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AC Starts YUL-ATH Today 6/3  
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5173 times:

Hi everyone,


AC starts there new route YUL-ATH today with there Non-XM 763's with the comfort plus cabins up front(old business class seats). Good to see AC adding more transatlantic flights from Montreal, way to go YUL! What are your thoughts about this route?


EwRkId

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

It is going to be mostly VFR and tourism traffic - will be packed but not much of a business high yielding traffic.

Last summer, I flew ATH-PHL on US and there were so many passengers holding Canadian passports around our seats and most were speaking French, so AC will generate decent $$ given than Olympic is no longer operating this route,


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

AC is also starting YYZ-BCN today, YUL-BCN tommorow, and YYZ-ATH on Sunday.

These are being flown with 244 seaters, knowing that these markets are better suited for overall volume rather than yield.


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5112 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 1):
It is going to be mostly VFR and tourism traffic - will be packed but not much of a business high yielding traffic.

Yup, exactly that explains the reason for putting the 763 with the old seats both in economy and business class, with a larger economy cabin(223) vs (187) in the XM 763's


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4845 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5027 times:

Nice to see these routes get off the ground but I have to be honest I would hate to fly that long on non XM-ed metal. Also starting this month: Copenhagen on June 24 and Brussels on the 12th.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

These routes are being flown with the 3 ex-KQ 763s picked up not long ago. I am not sure how long they will remain with AC. Probably a good way to evaluate route potential, as XM'd 763s are valuable commodities. Looking forward, if the routes are doing OK, likely 787 candidates.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2198 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Am I correct that these are the 4 door aircraft versus the 2 door plus overwing emergency exits? These were also the former power by the hour aircraft as well?

User currently offlinedc10srule From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

Speaking to an AC 767 pilot recently - and he was concerned about how TIGHT the 767 rotations are going to be around YYZ this summer with all of the new routes.

On a related note, I recently saw a statistic on Travelocity that showed very poor on-time performance for many of the LATER evening AC International 767 departures (GRU, SCL, TLV - around 30% on time) Despite adding 3 767s, I don't expect much improvement on the on-time figures during the summer. The other risk that concerns me for the later flights is that if one of the NON-XM aircraft have a mechanical problem, AC might sub in an XM'd aircraft and move the NON-XM'd airframe to a route that wouldn't normally get it. I flew to GRU 2 years ago when virtually all 767s were refurbed and - of course - I got one of the old Asiana birds. Having 2 very different interior configs must be a real challenge for dispatch / route planners during times of mechanical problems and aircraft swaps. Hope I don't get shafted again this summer (YYZ-GRU in August).

Take Care!
JA



Giggity-Giggity..!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4537 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 6):
Am I correct that these are the 4 door aircraft versus the 2 door plus overwing emergency exits? These were also the former power by the hour aircraft as well?

I believe so.

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 7):
On a related note, I recently saw a statistic on Travelocity that showed very poor on-time performance for many of the LATER evening AC International 767 departures (GRU, SCL, TLV - around 30% on time) Despite adding 3 767s, I don't expect much improvement on the on-time figures during the summer. The other risk that concerns me for the later flights is that if one of the NON-XM aircraft have a mechanical problem, AC might sub in an XM'd aircraft and move the NON-XM'd airframe to a route that wouldn't normally get it. I flew to GRU 2 years ago when virtually all 767s were refurbed and - of course - I got one of the old Asiana birds. Having 2 very different interior configs must be a real challenge for dispatch / route planners during times of mechanical problems and aircraft swaps. Hope I don't get shafted again this summer (YYZ-GRU in August).

Wondering if the poor OT performance is a function of:

a) not enough ground crew to handle the load; and
b) insufficient time to properly groom and provision a/c ??



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4496 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 5):
These routes are being flown with the 3 ex-KQ 763s picked up not long ago.

AC has had those 3 767-3YOs quite a while, all leased I believe. The first one arrived 8 years ago, ex-Spanair, and the other two have been part of AC's fleet for 5 years, both originally leased for varying periods by OZ/IB/KQ. The're the aircraft with the extra doors.


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

Both ATH and BCN are huge cruising ports, so it's clear AC is going after contracts from tour operators.

