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Who Flies DL DC-9s These Days?  
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1608 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11345 times:

I'm interested if NW or now DL has cut off new pilots as they draw this type down, or do they still let new pilots fly them if they want and then just train them to a new type later?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAL763ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11203 times:

Who flies DL DC-9s these days?

Flight attendants.   



Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10882 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
I'm interested if NW or now DL has cut off new pilots as they draw this type down, or do they still let new pilots fly them if they want and then just train them to a new type later?

What do you mean cut off? DL is looking to hire pilots, so they aren't cutting them off the seniority list or furloughing them, if that's what you mean. Are you asking if the new hires will go to the -9? Someone will fly the -9 till it gets phased out, then they go to another position at the airline. Generally as fleets shrink the fleet gets more senior as guys who want to stay on the machine stay put until they are forced off. If DL is going to hire pilots then they certainly aren't going to be turning the DC-9 guys out on the street as they are parked. Whether any new hires get to fly the DC-9 will be determined by manning requirements and whatever contractural provisions they have for staffing the positions (i.e.bid rights).


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1608 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10496 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 2):
Are you asking if the new hires will go to the -9? Someone will fly the -9 till it gets phased out, then they go to another position at the airline. Generally as fleets shrink the fleet gets more senior as guys who want to stay on the machine stay put until they are forced off. If DL is going to hire pilots then they certainly aren't going to be turning the DC-9 guys out on the street as they are parked. Whether any new hires get to fly the DC-9 will be determined by manning requirements and whatever contractural provisions they have for staffing the positions (i.e.bid rights).

Sorry for the confusion...whether new hires get spots on old types being phased out soon was my question.


User currently offlinee38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 9942 times:

Quoting LHCVG (reply 3), "whether new hires get spots on old types being phased out soon was my question."

LHCVG, Delta's current fleet plan is to operate 34 DC9-51 aircraft with pilot's based in Detroit, Minneapolis, and Memphis after the series 30s and 40s are retired next Fall. Naturally, there will still be a requirement for the DC9 pilots, although as the 30s and 40s are retired, the number of pilots required will decrease and DC9 pilots will have the opportunity to bid other aircraft depending on what type of aircraft and which base their seniority can hold. Most of the DC9 pilots will probably move on to the MD-88/MD-90 and A320/A319 categories. Some of crews will be able to hold 737 positions and even some of the more senior pilots may be able to hold widebody positions.

As pilots are hired during the summer and fall, normally they will be assigned to the most junior positions. However, as PGNCS mentioned in Reply 2, as fleets are retired, the staffing usually gets more senior as the pilots tend to hold on to their current positions until forced to bid another aircraft.

What that means is that as Delta hires pilots in the future, the new hires will still go to the most junior positions; however, those positions will probably include some DC9 positions, while others may be assigned to MD-88/MD-90 and A320/A319 positons. To answer your question, yes, some of the new hires will fly the DC9, but since that fleet will not be able to absorb everyone, there may also be positions available in the MD-88/MD-90 and A320/A319 fleets.

Hope that helps.

e38


User currently offlinejetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1654 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 9874 times:
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I would assume it would be much easier to transition the DC-9 pilots over to the MD80/90 series airplanes because they already type rated or qualified because they all share the DC-9 type rating for Captains or training for First Officers.

All the pilots would need is a few days of differences training and they are ready to go.

JetStar


User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7557 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 9575 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
I'm interested if NW or now DL has cut off new pilots as they draw this type down, or do they still let new pilots fly them if they want and then just train them to a new type later?

No new pilots have been hired, and they won't be hired until this fall. Most of them will likely start on the MD-88 or 737 types.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting jetstar (Reply 5):
I would assume it would be much easier to transition the DC-9 pilots over to the MD80/90 series airplanes because they already type rated or qualified because they all share the DC-9 type rating for Captains or training for First Officers.

Easier maybe, but that's not how it works. Everything is done on seniority and as the DC-9 staffing is decreased and pilots are displaced from this airplane they will use their seniority to bid on what ever airplane they want to fly. Additionally, I have spoken to a few of the oooooooooold DC-9 drivers who are even finding the MD-88/90 training to be challenging as these guys have never flown anything with EFIS, FMS, or an autopilot that does more than altitude hold and heading select. The whole VNAV thing is really throwing them for a loop.

727forever



727forever
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7669 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 8290 times:

Its all seniority based.

Pilots bid into an aircraft type and base, and it is all seniority based. Each months lines are built for the projected amount of flying, this also includes some reserve lines that don't have a set schedule.

There are many reasons why a pilot may want to bid a particular aircraft or base. This can include:
- Aircraft preference
- Based in the city where they want to live
- Commuting proximity
- Pay rates for a given aircraft
- Type of flying / Destinations

It is all based on seniority.

