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Iowa Aviation Thread #1 - The Corn Is Sprouting  
User currently onlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4554 times:
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So, with our neighboring state Minnesota having threads, I thought Iowa could have theirs. New service this summer includes:

DSM-CVG returning 1x daily
FOD-MSP starting 2x daily (MCW-MSP will remain at 3x daily)
DSM-MCO on FL increased to 3x weekly
CID-AZA increasing to 5x weekly for the summer

Also, last I heard BRL is doing extremely well with their service to STL and ORD, which started late January.

Also being discussed in another thread is WN and either DSM/CID and how CID would fill a big gap in their route map, while drawling from ALO and as a far away as DSM and MLI.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
New service this summer includes:

DSM-CVG returning 1x daily

Well, I don't know if I'd consider this new. DL has been running this route for years..at one time it was 7x daily. It was gone for a couple months with Delta's drawback of the CVG hub. I highly doubt this route will still be around this time next year.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1944 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 1):
I highly doubt this route will still be around this time next year.

And I feel the same about FOD-MSP as well. To me eliminating the tag status it had with MCW will spell the death knell for FOD. We'll see how it goes, I guess.


User currently offlineevanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 2):
And I feel the same about FOD-MSP as well. To me eliminating the tag status it had with MCW will spell the death knell for FOD. We'll see how it goes, I guess.

Isn't this route subsidized by the govt?

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
So, with our neighboring state Minnesota having threads, I thought Iowa could have theirs. New service this summer includes:

DSM-CVG returning 1x daily
FOD-MSP starting 2x daily (MCW-MSP will remain at 3x daily)
DSM-MCO on FL increased to 3x weekly
CID-AZA increasing to 5x weekly for the summer

Also, last I heard BRL is doing extremely well with their service to STL and ORD, which started late January.

Also being discussed in another thread is WN and either DSM/CID and how CID would fill a big gap in their route map, while drawling from ALO and as a far away as DSM and MLI.

LOVE the Thread. Good call! It's about time.

What days does FL run DSM-MCO. I knew about Saturday, but is it Sunday also?

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
DSM-CVG returning 1x daily

This is route is running out of gas...

I want to know how the ExpressJet chartered flights to Branson loads are doing...


User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4449 times:

Quoting evanbu (Reply 3):
What days does FL run DSM-MCO. I knew about Saturday, but is it Sunday also?

Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. It was originally Saturday and Sunday service.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1944 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4447 times:

Quoting evanbu (Reply 3):
Isn't this route subsidized by the govt?

I believe it is. But DL has been chipping away at these tag routes, and I just can't see FOD sustaining life on its own. To me the next saying from DL will be "it didn't work out" and FOD will be gone forever.


User currently onlinenssd70 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

I want to know how the ExpressJet chartered flights to Branson loads are doing... It dosen't start until the 17th of May.

Doug


User currently onlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4411 times:
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Quoting dbo861 (Reply 1):
Well, I don't know if I'd consider this new. DL has been running this route for years..at one time it was 7x daily. It was gone for a couple months with Delta's drawback of the CVG hub.

Yes, I should of clarified that. However it has been gone for a few months, thus why I said it was "returning". Honestly I don't know why they even bother running it 1x, but hey anything being added back I'll take.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 2):
And I feel the same about FOD-MSP as well. To me eliminating the tag status it had with MCW will spell the death knell for FOD. We'll see how it goes, I guess.
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
I believe it is. But DL has been chipping away at these tag routes, and I just can't see FOD sustaining life on its own. To me the next saying from DL will be "it didn't work out" and FOD will be gone forever.

I certainly agree. What amazes me is FOD will be 2x daily on Saturdays, while MCW will only be 1x (and has been). FOD doesn't have nearly as much traffic as MCW (not that they have much, either).

Quoting nssd70 (Reply 6):
I want to know how the ExpressJet chartered flights to Branson loads are doing... It dosen't start until the 17th of May.

