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Ryanair Announces 42nd Base At Barcelona El Prat  
User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8046 times:

Finally we have the official announcement for Ryanair's base in Barcelona. Let's see if they finally got what the requested: to do the boarding without jetways.

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/barce...t-announced-as-ryanair-s-42nd-base


Barcelona El Prat announced as Ryanair's 42nd base

RYANAIR ANNOUNCES 42nd BASE AT BARCELONA EL PRAT WHICH WILL REVERSE AIRPORT’S COLLAPSING TRAFFIC

5 aircraft, 20 routes and 2M passengerS P.A. from SEPT

1MILLION SUMMER SEATS FROM €5

Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline, today (26th May) announced it would open its 42nd base at Barcelona El Prat in September 2010 with 5 based aircraft and 20 low fare routes, which will help reverse declining traffic numbers at El Prat airport which fell by 3m passengers in 2009. Ryanair’s El Prat routes will sustain over 2,000 local jobs as well as 250 direct Ryanair jobs among pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

Ryanair will operate 270 weekly low fare flights to/from Barcelona El Prat in an investment of over $350 million in the airport. Ryanair’s 20 new routes will be the first low fares routes to/from Barcelona El Prat and will allow the airport to tap into the low fares market, which continues to grow, and which has so far been absent from the airport.

Ryanair celebrated its new Barcelona El Prat base by releasing 1million summer seats from €5 for travel on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays on over 500 routes across its European network in June. These summer sale seats are available for booking on www.ryanair.com until midnight Thursday (27th May).

In Barcelona today, Ryanair’s Michael Cawley said:

“Ryanair is delighted to announce Barcelona El Prat as our 42nd base with 20 new routes from September 2010 which go on sale on www.ryanair.com tomorrow. Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fare routes from Barcelona El Prat will allow the airport to tap into the low fares market, which is the only market which continues to grow – thanks to Ryanair’s low fares. Barcelona consumers and visitors can beat the recession by choosing Ryanair’s low fares on 20 exciting routes from El Prat to destinations all over Europe including France, Italy and Germany among others. Ryanair’s 2m passengers p.a. will sustain 2,000 jobs locally at Barcelona El Prat Airport.”

20 New Barcelona El Prat routes in 2010 to:
To Freq To Freq
Brussels (Charleroi) 7pw Oslo (Rygge) 3pw
Cagliari 3pw Palma 14pw
Dublin 7pw Paris (Beauvais) 7pw
Dusseldorf (Weeze) 4pw Rome (Ciampino) 7pw
Edinburgh 3pw Santander 7pw
Gran Canaria 2pw Santiago 11pw
Ibiza 7pw Seville 14pw
Lanzarote 3pw Tenerife 2pw
Malaga 14pw Valencia 7pw
Milan (Bergamo) 7pw Venice (Treviso) 6pw

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8001 times:

So what does this mean for the Girona base?

User currently offlineEmbajador3 From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7928 times:

... and for its Reus base?
No flights to MAD?



Flying Together
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7907 times:

Interesting selection of routes. 50% of the routes (10 out of 20), and 60% of the frequencies, are on domestic flights. This is different from GRO and REU, which are mostly serving international destinations. MAD, on the other hand, sees quite some domestic flights as well.

I wonder how long BCN-VLC will last, I think the distance is too small. On the other hand, they also operate MAD-VLC (a similar distance) and maybe they have good results here. But I would have expected BCN-ALC rather than BCN-VLC.

They will compete head-to-head with Vueling on many routes: EDI, AGP, SVQ, LPA, SCQ, PMI, IBZ. Additionally, there will be indirect competition on BGY/MXP, TSF/VCE, CRL/BRU, BVA/ORY.

I'm surprised there is no route to EIN.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 1):
So what does this mean for the Girona base?

I doubt GRO will see much growth in the next years, but I don't think it will shrink either.


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7861 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 3):
I wonder how long BCN-VLC will last, I think the distance is too small. On the other hand, they also operate MAD-VLC (a similar distance) and maybe they have good results here. But I would have expected BCN-ALC rather than BCN-VLC.

Agreed. BCN-VLC takes barely three hours by either train or car. The train, while not really high-speed, is cheap and comfortable. On the other hand, BCN-ALC takes too long by either car or train. Vueling (and others, I guess) flies the route. I'm also surprised by the lack of BCN-MAD flights.



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User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7759 times:

I wonder which terminal will they use? Would they share 2C with easyJet?

