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Crew Fail To Handle Drunk Passenger  
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 6054 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14456 times:

What should have been done in this situation http://www.pakistaniaviationforum.co...2afd50f92552ef1ade2&showtopic=3941 looks like BYOB should also be stopped onboard.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinenclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14314 times:

Well obviously this is a 2nd hand account of the situation so we can't be certain that there haven't been embelishments along the way.

With that proviso, I'm fairly certain that this would have been handled differently on a UK airline. Crew are all trained to deal with abusive and violent passengers, and are given the training to use restraints if required. If there's any immediate danger to the aircraft or passengers then the captain will more often than not divert. I'm fairly suprised that the crew didn't even arrange for the police to meet the flight.

However, on a side note, I have been on a flight in the US before (either DL or UA) when a passenger with panic disorder and no medication had a panic attack. I'm a doctor, and to be honest panic attacks aren't that serious on their own, and usually once you've got breathing under control they pass. For the sufferer, however, they're terrifying, and often can feel like you're going to die. During the entire incident, the crew demonstrated not only a complete lack of training in dealing with this passenger (sitting nearby, I offered my services and the FA just pointed me to the galley and walked off), they showed a complete lack of interest in helping. I ended up sitting with the passenger for the rest of the flight. The crew didn't even appear in our cabin again for another 4 hours until they checked the seatbelts.

It's perhaps a worrying trend in some areas where training is clearly lacking. It's fine training an FA how to perform CPR, but cardiac arrests are far less common than violence or mental health disorders.


User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13445 times:

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 1):
It's perhaps a worrying trend in some areas where training is clearly lacking. It's fine training an FA how to perform CPR, but cardiac arrests are far less common than violence or mental health disorders.

As a crew member with a bit of advanced mental health training, I agree with this 100%. In more than ten years of flying, I have experienced about 10 traumatic medical emergencies (heart attacks, miscarriage, stroke, mass food poisoning etc)...but mental health disorders are far more common. While I can not condone the lack of attention by your USA crew, I can point out that in the United States, the boundaries of flight attendant training are limited by one word: liability.

There is a significant population of flight attendants who are registered nurses, physician assistants, mental health professionals, EMTs and even some retired M.D.'s. Despite this pool of talent, U.S. crew members are forbidden to use any skills outside of the very basic training documented in the FA Operating Manual.


User currently onlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13354 times:

I have to agree there is a difference between a pax with anxiety disorder/panic attack and someone who had too much booze. I wouldn't be surprised if this is some Pakistani having too much booze.

If I was on the plane and this was happening in front of me, I would have gotten as many pax & F/As as possible and gotten the person subdued and tied down.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13243 times:

Quoting 777way (Thread starter):
looks like BYOB should also be stopped onboard.



Here in Canada is forbidden to consume your own alcohol. Only alcoholic beverages served by the cabin crew can be consumed aboard. The question is if the cabin crew isn't too busy to actually enforce this rule.


User currently offlineAirportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3717 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13226 times:

That article mentions the lack of a pilot showing up to solve the altercation(s)...

WHY the hell would anyone want the pilot to get involved in that ruckus? So he/she could be injured?

Get real.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13154 times:
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Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 5):

WHY the hell would anyone want the pilot to get involved in that ruckus?

It's not uncommon with the legacy carriers for the captain to provide assistance to cabin crew with a passenger that has had too much alcohol. Obviously, if the purser feels the passenger could present a physical threat they wouldn't ask the captain to get involved. I've personally seen the captain give a 'final warning' on multiple flights. LAS and HNL flights are famous for them.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12594 times:

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 5):
WHY the hell would anyone want the pilot to get involved in that ruckus? So he/she could be injured?

Im with you, I don't want the pilot of any plane im in to be anywhere near a crazy man! I am perfectly fine with the pilots staying behind a locked door in the security of the cockpit while everyone else fights with the drunk!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9718 times:

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 5):
That article mentions the lack of a pilot showing up to solve the altercation(s)...

WHY the hell would anyone want the pilot to get involved in that ruckus? So he/she could be injured?

Get real.

Opening the flight deck door when there is a disruptive passenger in the cabin is a BAD idea!

I know that here in the US F/As would step in in a situation like this and, with the help of some able bodied passengers, restrain the physically disruptive passenger.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 2):
There is a significant population of flight attendants who are registered nurses, physician assistants, mental health professionals, EMTs and even some retired M.D.'s. Despite this pool of talent, U.S. crew members are forbidden to use any skills outside of the very basic training documented in the FA Operating Manual.

I've heard that F/As can't even give out an Aspirin without the permission of a doctor? I'm not sure what an F/A could do to help a panicked passenger medication wise.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9502 times:

My father was on a flight many years ago with BA across the pond, and someone was quite drunk, starting fights. At one point, he ran for the door, and tried to open it. Eventually, the pilot came running down the isle, and was able to handcuff him to a seat. That is what I would have expected to happen in this situation, if the FA's did not step in. He should have been arrested on the ground.

User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1804 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 1):
It's perhaps a worrying trend in some areas where training is clearly lacking. It's fine training an FA how to perform CPR, but cardiac arrests are far less common than violence or mental health disorders.


Crew are usually trained to deal with panic attacks/hyperventilation.......whether or not those crew members you mention chose to put that training into practice is a different story. Despite that, is it really practical to train crew in a variety of mental disorders? I believe not because ultimately it is not their role. Whereas CPR is there to preserve life and is critical in nature, mental health is not. Perhaps a little bit more awareness maybe a compromise (would have been good for the flight you mentioned) but you have to remember that whilst they are "Avmed" trained, ultimately crew aren't medical professionals.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 10):
Whereas CPR is there to preserve life and is critical in nature, mental health is not. Perhaps a little bit more awareness maybe a compromise (would have been good for the flight you mentioned) but you have to remember that whilst they are "Avmed" trained, ultimately crew aren't medical professionals.

All I could imagine a F/A being able to do is get the passenger water, give them oxygen (Or would that make the panic attack worse?), and sit with the passenger and try to calm them down. Unless F/As get trained to the level of EMTs, which is unnecessary, they couldn't start an IV or administer medication. I think the on board medical kits contain Valium (I'm not positive) so if a doctor is on board the doctor could administer Valium.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6921 times:

Quoting heathrow (Reply 9):
My father was on a flight many years ago with BA across the pond, and someone was quite drunk, starting fights. At one point, he ran for the door, and tried to open it. Eventually, the pilot came running down the isle, and was able to handcuff him to a seat. That is what I would have expected to happen in this situation, if the FA's did not step in.

Prior to 9/11 I wouldn't have been surprised to have a pilot do what was done on your father's flight. However since 9/11 the basic rule in that type of situation is for the pilots to keep the cockpit door closed and locked, and not to open the door until the palne has landed and is at the gate.


User currently offlineindolikaa From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5215 times:

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 2):
While I can not condone the lack of attention by your USA crew, I can point out that in the United States, the boundaries of flight attendant training are limited by one word: liability.

So true.


I would not recommend a flight attendant intervene physically with an unruly passenger. The odds of there not being an idiot like me, a person who's always willing to engage a piss-drunk fool in hand-to-hand combat, on a commercial flight are pretty low. I have a couple of knuckle scars to prove it. One word of caution: your necktie is a versatile business tool, but there's only a few millimeters difference between a restraint and a tourniquet. Tighten carefully.



Vote for Pedro
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

The Crew should have used the Tape & Tiewraps.


Think of the brighter side!
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