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BA Strike Update  
User currently offlineastockla From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18249 times:

BBC reporting that Unite have, unfortunately in my opinion, won their appeal to overturn the injunction...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10130274.stm

I suppose that theoretically the strike originally planned for this week could start tomorrow.


above us is only sky
229 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18233 times:

Yep....more misery for passenger. another own goal IMHO for the Union. This is crazy

http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLAL00447120100520?rpc=44

I cannot see WW backing down so this is just going to drag on and on!


User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18210 times:

Great, here we go again.

Thanks to the best union in the world  

All I can say is Im glad BA are prepared already for the strike, and passengers are more then aware of what's going on with regards to flights.

Lets see what happens over the next few days.

[Edited 2010-05-20 03:26:53]

User currently offlineClubWorld1986 From United Kingdom, joined May 2009, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18086 times:

Is that it?

Can BA attempt to overturn the overturn? lol.

Seriously, there must have been enough evidence in the first place for an injunction to be granted. Is that errelevant now?


User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17875 times:

Unite could have called a immediate strike from the time the judgement was overturned. They haven't done this but have re instated all strike dates with effect from Monday

This could all be over in minutes if WW backs down and gives back full staff travel privillages to those who striked.

We have had over the last few years wildcat strikes by ground staff and they never had there staff travel suspended. I am sure the 15 days of strikes will cost a lot of money, moey that could be saved by just giving back a privilage that in the end makes money for the company

UNITE would have recommended BA's offer to it's members if he had just reinstated the staff travel concessions and stopped the pointless investigation of 50+ crew

BA is expected to annouce it's biggest ever loss tomorrow.

I am sure the shareholders would be happy for the staff travel privillages to be restored If it meant a end to what looks like to be a summer of uncertainty. The sooner this is resolved the sooner BA will return to profit.


User currently offlineFlyingfox27 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17852 times:

So what would happen if BA gave in, would they lose more money in the long run and happier passengers or if they held on, would they lose money but not as much as giving in?

Just a little thought i had. Hope they can sort this out soon.


User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17814 times:

I completely understand the need for the union to hold the strike and I completely understand BA's need to avert it. The bit of the story I am missing the bit where the union are seen assisting BA make the necessary cost cuts.

We all know BA is having money problems but have the executive of the airline taken appropriate pay cuts? Every little helps.


User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17702 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 4):
This could all be over in minutes if WW backs down and gives back full staff travel privillages to those who striked.

Crew who went on strike were told they would never get it back, WW has backed down and given it back, with limitations. A good compromise I think!!


User currently offlinerobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17653 times:

WW should back down right away. Any unfair and discriminating crew treatment will be overturned by european courts in the long run anyway.

User currently offlineWoof From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17603 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 4):
This could all be over in minutes if WW backs down and gives back full staff travel privillages to those who striked.

Ah, so that's how a Union works? BA should always give in to whatever a Union asks for because it would be cheaper for them not to? I think not.

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 8):
Any unfair and discriminating crew treatment will be overturned by european courts in the long run anyway.

What unfair and discriminating crew treatment are you refering to?


User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17611 times:

BA have published there strike timetable through until 29th May.

Flights between 26th May - 10th June removed from general sale.

Flights between 26th-29th May will be issued for sale in a day or two once pax booked on canx flights on those dates have had a chance to rebook. Flights after 30th May will be released as and when the schedule has been confirmed

Since 18th May BA have been leasing of a number of aircraft and there crew to help cover it's operation. The leases have been extended today to run though to 23:59 on 29th May. All leased aircraft will operate on BA's routes ex LHR Terminal 3 only.

Titan Airways

737-300 - LHR/AGP/LHR/AGP/LHR (18th May to 23rd May)
757-200 - LHR/AGP/LHR/AGP/LHR (24th May to 29th May)
767-300 - LHR/BCN/LHR/BCN/LHR

Astraeus

757-200 - LHR/VIE/LHR/BCN/LHR
757-200 - LHR/BCN/LHR/MAD/LHR

Air Finland

757-200 LHR/HEL/LIS/LHR/HEL

EuroAtlantic Airways

767-300 - LHR/MAD/LHR/AGP/LHR
757-200 - LIS/LHR/HEL/LHR/LIS (ops as 767 24th/25th)
757-200 - LHR/MAD/LHR/LIS/LHR


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17563 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 4):
This could all be over in minutes if WW backs down and gives back full staff travel privillages to those who striked.

I'm glad BA haven't backed down.....militant unions need to be given a lesson.

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 8):
WW should back down right away. Any unfair and discriminating crew treatment will be overturned by european courts in the long run anyway.

"Discrimination" on what basis?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17536 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
I'm glad BA haven't backed down.....militant unions need to be given a lesson.

BA should continue and not back down. Anyway, the Cabin Crew who are strinking will be hurt first with less revenues.

I heard that Willie Walsh was thinking of hiring new Cabin Crew asap to be part of the new fleet. These can then be used as strike breakers which would allow BA to operate 100% of schedules during the strike. After the mess is finished, BA can sack all the strikers.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5316 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17501 times:

Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 5):
So what would happen if BA gave in,

A small group of militant BASSA crews would run the company.

