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Southwest Asked To Establish A Hub In SJU  
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 625 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15426 times:

According to this article (only in Spanish, sorry), http://www.elnuevodia.com/puertosquiereaquiasouthwest-707821.htm, SJU officials have asked Southwest Airlines to establish a hub in SJU and are waiting for their answer.

Do you expect them to accept the proposal? Are Southwest aircraft overwater certified? If they accept, I think it will be great for SJU and Puerto Rico.

[Edited 2010-05-20 11:50:03]

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15374 times:

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
Are Southwest aircraft overwater certified?

They have life vests on their aircraft, but anything beyond that (being overwater certified) I do not know.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15376 times:

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
Are Southwest aircraft overwater certified?

Well I know they fly routes over the gulf, between Florida and Texas...FLL to HOU isn't much further over water than FLL to SJU


User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6177 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15350 times:

The Puerto Rico tourism officials dont know what they are doing, WN does not just start flying somewere and establishes a hub. Additionally, to my knowedge they are not overwater certified, they can change that but I don't think thats in their immediate plans. I personally believe this is going to go nowere, la oficina de turismo has a long wish list, from getting more European service to having links to Brazil, Argentina and Chile to now wanting WN to establsih a hub in SJU. Dream on. The government of Puerto Rico should focus on maintaining the airlines it currently has before it starts inviting others to build a hub.

Regards,

Chepos

[Edited 2010-05-20 11:46:08]

[Edited 2010-05-20 11:47:04]


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1678 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15272 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 3):
The Puerto Rico tourism officials dont know what they are doing, WN does not just star flying somewere and establishes a hub. Additionally, to my knowedge they are not overwater certified, they can change that but I don't think thats in their immediate plans. I personally believe this is going to go nowere, la oficina de turismo has a long wish list, from getting more European service to having links to Brazil, Argentina and Chile to now wanting WN to establsih a hub in SJU. Dream on. The government of Puerto Rico should focus on maintaining the airlines it currently has before it starts inviting others to build a hub,

I agree - the format of their request and the idea itself of WN of all carriers seems to be a) ignorant or b) political posturing. I would suggest them try to lure B6 in - a much more likely candidate and one that already has a heavy radar on the Caribbean and Northern South America.


User currently offlineWNcrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15242 times:

We can do overwater operations no more than 162nm from shore (not sure if there's an official name)... but no further out than that. We only have live vests... no rafts.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15189 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 3):
Additionally, to my knowedge they are not overwater certified, they can change that but I don't think thats in their immediate plans.

Florida to SJU wouldn't require overwater, nor would Texas-SJU, but most routes from the east coast or midwest would.

The bigger problem for WN is that their certificate does not permit them to fly to SJU. Presumably, if they had any interest in flying to SJU, they would have changed it at some point.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinephllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15022 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
Well I know they fly routes over the gulf, between Florida and Texas...FLL to HOU isn't much further over water than FLL to SJU

HOU/IAH - SJU is 4 hours non-stop. I believe there is more overwater and fewer diversion airports on the FLL/MIA-SJU segment than the Houston-S. Florida, considering they follow the coast until the mouth of the Mississippi and then cut across the Gulf and make landfall between Tampa-Naples, so you're really not too far from any major airport for more than 45 minutes max.


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7127 posts, RR: 87
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14995 times:

There is a Facebook page encouraging Southwest to make SJU their next destination.  http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19645527121

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14899 times:

Quoting phllax (Reply 7):
HOU/IAH - SJU is 4 hours non-stop. I believe there is more overwater and fewer diversion airports on the FLL/MIA-SJU segment than the Houston-S. Florida, considering they follow the coast until the mouth of the Mississippi and then cut across the Gulf and make landfall between Tampa-Naples, so you're really not too far from any major airport for more than 45 minutes max.

Between various airports in the Bahamas, POP, PSE, and SJU, there are actually more diversion points than you'd think on the way to Puerto Rico too. The problem area is north of there, which is why a route like BWI-SJU would likely require overwater capabilities.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14831 times:

Ahhh, if it were only that easy -- a city asks WN to start service there and ~poof!~ it happens?! Well, hey, while we're at it, let's ask them to not only serve our fair city but establish a hub here! Done!

