Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AF/KLM "most Likely" To Split W/b Order  
User currently offlinen1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 20228 times:

Another 787/a350 combo?

The first leased (interesting to see KLM had already lined up planes) "The order will most likely be a mix of the two aircraft [the 787 and A350],"

- first deliveries to be leased
- KLM had lined up some of RBSs 787s
- Deliveries starting in 2014

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-for-100-787sa350s-is-hanging.html

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 20091 times:

See, for a moment I thought it said: 'AF/KLM ''most Likely'' To Split'.  


seemyseems
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19850 times:

This is not just ''friendly politics'' but quite logic.

The A350 would probably be to big to replace KL's 747's(combi's), but would be a good MD-11 or even 777 replacement.

Could see KL ending up with a 30+ order in first place (to replace the MD's and 747's) and eventually, but still many years away, 30 more for the 777/A330/747 full pax.

[Edited 2010-05-19 13:50:46]

[Edited 2010-05-19 13:51:22]

User currently offlinetimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19806 times:

I would be surprised if any major European airlines (BA/IB,AF/KL and LH group) did not order both the A350 and 787 tbh. They both fill separate niches very well indeed.

User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19750 times:

I see a mix of 788/789 to replace the A343 and later A332, and A359s to replace the 77E/MD11. Possibly some 3510 to replace 747 and eventually 77W. That will be a ways off for the 77W replacement I would think. The 744s are needing replacement much sooner. I guess AF/KL are ok without the GE on the A350.


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19672 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
The A350 would probably be to big to replace KL's 747's(combi's), but would be a good MD-11 or even 777 replacement.

I think a 787-8 would work to replace the passenger capacity of KL's 747-400Ms. The 787-8 would also handle AF's A330-200 replacements with the 787-9 covering the A340-300.

The A350-900 would be a solid 777-200ER replacement for both AF and KL and as an MD-11 replacement at KL.

That pretty much just leaves the 777-300ER replacement, but they are all new enough that AF and KL can wait to see how the A350-1000 and "777NG" work out and then decide which to go. They might even choose both - A350-1000 for AF's three class 77Ws and the 77NG for their and KL's two-class birds (where payload lift might be a factor).

I believe the 744 replacement is already in place: A388s and 77Ws at AF and 77Ws at KL.

[Edited 2010-05-19 14:01:55]

User currently offlineChrisCruise From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19605 times:

I'm kind of surprised! I know at least KL bought their airplanes in times of economic downturn to profit from higher discounts, but ordering planes that have not proven themselves in operation with other airlines is something that KL hasn't done for a long time


Ordering the 787 or A350 is a change of purchasing strategy. KL did not order any airplanes before they came into service with other airlines and proved their specifications. Ordering the 787/A350 would mean a break with this strategy.

Due to the economic downturn and the expected recovery of the airline industry they can buy/lease them cheap and are anticipating on price increases when demand increases. This would also fit within their anti-cyclic purchase strategy.

The current long-haul fleet with both AF as well as KL is a mix of Airbus and Boeing (MD) aircraft and the mix of A350/787 would certainly fit within their fleet.

Interesting developments here!!

[Edited 2010-05-19 14:09:18]


Flown:319, 320, 321, 343, 388, 733, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 77W, CR7, CR9, DC9-31, E70, E90, F70, F100, MD11
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19578 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
The A350-900 would be a solid 777-200ER replacement for both AF and KL and as an MD-11 replacement at KL.

Actually the 900's would be an overkill for KL's MD-11s i think. The A350-900's covers 300+ seats in 3 classes, whilst KLM only has 294 somewhat seats in 2-classes on the MD-11. the A350-800 could carry 2-class: 276-312 pax, so that would probably fit better. Besides, the MD-11 fly's routes that are hardly often filled.
But ofcourse, maybe AF/KL has different plans for the future, so we can only sit and watch what will happen, but i think the first order will be mainly for the 787, and later on for the A350.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19577 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ChrisCruise (Reply 6):
I'm kind of surprised! I know at least KL bought their airplanes in times of economic downturn to profit from higher discounts, but ordering planes that have not proven themselves in operation with other airlines is something that KL hasn't done for a long time

That might explain why KL planned to lease the 787-8 before RBS's cancellation of their 25 frames killed the deal.

KL's CEO did say they would probably start with leases, so I guess we need to see which 787 and A350 lessors have frames available.


