Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
OAG Changes 6/4/2010: AA/AM/CO/DL/FL/UA/US/VX  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7030 posts, RR: 13
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12698 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route

Please take it easy on any typos, there was a lot to type...

3E
ORD-BRL 0>2 AUG-OCT
ORD-DEC 0>2 AUG-OCT
STL-BRL 0>2 AUG-OCT
STL-DEC 0>3 AUG-OCT
STL-IRK 0>2 AUG-OCT

AA
BOS-DCA 6>0 NOV-
LAX-ROW 1>0 AUG
ORD-OKC 5>6 AUG-

AM
LAX-AGU 0>3/WK DEC-
LAX-BJX 0>3/WK NOV-
MSY-MEX 3/WK>0 JUL-
SAT-MTY 0>4/WK NOV-

CO
EWR-HDN 0>2/WK DEC-
FLL-ELH 4>5 OCT-
FLL-EYW 2>3 OCT-
FLL-FPO 4>5 OCT-
FLL-GGT 2>1 SEP, 4>5 OCT-
FLL-MHH 2>3 OCT-
FLL-TCB 1>2 OCT-
IAH-HDN 0>1 DEC-

DL
ATL-CPH 5/WK>0 OCT-
ATL-FOR 2/WK>0 NOV- (Prev was to resume)
ATL-HDN 0>1 DEC-
ATL-KIN 4/WK>1/WK JAN-
ATL-LIT 8>7 SEP-
ATL-MEX 3>4 SEP-
ATL-MHT 2>1 SEP-
ATL-MTJ 0>1 DEC-
ATL-PVD 3>4 OCT-
ATL-SBN 3>2 SEP-
ATL-SEA 6>5 OCT-
ATL-TLV 1>4/WK OCT-
ATL-TUP 1>0 SEP-
CVG-GSO 2>1 SEP-
CVG-IND 3>0 SEP-
DCA-JAN 1>0 SEP-
DTW-BUF 6>8 SEP-
DTW-CHO 2>0 SEP-
DTW-CZM 2/WK>0 DEC-
JFK-ABV 3/WK>0 SEP-OCT (Ends earlier)
JFK-ANU 0>2/WK NOV-DEC (Starts earlier)
JFK-MCO 3>4 NOV-
LAX-SAN 7>6 SEP-
LGA-RSW 2>3 NOV-DEC
MEM-CUN 1/WK>0 OCT
MSP-ALB 1>2 SEP-
MSP-BJI 3>2 OCT-
MSP-HDN 0>1 DEC-
MSP-LSE 5>4 OCT-
MSP-MKE 8>7 OCT-
MSP-MQT 2>1 OCT-
MSP-PVD 1>2 SEP-
MSP-RST 4>5 OCT-
MSP-SDF 4>3 OCT-
MSP-YWG 5>6 OCT-
MSP-YYC 2>3 OCT-
SLC-GJT 3>4 OCT-
SLC-MCI 4>3 OCT-
SLC-OAK 6>5 OCT-
SLC-PDX 5>6 OCT-

FL
MCO-ACY 3/WK>0 JUL-
MCO-NAS 4/WK>0 JUL-

UA
SFO-IAD 7>8 SEP-NOV
SFO-OTH 2>3 AUG-OCT

US
LGA-ACK 3>0 SEP-
LGA-MVY 4>0 SEP-

VX
JFK-LAS 0>1 SEP-DEC (Reinstated)
MCO-LAX 1>0 AUG- (No start date now filed)
MCO-SFO 1>0 AUG- (ditto)

[Edited 2010-06-02 12:28:50 by srbmod]

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12517 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MCO-ACY 3/WK>0 JUL-

That sucks, it really does....I'm gonna guess that NK gave them a run for there money on the route or is this just slow and they will start back up in the winter?? Hopefully FL can still keep ACY-ATL alive ughh


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11409 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12513 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-FOR 2/WK>0 NOV- (Prev was to resume)

Okay, so obvious question: if, indeed, this market is ending, what is to become of these U.S.-Brazil frequencies?