User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1907 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7636 times:

I also think that BCN-VLC is very bad choice......but maybe this route is to position a plane for next flight, like they do with ALC-Zaragoza..........otherwise i think will not last very long........

All these routes will be done by BCN base planes but what about other base planes flying into BCN??......


Finally we will see Spanair and Vueling facing very strong competition..........and Easyjet as well.....


User currently onliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7584 times:

Will JK survive another year?

Will this kill any possibility of IB long-haul returning to BCN, as had been rumored? (since Vueling, the feeder for these potential flights, will be very negatively affected)

Time will tell...


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7454 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 7):
Will JK survive another year?

Will this kill any possibility of IB long-haul returning to BCN, as had been rumored? (since Vueling, the feeder for these potential flights, will be very negatively affected)

Time will tell...

JK has two options if it wants to survive: it can go die-hard LCC in point-to-point flights, and thus compete with FR or U2 or it can start building up a network of intercontinental flights to sustain its current network, competing with IB. Neither of those is feasible so I think if FR and U2 establish a base in BCN JK is doomed.

VY might survive a bit longer since it is starting hub operations this autumn and has the backup of IB code shared flights (as well as the IB booking system) but it will eventually be forced to buy/merge with JK. LH of course will just fill in JK's flights with its own planes, so they don't give a damn either.

Quoting joost (Reply 3):
Interesting selection of routes. 50% of the routes (10 out of 20), and 60% of the frequencies, are on domestic flights. This is different from GRO and REU, which are mostly serving international destinations. MAD, on the other hand, sees quite some domestic flights as well.

True, and they are clearly targeting the domestic markets dominated by JK and VY. However I still think REU and GRO, are going to suffer an awful lot, since most of their pax are bound for Barcelona anyways. True, there are tourists that stay in the coast and I don't expect GRO and REU to disappear completely, but as FR moves more and more flights into BCN those two airports will lose flights since El Prat is much better placed to serve the real market which is Barcelona's metro area. AENA is obviously keen to fill in Terminal 2 at BCN, and it frankly doesn't care much about GRO and REU, since they are small airports that can survive with much less flights than what they currently hold (plus you can charge more at BCN).



The only ones I see losing here are JK and the Catalonia's regional government's intentions to build an interncontinentla hub at BCN. IB will eventually bring in long-haul flights to MIA, GRU (which add to AA's codeshared JFK) and possibly EZE and BOG since there is demand for them (and IB cannot afford to lose BCN to *A carriers) but as I commented on another post those planes won't be based in Barcelona but in Madrid, so there will be no base per-se, just flight operations.


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

Quoting Talaier (Reply 8):
The only ones I see losing here are JK and the Catalonia's regional government's intentions to build an interncontinentla hub at BCN.

  

The announcement of the new base in BCN could be seen as something positive for customers, because fares will probably be reduced in the markets where Ryanair flies to. However, I think that at the end it will be negative, because Ryanair (or any other ultra LFC) makes impossible (or at least difficult) for any carrier to stablish a network hub in the airport. I don't know what are the airport and navigation taxes in Spain, but I wonder why Ryanair doesn't operate from FCO, MXP, CDG, ORY, AMS, BRU, FRA, LHR, ZRH, LIS, VIE, MUC, DUS or ATH, but can afford to do it from MAD and BCN. I understand that MAD and BCN don't offer nearby secondary airports, but, for example, BVA is at the same distance from Paris that GRO from Barcelona, and Ryanair is not operating from ORY nor CDG, and the same could be said of AMS, ZRH, ATH or others.

I have nothing about Ryanair, but for AF it's not the same to have them in BVA than in CDG, and here IB will have them in both MAD and BCN. Besides, in both airports there is already a huge competition between the 3 network alliances, because IB (or Vueling), JK and UX are present, apart from U2 and others. There isn't this fierce competition in the other big hubs of Europe: FCO only has AZ and U2; CDG only has AF and U2; FRA only has LH; AMS only has KL... So my point is that Oneworld (BA and IB) are in a disadvantaged position, so, at least in Spain, I could probably see some consolidation, because I think our markets can support so many airlines.


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7102 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 9):
I don't know what are the airport and navigation taxes in Spain, but I wonder why Ryanair doesn't operate from FCO, MXP, CDG, ORY, AMS, BRU, FRA, LHR, ZRH, LIS, VIE, MUC, DUS or ATH, but can afford to do it from MAD and BCN.

