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TAM Is Welcomed Into Star Alliance  
User currently onlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 13256 times:

Tonight TAM is being officially welcomed as a full member of Star Alliance in an event for 800 guests on the Sugar Loaf Mountain complex in Rio de Janeiro. It's a very interesting venue atop the Urca Mountain (the lower mountain of the both that are identified as Sugar Loaf), where it is possible to observe planes on the approach to SDU like this:


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Photo © Allan Martins Antunes



Star Alliance finally has a South American member again. Congratulations, TAM!

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13222 times:

I thought there was a ceremony in Sao Paolo in the afternoon?

User currently onlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13088 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 1):
I thought there was a ceremony in Sao Paolo in the afternoon?

AFAIK it's just the unveiling of a A320 with Star Alliance livery that will take some guests to Rio.


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1512 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12991 times:

God, finally. It seems like this has been in process forever.

User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12852 times:

TAM is one of the classiest airlines in Latin America.... its network is a great fit for Star and will particularly be helpful to UA/CO/US in building their Latin networks.

User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12795 times:

Just curious, since I don't know much about South America aviation:
Sometimes I feel SkyTeam's prospects in South America are possibly like OW's prospects in Asia: limited and in 3rd place (after UA/CO merger).

What can SkyTeam do alliance wise to remain growing and viable in Deep South America? Now with UA gaining momentum in South America with CO, SkyTeam has got to make a move. What is it?



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12698 times:
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Quoting peanuts (Reply 5):
What can SkyTeam do alliance wise to remain growing and viable in Deep South America? Now with UA gaining momentum in South America with CO, SkyTeam has got to make a move. What is it?

One thing Delta has is its ATL hub which is the next best hub for South America after Miami. SKYTEAM in South America depends on AV and Star, first Aero Mexico is in Skyteam in one of Latin America largest markets. AM doesn't do much for Skyteam in Brazil, Chile or Argentina but there re options. GOL of Brazil would be great for the southern cone of South America, GOl flies to Buenos Aires, Montevideo and other main cities.

The big queston is what happens at TACA/ AV & COPA, COPA is Star and AV/TACA seems going to Star too. Will COPA remain in Star if AV/ TACA joins that allaince ? Will Skyteam make AV/ TACA an offer tehy can't refuse ?

AV having long term relationships with Air France and Delta would seem an obvious for SKYTEAM. Sure COPA and TACA/ AV could be in Star but does Star really need 5 hubs from Peru to Guatemala, Lima, Bogota, Panama City, San Jose and Guatemala City are all too close.

COPA should be in one alliance with AV/ Taca in another one.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12668 times:
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All materials this month were produced with Star information inclusive the TAM magazine. Annoucements are ready to be disclosed as of today.

TAM Blue card become Star Silver while TAM Red Card become Star Gold. Don't know what they will do with their and star Gold customers travelling in international flights out of Sao Paulo as their lounge can't support even business class customers.
In Rio (GIG) they are looking into increase the size of the lounge, which is a very good measure considering TP, UA, US and in the near future CO/CM will join the Star terminal (T2)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12652 times:

if think that's too many Star hubs, see its super-high density within Europe :

FRA, MUC, (a bit of DUS), ZRH, (a bit of GVA), VIE, BRU, LHR (if u count bmi), CPH, ARN, LIS..... and that's only the ones i can remember now  
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
AV having long term relationships with Air France and Delta would seem an obvious for SKYTEAM. Sure COPA and TACA/ AV could be in Star but does Star really need 5 hubs from Peru to Guatemala, Lima, Bogota, Panama City, San Jose and Guatemala City are all too close.


User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12529 times:
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Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
FRA, MUC, (a bit of DUS), ZRH, (a bit of GVA), VIE, BRU, LHR (if u count bmi), CPH, ARN, LIS..... and that's only the ones i can remember now

Europe is much more densely populated then South America and most people there can afford a plane ticket, sadly in South America that is not the reality.

In South America if AV/ TACA and Copa are in Star then they control all teh hubs from Lima to Guatemala with the exception of Ecuador which could be AV controlled with Aero Gal, an AVaffiliate.

In Europe, sure Lufthansa has BRU, FRA, MUC ZRH and VIE with BMI at LHR but SKYteam and AMS and CDG. ONEworld has LHR, Madrid with Finnair in Helsinki. Europe has competing hubs the next country over, not teh same as northwest South America and Central America.