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3716 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12468 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CVG-IND 3>0 SEP-

How funny, FWA (and SBN) have CVG and IND doesn't.

Was this related to the new "Leave CVG BehIND" ads? Guess Delta finally decided to stop the bleeding. A lot of CVG-IND pax were from the Cincinnati area, driving to IND and then flying back to the CVG hub, getting (presumably) cheaper fares. Noticed no change on DTW-IND... how will DL fill the capacity?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-SBN 3>2 SEP-

On the heels of FWA-SBN going from 3 to 2 flights daily, I'm not surprised.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX
JFK-LAS 0>1 SEP-DEC (Reinstated)
MCO-LAX 1>0 AUG- (No start date now filed)
MCO-SFO 1>0 AUG- (ditto)

Maybe VX got some ex-DL ORD gates (currently still vacant, and I'm surprised AA didn't grAAb them) and decided not to start MCO. Pending gate availability, ORD is much higher on the VX totem pole than MCO.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4645 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12463 times:

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 2):
That sucks, it really does....I'm gonna guess that NK gave them a run for there money on the route or is this just slow and they will start back up in the winter?? Hopefully FL can still keep ACY-ATL alive ughh

I heard the loads on ACY-MCO were abysmal... I would think ATL would be doing ok since there is no competiion and little network airline service to ACY, but I don't know for sure.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12415 times:

DL CVG-IND going away? That is technically a delta "hub" to a former NW "focus city" route. Very surprising to me.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12244 times:

A bit surprised to see ATL-CPH completely ended for the winter. I was always under the impression that it was a stronger performer, even seeing a 764 during the summer. I think it was 5x weekly last winter.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12244 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL
LAX-SAN 7>6 SEP

This is apparently a reversal of the announced (about a month ago) increase from 6 to 7 flights. They appear to be playing games with this route, just as with LA-SF (and just about every other route in the system!) I personally don't even start to look at DL "advanced schedules" until no more than a month before they are in effect.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX
JFK-LAS 0>1 SEP-DEC (Reinstated)

This needs to be checked; I still see a single n/s r/t (#260/251) in the market all summer so it doesn't appear to go away at all.

bb


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1537 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12175 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4):
Quoting EwRkId (Reply 2):
That sucks, it really does....I'm gonna guess that NK gave them a run for there money on the route or is this just slow and they will start back up in the winter?? Hopefully FL can still keep ACY-ATL alive ughh

I heard the loads on ACY-MCO were abysmal... I would think ATL would be doing ok since there is no competiion and little network airline service to ACY, but I don't know for sure.

I hadn't been following this route, but just looking at the next five ACY-MCO flights...YIKES! Let's just say the passengers will be able to stretch out if necessary. I've never seen five consecutive MCO flights look so bad. ACY-ATL doesn't look fantastic either but it's miles ahead of MCO.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MCO-NAS 4/WK>0 JUL-

I guess 3 carriers are too many on MCO-NAS. A 333 mile flight probably wasn't the best use of a 73G either. NAS has not had the roaring start that MBJ and SJU have had.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12022 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 8):
I hadn't been following this route, but just looking at the next five ACY-MCO flights...YIKES

I wonder how NK does on ACY-MCO, im sure there is a lot of loyal flyers here at ACY that would chose NK over FL but im not certain...


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4645 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11872 times:

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 9):
a lot of loyal flyers here at ACY that would chose NK over FL but im not certain...

I think thats the first time I ever heard "loyal flyers" and NK in the same sentence......



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently onlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1897 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11837 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 5):
DL CVG-IND going away? That is technically a delta "hub" to a former NW "focus city" route. Very surprising to me.

Not all that suprising, it's about time they cut it because, as FWAERJ stated, many passengers were driving to IND and flying back through CVG. People did the same when DL flew CVG-DAY, so in other words, DL was contributing to their own leakage problem at CVG.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11702 times:

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 6):
A bit surprised to see ATL-CPH completely ended for the winter. I was always under the impression that it was a stronger performer, even seeing a 764 during the summer. I think it was 5x weekly last winter.

