DAL7e7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 357 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3802 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Personally I'm neither enthused nor have high hopes for the route on a large MD-80.
Allegiant just lost their VP of planning, I would imagine that we will see a different approach (perhaps one that is less conservative) as it comes to their network. That worries me, especially considering the 757s due to come online.
DAL7e7 is wondering... Do pilots take crash courses?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22865 posts, RR: 87 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3706 times:
Quoting DAL7e7 (Reply 1): Allegiant just lost their VP of planning, I would imagine that we will see a different approach (perhaps one that is less conservative) as it comes to their network.
Is there any background to that - why he (she?) left?
mtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2141 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3693 times:
Well, I am glad SCK got some SoCal service, but to LGB? Reminds me when WestAir/UA Exp flew SNA-SCK n/s. Wonder how those did?
RJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1168 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3685 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Personally I'm neither enthused nor have high hopes for the route on a large MD-80.
I'm not either!
Are there that many folks wanting Disneyland packages 5 times a week from Stockton ? Allegiatn seems to be getting into more markets that arent"t just an automatic vacation package destination ! and require a better distribution outlet outsided of their own website!
mtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2141 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3631 times:
I see its routed LAS-SCK-LGB-SCK-LAS. With a somewhat middle of the day schedule, not the most 'business-friendly', but I know that's not what they're after.
Interesting to see it's a non-focus to non-focus route.
flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1922 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3594 times:
Do any of you really think this is going to last once the 757s and Hawai'i base is up and running? I personally think this is just a route to sit on the "slots" to use down the road.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3486 times:
Even if this route makes it through the summer I hate to see it come fall when tourism declines.
I simply don't see enough folks needing a LA connection on a large 150-seat plane especially when both OAK and SMF are only about 60miles away with tons of additional flight choices.
Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 6): Do any of you really think this is going to last once the 757s and Hawai'i base is up and running? I personally think this is just a route to sit on the "slots" to use down the road.
I don't think so as LGB officials were basically told that while Hawaii remains a future possibility, the market was not one they were eyeing as LA-Hawaii is hardly a market without ample flight choices and very heavy competition.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4746 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3404 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Personally I'm neither enthused nor have high hopes for the route on a large MD-80.
I need to do a little research but off the top of my head, it seems that G4 has not had a lot of success in the intra-California markets (MRY is certainly one fresh example) and this one sounds kind of odd to me as well.
This may well be a placeholder but then we need to revisit the debate about whether LGB could eventually see HNL service or not. If not, then I can't imagine they couldn't have come up with something better for this LGB route.
So we've now got half the service taken care of for the 2 slots at LGB, right? July is fast approaching so we should be hearing more very soon...
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3164 times:
I actually was expecting SCK-LAX a few days a week. But not LGB.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7): I simply don't see enough folks needing a LA connection on a large 150-seat plane especially when both OAK and SMF are only about 60miles away with tons of additional flight choices.
I don't think that OAK and SMF necessarily by themselves would be a problem.
Allegiant has managed to grow SCK-LAS from the original 3X per week at its start in 2006 to 7X a week now loaded in the schedules. That is in spite of many choices for LAS at OAK and SMF.
But I do question the 5X frequency. I had been thinking they would do 2X or 3X to some SoCal airport from SCK.
Quoting atcrick (Reply 9): who was the VP of planning that left?
Robert Ashcroft left last month. I have not heard the background on the departure.
[Edited 2010-06-03 16:51:28]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3122 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7): I don't think so as LGB officials were basically told that while Hawaii remains a future possibility, the market was not one they were eyeing as LA-Hawaii is hardly a market without ample flight choices and very heavy competition.
I had kind of suspected and heard the same thing. I've still heard smaller metro areas to HNL.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 278 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3122 times:
They should of "sat on the slot" until the 757 service comes up and instead of wasting the a/c with a route like this, I would have liked to see LGB-AZA.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4746 posts, RR: 15 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3074 times:
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 12): They should of "sat on the slot" until the 757 service comes up and instead of wasting the a/c with a route like this, I would have liked to see LGB-AZA
They can't sit on the slots; they either use 'em or lose 'em (by early July), hence the piece-meal schedule gradually being disclosed which should total 2 flights a day when they're done. They can always substitute HNL service, whenever that all happens, if they desire.
US flys LGB-PHX already multiple times a day so G4 doing that is as likely as them starting LGB-LAS (against B6.)
ridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 928 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3063 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Well here is the next LGB route: Stockton 5x weekly eff July 1st.
I do believe they have to make the slot operational a minimum of 5 days a week, or they lose it. So 2 or 3 times a week will not work on this slot.
More evidence that they are simply flying this route to preserve the slot for later use.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4746 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3026 times:
Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 15): I do believe they have to make the slot operational a minimum of 5 days a week, or they lose it. So 2 or 3 times a week will not work on this slot
There will have to be more route announcements to come; they still have at least one full ("daily") unused slot to fill. And since July is less than a month away, we should be hearing soon; I'm surprised they have waited this long...
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2990 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 16): There will have to be more route announcements to come; they still have at least one full ("daily") unused slot to fill. And since July is less than a month away, we should be hearing soon; I'm surprised they have waited this long...