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 8):
WW should back down right away. Any unfair and discriminating crew treatment will be overturned by european courts in the long run anyway.

How is he discriminating?

What is the strike about now anyways? Unite have been on telly saying it is now only about the dismissal of 50 staff and loss of staff travel for strikers.... NOT ABOUT PAY AND CONDITIONS - as they have agreed that. Agreed a deal that is actually worse than before thev last strikes... madness.


User currently offlineFlyingfox27 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17503 times:

The scary thing i just thought about is, if UNITE continue to not get their way, then they will tell members to get "sloppy" on their work and this can lead to bad service or even safety fears. This might not happen but it happens with other companies who strike and dont get their way.

I really hope they sort something out soon, would be nice to fly to AMS for the day and use BA as they have easier times than U2 or Flybe.


User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17472 times:

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 7):
Crew who went on strike were told they would never get it back, WW has backed down and given it back, with limitations. A good compromise I think!!
Quoting LHR380 (Reply 7):
WW should back down right away. Any unfair and discriminating crew treatment will be overturned by european courts in the long run anyway.

UNITE's law team last night sent a letter on behalf of BASSA's members to complain about the removal of the staff travel privillages. In the letter UNITE has pointed out that " this disciplinary sanction was imposed in flagrant disregard for the company’s own internal disciplinary procedure EG901".

The letter goes on to point out "that by ignoring the procedure staff were denied the opportunity to establish the facts, to state their case and challenge BA’s action. Furthermore withdrawing staff travel concessions as a sanction against exercising a right to strike is potentially a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Quoting Woof (Reply 9):
What unfair and discriminating crew treatment are you refering to?

Under Bob Ayling (1998-2000 ish) and as part of the utopia project BA went through a period of crew recruitment where the concentrated on recruiting crew from other EU countries. BA recruited a large number of crew from Spain and France inparticular. They offered them the opportunity to continue living in there home country and commute to London using there concessionary travel.

Over the last few years BA's ground staff have held unofficial walk outs at LHR and there flight crew, during the set up of Openskies almost came to strike action. On none of those occassions did WW remove or threaten to remove there staff travel. WW knows that a large number of BA's crew reply on this privillage to get to work. He threatend it's removal because he thought the possible loss of rebate travel for commuting crew would be enough to make them cross the picket line.


User currently offlineevomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 512 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17417 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 12):
After the mess is finished, BA can sack all the strikers.

Get a clue.

Workers cannot be sacked for engaging in lawful industrial action, and they cannot be made redundant unless their position ceases to exist. The hiring of new cabin crew on new terms would rather invalidate the claim that the positions no longer exist.

The employment tribunals would have an absolute field day.


User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17384 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 12):
I heard that Willie Walsh was thinking of hiring new Cabin Crew asap to be part of the new fleet. These can then be used as strike breakers which would allow BA to operate 100% of schedules during the strike. After the mess is finished, BA can sack all the strikers.

BA offered severence just under a year ago and by law once this has been offered BA cannot employ someone to fill those positions until a year has past. If BA made crew redundant he would be unable to recruit for a minimum of 1 year. This is a limitation BA doesn't want.

I have friends who are on the single fleet at LGW. There contract is actually better than the one being offered on the new LHR fleet. They do a lot of long multi sector days, longhaul trips with sometimes 1 day off and multiple 6 hour airport standby and home standby's every month. They are payed just over £10,000 a year basic plus they recieve a night stop allowance of £10 per night and £2.40 a hour flight pay which they don't recieve when on standby.

There monthly take home is so low that they qualify for working tax credits and quite a few have a second job to help them get through each month.

In the first 12-18 months of the fleet being set up at LGW BA had to recruit 20-30 new crew every month just to keep up with the number resigning.

Quoting ANstar (Reply 13):
Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 5):
So what would happen if BA gave in,

A small group of militant BASSA crews would run the company.

WW could make this work in his favour.

The validaty of the strike vote runs out in June. BASSA will re ballot it's members again in June and if it is a yes strikes could be held over BA's busiest weeks of the year in late July/mid Auguest.

If WW backed down he could get BA's press office to spin the story to sound like he is the one person who has saved BA's customers summer.


User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17327 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 10):
Titan Airways

737-300 - LHR/AGP/LHR/AGP/LHR (18th May to 23rd May)
757-200 - LHR/AGP/LHR/AGP/LHR (24th May to 29th May)
767-300 - LHR/BCN/LHR/BCN/LHR

Astraeus

757-200 - LHR/VIE/LHR/BCN/LHR
757-200 - LHR/BCN/LHR/MAD/LHR

Air Finland

757-200 LHR/HEL/LIS/LHR/HEL

EuroAtlantic Airways

767-300 - LHR/MAD/LHR/AGP/LHR
757-200 - LIS/LHR/HEL/LHR/LIS (ops as 767 24th/25th)
757-200 - LHR/MAD/LHR/LIS/LHR

Still cannot help but think that BA leasing in aircraft to operate flights to MAD and HEL is a waste of money.

AY operate at least 4 x daily to HEL
IB operate at least 8 x daily ex LHR and BACF operate up to 2 x daily from LCY to MAD

I am sure there is enough seats on those flights to reroute pax.