With JFK-CPH operating, I guess they believe that it will be the more "important" route to operate on a year round basis.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3716 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11380 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 11):
Not all that suprising, it's about time they cut it because, as FWAERJ stated, many passengers were driving to IND and flying back through CVG. People did the same when DL flew CVG-DAY, so in other words, DL was contributing to their own leakage problem at CVG

Checked departedflights.com. Turs out DL flew IND-CVG a whopping 9x daily (2x mainline and 7x Connection) during the hub's peak in 2000. It was still at 7x daily (1x mainline, 6x Connection) in 2004. How could DL have supported cannibalizing its own hub with so many flights for so long?

Also of note: FWA-CVG (still operating for now) lost mainline in mid-1998, about the same time local pax in Fort Wayne started fleeing FWA for IND (in part due to TZ's hub buildup). Coincidence?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11371 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
Was this related to the new "Leave CVG BehIND" ads? Guess Delta finally decided to stop the bleeding. A lot of CVG-IND pax were from the Cincinnati area, driving to IND and then flying back to the CVG hub, getting (presumably) cheaper fares. Noticed no change on DTW-IND... how will DL fill the capacity?

They are adding capacity to ATL-IND by increasing aicraft size. ATL-IND actually gains about 130 seats/day in September but upgauging from a mix of (E75, M88, 320) to (D95, 319, 320, M88, 738)

Somewhat surprised to see DTW-CHO get cut, but it is still well-served over ATL. Similar to LYH, CHO will have ATL-only service, but DTW service can be had out of the region from ROA.


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11146 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
I think thats the first time I ever heard "loyal flyers" and NK in the same sentence......

HA! well they really don't have anyone else to chose from out of ACY.................


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3716 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 11082 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 14):
ATL-IND actually gains about 130 seats/day in September but upgauging from a mix of (E75, M88, 320) to (D95, 319, 320, M88, 738)

About the same amount per day as the 150 seats being lost to/from CVG on the three ERJs. Does anyone else feel that it's not just to replace lost CVG seats, but also to fight FL's recent frequency cuts on IND-ATL?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently onlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1897 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 11047 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 13):
How could DL have supported cannibalizing its own hub with so many flights for so long?



I think the CVG-IND/DAY/CMH/SDF/LEX are hold overs from the days of tag-ons. If you look at a lot of old airline route maps, you can see that routes like CVG-SDF/DAY have been around for decades and flown by a multitude of carriers. As to why DL cannibalized their own hub....well I have my opinions lol but that's another thread  


User currently offlinepvd757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9973 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-PVD 3>4 OCT-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MSP-PVD 1>2 SEP-

This is certainly great news. Its good to be on the 'good' list for a change!


User currently offlineUnited960 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9751 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-ABV 3/WK>0 SEP-OCT (Ends earlier)

So what does this mean for the Abuja market for DL? Are they just forfeiting it and focusing on Lagos, or is there another strategy? I can't really understand this route being seasonal - but why would they front the money on this just to dump it so quickly? A north of 12 hour flight on a 767 has to have some money in it, and I don't understand what the next move is....


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9512 times:

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 1):
That sucks, it really does....I'm gonna guess that NK gave them a run for there money on the route or is this just slow and they will start back up in the winter?? Hopefully FL can still keep ACY-ATL alive ughh

It does not show a resumption, but I could imagine it coming back just for March or FL reannouncing it for December in a couple of months as if it were new. LOL

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
Okay, so obvious question: if, indeed, this market is ending, what is to become of these U.S.-Brazil frequencies?

Those are the ones that were going to US aren't they? OR are they the ones that DL promised AA in the recent Sao Paulo case?

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
How funny, FWA (and SBN) have CVG and IND doesn't.

