mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22719 posts, RR: 88 Posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7737 times:
We've been discussing this in the Frontier thread, but perhaps it should have a wider audience. Attempts are being made to raise money to buy what is left of Lynx and reform it as a new airline - Fly Smart:
"If three former airline executives have their way, airline passengers in five Wyoming communities soon will have a low-cost option for flights to Denver International Airport.
Former Western Airlines pilot and Chief Operating Officer of ATA Airlines Inc., Bill Beal; former Sun Country and Great Lakes executive Nick Wangler, and, Steven Westberg, former chief financial officer of Midway Airlines and a former vice president of Continental Airlines are busy with the plans."
They want to raise $40 million and buy Lynx Aviation.
I don't know anything about these people, I have no idea if they can raise the money, which is probably the biggest early stumbling block.
If they can raise the money, I hope they spread their wings beyond Wyoming and extend service in Colorado and Utah. They're already talking about Provo - PVU - as an alternate to SLC.
It may all just be a pipe dream, of course, and come to nothing.
mariner
ps: There's a pop-up ad of Nearly Nekkid Ladies takes over the page after a few seconds - just hit the back button. Or not - up to you.
bjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7231 times:
I have always liked the idea of PVU being an alternative to SLC. The Provo/Orem MSA has over 500,000. Although F9 might see it as poaching their SLC traffic. Good luck to them.
"An idea has to be incredibly absurd to have any reasonable chance of succeeding" --A. Einstein
sldispatcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 330 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7224 times:
I would think that a Pinnacle/Colgan would want to snap that up....in preparation for the big merger. Keeping low cost turbo lift in the Denver area..or advancing the IAH crossover.
With that being said, I wish the investors well if they want to do this.
thegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2273 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7090 times:
It looks like they plan to be a bare bones regional LCC giving them a fighting chance....
Will it survive and how they will get there hands on $40 mil idk....
Do I think it will work probably not but the Q400 is a very economical aircraft...
sldispatcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 330 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7083 times:
I guess as long as they can provide feed to an F9 or such and onward connections, they can have a fighting chance.
Mariner: I seem to remember somewhere back a reason that RAH didn't really desire to continue LYNX..was it so few frames? Excess capacity?
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4397 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7075 times:
In the other thread I noticed a few people floating TWF as a potential destination for them, but what about PIH? PIH is building a new terminal as we speak and hoping the old adage "if you build it they will come" will hold true.
If this airline is willing to alternate destinations, I'm hoping there's a chance we could see service to PIH.
timboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1238 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6848 times:
Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 4): I seem to remember somewhere back a reason that RAH didn't really desire to continue LYNX..was it so few frames? Excess capacity?
Wasn't there also a problem with the public's perception of prop a/c? I seem to remember that there was a newspaper scare campaign in Denver against the Q400 when F9 first mooted the idea of Lynx?
This could work out well for F9, if the Fly Smart really does work, as it will provide them the feed without the cost and risk of running the airline....I wish them all the best, but it's a tough environment out there.
flyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 978 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6776 times:
I thought that F9 claimed they wanted to get rid of LYNX completely, because some of the Republic people saw LYNX as a natural competitor. If so it might explain why LYNX is for sale, they either become flysmart or get bought by Colgan or some other company. As for using PVU as an alternative to SLC, I personally think its a terrible idea. Sure provo has a large catchment area, and people in SLC would be willing to drive the 20-30 min to provo, however I do not see it working due to terminal constraints and no feed whatsoever from established carriers. I think if they do go ahead and it makes a profit, OO might decide to fight them head on. Afterall Utah has long been deep OO territory.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
mtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2122 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6603 times:
I find their proposed locales a bit limited.
I really doubt there would be enough demand LAR-DEN and beyond that wouldn't drive to DEN. Perhaps they will try for EAS $ that ZK gets at LAR.
Cody seems too seasonal, Riverton/Lander a bit small for 70 seat a/c, Casper perhaps a decent stop.
May as well try a FOE-DEN to capture the pax that drive to MCI, plus more potential pax by far; DEN-LBB; FLG-DEN; ROW-DEN. It would seem to be better than into Wyoming, with already having flights on the proposed routes. If their proposed model seems so good to them, take it to a bigger pool of pax.
Mentioned earlier was Pocatello,ID. I believe that also would be a decent destination. They need other options than 3 or 4 120s to SLC.