Your argument is essentially that the same airline should have a hubs in DFW and IAH or CDG & LHR, so me an antirust agency that would approve that ?


User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12509 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
Your argument is essentially that the same airline should have a hubs in DFW and IAH or CDG & LHR, so me an antirust agency that would approve that ?

No good reason for an antitrust regulator not to approve it under the principles of antitrust law and regulatory review.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently onlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12449 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
if think that's too many Star hubs

Well, with TAM Star gains three new hubs, GIG, GRU and BSB. GIG and GRU are former Star hubs that are returning.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
In Rio (GIG) they are looking into increase the size of the lounge, which is a very good measure considering TP, UA, US and in the near future CO/CM will join the Star terminal (T2)

Yes, the situation at GIG hasn't changed since Star carriers moved under one roof back in 2000 with VARIG. Back in those days, the terminal was dedicated to Star+TAM. It's ironic that now TAM is replacing VARIG and doesn't need to do anything at GIG. Not even CO has to move to T2. It will happen naturally with the UA-CO merger.

At GRU, the situation is different. There is no way to combine all Star carriers under one roof. VARIG never managed to do that. TAM won't be able to as well. Since the future T3 will be used only for international flight, it will get worse. Star carriers may end up all split through the three terminals.


User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):

The big queston is what happens at TACA/ AV & COPA, COPA is Star and AV/TACA seems going to Star too. Will COPA remain in Star if AV/ TACA joins that allaince ?

CM has not sought Star membership despite its relationship to CO. It will be interesting to see where CM will stand once the COUA merger has been approved.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 2):
a A320 with Star Alliance livery

What other planes are scheduled to get the Star livery?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinesflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11818 times:

...and if AV joins Star, then Brazil gets 2 Star airlines with TAM and Avianca Brazil. I wonder how JJ feels about that?

User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11752 times:

Quoting sflaflight (Reply 13):
then Brazil gets 2 Star airlines with TAM and Avianca Brazil

AV Brazil is a long way to become a competition to JJ. If AV/TA joins Star, their added value to the alliance will be in Central/South america, but not much in Brazil really.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11643 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
One thing Delta has is its ATL hub which is the next best hub for South America after Miami.

correct... which is why DL is the 2nd largest foreign airline in deep S. America behind American. In terms of connections in/out of S. America, DL has all of the key markets covered. There is some potential for additional service but Skyteam really is in pretty decent shape in deep S. America... esp. since KL/AF also have a decent presence in the region.

There is a significant amount of traffic that connects between the northern and southern tiers of Latin America over IAH, ATL, and MIA.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
Europe is much more densely populated then South America and most people there can afford a plane ticket, sadly in South America that is not the reality.

Which is also why having an alliance partner WITHIN Latin America is not as necessary as connecting the region to the rest of the world.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8568 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11127 times:
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Welcome about JJ ! So happy to see Brazils largest airline in *A . Does anyone know whether PZ also comes on board with their parent ?


Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
COPA is Star and AV/TACA seems going to Star too. Will COPA remain in Star
CM cannot remain in Star ... because to do that they would have to actually be in Star in the first place , and they are not .

A few months ago the CEO of CM in an interview with Flightglobal said that the choice for CM is between *A and remaining independent and that they expect the choice to be made around the middle of this year , so , in theory , we should not have much longer to wait to see what they are going to do . Having said that I am not sure that we will see CMs future finalised until AV/TA have announced their decision regarding alliance membership , a decision which , depending on which media reports you choose to believe , is due any time between two weeks ago and the end of 2010 .

[Edited 2010-05-13 12:06:30]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2352 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11127 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 12):

What other planes are scheduled to get the Star livery?

I'd have to think that at least a 77W (or two) would get the colors... Most alliance members seem to paint both regional as well as long haul aircraft in the alliance colors...



"Drunks run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently onlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10613 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Does anyone know whether PZ also comes on board with their parent ?

Yes, PZ is most certainly on board, since TAM pratically erased PZ's separate identity. There is almost no destinction between them anymore.


User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10497 times:
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Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Does anyone know whether PZ also comes on board with their parent ?

Yes, PZ is on board - the pic linked to this message shows one of PZ's planes carrying the Star Alliance logo

[Edited 2010-06-04 07:18:40 by EI787]

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2899 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10180 times:
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Whew!!! What a wait that was! Congrats to TAM and Star. A final tear for RG!