User currently offlinetistpaa727 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 327 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19578 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So much for the "all GE" argument unless GE is onboard with the 350 program....   

This completely makes sense as many airlines are finding out. What interested me the most out of the story was the bit about KLM had already lined up 787s. Was I in a black hole when this was made public or is this the first we are hearing of this?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
That pretty much just leaves the 777-300ER replacement, but they are all new enough that AF and KL can wait to see how the A350-1000 and "777NG" work out and then decide which to go.

   Agreed. I think it is safe to say it will be the A359 ordered as the -10 / 777NG battle is a couple of years off given how new the 77W are.

Glad to hear some new news on the AF/KL deal and this time from a reliable source. 



Don't sweat the little things.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10709 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19535 times:

This must be the AF/KLM 772ER and KLM MD11 replacement in the first place. 744s are being replaced by a mix of A380 and 77W for the foreseeable future.

User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19489 times:

Quoting seemyseems (Reply 1):
See, for a moment I thought it said: 'AF/KLM ''most Likely'' To Split'.  

That was my first reaction too  
Back OT, a split order made sense to from the first time this RFP came up. AF's A340's and KL's MD11's need to be replaced within 5 years, too many planes in too short a timeframe to replace with just one type. For AF's A340's and 772's replacement the A350-900 makes the best sense, for KL 777-300ER's (to replace full-pax 747's) and 787-9 (to replace 747 combis and MD11's) makes sense. Interestingly, the article says KL already had secured 787 delivery positions through leases from RBS, before that bank pulled out of the leasing market...

AF/KL's A330 fleet and KL's 772's won't need to be replaced this decade.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19438 times:

Quoting na (Reply 10):

Nonono, the 777s are the backbone of KL's fleet, and they are very happy with them. They won't replace them, as mentioned, before both planes have proved them selves for a while. The 747's and MD-11's are a different kind of case, as they NEED to be replaced, since both planes are reaching theire 25th life year soon, and just don't fit theire strategy for the upcomming future!


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10709 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19292 times:

[quote=MauriceB,reply=12]

As much as I understand this is about deliveries reaching into the "far" future. I dont see why KLM wouldnt replace its relatively 777s between 2015 and 2020 if much more economical types of the same size are coming online.
As for the 744s, KLM took delivery of them from 1989 to 2002, a wide timespan. The oldest 10 or so surely will have to be replaced over the next 5 years, but the younger ones should be good enough to serve another decade for KLM.
The MD-11s are a different case, they´re aging and KLM is the very last reputable airline still flying them. Plus their size is ideal to be replaced by 787s and A350s.


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19193 times:

Quoting na (Reply 13):
As much as I understand this is about deliveries reaching into the "far" future. I dont see why KLM wouldnt replace its relatively 777s between 2015 and 2020 if much more economical types of the same size are coming online.
As for the 744s, KLM took delivery of them from 1989 to 2002, a wide timespan. The oldest 10 or so surely will have to be replaced over the next 5 years, but the younger ones should be good enough to serve another decade for KLM.
The MD-11s are a different case, they´re aging and KLM is the very last reputable airline still flying them. Plus their size is ideal to be replaced by 787s and A350s.

Most MD-11's are younger than the half of the 747 fleet (delivered from 1994 to 1998).. Besides one of the big issues on the 747 combi fleet is that they don't fit the future strategy plans anymore. The 777 does fit, and as mentioned, KLM isn't that kean on replacing planes as long as they do theire job well. And don't forget that training all the 777 staff to A350/787 will cost alot of money, so i could mention that KL will wait for boeing to decide to go on with 777NG or not.

KL just only replaces planes when theire is a big difference between the new planes and the old ones, or when they do bring very big economical + sides to it.

My point is just that the 777 won't see replacement for atleast 10/12 years.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19081 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

KL still has 77Ws due for delivery, so they could add more, if necessary, to replace the 747-400s.

I wonder if AF might be interested in the 747-400Ms being converted to 747-400BCFs for their cargo division. AF Cargo have complained that they can't interline their 777 pallets with their 747s because of contouring and they don't like being forced to use lighter pallets at the front of the 777 to protect the cockpit.

[Edited 2010-05-19 15:00:54]

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4723 posts, RR: 39
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19052 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ChrisCruise (Reply 6):
The current long-haul fleet with both AF as well as KL is a mix of Airbus and Boeing (MD) aircraft and the mix of A350/787 would certainly fit within their fleet.

Interesting developments here!!