Also the aircraft they have leased have much more seats than BA would normailly offer.

BA are operating with the following number of seats on each flight

From LHR- MAD

BA456 - ops by MMZ 752 - 188 seat
BA458 - Ops by MMZ 763 - 300 seats
BA460 - ops by AEU 752 - 169 seats

LHR-HEL

BA794 - ops by MMZ 752 - 219 seats
BA798 - ops by OF 752 - 219 seats

Sure they could save money by cancelling these flights


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17260 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 15):
Quoting LHR380 (Reply 7):
Crew who went on strike were told they would never get it back, WW has backed down and given it back, with limitations. A good compromise I think!!
Quoting LHR380 (Reply 7):
WW should back down right away. Any unfair and discriminating crew treatment will be overturned by european courts in the long run anyway.

UNITE's law team last night sent a letter on behalf of BASSA's members to complain about the removal of the staff travel privillages. In the letter UNITE has pointed out that " this disciplinary sanction was imposed in flagrant disregard for the company’s own internal disciplinary procedure EG901".

The letter goes on to point out "that by ignoring the procedure staff were denied the opportunity to establish the facts, to state their case and challenge BA’s action. Furthermore withdrawing staff travel concessions as a sanction against exercising a right to strike is potentially a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights.

They can take it to court..if the court feels BA violated some rights then those privileges could be reinstated...BA warned the strikers in advance....its a privilege..not a right......(from what I've been able to gather)...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDanTaylor2006 From UK - England, joined Feb 2006, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17245 times:

I never actually thought the threat of strikes would influence me (mainly because I can't afford to fly here, there and everywhere)... but finally, it has. I have a 3rd year field trip to Athens coming up in November, and whilst I can't possibly predict what will happen in November, the threat of strikes now has assured LX have got my business over BA for the flights to Athens.

Initially, I wanted to fly BA because I know the product and they were the cheapest option to and from Athens... however, with this constant threat of strikes which will last God knows how long, I can't risk anything. On the upside, LX fly from my local airport unlike BA so it's win win for me.

When will Unite realise what they're doing to the airline?



Flown: A319-21, A346, A380, B733-4, B738, B744, B752, B762-4, B77W, CR2, CR9, DH4, E190-95, F70-100, MD-11, MD-88, MD-90
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17230 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 15):
UNITE's law team last night sent a letter on behalf of BASSA's members to complain about the removal of the staff travel privillages. In the letter UNITE has pointed out that " this disciplinary sanction was imposed in flagrant disregard for the company’s own internal disciplinary procedure EG901".

It was discretionally awarded benefit by the company and the company had the right to remove it without any disciplinary procedure. UNITE was warned that it would be removed in case of strikes so the crews can only tank UNITE for loosing that benefit.

[Edited 2010-05-20 07:35:40]

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17216 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 18):
Sure they could save money by cancelling these flights

That's what I was thinking. They could have used the aircraft at T5 or to add some flights to VIE & GIB



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlinegabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 3360 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 17167 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 18):
LHR-HEL

BA798 - ops by OF 752 - 219 seats

I seem to be booked on this flight next Saturday. I tried to change (via Expedia) to an earlier AY flight, but despite there being seat available in the same bucket, I was told that I could only be put on the waitlist, which they weren't authorised to do, so am stuck with the original one. Since then, the flight has changed to an Air Finland B757 - is this better than BA 320? With a lot more seats, it's going to be pretty empty - it's currently showing:
LHR HEL 1820 2310 @BA 798 J0 C0 DC RC IC Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 VC NC QC OC SC G0
Looks like it'll be just economy, with plenty of seats till for sale. On BA.com it says the normal service will go ahead - will the bar service (or more importantly the G&Ts) still be free (flowing)?

Thanks



http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights:LCY-ARN-AMS-LGW,STN-OTP-AMS-YUL,YQB-JFK-LAX-DUS-STN,LGW-DXB-BKK-HKG-
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 17170 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 18):
Still cannot help but think that BA leasing in aircraft to operate flights to MAD and HEL is a waste of money.

Not at all!

Its getting BA passengers out. IB and AY are busier enough on their own services on certain days, let alone having a few couple of planes worth of BA passengers in the mix.


