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AC E-Jet Reliability  
User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6700 times:

Has anybody else noticed that the AvHerald reports an unusually high number of events on Air Canada E170/190's

Does anybody know the despatch reliability of this fleet with AC compared to others?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4758 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Quoting BALandorLivery (Thread starter):
Does anybody know the despatch reliability of this fleet with AC compared to others?

It has been mentioned a few times on here, that the EMJs have the highest dispatch reliability of all the types in AC's fleet. Last I checked, it would change from time to time, (I think it is reported monthly), either in first or second place, (behind the A320 series). That being said though ... I don't know how AC's compare to other EMJ operators.

It is not surprising to see high numbers of reports though. There are 60 in the fleet, and they fly short legs, anywhere from 6 to 12 legs a day ... odds are greatest if there are any 'incidents' it will be on one of them. As opposed to say 18 B777s that fly 1 1/2 legs a day.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6442 times:

Good point but there do seem to be several hydraulic and/or flap slat issues with them don't you think?

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4758 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6157 times:

Quoting BALandorLivery (Reply 2):
Good point but there do seem to be several hydraulic and/or flap slat issues with them don't you think?

I hadn't heard about too many hydrualic issues, but the slat/flap issues recur from time to time. Again, that may be due to cycle issues. As each slat/flap cycle will occur each flight, by comparison you may have 24 slat/flap cycles a day on an E175, but only 3 on a B777.

It is AC policy to declare an emergency with slat/flaps in anything but a normal position for landing. Get all the equipment ready, and make sure ATC is aware of the problem. Landing roll in standard conditions of an E190 at MLW is about 2700 feet with full flaps, that increases to just over 6000 with no flaps. Maybe it is overkill to declare an emergency as most runways are almost double that, but that is policy ... and why you may hear of it more. Perhaps other airlines are not so cautious.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineHywel From Peru, joined Apr 2008, 771 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6066 times:

Wow, check it out!

http://www.avherald.com/h?search_ter...0&dosearch=1&search.x=0&search.y=0


User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

Just looking down that list reaffirms what i'm thinking.

Is Air Canada happy with this type?

I don't buy the theory that you see it more just because they're high cycle airframes (not old, but as in high utilisation). It's designed and built for this sort of operation.

Anything to do with cold weather ops?


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

From a passenger perspective the EJets are great. Any of these tech issues come up frequently at US, UA, or DL for the E170/190?


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently onlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3146 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5575 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 6):
From a passenger perspective the EJets are great. Any of these tech issues come up frequently at US, UA, or DL for the E170/190?

They come up frequently at B6, from what I've heard.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24073 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5292 times:

Quoting Hywel (Reply 4):
Wow, check it out!

http://www.avherald.com/h?search_ter...h.y=0
Quoting BALandorLivery (Reply 5):
Just looking down that list reaffirms what i'm thinking.

About 20% of those incidents involve things that have nothing to do with the aircraft, e.g. bird strikes, ATC issues, lightning strikes, turbulence, blown tire, unruly passenger. problem with a galley oven etc. If you deduct those, that leaves about 45 incidents over an approximate 2 year period.

I would guess each AC E190 operates an average of at least 4 sectors a day. With a fleet of 45 aircraft, that's over 130,000 flights during the 2 years covered by that incident list, or roughly one every 3,000 flights. That doesn't sound high to me. To be meaningful you would have to compare it to other types.

[Edited 2010-06-02 15:27:06]

User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5276 times:

Quoting BALandorLivery (Reply 5):
Just looking down that list reaffirms what i'm thinking.

Is Air Canada happy with this type?

I don't buy the theory that you see it more just because they're high cycle airframes (not old, but as in high utilisation). It's designed and built for this sort of operation.

If I was AC I'd be happy! 14 incidents so far in 2010 and 28 total for 2009. For fleet of 60 aircraft flying how many hours and cycles per year? Thats pretty good.

It doesn't really matter what you buy, any aircraft that flies high hours and cycles are going to have problems. Lets see what the B737 list looks like?


User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

I seem to vaguely recall a rumour from the early days of AC and EMB regarding software issues as well, but I would suspect that these would be in the distant past if in fact they ever occurred at all.


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Avherald is only as good as the folks who submit info...it does not cover every mx incident in the world, so there's no way to scientifically determine aircraft reliability from that site. Chances are there's just a hardcore submitter working in AC maintenance who posts every incident he hears.

User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2796 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3991 times:

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 11):
Chances are there's just a hardcore submitter working in AC maintenance who posts every incident he hears.

Sounds plausible. E170/190s are not mx workers favourite aircraft.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 11):
Chances are there's just a hardcore submitter working in AC maintenance who posts every incident he hears.

...such as "cheesy smoke"   . I'll admit I had a good chuckle before actually reading the article about it. Was it a cheesy-smelling smoke? Did the smoke tell a bad joke? Nah, the cheese melted in the oven.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24073 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 13):
Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 11):
Chances are there's just a hardcore submitter working in AC maintenance who posts every incident he hears.

...such as "cheesy smoke" . I'll admit I had a good chuckle before actually reading the article about it. Was it a cheesy-smelling smoke? Did the smoke tell a bad joke? Nah, the cheese melted in the oven.

All the Avherald items I have seen involving Canada originate from the daily Transport Canada occurrence reports website, including the one about the "cheesy smoke". Avherald often rewords them. The official item quoted below:

According to TSB report #A10Q0030: Air Canada Embraer E190 C-FNAQ under flight number ACA 0931, took off from Miami KMIA headed to Montréal CYUL. While the aircraft was in cruise flight, some cheese melted in one of the ovens, causing smoke. The oven was turned off for the rest of the flight and replaced upon arrival.


User currently offlineAvconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
I would guess each AC E190 operates an average of at least 4 sectors a day. With a fleet of 45 aircraft, that's over 130,000 flights during the 2 years covered by that incident list, or roughly one every 3,000 flights. That doesn't sound high to me. To be meaningful you would have to compare it to other types.

You are "Spot On" Viscount.

I assisted with a project in adding an EMB-190 onto a certificate. In talking to other operators, it was clear in order to maintain a smooth transition you have to maintain a spares inventory. Embraer is not a Boeing or Airbus where they have companies wanting to partner and manage their parts inventory. The industries Supply Chain theories were developed around a Boeing and Airbus. I will predict in many cases Boeing and Airbus participating in the studies if not writing the studies.

The Supply Chain process needs to be develop furthered. This will be completely obvious when the Mitsubishi RJ and the C-series are placed into service.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2007 times:

AC flying E-jets instead of C-series....isn't that considered treason  

User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
About 20% of those incidents involve things that have nothing to do with the aircraft, e.g. bird strikes, ATC issues, lightning strikes, turbulence, blown tire, unruly passenger. problem with a galley oven etc. If you deduct those, that leaves about 45 incidents over an approximate 2 year period.

It’s the other 80% that’s staggering. That said, if you did a similar search for a 737 or A320 it’s probably just as staggering.


User currently offlinechrisa330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 626 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1846 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):
AC flying E-jets instead of C-series....isn't that considered treason

Considering the C Series isn't flying and that AC is a public company - No.


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