Dear Puerto Rico, last time I checked, it doesn't seem to work that way. (Detail: maybe this is a translation issue but WN doesn't do hubs!)

WN probably has a room full of similar requests...

bb


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14799 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Florida to SJU wouldn't require overwater, nor would Texas-SJU, but most routes from the east coast or midwest would.

  

It’s also worth noting that the 162 nm limit applies only below 35 degrees North latitude. Any further north and the limit is only 100 nm.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14799 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Between various airports in the Bahamas, POP, PSE, and SJU, there are actually more diversion points than you'd think on the way to Puerto Rico too. The problem area is north of there, which is why a route like BWI-SJU would likely require overwater capabilities.

They could overfly something like MIA-NAS-PLS-STI-PUJ-SJU, but I don't know if even with a route like this they would need overwater equipment. For the east coast to SJU, for sure.


User currently offlinejetboy2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13926 times:

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
SJU officials have asked Southwest Airlines to establish a hub in SJU and are waiting for their answer

Even if all of the technicalities with diversion airports, etc... were worked out, I don't see it happening. A WN hub in SJU would only happen if WN started flying internationally. To my knowledge, the purpose of AA's hub there is to provide connections to the smaller Caribbean islands, and WN would have to do the same because only flying back to the mainland would not justify or support a "hub". Plus the stage lengths wouldn't mesh very well with WN's model.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5429 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13801 times:

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
Southwest Airlines to establish a hub

And it would be their only hub to boot.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2937 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13738 times:

I don't get it. Why would WN be asked to establish a hub (or large operation) while B6 keeps expanding SJU and has shown a rather obvious interest in expanding its Caribbean/Central/South American operations? Seems like B6 would be the best bet - or even get AA to build service back up. But WN? There's not much logic to it.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12879 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13627 times:

Perhaps what the SJU people really want is a it to be a focus city for WN with a number of cities served with non-stop or same-a/c flights. I suspect they badly want more competition vs. AA and their hubs to pull down prices and offer better service.

WN and SJU would be a good match. It is still in the USA so no customs issues. It would offer reasonable priced service that many desire in PR and those of PR Herritage in the Mainline USA, especially with their 'Bags Fly Free' policy. While WN serves many business travelers on some of it's routes, SJU service would mainly be casual, family and tourist travelers. Offering at least 2 flights a day (each way) to MIA, LGA, ISP, BWI, MDW, PHL, BOS would be great.


User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 551 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13413 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 14):
And it would be their only hub to boot.

Come on are you telling me that BWI, Chicago Midway, DEN, PHX, and BNA aren't hubs in everything but name? They connect a stink a load of passengers through all of those cities.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5429 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13234 times:

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 17):
Come on are you telling me that BWI, Chicago Midway, DEN, PHX, and BNA aren't hubs in everything but name? They connect a stink a load of passengers through all of those cities.

I should have put hub in quotes, to convey the meaning better.

I was trying to express that the PR tourism office was obviously making a PR statement that was worded in a way that conflicts with the PR statements Southwest puts out regarding their route structure. A violation of semantics, if you will.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2492 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13118 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 15):
I don't get it. Why would WN be asked to establish a hub (or large operation) while B6 keeps expanding SJU and has shown a rather obvious interest in expanding its Caribbean/Central/South American operations? Seems like B6 would be the best bet - or even get AA to build service back up. But WN? There's not much logic to it.

JetBluefan1

There you go. Let WN build a bigger operation at AUS that's being called for by the JetBlue fan on the What Is B6 Route Planning Doing? thread and Jet Blue build the SJU operation vs. WN. Does that make everyone happy?

I would assume the "hub" requested at SJU would serve other Caribbean destinations, which doesn't fit the WN mold of starting a station with at least 8 or so flights.


User currently offlinejeffrey1970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1336 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12630 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 3):
The Puerto Rico tourism officials dont know what they are doing, WN does not just start flying somewere and establishes a hub. Additionally, to my knowedge they are not overwater certified, they can change that but I don't think thats in their immediate plans. I personally believe this is going to go nowere, la oficina de turismo has a long wish list, from getting more European service to having links to Brazil, Argentina and Chile to now wanting WN to establsih a hub in SJU. Dream on. The government of Puerto Rico should focus on maintaining the airlines it currently has before it starts inviting others to build a hub.