MAD and BCN (but also AGP and ALC) have been constructing new terminals and have both doubled capacity overnight during the last year, but no customers yet. With the economic climate, this means that the airports have very much spare capacity and are therefore more willing to make a deal.

CDG, ORY, AMS, FRA, LHR, ZRH, LIS, MUC or DUS do not have so much spare capacity. FCO and MXP had spare capacity after the AZ/AP cuts, and this gap has been filled greatly by U2 and (to a lesser extent) LH Italia. VIE has also seen a reduction in passenger numbers, but they have suspended the construction of a new terminal and therefore, they don't have too much spare capacity. (And OS, being part of LH, might need some room for growth). ATH is an interesting airport, and I wouldn't be surprised if ATH management has at least talk with FR already. BRU has an unused pier, and it's believed that U2 is interested in using this one, although the rumour is already going around for some 1-2 years. (But then again, that can also be said about BCN).

For the Spanish market, next to the overcapacity, to fight the crisis, AENA has offered free landing charges for (IIRC) 2 years for all airlines that produce growth at Spanish airports. This makes it very attractive for FR to produce growth.

Additionally, competition in Spain is fragmented. There is Spanair, Vueling, Air Europe, Air Nostrum; not all of them are able to fight FR, with Spanair and Air Nostrum probably being the weakest links.

Indeed, competition on Spanish airport is fierce. It always has been with 3 network carriers, but now it's mostly a result of overambitious airport expansion.


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 10):
Additionally, competition in Spain is fragmented. There is Spanair, Vueling, Air Europe, Air Nostrum; not all of them are able to fight FR, with Spanair and Air Nostrum probably being the weakest links.

Indeed, competition on Spanish airport is fierce. It always has been with 3 network carriers, but now it's mostly a result of overambitious airport expansion.

Competition will get even more fierce one the high-speed rail links under construction right now start to operate. The line to Valencia is to open later this year which, given the distance between Madrid and Valencia (roughly 320kms), will destroy the market to MAD safe for a couple of connections on IB for the intercontinental flights.

As to the weak links, Air Nostrum is in much better shape than what might appear at first glance. They are very flexible and operate long routes that need small capacity, which given the geography of Spain are quite a few. If FR and U2 enter BCN Air Nostrum will just dump the flights rendered un-profitable (I'm thinking Santander, Santiago and maybe Sevilla and Málaga) and deploy their planes elsewhere. The market for regional flights within Europe still has a lot of scope for growth, and Air Nostrum has a lot of potential in certain countries such as the UK and Germany which are pretty much untapped. With the BA/IB merger I'd expect Air Nostrum to feed LHR from certain secondary airports in Spain and viceversa, with MAD getting the long overdue flights from EDI, MAN and BHX. This is what it's currently doing in France and Italy and with the new CRJ's being introduced into the fleet starting this year longer routes should move into profitable numbers as well.


User currently offlineformigueta From Spain, joined Nov 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6626 times:

It was long commented and expected the FR at BCN, first expected to start this summer season but it has been delayed to the next winter season, mainly due to the hard negotiations held by FR with AENA due to the conditions FR wanted in this airport but as happened in MAD, FR will play the same game as other carriers, but even in this situation, BCN is still a special cake for FR, who likes the game to start a fierce fare competition mainly with VY and JK.

All spanish carriers based in BCN have already studied the financial consequences of a FR base and even a U2 expansion and personally I think JK will have tough times to survive with its actual business model because it will affect directly part of its network. My guess is that only the new owners of JY (the catalan government who also supports FR at GRO & REU with subsidies) could safe the loss-making airline.


[quote=joost,reply=3]They will compete head-to-head with Vueling on many routes: EDI, AGP, SVQ, LPA, SCQ, PMI, IBZ. Additionally, there will be indirect competition on BGY/MXP, TSF/VCE, CRL/BRU, BVA/ORY.

Regarding the routes, FR has selected a mix of national and international routes without the expected BCN-MAD. It will affect VY & JK as well, with more frequencies to popular destinations (14 to PMI & SVQ 11) and daily flights to others as IBZ, CIA, DUB, BVA, SAN... It will be a good start point to check the response of the BCN pax and start again a fare war which produced the merger between VY & XG and it came again between JK & VY.


User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

Quoting formigueta (Reply 12):
All spanish carriers based in BCN have already studied the financial consequences of a FR base and even a U2 expansion

Vueling confirmed yesterday on a press release that they are already prepared for Ryanair's competition, as Ryanair was announcing its base in Barcelona for almost a year. Vueling will not take any hasty decision regarding their operations as they will wait for September and see what Ryanair is really doing.