User currently offlinecayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

The seat I could manage, but if I were in economy clas I would really miss the personal video screen especially that long haul. You get used to it and even on short leg domestic flights if system is down I miss it. But I imagine the cost of XMing those a/c was not feasible given their intended use and expected time in service remaining with AC. Glad to see they are underway from both YUL and YYZ hopefully it's a money maker for them.

User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4175 times:

Speaking of ATH, what's the latest on Aegean Airlines joining *A? I was under the impression they would be joining, but when? It's a little surprising to see that Air Canada and Aegean don't even have an interline ticketing or baggage agreement at this time. Thought it would have been worked out by now.

User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4127 times:

BCN is the only other non-xm 763 route right? YUL-BRU is flown with an xm-ed 763 no?

User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4082 times:

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 13):
BCN is the only other non-xm 763 route right? YUL-BRU is flown with an xm-ed 763 no?

Partially correct. YUL-BRU will be the XMd plane. The 3rd non-XMd plane will be used on the YYZ-DUB route.


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

First of all, congrats to Air Canada and ATH! As a Greek who has lived in Canada and flew OA between YUL and ATH many times (from the late 80s until recently), I was really disappointed when Olympic dropped its long-haul operations. These new AC services make up for that loss. It will sure be nice to have AC here 6 times a week.

I think the new routes to ATH will do fine. As a matter of fact, I know someone who will be on the flight from YUL to ATH next Monday ("business" class). OA had very good loads and pretty decent yields during the summer months on their flights to Canada (apparently YYZ was a somewhat better performer) so AC should do just fine. There is a sizable Greek population in Canada (around 85.000 in Greater Montreal and 100.000+ in Greater Toronto) and Greece is also a popular destination for Canadians. I also assume AC will benefit from the Aegean/Olympic merger and Star membership.
Air Transat has also been flying to ATH from YYZ and YUL for several years (two weekly each, seasonal of course) and is also adding a weekly flight from YVR this summer (via FCO), that must mean something.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 12):
Speaking of ATH, what's the latest on Aegean Airlines joining *A? I was under the impression they would be joining, but when? It's a little surprising to see that Air Canada and Aegean don't even have an interline ticketing or baggage agreement at this time. Thought it would have been worked out by now.

Aegean is scheduled to join Star on June 30th. Apparently they have been sending out new Star-branded frequent-flyer cards and the old ones won't be valid after June 29th. This is from their website: "Finally, please note that the new Miles&Bonus - Star Alliance branded cards will be valid from June, 30th 2010 onwards, while all cards that do not have the Star Alliance logo incorporated will not be valid and accepted from that time onwards." ( http://en.aegeanair.com/milesandbonu...ils.aspx?neo=757&codes=newsmnb )

As far as your second question is concerned, I have to say it's a mystery to me as well. The Greek authorities have granted Aegean the right to codeshare on the AC flights starting June 3rd so the two airlines have probably not reached an agreement yet. I suppose a codeshare deal on Aegean flights to major domestic destinations (SKG, HER, RHO, CFU, etc.) and LCA would greatly help AC so they're probably working on it.


User currently offlineJMA777 From UK - England, joined Jun 2010, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

I always love seeing these AC seasonal pond hops that they announce yearly.

As someone that has flown many times with AC on their 763 fleet, I'm a real fan of both the XM'd and old versions of their interior. From the average passenger's perspective there isn't that much difference in cattle class between XM and old variant.



Josh
User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3639 times:

Quoting Talaier (Reply 10):
Both ATH and BCN are huge cruising ports

CPH is as well.



Future flights: CPH-BRU; CPH-NRT-MNL; MNL-PVG-CPH; CPH-LAX
User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 14):
YUL-BRU will be the XMd plane

So BRU gets the premium cabin configuration, probably because AC are expecting quite a lot from the new route to BRU and the connections it is going to offer on SN. How are the loads looking? Does BRU offer anything FRA/MUC can't? Maybe shorter travel times to secondary French and Spanish airports.... or are there really that many Canadians heading to Africa through BRU?

How many seats are on the plane to BRU then, because all the talk about the 2 different versions have confused me now....


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 7):
The other risk that concerns me for the later flights is that if one of the NON-XM aircraft have a mechanical problem, AC might sub in an XM'd aircraft and move the NON-XM'd airframe to a route that wouldn't normally get it.

