Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, RR: 14 Posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8325 times:
For those of you that might have missed it, DL launched several flights today. ICN and HKG were covered in another thread but the new DTW-HNL flight starts today and SAN-HNL starts tomorrow.
The DTW-HNL had a good turnout for the inaugural flight, operating at about a 90% LF. I know that SAN-HNL is supposed to only operate for a few months, but is DTW-HNL year-round, seasonal, or is it also just operating for a few months before they terminate the route??
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8315 times:
Ahem... DTW-HNL was REstarted, just like DTW-PVG, DTW-Seoul (originally flew to Gimpo), SEA-KIX, SAN-HNL and several other routes the big D made a big deal about. Nevertheless, it's great to see these back and especially great to see DLs demonstration that DTW is really the premier Pacific gateway.
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, RR: 14 Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8266 times:
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8228 times:
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 1): DTW-HNL was REstarted, just like DTW-PVG, DTW-Seoul (originally flew to Gimpo), SEA-KIX, SAN-HNL and several other routes the big D made a big deal about
But I also agree that it IS great to see the flights back!
Of course the fact that our SAN-HNL flight ends just 59 days after it starts (on August 1) still has me (very disappointedly) scratching my head; I sure hope some day to find out what that's all about.
Soxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 854 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8154 times:
Great that the flight has returned!
The Delta website says it departed 1h16m late from DTW--was there a ceremony beforehand or was the delay for some other reason?
Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8024 times:
Quoting Soxfan (Reply 4): The Delta website says it departed 1h16m late from DTW--was there a ceremony beforehand or was the delay for some other reason?
I think DTW had WX or something??
Just about every longhaul today departed late: HNL, ICN, HKG, etc
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7951 times:
DTW-HNL operated at least in the winter season of 2004... I took it then. Either way, it's an old route that has been restarted. It's just funny how Delta presents things.
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4978 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7912 times:
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 6): DTW-HNL operated at least in the winter season of 2004... I took it then. Either way, it's an old route that has been restarted. It's just funny how Delta presents things.
It's not limited to DL. All airlines often make a big deal about routes that they are merely restarting. It makes for better PR to say that they are starting a route than to say that they are merely restarting a route that was dropped in the past.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6867 posts, RR: 29 Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7827 times:
DTW-HNL was delayed today due to weather. A strong line of thunderstorms pushed through this morning, causing a groundstop for a period and also delaying departures. Downline delays cascaded into the afternoon.
DTW-HNL 4x weekly is year-round, not seasonal, split with the MSP flight.
worldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7827 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 7): It's not limited to DL. All airlines often make a big deal about routes that they are merely restarting. It makes for better PR to say that they are starting a route than to say that they are merely restarting a route that was dropped in the past.
maybe part of it has to do with the fact that DL has never operated the route and it didn't take the route over from NW.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3384 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7819 times:
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4978 posts, RR: 25 Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7805 times:
Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 9): maybe part of it has to do with the fact that DL has never operated the route and it didn't take the route over from NW.
Indeed. I'm sure that plays a part in it as well. The previous operator of those flights was NW, the current operator is DL. Even though they are merged, pre-merger DL never flew those routes so they are, in a sense, new routes for the airline.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7799 times:
Just for the record, DL quit flying SAN-HNL back in 1995! (Now that's been a while...) So this route is most definitely a re-start.
Could anyone at DL take a look at loads on this flight for the next few days? I'm curious if the already rapidly-approaching "re-cancellation" of the flight is possibly due to light loads (IMO, doubtful) or something else...
I don't know if anyone else noticed this but for a while -- back in April and early May I believe -- DL's summer schedule had the SAN-HNL r/t originating and terminating in DTW as a true, thru-flight (stop in SAN but no change of plane). So at one point, they had considered additional service between DTW and HNL. Maybe they decided the additional capacity would draw away from the nonstop and withdrew the planned schedule...
DLHFLYER From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7781 times:
I really hope that DTW-HNL doesn't compromise MSP. I would hate to see MSP eventually canned for the Detroit flight.
Duluth is a nice city, we even get 3 months without snow per year
B4REAL From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7644 times:
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 1): Ahem... DTW-HNL was REstarted, just like DTW-PVG, DTW-Seoul (originally flew to Gimpo), SEA-KIX, SAN-HNL and several other routes the big D made a big deal about.
DL is the best at making old routes re-started sound totally new and as if they are the first airline to ever consider the route. Somewhat of a distinction I guess.