Are you the guy who speculated CVG-IND would go a few weeks ago? If so, well done.  
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4):
I heard the loads on ACY-MCO were abysmal... I would think ATL would be doing ok since there is no competiion and little network airline service to ACY, but I don't know for sure.

I hear the CEO of FL was on the flight pretty routinely as he must have some attachment to the area. Perhaps that was at the root of the route.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 5):
That is technically a delta "hub" to a former NW "focus city" route.

You mean former DL hub?  
Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
This is apparently a reversal of the announced (about a month ago) increase from 6 to 7 flights.

They are screwing around with LAX in general. I think they are desperate to make it work, but aren't willing to invest in any losses they keep switching things constantly...which is often the best way to insure a lack of success.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
This needs to be checked; I still see a single n/s r/t (#260/251) in the market all summer so it doesn't appear to go away at all.

It is reinstated for the period listed, but always was gonna fly in the Summer. It was previously planned to end, but I never noticed that it was canceled before which probably means it was never loaded into the Fall schedule many months ago. It could be an error. That's the route they launched with the Entourage event. Hard to imagine it going away, but I've heard they are only flying LAX/SFO spokes henceforth.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 8):
I guess 3 carriers are too many on MCO-NAS. A 333 mile flight probably wasn't the best use of a 73G either. NAS has not had the roaring start that MBJ and SJU have had.

FL is realizing the Caribbean isn't as easy as they thought. FL is really not MCO's airline, sorry to say. Flying CAK-MCO does not make you MCO's airline. It's true they have a few good things like BWI, but you have to be big in NYC/SJU to own the Orlando point of sale because that's where the locals are going. NK is much smarter about how to make money in the Caribbean and B6 is much smarter than I'd expected. FL is slow and is probably a victim of their own keep it simple stupid philosophy. International is never simple. Attempts to make it simple insure failure by ignoring its nuances.

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 9):
I wonder how NK does on ACY-MCO

Very well. Similarly to the above point about int'l, NK does a good job of getting traffic going both North and South on that flight which is not easy to do, plus they are ACY's airline over a very long period of time.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
I think the CVG-IND/DAY/CMH/SDF/LEX

I think the logic is that those cities are too far from SLC to be served well via that hub and too far Southwest for DTW (and too far West for ATL). Still they have MEM and MSP to serve them West. I don't really get it. Maybe it's Delta thinking and not NW network strategy.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22715 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9480 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):
I think the logic is that those cities are too far from SLC to be served well via that hub and too far Southwest for DTW (and too far West for ATL). Still they have MEM and MSP to serve them West. I don't really get it. Maybe it's Delta thinking and not NW network strategy.

For most or all of those cities, CVG competes much better for connecting traffic than other hubs. DTW is roughly equivalent to ORD for most itineraries. ATL is roughly equivalent to CLT. By being close (and by being banked and uncongested), CVG provides a clearly superior option both in terms of the time spent traveling and in terms of the passenger experience. Remember that CVG still has service to all of the largest O&Ds from these cities.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineflyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9368 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):
They are screwing around with LAX in general. I think they are desperate to make it work, but aren't willing to invest in any losses they keep switching things constantly...which is often the best way to insure a lack of success.

If this is true then once the cycle of losses returns then DL will once again retreat in LAX.

SAN & SFO are probably tops on the list of first places to cut.

They are nice for connections but are they absolutely necessary?


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8830 times:

Quoting flyingcat (Reply 22):
SAN & SFO are probably tops on the list of first places to cut. They are nice for connections but are they absolutely necessary?

Well, I for one would much rather have mainline DL flights nonstop from San Diego to HNL, OGG, TYO, MSY, TPA, etc., rather than have to connect in LA to get there but, assuming that isn't likely to happen, the LAX flights seem to be filling a need for SAN.

I can also assure you that without a nonstop to the Islands from Lindbergh, after August 1, LA certainly would be a preferred connecting point over the only other possibility, SLC! (And the same goes for most other DL destinations north, south, or west of Los Angeles. Those cities east and far north of California can, for the most part, be reached via other DL hubs such as SLC and ATL.