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently onlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9286 times:

Quoting Ota1 (Reply 19):
Yes, PZ is on board - the pic linked to this message shows one of PZ's planes carrying the Star Alliance logo

PZ no longer has any dedicated aircraft, nor is there any frame with Paraguayan registration. There are some JJ frames that bare the Paraguayan flag, but that's just to appease the Paraguayan flying public.


User currently onlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8900 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Does anyone know whether PZ also comes on board with their parent ?

The Star Alliance timetable has been updated and shows all PZ flights.

http://www.staralliance.com/assets/d...and-downloads/pdf/StarAlliance.pdf


User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8833 times:
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I thought there was a ceremony in Sao Paolo in the aft

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
One thing Delta has is its ATL hub which is the next best hub for South America after Miami. SKYTEAM in South America depends on AV and Star, first Aero Mexico is in Skyteam in one of Latin America largest markets. AM doesn't do much for Skyteam in Brazil, Chile or Argentina but there re options. GOL of Brazil would be great for the southern cone of South America, GOl flies to Buenos Aires, Montevideo and other main cities.

DL and GOL have already announced intentions to codeshare to many GOL destinations.


User currently onlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8758 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 23):
I thought there was a ceremony in Sao Paolo in the aft

Yes, there was one for the unveiling of PT-MBO with the Star livery. Tonight there is another one in Rio with a small concert of Ivete Sangalo.


25 Post contains links C010T3 : The concert is about to start. You can watch it online if you'd like: http://www.terra.com.br/show/[Edited 2010-05-13 19:35:13]
26 LipeGIG : I'll be returning from EZE to GIG this Saturday and i can check this issue as my flight is PZ703.
27 ETinCaribe : Congrats to TAM, a great addition to the *A family. So who is next on the list for joining Star, Air India?
28 LipeGIG : The Star CEO said today in Rio that they expect Olympic (Greece) to join *A later this year.
29 robffm2 : If TAM chooses the 777 only LHR and FRA will see it (not sure about SCL). Better take one of the A330. Or one of each.
30 LipeGIG : It's expected to be the A330 as both FRA and LHR will also be able to see it. GIG-FRA and GIG-LHR will both be operated by A332. Only MXP (where they
31 Post contains links and images robffm2 : some pics i've found: http://www.panrotas.com.br/album-de-...da-tam-na-star-alliance_57899.html http://www.panrotas.com.br/album-de-...a-tam-na-star-a
32 Wroord : I know Star was missing an airline in South America after Varig went belly up, but what's the sense of those alliances if they include so many airline
33 kiwiandrew : What is the sense ? The sense is in providing coverage . If Alliance "A" does not serve a particular area/destination and Alliances "B" and "C" do th
34 VC10er : Now that I saw TAM's first StarAlliance livery, I wish it was their permanent livery!
35 Mozart : Excellent news! Welcome TAM! I've been following their history since a long time and I am mightily impressed with how they have developed. Surely ever
36 LipeGIG : Trip is not a subsidiary of TAM but they do offer code-share to TAM in order to reach other markets. Their routes become integrated on Star Alliance
37 MorcegoA330 : Could you provide me some examples of such communities? Thanks.
38 Post contains links C010T3 : AFAIK they're not Star flights. JJ flight codes always styled like JJ3XXX for domestic or JJ80XX for international. All other combinations are codesh
39 2travel2know2 : Nice t to see a G3 plane on a JJ topic. Rumor is that when CM started to fly to GRU, JJ showed no interest to code-share GRU-GIG with them so CM turn
40 C010T3 : I couldn't find any JJ plane in that position. I think that JJ-CM did not make any sense in the past, since CM captures US-Brazil traffic and thus wa
41 Post contains images MorcegoA330 : Thanks - I knew the answer. I just wanted Mozart to reply as he called such places "communities in the Amazon jungle..." It's a bit dramatic.
42 Post contains images Mozart : Sorry for the drama, not intended. Just poor command of the English language (which is not my native language). But then, from where I am (bottom of
43 Talaier : Is there actually anything left of OA's international network? Last summer I flew them direct from MAD and they had leased the operation to another c
44 Post contains links robffm2 : Nice video about their entry into *A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx3VINMX0dI Make sure also to check out their videos about Tam Vintage!
45 LipeGIG : Probably, and they will be the main Greek carrier. Aegean was just ellected one of the top three airlines of it's entire region, just behind Turkish
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