25 vv701 : The circumstances are entirely different. If there was a wildcat strike it is clear that it would have been impossible for BA management to have told
26 evomutant : All true. But it does lead to the farcical situation whereby illegal strikers (the wildcatters), who did not go through the legal process of industri
27 AirNZ : Yes, and as I've been repeatedly saying it takes both sides of any dispute to cause industrial action. Both sides are at fault in this but it also mu
28 LHR380 : How do you work that out??
29 TristarAtLCA : Would the wildcatters have gone on strike if they knew in advance that such actions would lead to the loss of travel benefits? The actions of the lar
30 vv701 : This would be true if wildcat strikes were legal. But in most countries they are not. For example they were made illegal in the USA as long ago as 19
31 AirNZ : But yet very many did take part knowing such action. Are you thus stating that everyone who decided to strike is a 'wildcatter'? I don't think anyone
32 Post contains links TristarAtLCA : But they did. Quoting Willie Walsh: 'We have provided an undertaking that there will be no victimisation arising from this dispute. And, to the annoy
33 TristarAtLCA : Not sure of your logic here as the strikers in March held a legal ballot so by definition they were not part of a wildcat strike. Why would I conside
34 vv701 : Wow! An employee should not be personally interested in his employer! An employee and an employer are mutually interdependant. It is an employee's re
35 Speedbird741 : NO! WW should not back down, he should stand his ground and not give in to a union like Unite who seem to that we are still in the mid to late 20th c
36 yendig : So employee cares not a jot about employer's financial state, goes on strike which increases the employer's cash outflow, employer now in worse finan
37 tim222 : what I would like to know is how many of the contributers to this post are "armchair observers" that do not actually have all the facts about the situ
38 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Pride? Ego? How about financial realities of today.... Not sure by what you meant?
39 B747-4U3 : I am not a fan of neo-liberal theorists, however one thing they say that I do agree with is that they say that our society is made up of individual w
40 Scotron11 : So it's 20 days (or 15) doesnt really matter....but for that period all competitors with BA will have a field day! I think some big egos are playing p
41 GSTBA : GIB is planned to operate it's usual Daily departure, They could have used the aircraft to increase the number of domestic flights or even they could
42 GDB : This is an example of not seeing the bigger picture, rather like UNITE. WW will get all the financial support needed IF he does NOT back down to this
43 Carfield : Just curious if we can start a new thread just talk about the schedule and aircraft update... It will be easier for the readers if we can just have on
44 vc10 : I am not sure that this move would be legal, but here goes. The reason for 5 days on strike and one back at work is that the burden of loss of pay can
45 Bennett123 : AirNZ Whilst you argument is technically correct, if the firm that you are striking from, loses lots of money, can afford less staff and makes you red
46 ZKEyE : Rubbish - he is not backing down as he needs to bring the issue to a head once and for all. So if the law is to be ignored as it as it a mere technic
47 PRAirbus : Way to go Flight Attendants!!! You deserve respect and fair treatment. Show them who's boss!!!
48 Glom : That would be Willie Walsh. He's the boss. If they don't like it, they can go elsewhere. Thanks to stupid Greece, I now have £400 resting on the fat
49 LHR380 : Watching the striking crew jeer, and cheer, and make stupid comments at the strike base the last time, yea, they will really get my respect!!!
50 MD11Engineer : I wonder how long you non-striking BA employees are still willing to put up with the rubbish sprouted by BASSA? I understand British reserve, but I w
51 par13del : Not actually picking on these two posters but on the sentiments being expressed. It seems that folks are now saying that employee's should have input
52 JFKPurser : Go UNITE. Walsh the egomaniac has given you no option but to shut him down. He did not play fair from the beginning, and clearly he's willing to lose
53 evomutant : St Willie has stickhandled his way to a record £600m loss this year. Dynamic management there. Awful industrial relations, record breakingly horrific
54 JFKPurser : Indeed -- well put. And yes, this has been a bad year for BA like it has for all majors due to the economy -- an excuse he is basically using to extr
55 ANstar : Probably put towards the awful pension debt they have - which is not WW's fault. Revenue is also down by 1 billion.[Edited 2010-05-21 00:02:16]
56 nclmedic : In a way, I'm glad that WW has agreed a 'framework' to reinstrate perks, although I'm not sure what that might be. Probably some sort of phased re-int
57 Scotron11 : BA just reported that they lost £531M for the year!
58 DogBreath : Maybe you live in a padded cell? I hope not! What airline (save LCC's) isn't posting incredible losses? Just heard the other day that the KLM/AF cons
59 LHR380 : Keep thinking that JFKPurser. The unions have of course done nothing wrong, and not been in the wrong at all. No matter there was a lot of in fightin
60 Glom : Crap. Anyone want to buy me out?
61 LHR380 : Stay with it Glom.
62 par13del : Unfortunately, these are the extreme positions that people take which on a discussion forum actually kills the discussion.
63 LHR380 : Its a discussion, im putting my view across, am I not allowed to respond to someone stating its just one person that has caused the current situation
64 par13del : Like I said, extreme positions, at no point in my post did I say you are not allowed to have an opinion or to post one. If you think that was the int
65 EDICHC : A very hollow promise from a man who failed to stamp out the malicious gossip within BA regarding ex BA Capt Peter Burkill. In any dispute the blame
66 ANstar : Actually staff travel has been put back on the offer table. Check your facts first. But unfortunately 85% of BA is against this cabin crew nonse. Gro
