AMS has started an experiment aimed at reducing queues at passport control. From today people with a EU passport will be able to scan their passports at unmanned electronic gates. The gate also takes a photograph of each person passing through which it compares with the information in the passport. The system only works with new-style passports, which in the case of the Netherlands is any passport issued since August 2006. Apart from the European Union it also applies to citizens of the European Economic Area and Switzerland.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24887 posts, RR: 60 Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6557 times:
Quoting 777KLM (Thread starter): AMS has started an experiment aimed at reducing queues at passport control. From today people with a EU passport will be able to scan their passports at unmanned electronic gates
Good idea they should roll it out all over the EU. BCN T2 has it IIRC but it was not working at the time I was there.
surfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5271 times:
Any plans for the U.S. to start doing this? Customs at most of our major airports is never fun, even for American citizens.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
star_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5194 times:
Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 8): Any plans for the U.S. to start doing this? Customs at most of our major airports is never fun, even for American citizens.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3582 posts, RR: 36 Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5057 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 6): It's not like the current passport control is very thorough, so I applaud this action on the part of AMS. Hopefully it really helps the congestion
I fully agree with you. Funny though, last Sunday I flew from pier H to the UK. I did not notice anything in preperation for self passport control. But maybe they are equipping the A,B and C pier with the scanning devices?
caaardiff From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 180 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4910 times:
Also been at CWL for several months. Restricts anyone under 18 though, which during summer holidays months doesn't really benefit families and the queue's. Also still lots of people without Chipped Passports, obviously this will improve after time. Works well though!
nyc2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 653 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4662 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14): Not in the US. Both functions have been handled by the same US agency (Customs and Border Protection) for several years.
Technically they are two entirely different things.
Immigration is to determine if you the person are allowed in the country.
Customs is determining if the items you bring in are legal and/or if you any taxes on the items you bring into the country.
In the US, they just happened to be run by the same organization post creation of the Department of Homeland Security.
Before the Department of Homeland Security was created:
Immigration was run by the Immigration and Naturalization Service - a part of the Department of Justice
Customs was run by - U.S. Customs Service - a part of the Department of the Treasury
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
B747_A340 From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4384 times:
YVR has this for Canadian citizens and PR card holders. I used it back in February and it was a breeze. I did notice a lot of people were confused as to how to use them. I don't know if they are permanent or was just to speed up processing during the Olympics though...
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7754 posts, RR: 26 Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3993 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 18): Costs a lot of money (yours, mine, everybody's)
- Violates my data autonomy
- Has hardly any use against terrorism/crime
1.) real officers sitting in a booth checking your passport cost a lot of money, we even have to pay them and their widows long time after they quit active service.
2.) you decide wheather to use the self control or the regular path. Your data is checked either way
3.) the system is limited to EU and Schengen associated citizens, i.e. Norway and Switzerland. The system is connected to the SIS - Schengen Information System. Whoever is listed will be caught.
Your intellectual jump is amazing - you are afraid that your "data autonomy" is violated and at the same time you point out that potential terrorists might slip through. What about their "data autonomy"? What you describe as "data auronomy" is protected anyhow, since only officers with good cause have the right to inspect your documents.
Leaving and entering a country is good cause and you grant the right to have your documents inspected by leaving your home already.
Az airports, this new system speeds up traffic, cuts waiting time and saves money because less people are needed for inspections, or, ewven better officers have more time to inspect non EU citizens.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6275 posts, RR: 23 Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3943 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19): 1.) real officers sitting in a booth checking your passport cost a lot of money, we even have to pay them and their widows long time after they quit active service.
Do not underestimate the cost of acquiring and maintaining those wretched machines. They are actually pretty resource-intensive and cost the same amount as many officers for several decades. The money issue is, in reality, a bit of a red herring.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19): 3.) the system is limited to EU and Schengen associated citizens, i.e. Norway and Switzerland. The system is connected to the SIS - Schengen Information System. Whoever is listed will be caught.
This assumes that only those with a known record can be up to something. There will never be a sensible replacement for human interaction and the nouse of an experienced officer. I can understand why these systems seem desirable to the public in terms of cutting queues (when they work, and when a useful number of people actually use them on a regular basis), but don't kid yourself that there is no potential compromise of the immigration and customs control here.
✈ Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ✈
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7754 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3923 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20): Do not underestimate the cost of acquiring and maintaining those wretched machines. They are actually pretty resource-intensive and cost the same amount as many officers for several decades. The money issue is, in reality, a
you need at least 5 officers for one inspection booth, that is an annual expense of € 200K plus and that does not include the many years we have to feed them while they are on pension. Such machines pay their way at large gateways like AMS, FRA, MUCwith many non Schengen flights. If your argument would be right. airlines would not offer self-boarding gates.