Wish them luck, but not holding breath.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 10, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6525 times:
If the sale does go through, I hope BB includes a no-compete clause on the Q400's in that Bill of Sale.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22719 posts, RR: 88 Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6427 times:
Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 4): Mariner: I seem to remember somewhere back a reason that RAH didn't really desire to continue LYNX..was it so few frames? Excess capacity?
Republic - BB - always had concerns about the turboprop operation. Rational or just didn't like props, who knows?
When they acquired Frontier they pretty soon cancelled the 9 x Q400 options and started a review of Lynx.
He says he was prepared to be persuaded in favor, at least for some routes, and they had discussions with other airlines about contract work, but got no takers.
BB also says they were getting a clear turboprop avoidance factor on certain critical routes, where the Q's competed with jets.
It didn't apply on routes where there was no jet competition.
If there is any evidence these guys can raise the money, I think he should be a friend to this venture. I think it could be very useful to Frontier.
beryllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6338 times:
"Five WY communities to DEN"...
As of today, every WY community with a more or less sizable population already has service to DEN.
CPRDEN, CODDEN, GCCDEN, and RKSDEN on UA/OO.
CYSDEN, LARDEN, RIWDEN, RKSDEN, SHRDEN . WRLDEN on ZK.
JACDEN on F9/L3, UA/OO, and UA mainline (seasonally).
Those routes would hardly be able to support 2 airlines (with the exception of JACDEN and, probably, CPRDEN). Especially, if the new entrant wants to serve them on Q400. That plane is just too big for those routes. B1900 (that's what ZK has) is the most suitable type. Entering with Q400 on, let's say, WRLDEN would do nothing but flood the market with capacity, and the planes would fly empty.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22719 posts, RR: 88 Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6245 times:
Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 6): This could work out well for F9, if the Fly Smart really does work, as it will provide them the feed without the cost and risk of running the airline
Hmmmm. CAPA has added a teensy tad of color to this:
CAPA: "During its conference call, Republic said it has been discussing the sale of Lynx. The company is open to discussions with qualified buyers for either the entity or the aircraft, spokesperson Carlo Bertolini told CAPA. We have held discussions with several interested parties and cannot speculate about how this process will work out, he said."
Fair enough. That say that other parties are interested, with no clue as to who they are. These people could be one of those parties.
But - earlier - CAPA says:
CAPA: Perhaps taking a cue from Republic Airways Holdings' first quarter conference call, during which management said it wants to sell Lynx Aviation either in part or in whole, a group of former airline executives announced they were interested in buying the subsidiary of Frontier Airlines, which was set to shut down in autumn."
Which implies that these guys did not become interested until after Republic - BB - made that statement.
So - who are the others who might be interested in Lynx? And if these guys are av-nut/businessmen, wouldn't they have known this anyway?
Is there more to this than meets the eye?
Once you drill into the concept, all sorts of possibilities turn up. For some time there have been rumors that the city of Logan, UT - LGU - has been in discussions with Frontier about service to DEN - it doesn't have to be daily.
Since they've already talked about PVU - Provo UT - if you add LGU to that, then it starts to look more than a "regional Allegiant" concept.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22719 posts, RR: 88 Reply 15, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6064 times:
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 14): Mariner You mean SGU? That would be a good tag on to PVU. But then again OO flies SGU-SLC. and from what I've heard its not profitable.
I don't think so. Unless I have the airport code cocked up (which is always possible) SGU is St. George, UT, and I believe "another regional" is going to start that from DEN when the new airport opens.
I think LGU is Logan UT, and - I believe - they have been talking to Frontier about service to DEN, although not necessarily daily.
JBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2279 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6007 times:
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 14):
Mariner You mean SGU? That would be a good tag on to PVU. But then again OO flies SGU-SLC. and from what I've heard its not profitable.
Isn't SGU-SLC pretty much a corporate shuttle route for OO?
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
bjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5958 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 15): I think LGU is Logan UT, and - I believe - they have been talking to Frontier about service to DEN, although not necessarily daily.
Once again you are correct. I just thought with LGU's catchment area of 125,000 they would be a bit small. BTW. SGU isn't much better.
"An idea has to be incredibly absurd to have any reasonable chance of succeeding" --A. Einstein
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22719 posts, RR: 88 Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5917 times:
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 17): Once again you are correct. I just thought with LGU's catchment area of 125,000 they would be a bit small. BTW. SGU isn't much better.
That was my initial reaction and, I guess, Frontier's. From memory, LGU was not included in the original RFP for Lynx/E170 service.