67 CaptainCrackers : This, to me, is very interesting. It tells me that BA know they are in a weaker position and need to get the company working again. How many weeks di
68 GDB : Of course you have to be professional here, those with direct dealings with crew more so. So far unprofessional actions have come from one source onl
69 LHR380 : Staff travel has been put on the table to be given back, the reason unite wont accept it, and the strike is going ahead still is that the date of joi
70 AirNZ : Seems somewhat reasonable to me......how can one logically change the date of joining? One either joined something on a certain date, or one didn't.
71 jetblast : BA staff travel seniority is based on date of joining in many cases. If their date of joining is altered it could mean winning or losing seniority ov
72 indolikaa : I assumed this was nothing more than a class struggle...
73 LHR380 : Date would I guess just get changed in the system to the day ST is brought back to the staff member? And why should it be changed, well the striking
74 tcxdegsy : Watching BBC News this morning and an quick soundbite from one of the Unite guys (can't remember which one), I got the distinct impression that it's U
75 LHR380 : That's not what Unite were saying yesterday and the day before!
76 BlueFlyer : Reading too much into it, I fear. The Unite's rep comment is standard boilerplate stuff that any striking union puts out. They're always ready and wi
77 Sketty222 : If the soundbite that your talking of is the one I saw, I believe the guy worked for a different union and was giving his point of you.... I'll have
78 1stfl94 : I will admit to being one the 'armchair observers' but this strike concerns a lot of people, not just in the immediate future but longer term and the
79 Post contains links Woof : In a recession, trying to make cuts across the board and being hampered by the idiots at UNITE. What's the guy supposed to do? Thoughtless post, IMHO
80 Post contains images indolikaa : Ah, the joys of a militant socialist movement. I love that line, "but they are outsiders."
81 AirNZ : Everyone is correctly entitled to an opinion, but it is not 'opinion' which is being put across......it is people who have no stake whatever in the m
82 Woof : Come on mate, I agree with much of what you post, if not with some of the wording you use. To say that the collapse of a major UK employer would have
83 1stfl94 : Whilst I do agree that BA is not an essential national asset, it is one of the UK's leading and best known companies. Also if it did shut down, then
84 Glom : What a stupid thing to say! We are talking about one of the largest companies in the UK, which makes it: a) one of the largest employers b) one of th
85 par13del : Question, with all that at stake, why are only BA and UNITE involved in any serious negotiations, one would think that more authorities would get inv
86 Woof : That's what ACAS is for. Senior members of the previous UK government also chided in at times (Gordon Brown among them). Not sure if the same has yet
87 Post contains links nclmedic : Oh dear - members of Socialist Workers' Party have broken into ACAS and disrupted the meeting chanting 'We support the cabin crew'.....funny way of sh
88 par13del : I think that is my point, they only "chimed in" I have seen comments before and after the elecction but nothing serious to force the parties to get t
89 Woof : Indeed Agreed, but again that is what ACAS is for. It is a government body and you can bet their most senior staff are involved. I'm not sure what el
90 LHR380 : I saw them marching from Hatton Cross to the Bedfont Football club during the 2nd lot of strikes earlier this year. I was on the phone to a friend at
91 B747-4U3 : NXEC failed. Did the East Coast grind to a halt, no, the government has taken over until a suitable buyer can be found (I hope never). In the US many
92 Bongodog1964 : It now appears that they knew the secret talks were ongoing by following Derek Simpsons posts on twitter. Yet more incompetence on the part of UNITE.
93 Woof : Nobody has said that the UK would grind to a halt, but the comment in question was words to the effect that there would be no impact on the UK. Great
94 B747-4U3 : I never said there wouldn't. I was trying to say that the cataclysmic consequences that some seem to be hinting at will not materialise. How is that
95 Woof : I must have missed them. It's not, but that doesn't mean it's good for the UK. How is that trend good for the UK as a whole? Apart from the fact that
96 Widebody : Because WW knows its not about staff travel. Unite have claimed they have reached agreement with BA on everything. However the last proposal was no d
97 B747-4U3 : What we have to remember is that whilst vast parts of the UK business world are owned by foreign companies or investors, UK companies also own large
98 Post contains images Woof : I'm with you on much of this and will happily admit that pride is most definately one of my drivers. However, this two way street seems much more one
99 Post contains images par13del : Without taking the thread off-course, the majority of BA fans were very supportive of the merger deal just signed by BA, if foreign ownership is not
100 Woof : BA / IB doing what they need to do to both survive and be able to compete with their peers (still with a large UK interest, infrastructure base, empl
101 Post contains links Woof : Sky now reporting that the strikes will go ahead tomorrow after a "catastrophic" break down in talks. http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bus...A_Boss_Wi
102 par13del : Definately an error, but let's lay the rest of the blame where it belongs: 1. Who are these folks and what is their agenda 2. Where was the security
103 AirNZ : Considering the pride in the UK that I have, I have to completely disagree here and my opinion the BA/IB merger wasn't remotely connected with any UK
104 Widebody : Because BASSA have not yet put anything on the table, they have simply said no to everything. Mutual agreement has resulted in savings from ALL other
105 Simes : Sorry but the fact that WW has allowed this seemingly minor dispute become such a major problem shows very poor leadership and strategic thinking, unl