There a bunch of very senior guys that simply love flying the DC-9. Some of these will likely retire on that aircraft. Some like it because its 'old school' hands-on flying. Some prefer doing 5-6 legs/day short hops bouncing around the Midwest/East coast instead of doing long-haul international. Some just simply want to be based in MSP or DTW.

That said, NYC bases typically go more junior mostly due to cost of living. A lot of pilots don't want to live or commute to NYC, hence why NYC M88 and even the 757/767 bases go more junior than one would thing.

As the post-merger bases realign and there is movement through retirement/attrition/increased utilization existing pilots will move to other fleet types and based, the new hires will fill in the vacancies at the bottom.

Yes, some new hires will likely become DC9 FO's. There are a number of guys & gals flying RJ's these days that would jump at the chance to be able to fly a DC9 at DL.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 7997 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 6):
No new pilots have been hired, and they won't be hired until this fall. Most of them will likely start on the MD-88 or 737 types.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
M88 and even the 757/767 bases go more junior than one would thing.

Exactly. Its not always Junior pilots going to short haul planes. I remember when Delta last hired some pilots some new hires went right to the 767/757 it all depends on what is needed. With low pay these days many senior guys will stay on their aircraft when moving up to a wide body and deal with long haul flying. I know a DL pilot who has been with DL sine 86 and has only flown the DC-9 and A320 he could easily up grade to long haul but just does not want to. Its all up to personal preference.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

Quoting jetstar (Reply 5):
I would assume it would be much easier to transition the DC-9 pilots over to the MD80/90 series airplanes because they already type rated or qualified because they all share the DC-9 type rating for Captains or training for First Officers.

All the pilots would need is a few days of differences training and they are ready to go.

This one won't be "a few days" despite the common type rating. At any rate, it's all seniority based anyway.

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 6):
No new pilots have been hired, and they won't be hired until this fall. Most of them will likely start on the MD-88 or 737 types.

I'm not being cantankerous here, but how do you know where they'll go?


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 7776 times:

Quoting 727forever (Reply 7):
Additionally, I have spoken to a few of the oooooooooold DC-9 drivers who are even finding the MD-88/90 training to be challenging as these guys have never flown anything with EFIS, FMS

Maybe their brains are fried after doing a bajillion cycles on DC-9!  


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Quoting 727forever (Reply 7):
Additionally, I have spoken to a few of the oooooooooold DC-9 drivers who are even finding the MD-88/90 training to be challenging as these guys have never flown anything with EFIS, FMS

Maybe their brains are fried after doing a bajillion cycles on DC-9!

There were lots of guys who retired with the 727 because they didn't want to go to the 757/767. From having worked in the training department in the years when older guys were first transitioning to glass, it was a frequently very difficult transition, and some of them didn't make it and either went to fly another round dial aircraft (until all were all gone) or retired. The younger, more computer savvy guys had a much easier transition, but then again they didn't have 35 years of flying habits (in some cases) to undo. It is totally unsurprising that there are DC-9 guys struggling with an EFIS transition course. Most, of course, will do just fine, but in any program like this some will have a great deal of difficulty.


User currently offlineBHMDiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 6470 times:

All of the pilots who are being hired by Delta right now are going to the DC-9 and the MD-88 aircraft. The combination of Comair, and Compass pilots along with the new hires off the street will go to these seats.

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6588 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Aren't the MD-88 and MD-90 payscales separate? As far as I remember they are; the MD-90 payscale is between the MD-88 and A319/A320. Also, the 739(ER) payscale is separate from the 73G/738 payscale, slotting in between the 73G/738 and 757/763(ER) payscales.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinecv640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 5955 times:

Its a shrinking class but there are still quite a few of us on it. People fly it for a number of reasons.

As for newhires, i doubt many will see it. The fleet is getting smaller and other fleets are adding hours. They need less crews, so unless people bid off of it, no need for anyone new.

I'm on it for a few more months at least, trying to see if I can extend that time. As for why some people choose it, there are a number of reasons.

Some like the type of flying, others don't want to commute to another plane, and others just like the schedules. They will be gone in a few years, I know, but I'll always have good memories from my time on the mighty -9.


User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3955 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 5847 times:

BHM - they haven't started hiring yet and when they do, the flow through agreements are with Mesaba and Compass, off the street hires will come after the XJ and CP flows.

User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 14):
Aren't the MD-88 and MD-90 payscales separate? As far as I remember they are; the MD-90 payscale is between the MD-88 and A319/A320. Also, the 739(ER) payscale is separate from the 73G/738 payscale, slotting in between the 73G/738 and 757/763(ER) payscales.

So you get paid one rate on an -88 leg and another on a -90 leg, what's the problem?


