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Delta Now Largest US Carrier To TLV?  
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 12602 times:

With today's inauguration of daily 744 from JFK-TLV combined
with daily 777 service from ATL, is Delta now the largest US carrier to
Israel ?

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 12498 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Thread starter):
With today's inauguration of daily 744 from JFK-TLV combined
with daily 777 service from ATL, is Delta now the largest US carrier to
Israel ?

That's the thing, ATL-TLV is not daily but rather 5x weekly (according to DL.com). I checked the schedules for the Summer, and it shows 5x daily ATL-TLV and daily JFK-TLV. Now the question is which is more,

CO

EWR-TLV 2x "daily" 777s

DL

JFK-TLV 1 daily 747400

ATL-TLV 5x weekly 777



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 12459 times:

They should be the largest(Maybe) for now, but if the UA-CO merger goes through watch DL, UA is gonna for sure put a 744 at least one of the EWR flts

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 12435 times:

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 2):
They should be the largest(Maybe) for now, but if the UA-CO merger goes through watch DL, UA is gonna for sure put a 744 at least one of the EWR flts

I think we're going to see a third flight to TLV, two from EWR and one from IAD.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12349 times:

As of right now, CO offers just under 8000 seats/week in/out of TLV; DL offers about 9500. IN terms of ASMs, DL is about 20% larger because of the ATL flight which is obviously longer.

I am certain that CO/UA will expand further; IAD-TLV makes alot of sense.... but I also fully expect that DL will add a DTW-TLV along w/ several Arab Middle East destinations.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5981 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12285 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 4):
As of right now, CO offers just under 8000 seats/week in/out of TLV; DL offers about 9500



DL has 8322 to be exact and CO has 7980.... 
Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Quoting EwRkId (Reply 2):
They should be the largest(Maybe) for now, but if the UA-CO merger goes through watch DL, UA is gonna for sure put a 744 at least one of the EWR flts

I think we're going to see a third flight to TLV, two from EWR and one from IAD.



While it's kind of a topic for another thread I think your right that UA will add a flight to TLV however I think ORD-TLV might be more likely then IAD.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12197 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 5):
DL has 8322 to be exact and CO has 7980....

your DL number is not correct... but it still doesn't change the fact that DL is the largest carrier in TLV as of this summer.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5981 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12081 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 6):
your DL number is not correct...

7 weekley 744s carry 5642 passengers, 5 weekly 777ERs carry 2680 passengers....8322 in total...

Perhaps you forgott that ATL-TLV, at least per this thread, only operates 5 times a week.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11973 times:
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Has DL seen a decline in demand on the ATL-TLV-ATL flight? I'd think this flight would do very well on a daily basis with all the connections from the DL network.
It would be interesting to see what cities draw in the most connecting passengers. Is there a way to figure this out?


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11858 times:

Edit to add that after further checking ATL-TLV is operating Daily for June.

[Edited 2010-06-01 18:44:39]

User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11850 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 8):
It would be interesting to see what cities draw in the most connecting passengers.

My guess would be: MIA/FLL/PBI

Some DFW possibly as well...decent size communities there.

[Edited 2010-06-01 18:42:36]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11798 times:

I just find it so cool that a US airline is starting 747 services from JFK again. First NRT and now TLV. A touch of nostalgia here.

Back to the thread . . . sounds like we're splitting hairs here. Let's call it even between CO and DL with advantage CO as they are serving the biggest US market from Israel (NYC) with many more seats than DL. 2 777s vs 1 747

Btw . . . all that coming from a JFK fan before you shoot.


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9509 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11788 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 8):

its not daily due to them adding so many seats onto JFK-TLV.......this has been the story of the year for ATL, lost a bunch of seats/flights/citys while JFK is getting flights/seats.  
Quoting United1 (Reply 7):

Because its not 5x weekly.
Not sure how STT got 5x weekly but its daily, at least starting june 1.



yep.
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11760 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

That's the thing, ATL-TLV is not daily but rather 5x weekly (according to DL.com). I checked the schedules for the Summer, and it shows 5x daily ATL-TLV and daily JFK-TLV. Now the question is which is more,

Delta went daily ATL-TLV at the end of March.


