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O+D Traffic At U.S. Airports  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10595 times:

Often on these boards, people debate the local traffic produced by a particular airport. This link from Boyd Group provides O+D traffic for the 4th Quarter 2009 and average fare for about 200 U.S. airports. Let me remind you, that this is O+D traffic only, so the numbers may be different than usual (i.e. ATL is not the busiest O+D airport). Note, the tables say Q3, but I believe the data is Q4...so much for quality checking in Boyd's shop.

http://www.aviationplanning.com/Images/4Q2009Report.pdf

A few highlights/insights:

CVG O+D traffic surged as DL cut fares and focuses on local traffic. However, CVG's O+D traffic is still somewhat weak for a market of its size.

DAY traffic plunged in response to what happened in CVG.

MKE traffic surged as the battle between F9/FL went on. Fares however are extremely low.

DEN local traffic is on the verge of surpassing ATL, though the growth may not be sustainable.

MEM O+D traffic is pathetically low....places like OMA and TUS have more.

MIA's local traffic is weak despite significant growth by AA. FLL has nearly twice the number of local passengers.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinessides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

Surprising that O&D at CVG can rise that much.

But the more disturbing thing in this report is that the average fare is down almost 5% -- to $182 each way, including taxes and fees.

This means that the average round-trip fare is just $364 -- and after you take out taxes and fees, the airlines are probably taking in about $325 per passenger.

This is simply not sustainable. Thanks goodness for some additional consolidation.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4706 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10398 times:

Quoting ssides (Reply 1):
But the more disturbing thing in this report is that the average fare is down almost 5% -- to $182 each way, including taxes and fees.

Two things

1) 2008 fuel was much more expensive, pushing fares higher then.

2) The drop in fare has probably been recouped and more through expanded baggage fees.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10343 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
CVG O+D traffic surged as DL cut fares and focuses on local traffic. However, CVG's O+D traffic is still somewhat weak for a market of its size.

De-hubbing hurts business travel but in some cases it actually helps leisure passengers by shifting traffic to major cities and cheaper 1-stop flights.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
DEN local traffic is on the verge of surpassing ATL, though the growth may not be sustainable.

It is not really growth. It is bouncing back from UA's massive cuts and F9's Ch. 11. The growth was WN and UAX.

Denver tends to have outsized O&D due to its isolation. It is a very long drive to the next major city in almost any direction.


User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2025 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10239 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):

What's really sad is that TOL doesn't generate enough passengers to make their list.

I must say, I don't necessarily agree with all of his talking points, but he does put out a good product with regards to numbers like this.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10188 times:

MSY has more than double the O&D traffic than MEM does, and even more than BNA, according to this list. Also more than MKE, IND, JAX, PIT, SAT, CLE, CMH. Not bad...plus from what I can tell, reasonably good yields.

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10088 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 3):
It is not really growth.

It is growth, as DEN is producing more O+D traffic today than ever before in its history.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 3):
Denver tends to have outsized O&D due to its isolation.

True, though it's still pretty impressive to produce nearly the same O&D as ATL, even though your metro area has half the population.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):
2) The drop in fare has probably been recouped and more through expanded baggage fees.

This is important to remember. Baggage fees (as well as a slew of other fees) don't appear in the base fare data being reported.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 5):
MSY has more than double the O&D traffic than MEM does, and even more than BNA, according to this list.

You can thank the folks in BTR for a little of that. BTR is probably leaking 200,000 O+D pax to MSY each year.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10081 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
You can thank the folks in BTR for a little of that. BTR is probably leaking 200,000 O+D pax to MSY each year.

Yep...BTR def contributes. I'll take it. Their loss is our gain.


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1977 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
DAY traffic plunged in response to what happened in CVG.

Interesting. I think this kind of puts to bed those theories that the LCC's would just stay out on the fringe (DAY, IND, SDF) instead of entering the CVG market if DL cuts any more flights.