I would be interested as well.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineevanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 7):
I certainly agree. What amazes me is FOD will be 2x daily on Saturdays, while MCW will only be 1x (and has been). FOD doesn't have nearly as much traffic as MCW (not that they have much, either).

If they scrap it, I suggest 2X daily to DBQ. It did ok-ish when NW had it a year or two ago..


User currently onlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4376 times:
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Also, I just noticed ALO is down to 3x saab. This is too bad as ALO has had a RON CRJ for the past few years + 3 other daily saabs. I took the CRJ ALO-MSP-EWR in November- nothing special but it sure was neat to fly out on a jet (and much more pleasant).

Also worth mentioning, effective in June:

One of the three DSM-MEM runs will be run by ASA.
DSM-ATL goes from 2x to 3x daily.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently onlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4376 times:
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Quoting evanbu (Reply 8):
If they scrap it, I suggest 2X daily to DBQ. It did ok-ish when NW had it a year or two ago..

Suggest what to DBQ? DL? AA pretty well runs the show there, and I don't see any reason for them to return when the Saabs are on their way out (or at least some of them).



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 7):
Honestly I don't know why they even bother running it 1x, but hey anything being added back I'll take.

I've looked at non-revving on it in the coming months, and many of the flights are full..or at least filling up. It has always done fairly well. I've flown on this route MANY times (often I took the last seat available on it), and I've actually had the pleasure to operate the flight a couple times during my Comair days.

Quoting evanbu (Reply 8):
If they scrap it, I suggest 2X daily to DBQ. It did ok-ish when NW had it a year or two ago..

I could see it happening, maybe, the economy does seem to be improving after all. I wouldn't bet the farm on it, though (I figured that would be a very appropriate cliche for this thread  


User currently offlineevanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 11):
I could see it happening, maybe, the economy does seem to be improving after all. I wouldn't bet the farm on it, though (I figured that would be a very appropriate cliche for this thread

If Eagle can make it work to ORD. Then DBQ can handle at least 1X or 2X daily service to MSP.

Then there is SUX. SUX has lost SO much service because of OMA. I think they are down to 4X to MSP and that's it. I remember when UA ran 727's in to Sioux City...crazy.


User currently onlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4097 times:
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Quoting evanbu (Reply 12):
I think they are down to 4X to MSP and that's it.

3x actually, although at least they are RJ's rather than Saabs.

Quoting evanbu (Reply 12):
Then DBQ can handle at least 1X or 2X daily service to MSP.

I just don't see DL allocating the assets to do it, even if they can handle it. Just my opinion and I'd love to be proved wrong and see it return.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...-rises-on-list-of-busiest-airports

Good news for DSM. We're now the 85th busiest airport in the country..at least in terms of passengers.


User currently onlinenssd70 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

Branson Air Express started service between Des Moines and Branson,MO today. Anyone know what the load count was?

Doug


User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3423 times:

The OAG update this week shows that Delta is ending both CVG-DSM and LGA-DSM.

User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3396 times:

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
WN and either DSM/CID and how CID would fill a big gap in their route map

The problem with serving CID is the glaring question - where would WN fly to? MDW is awfully close by (from Chicago it'd be faster to drive to Cedar Rapids/Iowa City than fly in most cases) and I hardly think flights to BWI or BNA would work. Obviously they could serve DEN, and maybe MCI or STL, but I think DSM would be better as you could certainly serve MDW from there.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineCLEpirate From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

COex used to fly from CLE to DSM. Relize this was dropped. any idea how the loads were on this route. I travel to DSM every quarter and going through ORD is painful. Would be happy to see COex restart this route.

User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Quoting CLEpirate (Reply 18):
COex used to fly from CLE to DSM. Relize this was dropped. any idea how the loads were on this route. I travel to DSM every quarter and going through ORD is painful. Would be happy to see COex restart this route.

CLE's days are numbered as a hub if the CO/UA merger goes thru.


User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

First off thanks Iowaman for starting this, long overdue!