The only thing the change in planned SAN-LAX flights in the fall means to me is that for now, an anticipated increase of one flight (from 6 to 7) that was planned is not now apparently going to happen. I will be concerned when they start dropping the number of flights below the current level of 6 flights. In fact, to be honest, it kind of surprised me that they had planned to increase flights in September anyway....

bb


User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8429 times:

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 1):
Hopefully FL can still keep ACY-ATL alive ughh

There are rumors of this ending , but we will see.... as for ACY-MCO, there is no way for FL to compete with 3/ weekly when NK is running 3-4 daily. The flight was doing much better when FL had the departure at 0800, before they moved it to 1642... I honestly dont know why FL even tried this route.

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 9):
I wonder how NK does on ACY-MCO

They do great on the route... they upgraded 2 runs to the 320 from the 319, and supposedly 2 of them go to 321's in August.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
25 Post contains images enilria : I get that, but most airlines don't have 6 other hubs on all sides. I would agree its more efficient to just fly IND to CVG rather than fly IND to DT
26 Atlwest1 : When it comes to FL and International, they are learning valuable lessons from each route they try and will tweak as such. The 737 is OVERKILL from Or
27 nkops : I believe the subsidies were for ACY-ATL only.. MCO was actually added as kind of an afterthought. I do believe that the CEO of FL has a shore house
28 yellowtail : So AM Is pulling the plug on MSY?
29 dlflynhayn : Yeah no big deal!! if it was more flts then start crying but one cmon.
30 Post contains images FWAERJ : I am. Welcome to my respected users list.[Edited 2010-06-03 07:44:15]
31 MSYtristar : They could be just updating their schedules like last time. Back in Feb they didn't have any flights bookable for about a week until they updated the
32 Cubsrule : You are making two separate points in there, I think. I'd agree that CVG doesn't make a lot of sense as a hub. It's a separate question, though, whet
33 Post contains images SANFan : Other expressions come to mind but the one that 's printable here is Surprise, surprise! (Thank you Gomer.) bb
34 Post contains images enilria : Good point That explains a lot. With AM nothing is sure until you are standing at the gate and either see or don't see an airplane. Given the past I
35 Boiler905 : Yes and No... Although ORD might be a higher want for VX, and there are PLENTY of gates to go around at L in ORD right now. They have already committ
36 Cubsrule : I think that's right - but can they carry that same passenger through DTW or ATL? Flying passengers through those hubs invites more competition, and
37 enilria : I don't get your point about inviting more competition. If the passenger is flying A to B to C, the B can be anywhere as long as it is along the way
38 Cubsrule : "Along the way" is the point. Unless the passenger would be overflying another one of the hubs (flying IND-CVG/ATL-TPA, for instance), CVG is more "a
39 flyguy89 : I'm guessing that they just made an executive decision. Perhaps they weighed the pros and cons and decided that any benefit gained from funneling tho
40 Post contains images SANFan : I personally don't take a "pre-service annoucement" such as VX's regarding MCO as worth a whole lot. It wouldn't be the first time a carrier announce
41 mah4546 : Except NAS, like FPO which was served by 717s for years, isn't an overwater destination. The 717s can easily be placed on MCO-NAS.
42 Post contains images Boiler905 : In my head, I implied more emphasis on the AND between ORD-SFO...AND...ORD-LAX. Obviously its not an if, its a matter of when. I emphasize the AND be