The president of Spanair, Ferran Soriano, confirmed yesterday on another press release that they are not worried about the new competition and that they are working to provide more international connections for Barcelona (and the Star Alliance network). He said that routes were opened recently from Barcelona to Marseille, Belgrad, Zagreb, Istambul, Tel Aviv and Venice and that new routes are planned for this summer to Malta, Dubrovnik, Nice and Naples.

On another press release, the regional government in Catalonia welcomes Ryanair operations in Barcelona but says that the low cost model for Barcelona is not the main strategy for the airport, and that the aim is to get more international connections (in order to provide better connections for business travellers or for passengers visiting the international fairs in Barcelona). Answering Ryanair's statement about the declining traffic in Barcelona, Manuel Nadal from the Generalitat says that Barcelona was one of the airports in Europe with the largest increase from October 2009 to March 2010 (before the volcanic ash).

Press releases in Spanish:
Vueling press release: http://www.europapress.es/economia/n...barcelona-prat-20100526190948.html
http://www.eleconomista.es/flash/not...mpetir-con-Ryanair-en-El-Prat.html
Spanair press release: http://www.europapress.es/catalunya/...ccion-hub-prat-20100526175928.html
Press release from the Catalan government: http://www.europapress.es/economia/t...o-apuesta-prat-20100526150545.html


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5599 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 3):
They will compete head-to-head with Vueling on many routes: EDI

First of all with regards to EDI. We now have three airlines on the route:
Spanair 5xWeek year round but awful times
Vueling 3xWeek peak summer only with good times (along with SAW seems like a spoiler against JK BCN expansion this summer)
And from winter Ryanair 3xWeek - I guess year round

Now I'm sure Ryanair with a strong presence on both ends of the route and I guess a lower cost base will do fine. Spanair could maybe keep going on the route if they really want to. But their flight needs retiming to 'more freindly' times - these could also allow for some connections at BCN. Also if they could get a codeshare with bmi or bmi baby it could help a little in Scotland. But it's not going to be the nice competition free route they intended when they announced it

As for Vueling I can see their BCN-EDI not returning next summer unless Spanair pull off (in summer at least the route should sustain two carriers)

Quoting r2rho (Reply 7):
Will JK survive another year?

They are going to find it very hard for sure. Their ownership will make it very hard for them to expand elsehwere in Spain at the expense of BCN. They can look for the routes that FR won't be interested in, such as Belgrade. But those routes might become tempting for Vueling looking to avoid FR. For example Vueling flying to SAW this summer. Spanair are going to have to exploit their Star connection the most they can as its the only unique advantage they have at BCN over Vueling and Ryanair

Quoting Talaier (Reply 8):
VY might survive a bit longer since it is starting hub operations this autumn and has the backup of IB code shared flights

Vueling do indeed have IB. They should also do fine since they can move aircraft away from FR competition if need be. Routes like AMS and DME. Also they can move aircraft away from BCN to other bases if need be.

However it worth considering other airlines. Take Air Europa - could they cut back at BCN as they become more MAD-centric. They won't like FR starting BCN-PMI 2xDaily for example

Quoting Talaier (Reply 11):
With the BA/IB merger I'd expect Air Nostrum to feed LHR from certain secondary airports in Spain and viceversa

BA/IB using LHR slots for regional jets - forget it



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User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5543 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
BA/IB using LHR slots for regional jets - forget it

I disagree. Air Nostrum will eventually take over VY routes from LCG, BIO and the likes driving Vueling to Gatwick or Luton to allow for business pax customers to connect directly to intercontinental routes from LHR (and thus compete with LH and AF). AIr Nostrum's CEO already hinted at that possibility in several interviews and I'm sure we will see ANS CRJs flying into Heathrow as soon as BA and IB coordinate their schedules.

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 13):
However it worth considering other airlines. Take Air Europa - could they cut back at BCN as they become more MAD-centric. They won't like FR starting BCN-PMI 2xDaily for example

FR already flies MAD-PMI and the impact hasn't been that huge. Bear in mind tickets for residents in the Balearics include a 50% discount on price (subsidised buy the government since they are considered flights of public interest) and most people would rather fly IB or UX which have much better frequencies than FR. As to MAD-bound passengers, prices are low all year round and most travellers fly with packaged holidays so loads are always high.