You are probably right. However, remember it was not that long ago when officials from Baltimore flew to Dallas to meet with Southwest officials about having flights to Baltimore. At that time Southwest was not even thinking about Baltimore. Now they have there own terminal in Baltimore. So I guess that goes to show is it does not hurt to ask.



God bless through Jesus, Jeff
User currently offlineFP From United States of America, joined May 2010, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11856 times:

What about CVG? It seems there might be some opportunities at Cincinnati for WN.

User currently offlineregupilot From Puerto Rico, joined Jan 2004, 491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11610 times:

Here's my quick translation for Acercamiento a Southwest article. For some reason, the link in the starter didn't worked on me.

Quote:
I his quest to bring new arlines to Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico Ports Authority's director , Arnaldo Deleo, pokes Southwest Airlines, asking them to establish operations in the island. Deleo said he submitted an application to Southwest for them to locate a “hub” in Puerto Rico. “We’re waiting for an answer”, Deleo said.

In another note, Deleo pointed out that the US Homeland Security and US Custom Border Patrol offices were asked for a permit to allow the operation of an “in transit room” in Luis Muñoz Matin airport through a pilot plan. This concept was canceled because of 9/11 terrorist attacks. The director explained that today, international travelers (going through Puerto Rico) must go through customs checks and US Immigration and even possess a US Visa to be able to enter US soil.
He explained that with an “in transit room”, the passenger exits the plane and waits in a designated waiting room while the plane gets ready to depart. “With this (system) we could succeed in bringing more international airlines”, Delco said. He then added that it was explained to federal agencies that LMM airport lost flights from international airlines like British Airways, Lufthansa and Avianca. He even went on to say that this concept is applied already with passengers that make a stop in the island to make a connection with another flight. For example, he said that a passenger arriving from Venezuela could take a flight from Puerto Rico destined to Spain.

As Chepos mentioned, Puertorrican officials, sadly, don't really understand how things work. This is well proven with the current political and every other situation in the island, and I'm glad people is already noticing. However, it doesn't hurt to apply as they might have applied with many other airlines.
What I don't understand is how much more can Puerto Rico do or what more do we have to attract more people. I mean, we've lost lots of AA flights and B6 took advantage of that. Same for NK and AirTran but, it's there more to add? Southwest would be serving the same markets. I don't think bringing them will add anything new, or at least not in the near terms.

Like others said, its smarter to help NK and B6 to build or enhance on their Caribbean network. They could really take advantage of having flights to north eastern South America and the eastern Caribbean connect here (SJU) to NYC or some other city in the East Coast than flying to FLL. Besides, SJU is quieter now.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1678 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10835 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 19):
I would assume the "hub" requested at SJU would serve other Caribbean destinations, which doesn't fit the WN mold of starting a station with at least 8 or so flights.

They could get 8 flights from the USA (ex. FLL, PHL, BWI, NAS, MDW, MCO), but as mentioned not very many intra-Caribbean that could be profitable with 150-seater B737s. It would lower fares on Continental USA-Puerto Rico, and hence draw higher volumes of traffic. So in theory not a bad idea - its just that the PR tourism board did not seem to have done their homework on WN and their approach to growth. If they haven't flown yet to Mexican or Canadian airports which require no over-water flying, are as little as an hour away in some cases and where they've already locked up partners (Volaris, Westjet), they surely are not ready to consider PR.


User currently offlinexdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9694 times:

Quoting regupilot (Reply 22):

In my must humble opinion.

Mr. Deleo is a veteran EAL manager and very much aware of the potential SJU has.
It is a real shame that AA can not think out of the Box and make SJU a AA/Eagle hub and bring
the regional jets to SJU.

I agree that this sounds desperate, but Spirit and others considered SJU strategic at
one point or another. Perhaps B6 could buy Spirit and move their FLL ops to SJU.