Interesting indeed and according to the line of what I still expect them to do. Ordering both types.  .

Quoting tistpaa727 (Reply 9):
So much for the "all GE" argument unless GE is onboard with the 350 program....


That seems not to be the biggest issue now, but first they need to finalize the orders. Then we will know for sure.  .

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 11):
Back OT, a split order made sense to from the first time this RFP came up


It made sense to me from the start as well but I was not (and maybe still am) not sure if the RR-engine would be a serious obstacle for the A350-XWB to enter AF/KLM's fleet. Apparently it is not.  


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7572 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19055 times:

Quoting na (Reply 10):
This must be the AF/KLM 772ER and KLM MD11 replacement in the first place. 744s are being replaced by a mix of A380 and 77W for the foreseeable future.

The article mentions the 787s and A350XWBs would replace AF's A340s and the oldest 744s, and KL's MD-11s. No talk about the 77Es.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 18823 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

KL's oldest 77E is only eight years old, with AF's between 8 and 12, so I could see them holding on to them for awhile longer.

77Ws make the most obvious 744 replacement since AF and KL operate the type. The 787-9 and A350-800 could both replace the MD-11 and A340-300, though the 787-9 would offer more cargo hold volume than the M11/A343 and the A350-800 less than the M11/A343, so that might play a role...

So perhaps 787-9s to start (A343/MD-11) with A350-900s around the turn of the decade (77E) along with 787-8s (A332)?

[Edited 2010-05-19 15:05:27]

User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 18715 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
77Ws make the most obvious 744 replacement since AF and KL operate the type. The 787-9 and A350-800 could both replace the MD-11 and A340-300, though the 787-9 would offer more cargo hold volume than the M11/A343 and the A350-800 less than the M11/A343, so that might play a role...

So perhaps 787-9s to start (A343/MD-11) with A350-900s around the turn of the decade (77E) along with 787-8s (A332)?

That's what i was thinking. Keep in mind that the cargo ops. are very important for KL, so that's why, in combination with the seating capicity, the 787-8/9 might be the perfect replacement for KL's 747 combi fleet. KL stated a while ago that the 747 Full pax where theire to stay for another while, but i could imagine that the 4 777W's still on order could eventually replace the 747's, even if they are already delivered, due to all the economic disaster going around.


User currently offlineairbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 18615 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
I wonder if AF might be interested in the 747-400Ms being converted to 747-400BCFs for their cargo division.

Won't happen, the new strategy is to concentrate freight on belly space, supplemented by a total of 14 Full Freighters over the entire AFKL fleet.

rgds

AB



FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 18412 times:

Would Air France order the A350?

At the present moment its only offered with RR engines would AF take the plunge and take take an aircraft without GE or Snecma/GE participation i.e CFM?


I know AF had Caravelles, but were they the later models offered with P&W power?
They had the concorde with joint Snecma/RR powerplants, Also some original Comets with RR power and not forgetting Vickers Viscount propliners.

I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the F28's and F100's were operated by other airlines under Air France Reginal banners, so do not count.



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 18412 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting airbuster (Reply 20):
Won't happen, the new strategy is to concentrate freight on belly space, supplemented by a total of 14 Full Freighters over the entire AFKL fleet.

Got it. So that certainly favors the 787-9 and A350-900 over the A350-800.


User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1137 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 16406 times:

Would be nice if either ordered the 748i...both AF/KL could fill them up wether passenger or cargo versions. Long live the B747!!!  

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 16231 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 21):
Would Air France order the A350?

I believe they would, as a 777-200ER replacement towards the latter half of this decade and into the early half of the next and then perhaps as a 777-300ER replacement in the latter half of the next decade, depending on what Boeing does.

In the near-term, I'm thinking 787-9s as an A340-300 replacement.

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 23):
Would be nice if either ordered the 748i...

Definitely do not see AF doing so - the A380-800 and 777-300ER have them covered.

And I am inclined to think that KL will not go with anything larger than the 777-300ER.