It also won't impact BCN-originated demand that much since low-end customers on the route, which is what FR is after, will take the boat which takes roughly 3hrs (not that much if you compare it to the plane), costs the same (or even less) and, more critically, has no luggage restriction  


User currently offlinespantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 324 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

Astonishing news indeed! I can't really figure out how the Spanish airliners landscape will look like in, say, in one year time from now. But I am sure FR in BCN is a kind of tsunami. Between the worst affected you all list Spanair (I agree) and, maybe, Air Nostrum. But I can also guess Iberia, badly affected already by the AVE (high speed train) and the bad reputation (and the ash, and the situation in BA, and the overstaffing, and the financial crisis in Spain, etc).

On a side note: I have been wondering for a while why not a LCC with smaller AC (say, Embraer 190). It is certain that Southwest, FR, Easyjet and others find themselves comfortable with 180 pax AC, but why shouldn't be possible an LCC with 100-140 pax AC? In my last 4-5 flights with Vueling the A320 was always half empty; really enjoyable (3 seats for myself), but what a waste of metal, fuel, FA and everything!

Regards



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User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

Quoting spantax (Reply 16):
Between the worst affected you all list Spanair (I agree) and, maybe, Air Nostrum. But I can also guess Iberia

IB has all but stopped flying from/to BCN, except for flights from/to MAD: the shuttle and flights connecting with long-haul flights from MAD. Now, Vueling is owned by IB, and they will indeed feel the pain.



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User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

Quoting Talaier (Reply 15):
I disagree. Air Nostrum will eventually take over VY routes from LCG, BIO and the likes driving Vueling to Gatwick or Luton to allow for business pax customers to connect directly to intercontinental routes from LHR (and thus compete with LH and AF). AIr Nostrum's CEO already hinted at that possibility in several interviews and I'm sure we will see ANS CRJs flying into Heathrow as soon as BA and IB coordinate their schedules.

But BA using regional jets into LHR would be a major u-turn. (OK it wouldn't exactly by BA, but they are the senior partner in the merger so I guess would have the final say). They never did it when they owned regional operations in the UK and I suspect they would far rather use any 'spare' LHR slots to transfer flights from LGW or to start additional long haul flights. And the decision not to have a 3rd runway makes it even less likely. Chances are frequencies on Airbus operated UK domestic routes could come under threat, so adding CRJ flights to regional points in Spain would just be plain bizarre.

As for AF and LH it must be remembered their hubs have far less capacity pressures, and they have a higher percentage of the slots of their main hubs



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User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):

But BA using regional jets into LHR would be a major u-turn. (OK it wouldn't exactly by BA, but they are the senior partner in the merger so I guess would have the final say). They never did it when they owned regional operations in the UK and I suspect they would far rather use any 'spare' LHR slots to transfer flights from LGW or to start additional long haul flights. And the decision not to have a 3rd runway makes it even less likely. Chances are frequencies on Airbus operated UK domestic routes could come under threat, so adding CRJ flights to regional points in Spain would just be plain bizarre.

As for AF and LH it must be remembered their hubs have far less capacity pressures, and they have a higher percentage of the slots of their main hubs

Bear in mind they are not additional frequencies but replacing one aicraft for another, since VY kept all the ex-IB slots out of secondary Spanish cities to London when it operated the routes before dumping all its non-MAD operations. Those flights are extremely important for IB/BA since they are the perfect way to lure premium connecting pax to LHR that now fly through CDG and FRA.


User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

A quite obvious move on Ryanair's website and on their booking site:

Before the announcement of Barcelona's new base, you could choose the city of Barcelona on the list of destination cities (or as a departure city), and a pop-up window was suggesting to choose either Reus or Girona.

Now this pop-up window does not appear anymore, and if you choose Barcelona as the departure city, you will get the destinations only from El Prat.

For the airports in Girona and Reus, these names appear first and then Barcelona in brackets. For other cities like Paris you have Paris first, and then Beauvais, you would get "Paris Beauvais" or "Brussels Charleroi" on the list.

Actually a quite obvious move. Let's see how many flights will be operated to/from Barcelona with planes from other bases. A daily flight to London (either Stanstead or Gatwick) may be announced as well.


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4434 times:

Quoting Talaier (Reply 15):
I disagree. Air Nostrum will eventually take over VY routes from LCG, BIO and the likes driving Vueling to Gatwick or Luton to allow for business pax customers to connect directly to intercontinental routes from LHR (and thus compete with LH and AF).