I'd think the other way around is a greater risk: if a fully-booked non-XM'd aircraft gets replaced by an XM'd aircraft: it's great for the pax who can fly, but you have a risk of leaving up to 56 passengers behind.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 2):
These are being flown with 244 seaters, knowing that these markets are better suited for overall volume rather than yield.
Quoting EwRkId (Reply 3):
Yup, exactly that explains the reason for putting the 763 with the old seats both in economy and business class, with a larger economy cabin(223) vs (187) in the XM 763's

Looking at the seat maps, it looks like AC has 4 versions of 767:
Layout 1 (XM): 24C 187Y
Layout 2 (XM): 24C 187Y (slightly different galley configuration)
Layout 3 (XM): 25C 166Y (what's that green colored space in the back of the plane??)
Layout 4 (non-XM): 24C 223Y

AFAIK, on the Non-XM planes, the C seats are sold as a kind of economy extra, with a fixed surcharge.

Quoting slz396 (Reply 18):
How many seats are on the plane to BRU then, because all the talk about the 2 different versions have confused me now....

Well, as there are 4 different versions, you might be even more confused   But as YUL-BRU is scheduled to use the XM-aircraft, they are either 24C 187Y or 25C 166Y.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/b767-300erxm.html


User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3371 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 19):
But as YUL-BRU is scheduled to use the XM-aircraft, they are either 24C 187Y or 25C 166Y.

I've been doing some reading of the SN and AC press releases and they constantly talk about a 211-seat plane, with 24 'beds', so I take it it is indeed a refurbished plane that will be sent to BRU, with 187 Y seats then...

What do they use the 166 Y seating 767 planes on? And how come they have 21 seats less for only 1 extra C seat???


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Quoting slz396 (Reply 20):
What do they use the 166 Y seating 767 planes on? And how come they have 21 seats less for only 1 extra C seat???

That I wonder too. When you look at the seat maps in the link I posted, you'll find that there is "something" pretty large, colored green, taking up lot's of space, both in the front of the fuselage as well as in the rear. Layout 4 has something similar, albeit much smaller.

It's certainly not a galley (when you compare layout 3 with 2 or 1, you'll find that they have about as much galley space) nor are they bathrooms. SeatExpert says it's a crew rest, which might be possible of course.

http://seatexpert.com/seatmap/382/Air_Canada_Boeing_767-300ER/

But then I wonder: are these used on particularly long routes? Or do the other 767's feature overhead crew rests (are they even possible on the 767?)

[Edited 2010-06-04 03:21:50]

User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 1):
It is going to be mostly VFR and tourism traffic - will be packed but not much of a business high yielding traffic.

I'm guessing VFR in this context does not mean "Visual Flight Rules." What does this TLA stand for?



...are we there yet?
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting flylku (Reply 22):

I'm guessing VFR in this context does not mean "Visual Flight Rules." What does this TLA stand for?

Visiting Friends & Relatives. (ethnic traffic).


User currently offlinebeechnut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 719 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 4):
Nice to see these routes get off the ground but I have to be honest I would hate to fly that long on non XM-ed metal. Also starting this month: Copenhagen on June 24 and Brussels on the 12th.

YOWza

I'm old enough to remember when the in-flight entertainment in Y consisted of watching the cute stewardess (notice I didn't say "flight attendant") do the safety demo, and then a good book for the rest of the flight  

Somehow I managed to survive quite a few transcons and transoceanic flights on that diet 

Beech


25 slz396 : Hey, believe it or not, but quite a few profitable airlines seem to cope with having no IFE on long haul economy; LH being the most known, although th
26 YOWza : True enough, but let's not forget drinkies were free back then to keep the boredom in check. YOWza
27 slz396 : Aren't drinks free on AC intercontinental flights then????
28 YOWza : They're still free but I find that the frequency and willingness of service has, let's say, taken a nose dive. YOWza
29 ac888yow : So would I, which is a reason why I'll never fly this route. Rest assured though that the vast majority of people flying this route either a) don't g
30 discoverCSG : Interesting... I think there's a good reason why, in a stretched-thin fleet environment, these flights have such a poor on-time record: A flight to E
31 chrisa330 : There are 4 of these B763s in the fleet and they have main deck crew rests for both cabin and flight deck crew (the green you see on the maps). The e
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