106 Widebody : Sorry but I have to pull you up on that. Armchair economics at its best. I could argue this with you on multiple levels. If a company the size of BA
107 Woof : You're confusing my thoughts and beliefs with the actions of BA & IB. It is my (dwindling) pride in the UK and things associated with it that wou
108 GDB : WW called UNITE or elements of it 'dysfunctional' then they go and prove it by having one of the joint heads of UNITE, during the highest level negoti
109 MD11Engineer : Who are they? Oldstyle Trotzkists wannabe revolutionaries? We have them here as well. Jan
110 par13del : I admit to being far away, so I'm in that crowd, as to the other about wishing the airline fails, don't think my thoughts on that mean anything, and
111 ANstar : Actually I think training up the VCC is a clever move. Goes to show that most employees actually support Walsh... I mean if you have pilots, engineer
112 Post contains links tcxdegsy : Looks to me like this is become more like a game of cat & mouse. According to BBC News reports (and Sky News), BA accepted an offer of a further A
113 tcxdegsy : Oops.. of course I meant Suspend the strike action,, not suspect!
114 LHR380 : Staff travel was on the table, with a change to the date of joining which the union did not like. WW wont give it back without restrictions after cle
115 robffm2 : If WW does not do it, the courts will. And rightly so.
116 david_itl : Seeing that this is a non-contractual item at the behest of the union so as to avoid tax, do you really expect Unite to challenge it in court.? Opens
117 LHR380 : Nope, don't think so. Plenty and plenty of warnings before during and after the ballot and strikes and Its does not form any part of any contract for
118 Post contains links and images DunaA320 : Seems BA are fighting back with these titles on the aircraft. Seen today at LHR View Large View MediumPhoto © Matt D
119 AirNZ : No, you might not think so indeed, except you're forgetting that in both United Kingdom, and indeed EU, law a contract between two parties doesn't ha
120 indolikaa : Agreed. Unless the subject matter falls under a statute of frauds, an oral agreement can be enforced as a matter of law. (Edited for grammar.)[Edited
121 LHR380 : You have seen the news so I don't need to reply to this message really.
122 ANstar : By the time this gets to the courts they will have either accepted the offer or be out of a job.
123 Widebody : Any cuts during one of the deepest recessions in history are a necessity. This is where the problem lies, BA is the employer and cabin crew are the e
124 Widebody : Come on AirNZ, this is basic stuff, stop peddling. By this time yesterday, all affected passengers would have been transferred off affected flights a
125 Glom : Again, Unite's logo is far too prominent on the pickett line. It rather confuses the message.
126 Sketty222 : Ive also heard that some of the volunteer crew from other areas of the business, who are alos members of Unite, have had letters from the union askin
127 EDICHC : His track record as CEO at EI suggests this may very well be the case. This has already happened in several major industries in the UK over the past
128 Glom : No-one said the collapse of BA would be an economic disaster. We're saying it will be a bit of a blow in the short term, in terms of direct employmen
129 EDICHC : ???? What is that all about???? If you find contradictory opinions to your own distressing don't enter the debate. We're? Perhaps your saying that bu
130 Post contains links ANstar : lol From the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2010/may/24/ba-strike
131 timboflier215 : The weather?! The gorgeous, sunny summer-type day we are currently enjoying? How many flights are BA currently able to operate? I take it from the abo
132 GDB : I would not put money on that. Given that suspension of staff travel is the most used disciplinary sanction the company uses, across the airline, for
133 DLPMMM : What percentage of CC are actually honoring the strike this time? What is to stop BA from not scheduling the striking CC for the 1 day that they want
134 evomutant : Nothing. But with a one day gap between each they will be asking a hell of a lot in overtime from strikebreakers if they refuse to roster strikers.
135 sbworcs : But how would this be "sold" to the non striking crews and the other staff groups that have given concessions? If management back down over this they
136 timboflier215 : They would also be unable to use it as a threat in any future strike scenario. How many crew wanted to strike, but didn't because they wanted to keep
137 AirNZ : And as I've already said, I wouldn't exactly put money on your confidence either however and, in my opinion, you are deliberately ignoring certain fa
138 Woof : Or, more to the point, from someone who has just taken the time to read some of your other BA related posts in other threads. I've yet to find one th
139 vv701 : No. It would impact the whole UK economy. BA is the largest commercial airline employer in Scotland. Apart from servicing its flights out of ABZ, EDI
140 Woof : I'm wondering how long it will be before somebody quotes you there as saying the UK economy will collapse.
141 TristarAtLCA : Unless the rules have been re-written it doesn't need disciplinary action to be removed. BA could theoretically turn round tomorrow and tell all its
142 EDICHC : Don't get me wrong I enjoy a healthy debate and welcome my views being questioned. Questioning is one thing, insulting is another. Trouble is what so
143 Woof : Hmmm not really. Ravenscraig cost less than 1000 direct jobs and Bathgate less than 2000. Although there would have been significant more indirect lo
144 LHR380 : No point trying to comment anymore, you and NZ seem adiment if BA went under it would not affect anyone or anything. No more posts in this thread fro
145 OA260 : It seems that Unite are now looking for a ''get out'' clause as these strikes have not worked, they have caused disruption and cancellations but they
146 vv701 : What is the relevance of this question? You said that the suggestion that a BA failure would impact "the entire UK economy was wrong. You said: I poi
147 EDICHC : That was the final round of job losses when the plant closed it had been scaled down however over the previous years and has employed nearly 10 times