I think you're overestimating the amount of high-yielding intercontinental passengers originating from LCG or BIO. Especially, as the most important intercontinental destinations are already served from MAD, and connections from Spanish regional airports to MAD are way better than to LHR.

And if these connections are that important, why on earth would you choose to change a 150-seater aircraft for a 90-seater? After all, VY does also offer connecting flights.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

Quoting Talaier (Reply 19):
Those flights are extremely important for IB/BA since they are the perfect way to lure premium connecting pax to LHR that now fly through CDG and FRA.

I've no idea of how high yielding the Bilbao, La Coruna or Seville are, but:
A - if they are exceptionally high yielding why would IB have given them to Vueling?
B - they will have to compete with other markets for the slots. Bologna, Naples, Verona at Gatwick could be equally as attractive destinations to offer from LHR for example
C - If Bilbao/La Coruna/Seville are high yielding enough to remain at LHR I would expect BA would want a BA or IB mainline aircraft to operate them, certainly not an Air Nostrum regional jet



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User currently offlinef4f3a From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

is this not a sign that fr is running out of places to put aircraft?

They have alienated themselves from establishing themselves in france due to non compliance with french working laws.
They have saturated italys secondary airports and in germany growth has stagnated.

Opening a base when you already have two in the vicinity seems not like the logical move. I think they will be now looking further east as the only place to expand which could be interesting to see how they fare against wizz which is dominant there


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 22):
A - if they are exceptionally high yielding why would IB have given them to Vueling?
B - they will have to compete with other markets for the slots. Bologna, Naples, Verona at Gatwick could be equally as attractive destinations to offer from LHR for example
C - If Bilbao/La Coruna/Seville are high yielding enough to remain at LHR I would expect BA would want a BA or IB mainline aircraft to operate them, certainly not an Air Nostrum regional jet

A- IB gave them to Vueling because it closed all its bases outside MAD and brought everything to Barajas. Operating those flights, even with planes rotating from LHR was difficult given the extremely high frequency of BA/IB flights on the LHR-MAD route. However IB refused to lose those precious LHR slots so it decided to lease them, first to XG and then eventually to VY when both merged.

B- The difference is that BA is not merging with AZ (or any Italian carrier for that matter) and IB has a very strong brand name and FF base in those cities. A base it has been losing to LH and AF over the past few years because, safe for LatAm and the US, pax flying on OW needed to double connect to go anywhere (XXX-MAD-LHR-XXX) if they wanted to fly in J as opposed to a much more comfotable one-stop flight in CDG or FRA. They could of course take VY to LHR (they are sold under IB codes as well) and then BA, but VY doesn't do J, it doesn't codeshare with BA (and IB codeshares on very few of BAs Asian routes- SIN, NRT and BKK if IIRC) and in any case most of those flights aren't timed well enough to allow for connections to Asia and OZ since they were thought of as point-to-point flights. I'd expect nnce BA and IB merger their timetables we will see a switch around of slots to allow for better connections and full-codeshare agreements to manage the flow of passengers under one same ticket.

C- Well, high yield doesn't necessarilly mean a lot of seats. A CRJ full of J and full-Y pax is much more profitable than a 320 full of reduced Y pax. Bear in mind the low-end demand between Spain and the UK is already in hands of U2 and FR, so IB and BA are only after business pax bound for London as well as those flying long-haul routes. Having said this, both LH and AF have several daily flights into BIO for instance full of connecting passengers, which shows that there is much more demand that one could imagine. IB/BA cannot afford to lose those secondary markets.

Quoting joost (Reply 21):

And if these connections are that important, why on earth would you choose to change a 150-seater aircraft for a 90-seater? After all, VY does also offer connecting flights.

Same as above. Again, VY doesn't sell J class seats and most of its flights aren't timed that well.


25 gilesdavies : I disagree that Reus will suffer, I have flown this route numerous times from LTN and is nearly always full of UK tourists travelling to the large res
26 flymia : The train is easier then a plane but the train can get somewhat expensive. When I took it between the two cities for a weekend it was 80-100euros. If
27 Post contains links annaaero : Back in 2000, Iberia and its regional partner Air Nostrum accounted for over half of all the 19.5 million passengers passing through Barcelona’s ma
28 joost : It's quite a "big" launch, starting with 5 aircraft during the middle of the season. Most bases start with 1 or 2 aircraft, and additional aircraft a
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