User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11718 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 9):
Edit to add that after further checking ATL-TLV is operating Daily for June.

bingo... it runs daily until mid-July.

Which also means DL is running as much capacity from ATL-TLV as ever... in fact on some days, more than ever because some days use the 77L which seats more than the 772ER.


DL's top O&Ds on ATL-TLV are MIA, SFO, FLL, ORD, SEA
For JFK-TLV it is SFO, LAX, ATL, ORD, BOS
For CO EWR-TLV it is SFO, BOS, IAH, ORD, MIA


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11716 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 13):
Delta went daily ATL-TLV at the end of March.

The Summer schedules show no TLV-ATL on Tu and We, go to DL.com and check their timetable.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9509 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11440 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):

Well DeltaNet shows Daily till july. That or DeltaMac is what i would go off of.

As for Delta.com, i see that crap all the time.



yep.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10850 times:
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Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 14):

DL's top O&Ds on ATL-TLV are MIA, SFO, FLL, ORD, SEA
For JFK-TLV it is SFO, LAX, ATL, ORD, BOS
For CO EWR-TLV it is SFO, BOS, IAH, ORD, MIA

Thanks for the information, Wortldtraveler. Very interesting. I did figure South Florida has heavy connections thru ATL onto TLV.


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9908 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
I just find it so cool that a US airline is starting 747 services from JFK again. First NRT and now TLV. A touch of nostalgia here.

Yeah. It is nice to see the markets picking up again....and a 744 is always a pretty bird.

That said, back to TLV.

I am surprised that DTW didn't get a flignt this summer. Could a 767 make it? I would think it would be an effective plane for the route.

Ref DTW - Middle East, same question: what planes? And of course, always the rub, what metal? I believe DL recently got 2 777s, but they are thin on metal till the 787s get into the fleet, no? Or are other double aisles coming in?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9732 times:

I didn't know that DL was going to use 744s to TLV, that's good news...


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9691 times:
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Quoting davescj (Reply 20):

Yeah. It is nice to see the markets picking up again....and a 744 is always a pretty bird.

Definitely! It will be even better once they make the hard product improvements. By chance does anyone know if any of the 744 fleet has gone in for the upgraded cabin enhancements?


User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9587 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 20):
I am surprised that DTW didn't get a flignt this summer. Could a 767 make it?

AC is flying/has flown the 763 from YYZ to TLV. DL's 763s have winglets (or would have them if flown on a route that long).

DTW-TLV is only about 100 miles longer than ATL-ACC and LOS. While many people incorrectly believed that the problem was the 763 on LOS, the problem is the large amount of baggage that ACC and LOS passengers carry. The baggage allowance on ATL-LOS was more than twice the amount calculated for other longhaul flights. ATL-LOS was calculated at 100 pounds of bags per passenger - the maximum allowed for checked baggage meaning that EVERY passenger was taking the maximum allowable weight. When you take out 50 lbs of bags per passenger, you can add another hour of flying time or add back the payload restrictions DL had to take in order to carry passengers and bags.

The 763ER with winglets is more than capable of remaining IN THE AIR for 12 hrs which means a 12 hr 45 minute flight wihtout payload restrictions. That can be pushed to 13 1/2 hrs if passenger or baggage weights are below average... and incidentally, East Asian passengers typically weigh less than European or African descended passengers (that is not a racist statement but basic information on humans) so the 763ER has greater utility over the Pacific. East Asians also tend to take less excess baggage than travelers to/from other global regions.

I think DL's priority this summer is to add capacity at JFK in advance of AA/BA ATI and the UA/CO merger. For DTW, the focus is on building it as an Asian gateway.

You wlll most certainly see DTW-Middle East with TLV high on the list.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9554 times:
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Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 23):
The 763ER with winglets is more than capable of remaining IN THE AIR for 12 hrs which means a 12 hr 45 minute flight wihtout payload restrictions. That can be pushed to 13 1/2 hrs if passenger or baggage weights are below average... and incidentally, East Asian passengers typically weigh less than European or African descended passengers (that is not a racist statement but basic information on humans) so the 763ER has greater utility over the Pacific. East Asians also tend to take less excess baggage than travelers to/from other global regions.