148 EDICHC : I said no such thing. I have only said that It would not be the national disaster that some seem to think it would be.
149 Woof : Indeed, but this whole discussion has been about the UK economy and its impact as a whole, not about relatively small, relatively isolated parts of t
150 BP1 : Well - interesting to see that Phoenix has yet again, during this strike and the last strike been denied ANY BA flights. What is it about BA that they
151 timboflier215 : As has been said on other threads where you asked this question, pax can be easily re-routed via AA and their hubs. With the termination of the 1990'
152 Sketty222 : He can quite happily speak on my behalf Such as? Pulling out of non-profit making routes in the regions? ...............I was well aware of them but
153 Jacobin777 : I hope that's true...they might be getting desperate...I would love to see WW crush them once and for all.
154 EDICHC : I have never argued against the point that as a plc BA has to make a profit. But there are those on these forums that also think that BA are some kin
155 antonovman : Me too, even the news has died down on TV and on internet news. Apparntly there were more crew turned up for work yesterday than they needed to run t
156 Woof : Who would these people be? Are they posting in this thread? Earlier you described your continual knocking of BA as consistency rather than bias; do I
157 EDICHC : I think you will find FlyBe serves many more UK airports than BA
158 vc10 : I think you must read the post more accurately as he says "more destinations FROM the UK "--- not to the the UK ----or within the UK However it would
159 EDICHC : I did read it correctly, I was stating a counterpoint.
160 Woof : ... and BA is not called Intra British Airways, so I don't get your point? Anyway, back to the subject at hand, any news on the 'success' or otherwis
161 EDICHC : OK, I will make it simple for you. FlyBe serves more British airports, cities and communities than 'British' Airways do. Ergo they serve more of the
162 Woof : and Delta flies to more US destinations than American do, so should they be changing their name? I understand the point that you are 'trying' to make
163 cv990coronado : I haven't seen any reference regarding whether the strikers who are going on strike now and for whatever reason didn't previously have the travel conc
164 AIR MALTA : Back to topic, I haven't heard anything about flight reinstatement this time. I remember last time, BA managed to reinstate a lot of S/H flights and d
165 Bongodog1964 : However as BA provides far more services to the major population centres of the World, and carry far more passengers they actually "serve more of the
166 Woof : My apologies. I will try not to bite further. Again, have any numbers been released wrt to the support of the strike?
167 EDICHC : Only by virtue of their recent take over of NW, hardly a valid comparison. AA does serve a huge number of destinations within the continent of Americ
168 timboflier215 : So I assume you refuse to fly VS or CX (price fixing)? Or shop in a large supermarket? Or buy clothes made in 3rd world countries? Or buy any goods a
169 Woof : NI is not part of Britain, only the United Kingdom, so in making a point about others confusing Britain / England you make a similar mistake. I'll po
170 Post contains links MartynS : Here is somethimg current on the BBC ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10152552.stm Regards, Martyn
171 Woof : Hmmm so both sides are saying that the strike is meeting their expectations. No surprise there. I'm take it Derek will only join a picket line if it
172 GDB : Well I actually work at the place, can at the click of a mouse on companies own intranet system read the procedures around all this, so probably have
173 Post contains images par13del : Usually unions would send letter to all staff asking for support, not just union members, in this case would that be legal? Who exactly are the "volu
174 dlphoenix : My take on this: BA has no competition at PHX. Premium passengers that want to fly on an international premium product to Europe have no other choice
175 robbie86 : How's the strike looking now? Any deals between BA and the unions on the way? I'm flying with BA, ARN-LHR and onwards with VS LHR-IAD in a few weeks..
176 ANstar : Dont be. This stirke's legality ends on 12 June. After that if they choose to strike for the same reaosns they are out of a job. Therefore to continu
177 Bongodog1964 : Fortunately from your point of view, the present run of strikes only has a few days to run, in addition BA are managing to run a degree of service on
178 robbie86 : Yes it is. How about the travel agency then? Are they obliged to rebook me since it was their suggestion? And thanks for your help!
179 Bongodog1964 : Morally I would say they are, as it was their suggestion. Who is the originating carrier for the ticket, is it BA or VS ?[Edited 2010-06-06 08:51:29]
180 robbie86 : Don't exactly know where to see that but the e-ticket number begins with VS.
181 jetblast : Did you check BWI? We also have not had any service except for one flight yesterday. This is most likely because we can send people an hour down the
182 Bongodog1964 : I would suggest that Virgin Atlantic are the originating carrier if it starts with VS, thus BA would only be responsible for the 1st part of the jour
183 david_itl : Following yesterday's Tiananmen Square comparison, Duncan Holley's opinion today is that because Willie Walsh is alleged to be in Berlin, he's more li
184 AirNZ : Out of curiosity, how does your journey ARN-LHR-IAD have a VS ticket? I ask because the ticketing airline on a multi-leg ticket should be the first i
185 DLPMMM : The first international leg is not required to be on the ticketing carrier. I don't know where you got that idea.[Edited 2010-06-06 18:58:51]
186 Bongodog1964 : It may come as a surprise to some people on here who assume that VS are permanantly at war with BA, but Virgin quite regularly sell long haul tickets
187 AirNZ : From being in the aviation industry (and an IATA Ticketing specialist) for very many years! Not disputing any of that in the slightest and, indeed, a
188 Bongodog1964 : How can you argue against your own post which quite clearly states as I have quoted above.