25 vin2basketball : Not that they have to build a hub at AUS, just that it could work. I'm not really a B6 fan, I'm more neutral because I've never flown them. But the p
26 Goldenshield : That's nothing that a quick revision sent the Southwest's CMO for approval couldn't fix.
27 aajfksjubklyn : Its almost as though the island is trying to spiteful to AA and retaliate for AA's pull back. Here is my opinion about PR in general from a tourist st
28 fascm170 : Finish Terminal A and then will see who wants to build up their ops in SJU. Terminal A has become a joke for the past 2 years and only shows politics
29 PRAirbus : I don't think it"ll happen. SWA is not going to re-equip its 737s to fly overwater and have a sub-fleet; it won't be cost-effective. If jetBlue has a
30 OP3000 : I agree with your premise. They've probably already asked B6, and chances are the response was something to the effect of "not right now". B6 in the
31 Post contains images jerseyguy : If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Oh and a Bridge in Chicago (MDW), Baltimore (BWI), Nashville (BNA), Las Vegas (LAS), De
32 Prinair : Ay Bendito! The PR Tourism board should encourage the govt. to clean up the island and perhaps promote better training to hospitality workers. They sh
33 Post contains images PRAirbus : PR needs strong major airlines that provide better international connections and attract business travelers. Eventhough there is a low-fare VFR market
34 goomba : They'd have to ETOPS certify bevy of their birds and that's not cheap.
35 Silver1SWA : The term "hub" refers to a system that is more than just the size of an operation in a city. While those cities have a lot of WN flights and a lot of
36 rj777 : I think Puerto Rico will become a state BEFORE WN makes SJU a hub.
37 aajfksjubklyn : Did anyone read my post? I couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38 jerseyguy : While you might look at the technical defination, I think most people look at the spirit of the defination. While I can fly from Philadelphia to Tamp
39 einsteinboricua : I can only hope WN lands here in PR. At any rate, Puerto Ricans are the type of passengers that WN would like and vice-versa. Unlike the American, the
40 Prinair : How things have changed then.... when I was a flight attendant for EA, they wanted every possible amenity at the absolute lowest price. We used to ha
41 737tanker : WN doesn't have to re-equip thier fleet to fly to Puerto Rico because all of their aircraft are equipped to fly 160 miles from the land, which can be
42 Silver1SWA : I don't care what most people think. Most people think all large airliners are "jumbo jets" or all business jets are "lear jets". It doesn't mean any
43 jerseyguy : I apologise to SANFan I went over the top, I didn't mean to insult him, I was trying to make a joke out of it. Yes they are not technically hubs, I f
44 USAirALB : I have said this before, and I may be wrong, so someone please correct me, I believe WN and either AS or Aloha(Can't remember which one) flew to Hawai
45 Post contains images MrSkyGuy : I'm a clean, educated business-travelling frequent-flying American.. and I'm more than happy flying WN. In fact, I prefer WN over other domestic carr
46 Cubsrule : Correct - but that sort of begs the question of why they haven't already done it if they are at all interested in the Caribbean (or in Mexico or Cana
47 chepos : Puerto Rican travelers (at least some) are very strict and yes they are stngy. When I used to work at Customer Relations and a SJU flight was delayed
48 Post contains images BHMNONREV : Semantics...
49 737tanker : In a large point to point network you do not have banks of arrivals and departures. The aircraft will be scheduled at the gate for 20 - 40 minutes. F
50 Post contains images dlflynhayn : Speak for yourself!! I love my first class seat(when available)
51 Cubsrule : So is DL/ATL - which has no banks and turns a typical narrowbody in 40 or 50 minutes - not a hub?
52 jerseyguy : My point exactly I'm with you, a customer friendly airline with no nickle and diming works for me.
53 QANTAS747-438 : Yup, it's true. Since Southwest was the launch customer for the -700, Boeing and WN flew one of the first -700s to Hawaii for ETOPS proving/testing a
54 F9Fan : WN's bread and butter is short hops, such as SLC-DEN-MDW-CLE-BWI-TPA-MSY. The closest city to SJU that WN currently serves is FLL, some two hours away
55 Cubsrule : Once upon a time, that was true. But when they opened BOS, they didn't start BOS-PHL, and when they opened MKE, they didn't start MKE-MSP. I don't kn
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