[Edited 2010-05-19 20:11:38]

25 behramjee : The ideal replacement aircraft for KL and AF's aging fleet is as follows: Air France ----- A 343s to be replaced by A 358. Reason being is that AF's A
26 airproxx : Some 77W are just a few weeks old @ both AF & KL, so seeing a replacement for them with deliveries scheduled in 2014 is a bit too much anticipatin
27 CFBFrame : If my memory serves me, was not KLM one of the first to fly the 747-400? I thought they and NW were the first operators and one of their first a/c wa
28 DocLightning : It's true. The 787 is a 767/330 replacement and the 350 is a 777 replacement. They aren't identical replacements, but close enough for the airlines.
29 ChrisCruise : You are absolutely right! But that is more than 20 years ago. Since then KL is much more conservative in being launch customer or even ordering plane
30 Post contains links and images keesje : KLM/AF has been looking at the A350/787 for a long time and even said they would order both. Cargo and range is important. IMO the slightly larger A35
31 na : KLMs future fleet will be damn boring without the 747.
32 Kappel : KL usually does wait, but AF does have a tendency to order quickly, like the 77W and 777F. And as mentioned in a later post, KL was an early 744 cust
33 Burkhard : Any airline without a big quad will be boring, second tier and vanish as a recognized identity over long.
34 MauriceB : How come everyone say's that the A350-900 would be a perfect MD-11 replacement? Imo, the 900's can carry up to what? 340/350 pax in KL's 2 class conf
35 keesje : Traditionaly the MD11 flew on high density routes and KLM loves its cargo carrying capabilities. Canada, Caribien, I wonder if even a A359 can fully
36 Kappel : The a359 is slightly longer (about 2 metres) than the 772. So the seating would be more in line with that (about 310-320) of course depending on how
37 MauriceB : They did, back in the good old day's the MD's where the work horsses of the caribean routes. AUA, BON (2x daily) and seasonable CUR. Now they really
38 747classic : I.M.O. a few underlying problems cause problems in the decision making within AF/KL and the long delay in ordering wide body replacement aircraft. - A
39 MauriceB : No way, even if its being developed, it would be, because of the current regulations, probably waaay to heavy to operate it on a good, profitable bas
40 747classic : Source ? I disagree in this respect, a fixed partition wall can be made fire resistant and light with the current material knowledge. Configuration c
41 MauriceB : Well if i wan't i have good sources (i was raised in a KL family), but that's not why i'm saying it. Sure, the FAA doesn't forbidden it, but still it
42 Stitch : A 787-9 offers more cabin floor space and cargo hold volume than an A340-300, while the A350-800 offers less of both. Boeing's 787-9 seat map also sh
43 behramjee : Isnt Boeing's configuration for aircraft give a measurement of its capacity according to F class having a 62 inch pitch, J class 42 inch pitch and Y
44 JRadier : To add, KLM used to have 14-pallet 747 combi's (up to the wing door) but has operated the 7-pallet version for at least the last 10 years.
45 747classic : The above mentioned 12/13 pallet maindeck Combi was only possible with the 747-200/300, before additional maindeck fire suppression regulations were
46 CFBFrame : Doesn't the article make that point when the writer says KLM had planned to lease 787s through the bank? From my read, KLM wants "firm" delivery comm
47 airproxx : Really?? Say that to LH, and see what they think about it! Totally agree, and further there is actually a niche @ AF to fill the gap in capacities be
48 A388 : Wow, how are you doing MauriceB. Your last post was in 2006 as far as I could see. Where have you been!!! Welcome back my friend. Well, the 763 wasn'
49 columba : I think there is a typo, as it says the aircraft will be needed " to replace A340s and the oldest 747s at Air France and MD-11s at KLM", I believe the
50 Kappel : As far as I understood this issue is that they liked the cargo capacity of the a310, but the range was not sufficient (only enough for Mediterranian
51 airproxx : About KLM... Ok, maybe.. But AF has a need in VLA, and most of all, a need for an adaptive fleet... And I know it's been in talks with Boeing.. Let's
52 CFBFrame : I have wanted to ask this for some time, but my concern about A versus B has forced a holdback. In the case of AF (and potentially KLM) and the lost A
53 EA772LR : AF has addressed their VLA needs. They have the A380. I would be shocked if AF ordered 748I as well. With plenty of 77Ws and now introducing A380s, I
