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AMS To Start Self Passport Control  
User currently offline777KLM From China, joined Apr 2005, 527 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7458 times:

From Dutch newspaper NRC:
http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/article...l_wil_af_van_rijen_bij_pascontrole (Dutch only)
From Radio Netherlands Worldwide in English:
http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/e...ronic-gate-trial-amsterdam-airport

AMS has started an experiment aimed at reducing queues at passport control. From today people with a EU passport will be able to scan their passports at unmanned electronic gates. The gate also takes a photograph of each person passing through which it compares with the information in the passport. The system only works with new-style passports, which in the case of the Netherlands is any passport issued since August 2006. Apart from the European Union it also applies to citizens of the European Economic Area and Switzerland.

What do you think?


Next flight: AMS-PEK
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemckvakk From Norway, joined Mar 2010, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

They've had this at STN for a while. Seems like it works ok. Never been any lines at those gates when i've been there.

User currently offline777KLM From China, joined Apr 2005, 527 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

Quoting mckvakk (Reply 1):
They've had this at STN for a while.

Didn't know that, thanks for the info!



Next flight: AMS-PEK
User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 747 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7395 times:

Also in use at 6 Australian airports for holders of AUS and NZ electronic passports.

[Edited 2010-05-26 03:32:21]

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26787 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

Quoting 777KLM (Thread starter):
AMS has started an experiment aimed at reducing queues at passport control. From today people with a EU passport will be able to scan their passports at unmanned electronic gates

Good idea they should roll it out all over the EU. BCN T2 has it IIRC but it was not working at the time I was there.


User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7230 times:

And in HKG with the HKID...

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7090 times:

It's not like the current passport control is very thorough, so I applaud this action on the part of AMS. Hopefully it really helps the congestion.


L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1825 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6540 times:

I registered for this at CDG and it works very well. Great improvement.

User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2831 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

Any plans for the U.S. to start doing this? Customs at most of our major airports is never fun, even for American citizens.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinestar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6000 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 8):
Any plans for the U.S. to start doing this? Customs at most of our major airports is never fun, even for American citizens.

Global Entry - http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/trusted_traveler/global_entry/


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4671 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5863 times:
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Quoting Kappel (Reply 6):
It's not like the current passport control is very thorough, so I applaud this action on the part of AMS. Hopefully it really helps the congestion

I fully agree with you. Funny though, last Sunday I flew from pier H to the UK. I did not notice anything in preperation for self passport control. But maybe they are equipping the A,B and C pier with the scanning devices?


User currently offlinefilLPA From Spain, joined Mar 2009, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

MAD and BCN recently introduced the same system!

User currently offlinecaaardiff From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Also been at CWL for several months. Restricts anyone under 18 though, which during summer holidays months doesn't really benefit families and the queue's. Also still lots of people without Chipped Passports, obviously this will improve after time. Works well though!

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 8):
Customs at most of our major airports is never fun, even for American citizens.

Except Customs and Immigration control are two entirely different things.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24629 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 13):
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 8):
Customs at most of our major airports is never fun, even for American citizens.

Except Customs and Immigration control are two entirely different things.

Not in the US. Both functions have been handled by the same US agency (Customs and Border Protection) for several years.


User currently offlinenyc2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 662 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Not in the US. Both functions have been handled by the same US agency (Customs and Border Protection) for several years.

Technically they are two entirely different things.

Immigration is to determine if you the person are allowed in the country.

Customs is determining if the items you bring in are legal and/or if you any taxes on the items you bring into the country.

In the US, they just happened to be run by the same organization post creation of the Department of Homeland Security.

Before the Department of Homeland Security was created:
Immigration was run by the Immigration and Naturalization Service - a part of the Department of Justice
Customs was run by - U.S. Customs Service - a part of the Department of the Treasury



Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently offlineB747_A340 From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

YVR has this for Canadian citizens and PR card holders. I used it back in February and it was a breeze. I did notice a lot of people were confused as to how to use them. I don't know if they are permanent or was just to speed up processing during the Olympics though...


God, please save me from your followers!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5171 times:

Went through AKL last month, used it there and was very impressed.

Its still takes sometime, but not much, maybe a 1 minute or 2.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

Quoting 777KLM (Thread starter):
What do you think?



- Costs a lot of money (yours, mine, everybody's)
- Violates my data autonomy
- Has hardly any use against terrorism/crime

=> Should be prohibited.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9089 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4799 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 18):
Costs a lot of money (yours, mine, everybody's)
- Violates my data autonomy
- Has hardly any use against terrorism/crime

1.) real officers sitting in a booth checking your passport cost a lot of money, we even have to pay them and their widows long time after they quit active service.

2.) you decide wheather to use the self control or the regular path. Your data is checked either way

3.) the system is limited to EU and Schengen associated citizens, i.e. Norway and Switzerland. The system is connected to the SIS - Schengen Information System. Whoever is listed will be caught.

Your intellectual jump is amazing - you are afraid that your "data autonomy" is violated and at the same time you point out that potential terrorists might slip through. What about their "data autonomy"? What you describe as "data auronomy" is protected anyhow, since only officers with good cause have the right to inspect your documents.

Leaving and entering a country is good cause and you grant the right to have your documents inspected by leaving your home already.

Az airports, this new system speeds up traffic, cuts waiting time and saves money because less people are needed for inspections, or, ewven better officers have more time to inspect non EU citizens.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4749 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
1.) real officers sitting in a booth checking your passport cost a lot of money, we even have to pay them and their widows long time after they quit active service.

Do not underestimate the cost of acquiring and maintaining those wretched machines. They are actually pretty resource-intensive and cost the same amount as many officers for several decades. The money issue is, in reality, a bit of a red herring.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
3.) the system is limited to EU and Schengen associated citizens, i.e. Norway and Switzerland. The system is connected to the SIS - Schengen Information System. Whoever is listed will be caught.