But smaller cities were, and it makes some sense. Presently, presumably, any LGU traffic that wants to go anywhere has to drive to SLC?
I don't know anything about Logan, but GJT - Grand Junction, CO - has a population of 55,000 and a catchment area of about 150,000 and they support service to DEN, DFW, LAS, LAX and PHX.
sldispatcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 330 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5880 times:
I think the whole LYNX operation has some distinct value beyond a Wyoming regional operator. Will be interesting to see what happens.
I can't imagine that any legacy carrier would be too keen on ADDING addtional RAH flying right now with turboprops in any sort of long term contract. So they may want them /the operation outright as opposed to contract flying from RAH.
If I were ExpressJet, I would be snooping around (but that sort of misses out on the whole "jet" theme) to see if I could get a deal. Or any number of carriers for that matter.
ridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 915 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5814 times:
Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 5): PIH is building a new terminal as we speak and hoping the old adage "if you build it they will come" will hold true.
Probably not, no one wants PIH. Even Big Sky left cause they culdn't pull any loads out of there.
PVU would probably do OK, until G4 starts running to Mesa AZ and LAX out of there.
Although disappointed once that Frontier Airlines bypassed Friedman Memorial Airport when expanding its service in the Rocky Mountains, the airport's governing board is launching a new effort to lure the Denver-based air carrier into opening a Denver-Friedman route."
They're angling for the E170, but if this new Fly Smart can get their act together, obviously the Q would work, too.
durangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4368 times:
Quoting JBo (Reply 16): Isn't SGU-SLC pretty much a corporate shuttle route for OO?
I can confirm that the only reason that this route gets so many flights is because it servers OO's HDQ. The market can't support the current flight schedule because LAS is only 2 hour drive. With the rock bottom fares out of LAS is makes it very hard to compete with fares and be profitable. OO flys the route at a lost.
JPuentes From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4115 times:
I just gotta say that Wyoming is a big Oil State and there are little to no taxes, so that might have something to do with this whole issue, though i wouldnt mind seeing another airline here in DEN I also wouldnt mind more 747, 787, 380, action here maybe a little more diversity, I'm getting tired of seen animals, blue and red, and BIG BLUE U's and 737s and 320s.
If you can't convince them, confuse them
25 ridgid727: It would be nice to see this whole thing take off and work. I believe the principals in this are very courageous, although not being realistic about m
26 JA: Why doesn't F9 promise to codeshare with them? That would help them get feed and funding?
27 flyorski: Beaver Mountain is the only ski area near Logan, and its one of the smallest resorts in Utah. I doubt tourism to Beaver Mtn would not support any air
28 mariner: Who knows what is happening behind the scenes? The biggest issue, I think, is whether these people actually can raise money and whether any investor
29 point2point: Okay, some observations about a Q400 airline based at DEN. I'm assuming that this metal can have a 700 mile range. Below are the cities that this grou
30 clickhappy: Slightly off topic, but will Lynx be flying to JAC this summer?
31 mtnwest1979: Cody, not Rock Spriongs is the other WY locale proposed. Way too seasonal town IMO. ZK ended MHK a bit ago. only MQ there. Like my list earlier ( FOE
32 mariner: DEN-JAC is Frontier mainline this year. 1 x daily A319. mariner
33 mariner: If I were these guys, I'd ask Sean Menke to get involved. He knows as much as anyone about this sort of operation and with him onboard, they'd probab
34 JA: It depends on the coupon that they want to pay. The problem is that most airlines are barely investment grade and the coupon for BB grade debt could
35 mariner: I'd be looking for venture capital in this situation -- money at risk. Within my experience, there are usually punters out there. mariner
36 point2point: Oops, sorry, I stand corrected and thank you. So with that, here's the range from DEN and the metro population COD......391......9000...... resort/to
37 mtnwest1979: I'll also toss in Minot,ND (MOT). Distance is about same as DEN-BOI, and F9 had Lynx do that route for awhile. Plus seems Minot would like to have any
38 point2point: UA is starting that soon, if they haven't started already. And I believe that they are getting incentives for this service. EKO, ELY, I agree, most l
39 MEA-707: I hope they learned from ExpressJet, Independence etc. that new stand alone regional airlines don't work in the USA. They should fly as feeder, say as
40 mariner: I don't know if this one will work - I don't even know if it will get off the ground - I'm not sure I'd use Independence or Xjet as comparative model
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