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20): This assumes that only those with a known record can be up to something. There will never be a sensible replacement for human interaction and the nouse of an experienced officer
Wrong, the machines are even better, they spot falsified passports immediately, a young border police office may have some difficulties with that. Also, the system is limited to EU citizens only. I am sure you have passed German immigration, you will know nthat sometimes they don't even put your passport on the reader.
Here, it's not like the paranoia system the US have and we are not less safe.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6275 posts, RR: 23 Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3835 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21): Wrong, the machines are even better, they spot falsified passports immediately, a young border police office may have some difficulties with that. Also, the system is limited to EU citizens only. I am sure you have passed German immigration, you will know nthat sometimes they don't even put your passport on the reader.
No, not wrong. You may be correct in some instances, and obviously falsified passports can be missed by a human, but then in the UK for example there is 100% checking of all passports by machine and hand so you only get extra checks and opportunities to catch something when seeing a human, not fewer. Obviously in countries where the checking regime is far more lax, such as Germany which you cite, and other Schengen countries, there is an argument to be made in favour of the machines being more effective. However, if those countries wanted to get serious then they would have a 100% checking regime anyway. I guess it depends on the context you put them in. In the UK, they are less effective than a human/computer check on a variety of levels.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21): you need at least 5 officers for one inspection booth
?
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21): does not include the many years we have to feed them while they are on pension
Those machines will break. They require constant maintenance and updates to remain effective. They will eventually need replacing too, and they cost an absolute fortune to acquire and install.
✈ Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ✈
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7754 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3761 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 22): Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
you need at least 5 officers for one inspection booth
?
on a 365/24/7 each control post needs a certain number of officers. 5 is rather underestimated. These guys have an average 30 days leave p.a. , they get training and they get sick. I do not know what the sick days rate is but if you get 200 active days per officer p.a. that would be a rather optimistic assumption.
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 22): Those machines will break. They require constant maintenance and updates to remain effective
I said that it pays only at airports with a high number of non schengen flights. In germany that would be FRA MUC and may be DUS. The same persons that service and repair the passports readers and other equipment such as security inpection can service these machines. No additonal staff neded. Nil extra costs.
I said that the officers who now check EU citizen passports would have more time to check non EU citizens. That would rather add to security.
BTW, there is a system installed as t FRA since a couple of years already with human eye iris scanners. You need to register to particiüpate. This 100% safe. LHR has that at T5 as aell.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6275 posts, RR: 23 Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3739 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23): I said that the officers who now check EU citizen passports would have more time to check non EU citizens. That would rather add to security.
In terms of positively identifying someone, yes - it is effectively 100%. Still, that is not the only aspect to consider in securing borders, albeit a very good start.
✈ Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ✈
25 PanHAM: well, I said before that we live in a very secure country. Germany, and that goes for Holland and all other Schengen countries without direct borders
26 brandonfsu05: This is the reasoning behind the US Program of Global Entry...Netherlands has been added now...members of Privium the AMS equivalent are allowed to a
27 RussianJet: Oh, I don't know. On several occasions I have been asked how long I will be in Germany and what for, where I will be going etc (I am British, born an
28 brandonfsu05: Germany...and the Schengen countries are also in different circumstances than the UK and the US. Some of these bad characters view the UK/US in a dif
29 Rafabozzolla: I've used it in LIS, outbound, almost two years ago, and it worked pretty well.
30 PanHAM: #what I really meant was the series of questions one has to answer on the visa waiver form - like "do you carry guns" - all of these questions can on
31 JRadier: Those crack me up every time! The best part is that if you answer 'yes' to any of the questions you have to see a consulate before your trip... kind
32 sergeant655: That is true at YVR all ready. when i tried the new machines a few weeks ago half of them were broken and one was not reading the passport correctly.
33 PanHAM: Exactly. I mean, really, I don't mind the question, I wish the EU would ask our vistors a bit more, but if really one of the items applies and requir
34 LUPOR1D: They have it in FAO, I remember. I only have the old passport without the chip though
35 ManekS: These are present here in SIN as well for Singaporeans and PR's (not that it's needed considering the regular passport control rarely takes longer tha
36 Thorben: Can I also decided whether I want a biometric passport or an old one? Without biometric picture and fingerprinting? Thanks. Rest of your post I do no
37 PanHAM: All you need to have is an ID - Personalausweis. You are not required to have a passport at all. You may have some problems to travel to countries th
38 Thorben: But I want to travel to countries that require a passport. Besides, you need either a passport or an ID card in Germany, and the latter will sooner o
39 rojo: Portugal was one of the first countries in the EU to implement them. OPO has them too.
40 PanHAM: you have to make a decision, either you want to travel to countries that require passports or you leave it. What is your obsession about the biometri
41 Thorben: My decision is: Passport so that I can travel, but without the biometric stuff. My decision was not respected. My new decision was: Biometric Stasi p
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