the majority of the pax responsibility in the team, but decided not to assume the flying and it was deferred to TZ being another collective member of the team. In early 2008, NW decided it then wanted to assume this flying as it was profitable and FedEx thereby abruptly removed TZ from their team which ultimately lead to TZ's demise (on a side note, there is an on-going lawsuit between the TZ estate and FedEx/NW(DL) over breach of contract as TZ's existing contract was through the 2009 allocation). NW initially used their two 747-200s on this business with other aircraft and now that DL is in charge and the 742s are gone, I believe about 4-6 of the 744s are allocated to AMC business, but as stated above, they are interchanged with any of the 16 total in the fleet.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlinepaulinbna From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6985 times:
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Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
Many times there won't be that many O4's or E6's so in that case the baggage detail goes to J class.

When I came back from Desert Storm. I volunteered for baggage duty as well as two of my friends (which I talked into doing baggage detail also) and we got the first choice of seats in economy. Which where the exit row seats.
As far as I can remember it was separated by rank all the officers got first, then the higher ranking NCOs (E6 and above got business, then everyone else was in the back.
By the way it was a Pan Am 747 in 1991.



Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

FWIW, NW had the preponderance of the passenger birds pledged into the FedEx Team, but this garnered entitlements far in excess of anything NW was willing to fly. Remember, the best way for a major carrier to make money from peacetime entitlements (arising from aircraft pledged to CRAF for use in an emergency) is to delegate the flying to someone who can do it cheaper and, as was/is the case with World, TZ, NAO, Omni and now Ryan (having hired an SOC guy who used to do this for TZ), have systems and relationships in place to do it reliably and in compliance with the labyrinthine requirements of AMC. NW did use the 742 fleet to some extent for CRAF, but TZ was the designated carrier to do the entitlement flying -- until NW allegedly had the ingenious plan to take more of it for itself. Most of the time when you saw 747s from major carriers doing flying, you were seeing the majors strongarmed into helping with big pushes and surges that the incumbent AMC carriers on the teams couldn't handle by themselves, or you were seeing the majors picking up a little flying to bring in cash from otherwise-idle crews and equipment, again usually because one of the usual suspects couldn't meet the requirement. The whole point of the Team system is that the majors don't typically want this flying, because administering it is a specialized function and because they can basically make the money that they would make from flying without actually doing any flying. The carrier doing the flying is paid at a rate that approximates the average per-mile cost to all participating carriers of somewhat-comparable overseas-capable aircraft (3 groups, basically, smaller, medium, and largest). TZ, say, could do it (including overhead) for way less than the average, and would pay part of what it received back to the team as a commission for the entitlement; the commissions would be distributed to the team members that pledged aircraft. So, NW would be paid for its entitlements by the team , which would get commissions from the carrier doing the flying, and NW would be rewarded without actually having to do any flying. I would note that the long-term viability of these teaming arrangements may be threatened a little by the fact that the majors' costs have come down so much (ex-fuel), so that the spread between them and the Omnis and Ryans (and thus the size of the commissions payable) may be reduced.

User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1368 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
I would note that the long-term viability of these teaming arrangements may be threatened a little by the fact that the majors' costs have come down so much (ex-fuel), so that the spread between them and the Omnis and Ryans (and thus the size of the commissions payable) may be reduced.

And again, here I am learning more from you than I get on the job.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1459 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2992 times:

I knew Bill (wjcandee) would chime in and explain it better than I  


35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offline88Wayz From United States of America, joined May 2010, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):

I can answer this one for you, having personally made this type of flight several times...about 30 minutes or so before boarding, they'll call for the baggage detail (if they're loading up the plane; at the stateside airports, the airline ground handlers do it and the baggage detail boards with the rest of the group), then they'll typically call for about 12-15 E-7s (and sometimes E-6s) to act as "pushers"--that is, directing folks to their seats). Then, when it comes time for the boarding call, first they'll call for O-5s and above, then any CW5s, then any E-9s (and above in some instances). They'll get in line first, and then they'll round up everyone else. Naturally, the seniors get the "first class" section (in this case, the J), as they get on the plane first; sometimes they'll let the baggage detail go up and pick out their seats first, but not always; then they fill the rest of the plane up from the rear to the front. If the Y section is full, they'll then direct the overflow into whatever seats are left open in J. If Y is not full after everyone has boarded and the pushers get their seats, then they'll let people move around into the open seats.


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Thanks, guys. I'm blushing again. Glad you find it helpful!

I don't mean to say that the teams will disappear in the next go-round or anything, and the concept of pooling the pledged aircraft to gain an economy of scale in terms of administering the peacetime work is still valid. However, I'm sure that you can all see the majors' costs coming more in line with that of other carriers, thus reducing the spread that creates the pool from which to pay the "reward" to the non-flying team members. (Actually, you CAN see it, as the cost calculations by airline are done each year and published online, following which those costs are averaged by the AMC to determine its reimbursement rate (subject to adjustment for fuel price)).


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