54 Post contains images MauriceB : True, and KL needed an aircraft for that segment because other planes where simply to big or didnt satisfy in cargo/range opss. The A330 does meet th
55 Post contains images A388 : I can imagine that and rightfully so. Always enjoy life while you can!!! Nice to have you back here though A388
56 A342 : I don't believe that two separate aircraft are needed to replace the A343/MD-11 and the 772ER. In this case, my bet is on the 789, which should also t
57 Post contains images EA772LR : This actually seems very plausible to me as well.
58 Stitch : I think the 787-9 would work as an AF 777-200ER replacement, since AF does fly those in four classes and maybe they could reduce Affaires a bit if th
59 A342 : I'm not up to date on the following issue, but: has AF begun converting their 772ERs to 10-abreast in Y? If not, the 789 at 9-abreast should be big e
60 Post contains images behramjee : Thank you for pointing this out...I did too my own research and what you have mentioned is 100% correct
61 Stitch : SeatGuru's maps imply they are still at 9-abreast. The 777-200ER cabin appears to be 49m long while the 787-9 is 48m (the A350-900 looks to be 52m),
62 astuteman : Nit-picking perhaps, but both the 787-8 and 787-9 are sized a fraction smaller than their A330 (and thus A340) counterparts.... I make the 787-9 to b
63 Post contains images JRadier : Welcome! I'm almost on my way out of there
64 AF Cabin Crew : Here is the updated list of the aircraft that went thru the retrofit of Premium Voyageur and 777s that now have 10 abreast cabins in Voyageur. 777-20
65 MauriceB : I had no idea AF was only fitting in 208 pax on theire A330's, compared to the 2-class KL's which have like 252? Why is theire so much difference bet
66 Post contains links Kappel : It seems AF/KL is also in the market for additional leased 777's or narrowbodies: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ning-up-deals-with-udvar-hazy
67 A342 : Thank you. So I take it the A332 and A343 are receiving 9-abreast in Y, as was previously reported?
68 Stitch : Yeah, they're effectively identical, which still makes it a direct replacement and it offers four more LD3 positions so depending on your cargo densi
69 Post contains images astuteman : Can't argue with that Rgds
70 ZRH : That's absolutely horrible what these airlines do. I always check the seating before I fly. I would never ever book a long-haul flight with a 10 abre
71 FlySSC : No. The A332/A343 will remain in a 2x4x2 config in Y.
72 EA772LR : I agree completely. It's not about service, but about making money. You either have to be uber-rich and fly J/F, or be stuck in a sardine can. That's
73 AF Cabin Crew : I never said the 332/343 were going to get a 9 abreast config in Y, they are getting a 2x3x2 config in Premium Voyageur Read above. Thanks FlySSC !
74 MauriceB : Mmm, wouldn't be suprised if KL will take some extra 777w's (4 or 5) for the 747 replacement, and probably up to 15+ 737NG's for the replacing the la
75 Stitch : While I have held the opinion of a 787-9 order for KL/AF, it should be noted that RBS' 25 frames were all 787-8s and that they were ordered in one set
76 MauriceB : Not that i wan't to prove my point, but this is what i thought, although 23 seems a bit short for replacing 10 MD-11's and 19 747's, , the MD's aren'
77 vin2basketball : Hey Behramjee, I read your blog. Why'd you stop writing it? Anyway... Here's how AF/KL should approach long haul in future.... 788- like you said 332
78 Post contains images EPA001 : You mean "could" approach long haul in the future. I expect them to order the A350 as well, as they have indicated themselves. I do think though that
79 MauriceB : Think the 7772's at KL's fleet won't leave for another 10/12 years, since they are relative young and the pilots can also fly the 77W+ Mx is 98% the
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AF/KLM Enters Bid To Buy LOT posted Wed Jan 20 2010 01:45:37 by Konrad
US Most Likely To Implement $15 First Bag. posted Thu Jun 12 2008 07:23:16 by AA767400
AF/KLM In Talks To Buy VLM - Telegraaf Reports posted Tue Jun 19 2007 11:13:07 by Pilot21
Aeroflot Still Intends To Split Order posted Thu Nov 9 2006 19:59:57 by ATCGOD
FR Destinations Most Likely To Re-appear? posted Fri Feb 25 2005 12:11:57 by Richardw
Which Manufacturer You Most Likely To See At LHR? posted Wed Aug 11 2004 21:17:07 by EZYAirbus
Which Low-fare Airline Is Most Likely To Succeed? posted Sat Aug 16 2003 16:38:42 by Tommy767
US Major Most Likely To Go Bankrupt? posted Sun Jan 20 2002 23:31:56 by Donder10
AF-KLM To Place A350/B787 Order Worth $20 Billion? posted Wed Mar 11 2009 13:13:46 by CityhopperNL
AF+KLM To Order 20 E-JETS + 18 Options posted Fri Aug 3 2007 18:16:17 by Dellatorre