User currently onlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
MEM O+D traffic is pathetically low....places like OMA and TUS have more.

Yeah, but check out those yields! That's why the RJ heavy hub works.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6784 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9837 times:

I'm not sure what it means, but this is RDU.. perhaps someone could tell me if it is a good thing or a bad thing?

RDU

2008Q3 pax = 2,114,311
2009Q3 pax = 2,092,681
Change = -1%

2008Q3 Fare = $172.54
2009Q3 Fare = $163.79
Change = -5.1%

LOH Adjusted = 14.51
LOH Average = 911

So what is LOH? I understand some of the others. And what does this mean cause I haven't really seen anyone fighting to add any significant flights at RDU like at other areas like MKE, DEN, STL, IND, etc..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9729 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 10):
So what is LOH?

Length of Haul.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 10):
but this is RDU.. perhaps someone could tell me if it is a good thing or a bad thing?

I wouldn't try to read too deeply into the numbers. You'd need more detailed data to do that. On a superficial level, it shows that even with fares dropping at RDU, you didn't stimulate any new traffic which is generally not good. However, the declines are relatively small and I wouldn't look too much into it. Plus, issues with the economy can skew the numbers a bit.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 8):
I think this kind of puts to bed those theories that the LCC's would just stay out on the fringe (DAY, IND, SDF) instead of entering the CVG market if DL cuts any more flights.

I agree. When the time is right, I expect LCC's will attack CVG. The local market is too large to ignore and poorly served by the fringe airports.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9624 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
True, though it's still pretty impressive to produce nearly the same O&D as ATL, even though your metro area has half the population.

But DEN has considerably lower fares as well, which leads to higher O&D.

Interesting to see once again that MSP has higher O&D and fares than DTW, a commonly unrecognized thing here on A.NET.

Jeremy


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9543 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Interesting to see once again that MSP has higher O&D and fares than DTW, a commonly unrecognized thing here on A.NET.

Up until last year, DTW was producing more O+D. You'll notice that in the 2008 numbers, DTW was bigger. However, the decline in fares at MSP (thanks mainly to WN) has stimulated the MSP market, while DTW's economic problems have been a drag.

These numbers do illustrate why DL chose to keep DTW as a hub vs. CVG. Even with DTW's problems and CVG's O+D gains, it's still producing 3.2 million in O+D vs CVG at 1.1 million.


User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1983 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9514 times:

I noticed that ATL, always "the worlds busiest airport", doesn't have the most passengers when it comes down to O&D. They had 6 million paxs whereas LAX had 7.8 million, LAS had 7.1 million, MCO had 6.5 million, etc... I think this is further proof that when you take away the fact that ATL is a transfer point, it's not the busiest.


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26010 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9483 times:

Keep in mind these numbers are solely domestic which helps inflate the performance of primarily domestic airport such as DEN versus an airport like MIA that have larger international component.

Also keep in mind the numbers are for a single quarter, Q4 more specifically which in some cases is a lull season at some airports, while entering a peak travel period to places such as Florida. A better comparison with be entire 2009 vs 2008 if people want to judge between airports.

[Edited 2010-05-10 13:19:52]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9460 times:

Rank per the numbers


Airport………. 2009Q4………. % Change

1 LAX ……….7,697,702 ………. 2.90%
2 LAS ……….7,127,812 ………. 0.50%
3 MCO ……….6,490,063 ………. -1.90%
4 ORD ……….6,196,690 ………. -5.90%
5 ATL ……….6,095,158 ………. -4.50%
6 DEN ……….5,867,412 ………. 3.60%
7 SFO ……….5,763,186 ………. 10.60%
8 PHX ……….5,484,700 ………. 1.00%
9 LGA ……….5,105,783 ………. 7.30%
10 BOS ……….5,010,402 ………. 7.90%
11 SEA ……….4,846,803 ………. 0.10%
12 DFW ……….4,820,468 ………. -4.40%
13 JFK ……….4,274,882 ………. -2.00%
14 EWR ……….4,251,549 ………. -1.60%
15 FLL ……….4,222,881 ………. 2.20%
16 PHL ……….4,146,694 ………. -0.70%
17 BWI ……….4,011,652 ………. 3.80%
18 SAN ……….3,897,527 ………. 1.20%
19 MSP ……….3,633,553 ………. 10.20%
20 TPA ……….3,526,604 ………. -3.90%
21 DTW ……….3,377,615 ………. -2.70%
22 DCA ……….3,352,103 ………. 4.20%
23 IAH ……….3,201,384 ………. -0.70%
24 MDW……....2,894,202 ………. 5.60%
25 PDX ……….2,585,028 ………. -0.40%
26 STL ……….2,398,857 ………. -1.70%
27 CLT ……….2,348,648 ………. 8.40%
28 SLC ……….2,304,139 ………. -3.30%
29 OAK ……….2,272,041 ………. -4.20%
30 IAD ……….2,270,376 ………. 1.10%
31 MCI ……….2,243,697 ………. 1.10%
32 SNA ……….2,224,372 ………. 5.90%
33 SMF ……….2,141,233 ………. -3.20%
34 MIA ……….2,121,421 ………. -6.20%
35 RDU ……….2,092,681 ………. -1.00%
36 SJC ……….1,988,016 ………. -4.60%
37 AUS ……….1,910,428 ………. -1.00%
38 MSY ……….1,895,858 ………. 3.70%
39 BNA ……….1,868,533 ………. -2.40%
40 PIT ……….1,856,520 ………. 0.40%
41 SAT ……….1,807,425 ………. -3.20%
42 IND ……….1,748,601 ………. -0.80%
43 RSW ……….1,679,290 ………. -4.40%
44 CLE ……….1,653,106 ………. 1.10%
45 HOU ……….1,602,643 ………. -1.00%
46 MKE ……….1,590,922 ………. 21.90%
47 CMH ……….1,487,831 ………. 0.60%
48 PBI ……….1,433,099 ………. -4.30%
49 SJU ……….1,432,597 ………. 2.80%
50 DAL ……….1,419,311 ………. -2.80%

[Edited 2010-05-10 12:35:52]

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7241 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9113 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
MIA that have larger international component.

Almost 50% of MIA pax are international so that would kill MIA numbers a lot.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2897 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8882 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):

CVG O+D traffic surged as DL cut fares and focuses on local traffic. However, CVG's O+D traffic is still somewhat weak for a market of its size.

CVG's O&D will remain weak for a market of its size until a popular LCC comes to town.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):

DAY traffic plunged in response to what happened in CVG.

I don't think DAY has too much to worry about. AirTran and Frontier aren't going anywhere.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
MKE traffic surged as the battle between F9/FL went on. Fares however are extremely low.

I took advantage of MKE's low fares all the time when my folks still lived in Lake Forest, IL. You couldn't beat the $90 fares between LAX and MKE!

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
DEN local traffic is on the verge of surpassing ATL, though the growth may not be sustainable.

Atlanta has been a major American city for about a century now, while Denver only recently (late 80s/early 90s) came into its own. Many people are just now discovering what a great city it is. No offense to Atlanta, but Denver seems to have a more educated and wealthy population that travels often. I think the growth there certainly is sustainable.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):

MEM O+D traffic is pathetically low....places like OMA and TUS have more.

As with CVG, MEM's O&D potential is suppressed by the lack of LCC service. If WN ever came to town, the numbers would be much higher. However, as you can see, the city does phenomenally well for itself by hosting a full-fledged international hub - by far the smallest market that does so.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
MIA's local traffic is weak despite significant growth by AA. FLL has nearly twice the number of local passengers.