189 LHR380 : Again hardly anyone at the Football club, and even not as many people as normal at Hatton Cross today.
190 sam1987 : I've only read some of the 189 replies to this thread so far, but I thought I'd add my opinion! I think the arguments of Bassa and Unite are flawed...
191 Post contains images Jacobin777 : The problem is some people just can't realize nor understand the truth nor the economic realities of today. Personally, I have no problems seeing a u
192 ANstar : UNITE has its place - it is BASSA that needs to go.
193 Jacobin777 : Both can go as far as I'm concerned...Unite seem to be an accessory to this current problem as far as I'm concerned.
194 GDB : You'd think he'd keep his head down, surely he's appealing against dismissal? Not a good idea to send hostile messages to non striking staff when usi
195 B747forever : That is great, then I dont have to worry when I fly to LHR with BA on my way to LAX on the 18th of June.
196 tcxdegsy : Reading your comments, it struck me that this could be the angle and reasons that BA have intimated some legal action around. I wonder if there's any
197 BoeingVista : If the full hearing on the notification of the ballot result goes against UNITE it would make all of the strike action taken illegal and would open U
198 ANstar : Interestingly UNITE paid for a full page ad in the FT yesterday. The comments received online were pretty much against the ad and in favour of BA... a
199 AIR MALTA : I think WW has a plan B if Unite calls for another strike!!! There was also an article in the Mirror on a female cabin crew complaining about her job
200 sasd209 : Is it possible to link said ad here without violating any rules/TOS?
201 Post contains links ANstar : Ad is here http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...ery-appealling-to-ba-shareholders/
202 sasd209 : Great, thanks mate! SASD209
203 Post contains images LHR380 : Those comments are fantastic, totally not want the union wanted, oh well
204 Glom : So what are the odds on an another ballot succeeding? How much before what's left of the union cries uncle? BA is operating most of its services. I'm
205 Post contains images cv990Coronado : "sam1987 Post 190" You are spot on The union must be hurting. I can see BA operating lots of flights and where they are cancelling it's often only one
206 Post contains links Edina : Really?? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...r-breaking-strike-115875-22317731/ And just in case you thought The Mirror was a little too left wing
207 ANstar : Lets wait and see if this is indeed true - it is not hard to put up a facebook page - didnt Holly mention Guerilla tactics? And arent they supposed t
208 Vasu : It would be interesting to see how this develops... at the moment I smell something fishy too!
209 GDB : Edina, like it or not, nothing that part time crew/full time BASSA reps say can be taken seriously, Bunch of over privileged BS merchants. Not after t
210 speedmarque : Why? Pilots are not above being stupid. Neither are they above employment rules. These pilots will be disciplined in the same manner some cabin crew
211 ANstar : I never said the pilots were abo ve employment rules - merely saying that this smells of a BASSA dirty trick. Especially as it appears that it was le
212 speedmarque : A lesson to all people who collect "friends" on facebook. One of your "friends" could always turn against you. If you don't see these people outside
213 ANstar : Exactly - if it is TRUE these people should go through the disciplinary process. Likewise, if some BASSA loon as created fake facebook profiles from
214 Sketty222 : Funny how both these newspapers are owned by Trinity Mirror If the pilots have done wrong then yes, they should be investigated and disciplined as an
215 1stfl94 : Do BA give staff any guidelines on using websites?? My employer gave us a four page dossier and asked us not to mention their name on our facebook pag
216 Post contains links 1stfl94 : What the mirror haven't mentioned is the homophobic rants by the pilots. Very sad given that BA is considered one of the top LGBT employers in the cou
217 ANstar : They also forgot to mention all of the text in the "said posts" which you would see the pilots are certainly not homophobic.
218 Post contains links timboflier215 : Sorry if this was posted above, but Unite are to ballot for more strikes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10271115.stm No end in sight sadly.
219 Post contains images Glom : Well if Woodley f***** up and led everyone astray, the last thing he's going to do is admit. Eventually, Walsh will settle with Woodley by offering a
220 Edina : Wrong......The Evening Standard is owned 75.1% by Alexander Lebedev, and 24.9% by Associated Newspapers (ie the Daily Mail). As to VCC's I have worke
221 ANstar : Actually I am sure there is. BA can act under SOSR. That is once the dispute is out of the protected period (ie 12 June) then they can issue ALL cabi
222 Glom : What is this protected period?
223 ANstar : 12 weeks from start of strike action. BA can now legally issue all crew with new contracts. If they refuse to sign, they are treated a sif they resig
224 robbie86 : So is the strike over now? Accordning to ba.com it is. "We are pleased that the industrial action started by Unite on 24 May has now come to an end. W
225 ANstar : yep - the current dispute is over - ie they cant lawfully reballot their members on the same issues again. So they have come up with a new dispute wh
226 GDB : The cheek of them, 'vindictive' is the right word to describe the actions of those being disciplined. When you know rather more of what they are bein
227 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Dear Unite..piss off......you get what you deserve..... So lets see, BA should have just sat around waiting until those striking decided to come back
228 LHR380 : Which all those people accepted with out any prejudice because they knew they would be helping keep themselves in work by keeping the airline running
229 david_itl : Didn't Unite say the last ballot was about Staff Travel and Disciplinary issues? Anyone clarfy that they can use these reasons again as I've seen it r
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