I know we here at CID have a lost quite a good chunk of service with the downturn of the economy, we have lost CVG, STL, ATL and LGA for starters. Granted, hubs in CVG and STL have been downsized or closed. CID really needs a good link back to the Southeast, I still scratch my head why DL pulled ATL from here, flights were good and from what I heard always had good yields. I know flights to the southeast were a priority for the airport, and at the time when we landed ATL the airport said if service didnt work out they would pursue US to CLT or NW/DL to MEM. I really would like to see ATL come back or DL start MEM. Hopefully once the economy is back we can see some more expansion. CID really needs a low fare carrier like Frontier to Southwest to come in.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 17):
The problem with serving CID is the glaring question - where would WN fly to? MDW is awfully close by (from Chicago it'd be faster to drive to Cedar Rapids/Iowa City than fly in most cases) and I hardly think flights to BWI or BNA would work. Obviously they could serve DEN, and maybe MCI or STL, but I think DSM would be better as you could certainly serve MDW from there.

I don't think MDW would be a problem at all. SW flies to MDW from IND which is significantly much closer. MDW is about 230 miles or a 4 hour drive from CID, same as STL. Plus low fare ATA used to fly from CID to MDW. Also think of Corpus Christi TX as a similar market, it only has flights to HOU which is about the same distance.

The problem with DSM on the SWA system is that it is too close to OMA and MCI, and I think SWA banks on having leakage from DSM to these markets. CID splits the difference between MDW and OMA pretty evenly, Plus if service to CID was considered it could draw from DSM, MLI, ALO, DBQ, BRL, southwest WI and western Illinois, probably even as far as MCW. That's well over a million people. I think people would easiyl be drawn into using CID as opposed to making the trek and dealing with traffic and tolls to MDW.

CID / Iowa City has a good business base with companies like AEGON, Rockwell, PMX, Quaker Oats, General Mills, University of IOwa, Alliant Energy, etc. Business travel here has always been plenty good.

I could see CID started out as maybe having MDW only flights something like 6x daily, or perhaps they could do something like 4x MDW, 2x DEN and 2x STL. G4 has been very successful here, one of their larger stations with service to 4 different cities. People here like to fly and go on vacation. With SWA running out of expansion possibilities to large cities I think it will need to look into the more smaller/medium sized markets. Look how successful markets like BMI and MLI have had with AirTran. PFN, GSP, CHS are all good starters, granted they have more of a vacation component that CID ever will have.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 13):
Quoting evanbu (Reply 12):
Then DBQ can handle at least 1X or 2X daily service to MSP.

I just don't see DL allocating the assets to do it, even if they can handle it. Just my opinion and I'd love to be proved wrong and see it return.

I would agree, NWA restarted DBQ only to have DL yank the service again. I don't see it starting again in the foreseeable future.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 2):
And I feel the same about FOD-MSP as well. To me eliminating the tag status it had with MCW will spell the death knell for FOD. We'll see how it goes, I guess.

do you think these routes will be pulled once the saabs go away or will one of the cities see CRJ service? ON a side note I see once of the CID-MSP has been downgraded to SF3. Seems like DL shows no love here at CID, pulling ATL and CVG, an not providing any metal with a first class section (NW used to run DC9s, CR9s and E75s here). Shame DL apparently does not see any potential here at CID, or it least it appears that way. They really could have had a good opportunity to challenge UA and AA here, seems like they want to keep 3rd place.


User currently onlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3101 times:
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Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 17):
The problem with serving CID is the glaring question - where would WN fly to? MDW is awfully close by
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 17):
Obviously they could serve DEN, and maybe MCI or STL,

As CIDFlyer said, the amount of local business traffic and connections offered in Chicago would be very successful IMO. Personally, I think MDW, DEN, LAS and/or PHX would do well- they could knock G4 out of the market as there is quite a market to both LAS and PHX even without connections for Allegiant.

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 20):
CID really needs a low fare carrier like Frontier to Southwest to come in.