43 Post contains images SANFan : Understood and agreed. Historically, the odds would say that they will start both SFO and LAX to ORD. Every new city they've started since the origin
44 AVLAirlineFreq : I wondered the same thing. The overwater distance is just under 200 miles, isn't it? How far does a route have to be to be considered "overwater"?
45 enilria : Again, with hubs in MSP/ATL/DTW/MEM/JFK/SLC basically everything is along the way. The only stuff CVG is better for are extremely short stuff like IN
46 Atlwest1 : True but FL has made the 737 there longhaul/International plane of choice. Not to mention the 717 fleet is about maxed out so they are needed for oth
47 mah4546 : Central and upper LatAm? I would not hold my breath on that. First of all the two markets reachable in upper LatAm are closed to new entrants, so for
48 Cubsrule : That depends how you define "on the way," doesn't it? Is there a hub "on the way" on IND-BOS, CMH-SEA, or LEX-DEN? The answer in each case, I think,
49 Atlwest1 : Dont need to hold my breath. All they simply need to do is just tweak Orlando to be a transiting hub more then what it is. They pack the planes there
50 mah4546 : Yes, you do. Just to start, Colombia and Venezuela are closed markets that are not open to any new entrants. But if you want to ignore that fact, fin
51 Atlwest1 : I have never said a thing about Colombia or Venezuela, last time i checked it is a bigger region then that. Also the 737 has the range to go further
52 enilria : If you get some string and a globe you'll see DTW is actually more on the way for IND-BOS than CVG. CMH-SEA via MSP is almost the same elapsed time.
53 mah4546 : Actually, I'm not ignoring anything. Northern LatAm within respectable range of a 73G that has a sizeable market is Colombia and Venezuela, and the m
54 Atlwest1 : I dont really need to get back to anyone about anything. Ill just say the mindset that FL will just add routes from Moline and other cities of the su
55 Cubsrule : If we're talking about time in the air, I'd agree. But except for MEM, every other hub is a heck of a lot larger - meaning greater taxi time and (esp
56 mah4546 : A carrier without substantial market presence in South Florida or New York City, like JetBlue and Spirit have, will not make it in Central and South
57 enilria : I think I'm going to curtail this debate because I think it is spurious, but to say that CVG somehow has a claim to survive as a viable hub because t
58 Cubsrule : I don't think I've ever said that CVG has a claim to survive - you are still conflating the separate questions of whether CVG is a viable hub (we agr
59 Post contains images Atlwest1 : Now that is a well though out post for sure I agree they will never have the Caribbean prescience that say an AA has but I agree with you there are l
60 Post contains links enilria : Another airline was flying Orlando-ACY as charter on top of NK and FL. FL should have approached whoever is running this charter and taken the contra
61 nkops : The SkyKing (or Falcon Air ) charters are only run once a month if that.. they have a contract with the casinos thru Gold Transportation to operate t
62 enilria : If they are only flying a few times per week and carrying as few people as stated above it would have been worth their efforts. LOL
63 TZTriStar500 : Its 162nm from land and requires an exemption. The aircraft do not need to be full over water, but are required to have life vests. I have heard airc
64 mah4546 : I don't know. It's a tough market to crack - Punta Cana is the next obvious choice, but outside reaching resort subsidy agreements like it used to ha
65 nkops : True, however if Spirit DOES go on strike, I guarantee those ACY-MCO flights on FL will be full!!
66 mtnwest1979 : From previous OAG thread pertaining to Wolf Point,MT. Airport runway construction is reason for temporary cessation of service by ZK.