DL does send their 763ER winglet versions on the ATL-TLV route. As I remember this is one of routes, that was going to have new crew rest areas installed. I believe this 763ER (do they refer to these as 76Ts?) sub-fleet were going to be the first to get AVOD throughout.


User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9009 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 24):
DL does send their 763ER winglet versions on the ATL-TLV route. As I remember this is one of routes, that was going to have new crew rest areas installed. I believe this 763ER (do they refer to these as 76Ts?) sub-fleet were going to be the first to get AVOD throughout.

The 767 has not been scheduled on ATL-TLV although it has flown the route on occassion. It does fly JFK-TLV and you are correct about the crew rest cabin and AVOD.
I'm just saying that that DTW-TLV is only 300 miles longer than JFK-TLV and 450 miles shorter than ATL-TLV. 300 miles equates to about 35 minutes of flying time and you could easily spend far more than 35 more minutes on the same flight from JFK due to taxi time. A connection at DTW could be faster and still serve many of the same markets in the NE outside of the NYC area - and allow DL to focus JFK-TLV on the local market.
DTW-TLV is a matter of when, not if. And so are other DTW-Middle East/North Africa flights.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17544 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8100 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 14):
Which also means DL is running as much capacity from ATL-TLV as ever...
DL is down YOY a weekly trip in JUL and two in AUG.

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 13):
Delta went daily ATL-TLV at the end of March.

Even with the reduced weekly departures, DL has the most US carrier ASMs to TLV from JUN onward.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 25):
DTW-TLV is a matter of when, not if.
DTW, though one of the top 3 MIddle East markets from DTW, is actually not a very big market. It's much smaller than ATL, and ATL has many more connections....

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 25):
And so are other DTW-Middle East/North Africa flights

...in fact none of the top Middle East markets from DTW are that big. Until there's some major business ties between DTW/Michigan and the MIddle East, those markets will remain highly seasonal, highly ethnic, lower yield traffic, and/or squashed by the State Department Silly

[Edited 2010-06-02 08:13:21]