Fares into MIA are quite a bit higher than those into FLL. Fort Lauderdale is also much more convenient for MOST of those folks actually visiting Florida - cruises, beaches, and popular spots like Boca Raton are right near there.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1977 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8769 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 18):
As with CVG, MEM's O&D potential is suppressed by the lack of LCC service. If WN ever came to town, the numbers would be much higher. However, as you can see, the city does phenomenally well for itself by hosting a full-fledged international hub - by far the smallest market that does so.

MEM already has AirTran to ATL. FL also serves Tunica to ATL which is not too far down the road from MEM.


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8740 times:

LGB Long Beach California was down 5.7 % i thought that delta has added quite a few seats into LGB in the last year? Has jetblue cut some flights or is this purely a victim of the recession? With frontier starting up hopefully that will help as there is no nonstop between DEN-LGB!!

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26010 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8722 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 20):
Has jetblue cut some flights or is this purely a victim of the recession?

Substitution of smaller E190 equipment.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33179 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8540 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
MIA's local traffic is weak despite significant growth by AA. FLL has nearly twice the number of local passengers.

But it is domestic numbers only. No surprise there with this result.



a.
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1201 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8210 times:
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Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Interesting to see once again that MSP has higher O&D and fares than DTW, a commonly unrecognized thing here on A.NET.

If you adjust the ratio of O&D proportionate metro area population and then further introduce the variable for relative isolation is is no surprise that DEN and MSP and OMA are near the top of the list.
Denver is 600 miles to OMA and 900 miles to MSP. MSP is 400 miles to Chicago. These are the distances where it is just too painful to drive and you gladly put up with the hassels of flying. . On the other hand if you happen to live in Indy, a 3 1/2 hour drive to Chicago seems a lot more pleasant than flying.

Simply consider , what cities can you reach from Denver after driving for 10 hours?



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently onlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7580 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Interesting to see once again that MSP has higher O&D and fares than DTW, a commonly unrecognized thing here on A.NET

Prior to WN's arrival, DTW's and MSP's O&D had run neck and neck for a number of years with MSP on top some years and DTW on top others. What I find "interesting" are those who simply refuse to admit this was the case.


25 Post contains images sldispatcher : And I'm proud to be in a #1 city! Uhhhh.....no, I'm not! SHV I get tired of hearing the whiners on a.net complaining about fares not supporting the tr
26 sldispatcher : BTW, what is the rough break even for an RJ flight on a per mile basis?
27 Atlwest1 : Denver is a great city and it serves the mountain region intensly well. But the sheer amount of colleges and college graduates not to mention the she
28 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : As people have said these numbers are ONLY domestic. So yes ATL still crushes DEN on O&D overall and MIA isnt as low as it looks on here since it
29 AirBuffalo : ATL has lots more international traffic than DEN ... so they would still 'crush' DEN if intl were counted.
30 mogandoCI : another part is probably the ski resorts close to DEN, so it inflates the O&D numbers even though it's more air-to-road connections. take EGE, it'
31 steeler83 : I was somewhat surprised that PIT had higher O&D than CLE. I thought the traffic originating or destinating there would have been higher, or so I
32 BNAOWB : Of the top 150 airports listed in the report, only 11 are within a 10 hour drive of DEN (only 1 within a 5 hour drive!): COS 1:48 GJT 5:30 RAP 6:44 A
33 surfandsnow : EGE isn't very close to Vail (about 35 miles from it) but Denver is 100 miles East of Vail, and DEN is even further (probably about 120 miles). The d
34 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : Some Vail skiers use Denver but most of them you see are going to Winter Park, Breckenridge(the most lift tickets sold ski area in America), Keystone
35 Post contains images surfandsnow : I-70 can be extremely treacherous in the winter, and don't even think about trying to drive it on a Friday night westbound or Sunday evening eastboun
36 deltal1011man : ok and if you take away the Delta 1000+ daily flights its not the worlds busiest.........i fail to see your point.
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