67 enilria : 72 minutes from landing equates to 162 miles including the time to land. My understanding is that the distance and time were set to allow MIA to CUN.
68 mah4546 : Looks like Abuja will be a twice-weekly tag-on to Atlanta-Accra starting in September.
69 smoot4208 : If this is an Air 21 slot, I wonder if we will see DL or other airlines apply for the frequency? I'm sure US would be interested in the slot
70 DAL767400ER : Will it be a tag-on to the existing 184/185 flight, or in addition like the weekly 134/135 tag to Liberia?
71 FlyPNS1 : It is Air-21 and it's also designated for small community service. Since DL is giving up the slot and seems to have little interest in growing DCA, I
72 flyinryan99 : Do you happen to know how many Air-21 slots are available?
73 FlyPNS1 : AFAIK, all AIR-21 slots are in use. I don't know the exact total number available. I'd have to do a little research to look it up as the slots were d
74 Cubsrule : Correct although, interestingly, US has proposed service to a number of cities that I believe would be Air 21 eligible (LIT, PNS, SAV, and TLH at lea
75 FlyPNS1 : You're correct and you'll note some of these cities were also mentioned by US as candidates for new DCA service if the slot swap with DL went through
76 Cubsrule : Correct - that was the list I was working off of (from the original PR), though IIRC US has also applied for Air 21 for at least LIT and PNS.
77 flyinryan99 : Would they have to be rebid or could they just transfer them? How does this bid process go? Is it just a blind draw?
78 smoot4208 : seems like if US wanted to apply for DCA-JAN, that would be hard for the DOT to refuse that. However I would like US to apply for DCA-PNS as they obvi
79 FlyPNS1 : They'd get rebid. If the slots are returned to the FAA, the FAA will send out a solicitation that the slots are available. Any interested carrier fil
80 mah4546 : AA - the second largest airline at Reagan - does not have enough presence? It more has to do with other factors - like AA's lack of presence in viabl
81 FlyPNS1 : Based on enplanements, DL is now the second largest carrier at DCA. In April 2010, DL had 282K enplanements vs. AA having 267K. Not that it makes muc
82 mah4546 : I entirely agree that AA isn't a choice carrier, but it's Reagan presence is nonetheless strong. I think AA could pull off DCA-TLH if it wanted to us
83 TZTriStar500 : Where did this come from if I may ask? Any FAA/DOT guidance or exemptions I have read only refer to distance, not flight time. How would 72 min be de
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
OAG Changes 2/5/2010:AA/AM/AS/CO/DL/FL/UA/ZK posted Thu Feb 4 2010 06:47:40 by Enilria
OAG Changes 5/6/2010:AA/AM/AS/B6/CO/DL/FL/JM/NK/WN posted Wed May 5 2010 20:59:44 by enilria
OAG Changes 3/26/2010: AM/AS/DL/FL/UA/US/VX posted Fri Mar 26 2010 12:50:40 by enilria
OAG Changes 11/6/09: AM/CO/DL/F9/FL/HA/MX/NW/UA/US posted Fri Nov 6 2009 07:41:14 by Enilria
OAG Changes 9/18/09:B6/CO/F9/FL/UA/WN posted Fri Sep 18 2009 04:20:37 by Enilria
OAG Changes 4/30/2010: AA/AM/AS/B6/CO/DL/FL/UA/VX posted Thu Apr 29 2010 12:25:41 by enilria
OAG Changes 2/12/2010: AA/AC/CO/DL/F9/FL/UA/US posted Fri Feb 12 2010 13:55:18 by enilria
OAG Changes 1/22/2010: AA/AM/CO/UA/US posted Wed Jan 20 2010 10:03:59 by Enilria
OAG Changes 10/1/09:AA/B6/CO/DL/FL/NW/UA/US/YX posted Fri Oct 2 2009 06:23:47 by Enilria
OAG Changes 4/1/2010: AA/AC/DL/F9/FL/NK/UA/WN/YX posted Thu Apr 1 2010 09:21:12 by enilria
OAG Changes 9/18/09:B6/CO/F9/FL/UA/WN posted Fri Sep 18 2009 04:20:37 by Enilria
OAG Changes 4/30/2010: AA/AM/AS/B6/CO/DL/FL/UA/VX posted Thu Apr 29 2010 12:25:41 by enilria
OAG Changes 2/12/2010: AA/AC/CO/DL/F9/FL/UA/US posted Fri Feb 12 2010 13:55:18 by enilria
OAG Changes 1/22/2010: AA/AM/CO/UA/US posted Wed Jan 20 2010 10:03:59 by Enilria
OAG Changes 10/1/09:AA/B6/CO/DL/FL/NW/UA/US/YX posted Fri Oct 2 2009 06:23:47 by Enilria
OAG Changes 4/1/2010: AA/AC/DL/F9/FL/NK/UA/WN/YX posted Thu Apr 1 2010 09:21:12 by enilria