Those who fly it see right through it. This feels to me like going to a wedding that you know will end in divorce in that you may see a route added that you know won't last. DL are notorious now for science experiment routes, so I think we should set up a line in Vegas to see which ones stick.
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7592 times:
It already does compromise the MSP flight. They've cut 3 frequencies from MSP and added it to DTW. IMO putting smaller gaged a/c and running them both daily is the best case scenario for all customers. Take that 333 and replace a 763 with it. Then allocate another 763 (from desert or current operations) and send it on one of the two. That's obviously a bigger increase in seats than they probably want, but it would seem to spread things out a little more. Heck, you could even throw the 763 on ATL-HNL and really leverage all 3 hubs, plus the 763 from SLC. It's only an increase in about 50 seats per day by spreading it out. Replacing 2 333s with 3 763s and allocating the more premium product to routes that probably warrant it more, seems to make the most sense. But again, I don't get to see the data.
Also... let's hope now that MSP-CDG is involved in the AF/DL JV it will be year round daily service. I find it hard to believe MSP can't sustain year round CDG service!
n7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1491 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7380 times:
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 15): It already does compromise the MSP flight. They've cut 3 frequencies from MSP and added it to DTW. IMO putting smaller gaged a/c and running them both daily is the best case scenario for all customers. Take that 333 and replace a 763 with it. Then allocate another 763 (from desert or current operations) and send it on one of the two. That's obviously a bigger increase in seats than they probably want, but it would seem to spread things out a little more. Heck, you could even throw the 763 on ATL-HNL and really leverage all 3 hubs, plus the 763 from SLC. It's only an increase in about 50 seats per day by spreading it out. Replacing 2 333s with 3 763s and allocating the more premium product to routes that probably warrant it more, seems to make the most sense. But again, I don't get to see the data.
Northwest did pretty well financially running the 333 MSP-HNL in part due to the paid upgrades and people's thirst for burning mileage for upgrades, at least that's what I learned from Building A a few years ago. Recently Richard Anderson commented to pilots that the 744 made a killing the winter it ran ATL-HNL.
And speaking on behalf of certainly 99% of the Diamond Medallions who make sure they fly ATL/MSP-HNL every year for the better first class experience of the 333/744 - if they downgrade to a crappy domestic 763, I'll be be pissed.
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7065 times:
The product to HNL on the NWA 330 was worh burning miles for, paying for and worth buying an upgrade for. Snce DL has taken over the product isn't anything special. Only a mai tai seperates the Hawaii service from normal domestic service. If a 763 was on those routes at the moment the seats would be the only difference and even those are going to be changing for the better soon. I'd rather see daily, consistent service than a bigger plane.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8770 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7024 times:
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 17): Only a mai tai seperates the Hawaii service from normal domestic service.
It's still slightly enhanced - there are still ice cream sundaes in BusinessElite, and there is the full BE duvet/pillow set instead of the domestic ones that immediately go in the seat pocket in front of me when on a domestic F plane.
Definitely nowhere near full BE service (especially with regards to meal service), but still ahead of what I'd get on a typical domestic flight. I've found if anything, service is about the same as the JFK-LAX/SFO BusinessElite service on the 757s.
dlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5484 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 12): Could anyone at DL take a look at loads on this flight for the next few days? I'm curious if the already rapidly-approaching "re-cancellation" of the flight is possibly due to light loads (IMO, doubtful) or something else
The first three days in both direction's look full in coach,but first class is empty which is pretty normal for Hawaii flts.
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5185 times:
I forgot about the duvet and pillow and the ice cream. Still, the service is domestic FC with minor tweaks. It still falls WAY short of what NWA offered or what CO currently offers.
worldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4977 times:
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 20): I forgot about the duvet and pillow and the ice cream. Still, the service is domestic FC with minor tweaks. It still falls WAY short of what NWA offered or what CO currently offers.
once again, given that the fares are so much lower than what BE routes deliver, this is to be expected. I would presume that FA staffing is lighter on Hawaii routes than where full BE is offered.... anyone know?
It still argues that if any airline uses a Business class equipped aircraft to Hawaii, it should be because of performance/range reasons. Only if there is no other way to serve the route, then a business class equpped aircraft should be used.
There are far better and more profitable ways to use an aircraft w/ a premium configured cabin.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4767 times:
Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 19): The first three days in both direction's look full in coach,but first class is empty which is pretty normal for Hawaii flts.