Along with DSM- I'm not counting G4 or barbie jets to MKE and less than daily FL service to MCO.

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 20):
The problem with DSM on the SWA system is that it is too close to OMA and MCI

That is very true. Huge leakage.

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 20):
see once of the CID-MSP has been downgraded to SF3. Seems like DL shows no love here at CID, pulling ATL and CVG, an not providing any metal with a first class section (NW used to run DC9s, CR9s and E75s here).

DL has really cut back at CID- however AA and UA remain strong. CID is really hurting for any type of plane larger than a CRJ.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1944 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 20):
do you think these routes will be pulled once the saabs go away or will one of the cities see CRJ service? ON a side note I see once of the CID-MSP has been downgraded to SF3. Seems like DL shows no love here at CID, pulling ATL and CVG, an not providing any metal with a first class section (NW used to run DC9s, CR9s and E75s here). Shame DL apparently does not see any potential here at CID, or it least it appears that way. They really could have had a good opportunity to challenge UA and AA here, seems like they want to keep 3rd place.

Unfortunately, yes. I think FOD could be gone soon just because it's not a tag route anymore. It certainly can't handle a CRJ. MCW might be able to go to CRJ service, but I think that's going to be a tough route to sustain without the Saabs. It's too bad that DL doesn't value the Saab like NW did.

DL doesn't have much love for any of these smaller midwestern markets. They're letting UA and AA take a big share of the business when they have the territorial edge. What's happening at CID is disappointing. There should absolutely be an ATL flight. If you're flying to the southeast states with DL, ATL is often your only option.


User currently onlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3023 times:
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Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
think FOD could be gone soon just because it's not a tag route anymore. It certainly can't handle a CRJ. MCW might be able to go to CRJ service, but I think that's going to be a tough route to sustain without the Saabs. It's too bad that DL doesn't value the Saab like NW did.

I agree, FOD is really going to be a struggle, and CRJ's are going to be an issue. They do however have DOT approval to revert back to the FOD-MCW-MSP routing at any time they wish (unlikely IMO). They are not getting any more EAS money for doing MSP-FOD and MSP-MCW separate however. MCW might be possible to support with 2x CRJ, but even that is a stretch.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
DL doesn't have much love for any of these smaller midwestern markets. They're letting UA and AA take a big share of the business when they have the territorial edge. What's happening at CID is disappointing. There should absolutely be an ATL flight. If you're flying to the southeast states with DL, ATL is often your only option.

UA and AA are certainly eating away at DSM and CID market share. Even with the merger, UA is pretty close behind DL in terms of passengers carried at DSM. AA isn't far behind either. Personally, I don't see why DL doesn't at least throw a couple CRJ's to MEM if they aren't going to with ATL, but I suppose DTW works for eastern connections, just not as convenient for the southern U.S.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11610 posts, RR: 61
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 23):
UA and AA are certainly eating away at DSM and CID market share. Even with the merger, UA is pretty close behind DL in terms of passengers carried at DSM. AA isn't far behind either.

It's interesting - because I was at DSM this morning, and I must say, it seemed like DL was pretty much running the show there. DL had multiple flights all leaving simultaneously out of multiple gates and all the gate areas seemed quite full.

United's flights weren't leaving for a while, but they did have several parked RON - including a mainline plane.

AA/Eagle seemed rather small by comparison - at least that was my perception.


25 evanbu : I was there too and couldn't agree with you more. Any chance CO will resume DSM-EWR with DL pulling out? It works well for MSN, so why not do DSM...
26 MSPNWA : Timing was probably a reason it appeared that way. DL is indeed largest at DSM, but UA and AA aren't too far behind. I did a quick search of Saturday
27 CIDflyer : I think those would be good destinations as well from CID for potential SWA routes. Probably would knock G4 off those routes, but the plus side would
28 dbo861 : Possibly after the merger. United was the biggest player in DSM for years before the DL/NW merger. They have a huge customer base in DSM. I could see
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