This assumes that only those with a known record can be up to something. There will never be a sensible replacement for human interaction and the nouse of an experienced officer. I can understand why these systems seem desirable to the public in terms of cutting queues (when they work, and when a useful number of people actually use them on a regular basis), but don't kid yourself that there is no potential compromise of the immigration and customs control here.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9089 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4729 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):
Do not underestimate the cost of acquiring and maintaining those wretched machines. They are actually pretty resource-intensive and cost the same amount as many officers for several decades. The money issue is, in reality, a

you need at least 5 officers for one inspection booth, that is an annual expense of € 200K plus and that does not include the many years we have to feed them while they are on pension. Such machines pay their way at large gateways like AMS, FRA, MUCwith many non Schengen flights. If your argument would be right. airlines would not offer self-boarding gates.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):
This assumes that only those with a known record can be up to something. There will never be a sensible replacement for human interaction and the nouse of an experienced officer

Wrong, the machines are even better, they spot falsified passports immediately, a young border police office may have some difficulties with that. Also, the system is limited to EU citizens only. I am sure you have passed German immigration, you will know nthat sometimes they don't even put your passport on the reader.

Here, it's not like the paranoia system the US have and we are not less safe.

.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4641 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
Wrong, the machines are even better, they spot falsified passports immediately, a young border police office may have some difficulties with that. Also, the system is limited to EU citizens only. I am sure you have passed German immigration, you will know nthat sometimes they don't even put your passport on the reader.

No, not wrong. You may be correct in some instances, and obviously falsified passports can be missed by a human, but then in the UK for example there is 100% checking of all passports by machine and hand so you only get extra checks and opportunities to catch something when seeing a human, not fewer. Obviously in countries where the checking regime is far more lax, such as Germany which you cite, and other Schengen countries, there is an argument to be made in favour of the machines being more effective. However, if those countries wanted to get serious then they would have a 100% checking regime anyway. I guess it depends on the context you put them in. In the UK, they are less effective than a human/computer check on a variety of levels.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
you need at least 5 officers for one inspection booth

?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
does not include the many years we have to feed them while they are on pension

Those machines will break. They require constant maintenance and updates to remain effective. They will eventually need replacing too, and they cost an absolute fortune to acquire and install.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9089 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 22):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
you need at least 5 officers for one inspection booth

?

on a 365/24/7 each control post needs a certain number of officers. 5 is rather underestimated. These guys have an average 30 days leave p.a. , they get training and they get sick. I do not know what the sick days rate is but if you get 200 active days per officer p.a. that would be a rather optimistic assumption.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 22):
Those machines will break. They require constant maintenance and updates to remain effective

I said that it pays only at airports with a high number of non schengen flights. In germany that would be FRA MUC and may be DUS. The same persons that service and repair the passports readers and other equipment such as security inpection can service these machines. No additonal staff neded. Nil extra costs.

I said that the officers who now check EU citizen passports would have more time to check non EU citizens. That would rather add to security.

BTW, there is a system installed as t FRA since a couple of years already with human eye iris scanners. You need to register to particiüpate. This 100% safe. LHR has that at T5 as aell.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4545 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23):
I said that the officers who now check EU citizen passports would have more time to check non EU citizens. That would rather add to security.

In one area, yes it potentally could.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23):
This 100% safe

In terms of positively identifying someone, yes - it is effectively 100%. Still, that is not the only aspect to consider in securing borders, albeit a very good start.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
25 PanHAM : well, I said before that we live in a very secure country. Germany, and that goes for Holland and all other Schengen countries without direct borders
26 brandonfsu05 : This is the reasoning behind the US Program of Global Entry...Netherlands has been added now...members of Privium the AMS equivalent are allowed to a
27 Post contains images RussianJet : Oh, I don't know. On several occasions I have been asked how long I will be in Germany and what for, where I will be going etc (I am British, born an
28 brandonfsu05 : Germany...and the Schengen countries are also in different circumstances than the UK and the US. Some of these bad characters view the UK/US in a dif
29 Rafabozzolla : I've used it in LIS, outbound, almost two years ago, and it worked pretty well.
30 PanHAM : #what I really meant was the series of questions one has to answer on the visa waiver form - like "do you carry guns" - all of these questions can on
31 JRadier : Those crack me up every time! The best part is that if you answer 'yes' to any of the questions you have to see a consulate before your trip... kind
32 sergeant655 : That is true at YVR all ready. when i tried the new machines a few weeks ago half of them were broken and one was not reading the passport correctly.
33 PanHAM : Exactly. I mean, really, I don't mind the question, I wish the EU would ask our vistors a bit more, but if really one of the items applies and requir
34 Post contains images LUPOR1D : They have it in FAO, I remember. I only have the old passport without the chip though
35 ManekS : These are present here in SIN as well for Singaporeans and PR's (not that it's needed considering the regular passport control rarely takes longer tha
36 Thorben : Can I also decided whether I want a biometric passport or an old one? Without biometric picture and fingerprinting? Thanks. Rest of your post I do no
37 Post contains images PanHAM : All you need to have is an ID - Personalausweis. You are not required to have a passport at all. You may have some problems to travel to countries th
38 Thorben : But I want to travel to countries that require a passport. Besides, you need either a passport or an ID card in Germany, and the latter will sooner o
39 rojo : Portugal was one of the first countries in the EU to implement them. OPO has them too.
40 PanHAM : you have to make a decision, either you want to travel to countries that require passports or you leave it. What is your obsession about the biometri
41 Thorben : My decision is: Passport so that I can travel, but without the biometric stuff. My decision was not respected. My new decision was: Biometric Stasi p
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