Thank you for checking. Nice to see it's starting out well.
I wonder if they are planning any kind of hoopla for the "re-inauguration" of the route at SAN this afternoon? It seems sort of silly to do anything for such a temporary flight...
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4675 times:
Exactly... since DL isn't going to do anything special with the long haul Hawaii service, it won't be a product people are willing to pay for or use miles for just to have an international configured airplane. NWA used to charge higher prices for the nonstop because you got a better product. Now, there's very little to define these flights. This is why I propose they pull the 2 333s off the MSP/DTW-HNL and ATL-HNL flights and replace them with domestic configured 767s, like the ones used for SLC-HNL and the 1 LAX-HNL. That would free up 2 333s for international service where there is a product that will draw the premium traveler and properly priced Y tickets. It would also allow them to go daily MSP/DTW-HNL using smaller gage more appropriately configured for Hawaii service.
Right now there are 6,006 seats/week from the "long haul" hubs to HNL (SLC, MSP, DTW and ATL.) If they spread things out a bit, using the 76P configuration, they could offer daily service from all the hubs, offering a consistent product while increasing capacity slightly into the market, by about 1300 seats/week. Perhaps that's too many seats to HNL and not worth the costs. I don't know... maybe they run into range issues as well from ATL. There's obviously a reason why they do what they do. I just miss the consistency of NWA schedules, their predictability and their "we need to do as close to daily" as possible mentality.
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4507 times:
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 23): This is why I propose they pull the 2 333s off the MSP/DTW-HNL and ATL-HNL flights and replace them with domestic configured 767s, like the ones used for SLC-HNL and the 1 LAX-HNL.
First, DL only has 4x ETOPS-capable 763A's that are already used on SLC-HNL, LAX-HNL, and seasonal OGG flights.
Second, I don't think a 763A could make a 10:00+ blocktime flight, at least with the heavy configuration DL has them in as well as the significant amount of cargo that DL carries to Hawaii.
25 azjubilee: They don't have to use one of them on the LAX-HNL flight. The 753 is probably better suited for the wes coast-Hawaii flights anyhow. Even if they left
26 MSPNWA: Fare are not lower in all areas. For example I was comparing MSP-AMS/HNL in the front cabin in August, and I found days where it was the same price f
27 azjubilee: I guess DL is assuming most people on the DTW and MSP flights are connections, so the O&D passengers aren't as much of a priority. Passengers maki
28 Sean-SAN-: There is another reason A330's are being used on these routes that people haven't discussed yet. The A330 pilots usually continue on to KIX or NRT as
29 Transpac787: No, AA has the same configuration of 30J/191Y on their 763's across the entire fleet. Those birds that run ORD-HNL and DFW-HNL are internationally co
30 Jsquared: So is ATL-HNL on the 744 coming back in the future? Or are the 744s all tied up on other international routes?
31 SANFan: SAN-HNL left the mainland on time today and is expected in HNL OT. And I assume, thanks to dlflynhayn in Reply 19, it was full. Can't hope for much mo
32 MPDPilot: Perhaps someone could explain this "large" gap in service? Also if the fares are very similar why would DL need to adjust the service wouldn't it sug
33 DocLightning: Was it nonstop? I didn't think a DC10-30 could do that flight nonstop. As it happens, the great circle route passes almost directly over SFO, so I do
34 SESGDL: The DC-10-30 has the longest range of all the DC-10s, it made DTW-HNL nonstop with no problems. Jeremy
35 Transpac787: Yea, the DC10-30 could be remarkably long-ranged. DTW-HNL is just a bit shorter than PDX-NRT and quite a bit shorter than SFO-NRT, both of which the
36 worldtraveler: I don't disagree with you but those 4 763s do not have the fuel tanks to make ATL-HNL nonstop.... they do have the engines and it would seem that fre
37 lax777lr: And don't forget CO flying EWR-HNL on the DC-10-30, UA (and AA I think) operating ORD-HNL on the DC-10-30 as well. Great airplane with outstanding ra
38 timf: The SAN-HNL aircraft is only being operated by a 75V brought in from ATL for this week. Starting next week with the new schedule, it will be a 75J wi
39 dlflynhayn: Almost full it left with 13 empty seats...
40 SANFan: Thanks for the updates guys. Only 57 more days to worry about; it's a bit like Lost -- it's kind of weird to know when the end is coming... bb
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From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, 
But I also agree that it IS great to see the flights back!
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