So far it is BLI-LGB 3X (Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays) and SCK-LGB 5X (Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays).
The BLI flights will be on the ground at LGB from 5:05pm to 5:45pm
The SCK flights will be on the ground at LGB from 12:20pm to 1:00pm
Interesting, Thurs and Sun are now at 2X per day. But that leaves Mon/Tues/Wed/Fri at only 1X.
I wonder what they will do to finish out the needed frequencies.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2936 times:
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 18): Maybe they will revert back to their first routes LGB-Lake Tahoe
Even if they wanted to, the problem is they need to get an aircraft into either LGB or TVL first from somewhere else. The flights announced so far do not have time in the schedule so it wouldn't be either of these aircraft.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4746 posts, RR: 15 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2936 times:
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 17): Interesting, Thurs and Sun are now at 2X per day. But that leaves Mon/Tues/Wed/Fri at only 1X
I just finished working the schedule myself and yes, 8 out of 14 of the daily slots are taken care of. Maybe one more route at 6x/wkly or possibly 2 at 3x/wkly? And they will have to be self-supporting turns.
Maybe something in Oregon? And/or Colorado?
BTW, anyone know if the flights have to actually be 2 on each day of the week or could they be 3 flights on, say Fr and only 1 on Tue? In other words, to satisfy the 2 slots, is it just 14 weekly flights no matter how the flights are distributed throughout the week?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22865 posts, RR: 87 Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2901 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 20): Maybe something in Oregon? And/or Colorado?
Hmmmm. Maybe.
Three or four weeks ago, of all the many new routes Frontier started for this summer, the only one not meeting its revenue targets was - LGB.
They planned to do some targeted marketing specifically for this route and may have succeeded. By the time Cranky Flier flew one of the early flights the loads were pretty good - 75%. But I believe that SBA, for example, will start with higher load factors than that.
Now, Allegiant is a different airline with a different model, and Frontier is flying 2 x daily, but I am not yet convinced that LGB is an immediate pot of gold.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2835 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 20): BTW, anyone know if the flights have to actually be 2 on each day of the week or could they be 3 flights on, say Fr and only 1 on Tue? In other words, to satisfy the 2 slots, is it just 14 weekly flights no matter how the flights are distributed throughout the week?
As I recall (without digging into the airport rules & regs), a slot needs to be operated 6x weekly with allowed reduced service on Sat/Sun.
Knowing how unorthodox G4 is, I assume they might get approval for reduced service on a Tue or something, but that is all my conjecture.
Cant recall if I heard it or read it, but LGB was to become an all EMB190 station after the summer. I suspect the 100-seater would be a better long term match.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22865 posts, RR: 87 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2821 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22): Cant recall if I heard it or read it, but LGB was to become an all EMB190 station after the summer. I suspect the 100-seater would be a better long term match.
One of the flights is, and always has been, E190. The other is the A318, which is only 21 more seats.
Personally, I'd switch one of the two slots to somewhere other than DEN, but no one asked me,
mtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2141 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2787 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7): I simply don't see enough folks needing a LA connection on a large 150-seat plane especially when both OAK and SMF are only about 60miles away with tons of additional flight choices.
Well you can add potential pax from the Sierra foothills areas. It would save them half the road trip by just flying from SCK. My sister ( in Sonora) used to fly OO many times between MOD and LAX. She hated to see that go bye-bye. But, I am not too sure that LGB will be a big draw.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
25 LAXintl: I agree with you. I think F9 will find that to build enough volume for its two flights the pricing at LGB will end up cannibalizing LAX or SNA passen
26 mariner: I thin k it may have a greater value than that. I used LGB a lot when I lived in northern California and it was surely "LA" to me. For Frontier, I th
27 WhatUsaid: While I love LGB, this route looks to be a short-term, fill the slot without losing a pile of money approach until HNL starts. Yes, G4 has a good deal
28 lv: Here's a wild idea. You are all thinking about marketing LGB to the people of SCK. What about marketing SCK to LGB. Now I know, Stockton is a hole....
29 Avconsultant: Given Allegiant mentions his departure with the addition of the Sr VP of Ops and promotion of the new CFO, it appears to be a cordial departure. He c
30 mtnwest1979: Good ol' Lodi. Lived there mid 79 to mid 80. Always have to cruise thru when I am in the area to see what's changed. Last time was late April. Funny
31 WhatUsaid: You like those Lodi's Zin's, don't you? Delicato is about five minutes from the airport, btw. If we're to go down that path, you could package tours
32 FATFlyer: LOL, actually to enjoy small boutique wineries they should now start around Fresno/Madera (Fresno State is a top wine making school ) then up to Mari
33 timberwolf24: So Cal has wineries a lot closer than Sonoma/Napa but I do love Sonoma. Bueliton to Santa Maria to San Luis Obispo to Paso Robles is just loaded with
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From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22865 posts, 
I need to do a little research but off the top of my head, it seems that G4 has not had a lot of success in the intra-California markets (MRY is certainly one fresh example) and this one sounds kind of odd to me as well.
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