E pur si muove -Galileo
25 burnsie28 : 744's number is correct. But the 777 number is 2710 (271 x 5 x 2) making it 8352. DL is using the 777-200ER (271 seats) not the LR (278) on the ATL-T
26 Post contains images United1 : DL is using the LR on occasion to TLV which of course is going to affect the numbers and CO is only about half done with the 777s so I'm sure the sea
27 PGNCS : I'm taking this at face value, but am wondering, does anyone use different standard passenger weights in different regions for weight and balance pur
28 worldtraveler : yeah but it's a whole lot larger than IAH-AKL which we see was just announced as the launch route for CO's 787s. In case you missed the memo, DTW is
29 jfk777 : USair: has a PHl to TLV with an A330-200 daily.
30 Post contains images peanuts : Exactly. This whole theory of O&D traffic making or braking routes may be true to an extent, but mega hub carriers are proving otherwise more and
31 mayor : I wonder if it would be viable for DL to put on another TLV flight, either out of JFK or ATL, maybe just seasonally?
32 worldtraveler : DTW, DTW, DTW
33 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Great, so the intellectual lightweights of a.net are forever going to prove the viability of theoretical routes with ones that have yet to operate If
34 worldtraveler : DL will continue to serve FCO year round from two gateways which will be two more than some other airline. The fact that they add a 3rd hub and the l
35 Post contains images peanuts : Aren't all routes that have yet to operate "theoretical", whether announced or not? Not sure on the "intellectual lightweight" part other than trying
36 davescj : DL serves FCO 2x daily from two hubs -- JFK, ATL. They are adding a 3rd, ex-DTW (which used to be CVG basically). In addition, AZ has BOS, MIA, JFK,
37 peanuts : I believe they already are, code-shared or not. Many SkyTeam customers between the US and Israel connect through AMS, CDG and FCO.[Edited 2010-06-02
38 MaverickM11 : So basically like TLV, except DTWFCO has a hub on both ends. Again, if FCO is problematic, how is a smaller market, with less feed (zero feed, actual
39 deltal1011man : the LR doesn't show up in June at all. DL will likely have ATL/JFK both daily 744s before they add a 3rd flight/3rd city. Atleast Dailys to ATL(777)
40 cokepopper : It was originally scheduled for June 15th and June 29th. Wonder if LAX-TLV would work ?
41 Viscount724 : That's not true for the Philippines.
42 OA412 : Anyone think it would make more sense for DL to offer 2 daily 767s JFK-TLV vs the current single daily 744? By doing so, they would offer only 29 more
43 STT757 : That's a Star Hub to Star hub flight, and makes more sense than DL flying LAX-SYD where there's no Sky hub at either ends. Air New Zealand themselves
44 OA412 : DL has its JV with Virgin Blue that gives it feed on the SYD end of the flight. Additionally, LAX-SYD is an infinitely larger market than IAH-AKL, so
45 STT757 : Has it been approved yet?.. How many carriers are already established and how many seats are already in LAX-SYD? False, I knew 9/11 was going to be b
46 Post contains images deltal1011man : Good for CO. I mean do we have any mods on this site at all? Must be an off day for them........ OA4 no making since. CO is better, just better get t
47 peanuts : Houston's main credit is oil. 'nuf said. Nothing "special' about IAH just cause they may start an AKL flight...lol. Which is exactly my point... Does
48 worldtraveler : Except that the AKL market is a fraction of the sze of the Australian market and all of the connectivity that CO is counting on is dependent on sipho
49 OA412 : Indeed. Looking at the US-Eastern Europe loadfactor thread, SQs flight is in the bottom 5 loadfactor wise. IAH-DME has a loadfactor of 59%, while DME
50 JaxMan19 : How did you find this out?
51 Post contains links mayor : And do you know WHY DL dropped TLV, the first time? Because they inherited all the PA Worldpass members and for one reason or another, TLV seemed to
52 Post contains links OA412 : You are wrong. As mayor pointed out above, the route was flown until 9/11 and was axed after the fact. The route was inaugurated on 6/1/01 and was su
53 cokepopper : Where do you get your information from? The flight was operated on the MD-11 right up to 9/11 JFK-TLV.
54 nzrich : The one thing about AKL has as its advantage is it can offer connections direct to ADL CNS SYD BNE OOL MEL PER and also 25 destinations in NZ . Also
55 OA412 : Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I think that IAH-AKL will probably do just fine. I just think that comparing IAH-AKL to LAX-SYD is somewhat apples and or
56 nzrich : Yes but there are multiple airlines now servicing LAX-SYD and many more with one stop service i doubt its now the cash cow it used to be .. At least
57 mayor : Wrong.......I just obtained these dates of DL's service to TLV: 1st.......start 01 Nov 1991--end 30 Sep 1995 2nd......start 01 Jun 2001--end 30 Sep 2
58 United1 : I found this on another website and as there is no link to the article I am posting it in full. Delta Air Lines on Wednesday said it would cut 13,000
59 mayor : We also came very close to losing any cargo service we provided, after 9/11. DL and three other airlines (I imagine AA, UA and maybe TW or NW) had to
60 FlyBaby : Just wanted to mention that during the time that DL did not serve TLV from NYC directly, it heavily promoted its codeshare with ELAL on that route, me
61 mayor : On the cargo side, when I was there in '91, I was told that no matter what size a/c DL used on the TLV-CDG-JFK route (the only one, at the time) they
62 cokepopper : I would like to know why Delta chose the 744 for the JFK-TLV route instead of ATL-TLV. For competition reasons, the JFK route should get the 777 to be
63 worldtraveler : The decision in the short term is all about capacity, not product. Product certainly matters but the immediate concern for JFK overall is to become th
64 STT757 : What a wierd comment, it's like the Mets striving to be the most popular baseball franchise in the Willets Point section of the NYC market.
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