User currently offlinecv640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 16):
BHM - they haven't started hiring yet and when they do, the flow through agreements are with Mesaba and Compass, off the street hires will come after the XJ and CP flows.

Hey AZ

Will you be able to flow soon?


User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7557 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 10):
I'm not being cantankerous here, but how do you know where they'll go?

Well the DC-9 is a shrinking class and the lastest DL new hires all went to either MD-88 or 737's



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3955 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

CV640 - It depends on what the numbers look like after they put out the "flow bid." I'm certain it won't be this year, but if hiring really does continue through 2011 in the numbers we're hearing, I could end up flowing in the next few years. This assumes the flow stays at 9/mo and isn't changed. 9 is actually a trickle for me considering there are 250-300 who get the chance before me!

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Quoting BHMDiversion (Reply 13):
All of the pilots who are being hired by Delta right now are going to the DC-9 and the MD-88 aircraft.

No.

In 2007 and 2008 when NW and DL were doing their respective hiring, NW hired onto 742 SO and 320 FO where DL hired onto M88 FO, 737 FO, and 767ER FO (Africa isn't the most popular of trips).

As other posters have mentioned, the DC9 is a shrinking fleet type and pilots are being displaced from it - not onto it.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 19):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 10):
I'm not being cantankerous here, but how do you know where they'll go?

Well the DC-9 is a shrinking class and the lastest DL new hires all went to either MD-88 or 737's

That was the last time they hired, and they also hired a lot into the NYC 767 base too. I was trying to understand if your post was speculative or not.

Quoting BHMDiversion (Reply 13):
All of the pilots who are being hired by Delta right now are going to the DC-9 and the MD-88 aircraft.

Source? Delta has not hired anyone yet, how do you know where they are going?


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 5699 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 22):
and they also hired a lot into the NYC 767 base too.

At first glance I'd be really happy if I got hired onto that.... but NYC base, reserve, and constantly getting Africa trips would very quickly take its toll  


User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3955 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

I dunno... everything will take its toll at some point. It's all about perspective. I'm so sick of flying around the midwest in an RJ, I'd LOVE to sit reserve in JFK and have an Accra overnight every once in awhile!

25 deltal1011man : not so much on the 73N from the last AE it looks like MSP-320/M89 plus the NYC M88 will be were most of the new pilots go. I'm sure a few will make i
26 Post contains images PGNCS : There's definitely pros and cons on both sides! Sounds great at least until the first layover!
27 Post contains images 727forever : Easier maybe, but that's not how it works. Everything is done on seniority and as the DC-9 staffing is decreased and pilots are displaced from this a
28 BHMDiversion : My apologies, CP and XJ, not OH. I am not confirming anything about where I heard this from, but it is a reliable source. From what I hear, half of t
29 burnsie28 : I don't know about the 320 since the MSP base is the second most senior on the aircraft after MEM.
30 Post contains images PGNCS : Well there are only three bases for it, right? Fair enough. Narrowbody also includes 737NG and A-319/320 fleets, though. I am betting that your predi
31 azjubilee : Mesaba can flow 9/month or up to 10% of the pilot group in a 12 month period. Compass can flow 20/month with the same 10% restriction. Mesaba has 1,16
32 PGNCS : Thanks for the information azjubilee. I had heard much talk of this but didn't understand the specifics. I presume it's done in seniority order of vol
33 Transpac787 : Four now. DTW, MSP, MEM, SLC.
34 PGNCS : Ah, very well; good catch. Thank you. And what is the relative seniority of FO's in the four, which seems to be the crux of the question? I would exp
35 azjubilee : PGNCS - a pilots opportunity to flow will come in seniority order and it's a one time opportunity. The first 124 have had the chance and 13 have flowe
36 Post contains images PGNCS : That makes perfect sense, and I really appreciate your clarifying it for me!
37 e38 : Transpac787, with reference to your comment (reply 21), "In 2007 and 2008 when NW and DL were doing their respective hiring, NW hired onto 742 SO and
38 azjubilee : I always wondered what the heck A&E stands for at Delta? Is it a fancy name for vacancy?
39 atpcliff : Hi! I thought the -9-40s were ALREADY phased out??? Heard the -9-50s to stay for 8-10 years. cliff LFW PS-I am currently flying a TWA DC-9. It is a -9
40 e38 : Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 28), "I always wondered what the heck A&E stands for at Delta?" Azjubilee, as you know, every airline has a process by wh
41 cv640 : Nope, we still got a few. There are only about 7 or so left online, so the odds of seeing one are very slim. I can't say I'm a fan of that model, but
42 e38 : Quoting atpcliff (Reply 39), "I thought the -9-40s were ALREADY phased out??? " Cliff, as cv640 correctly stated in Reply 41, Delta still operates sev
43 azjubilee : E38 - THanks, I was just trying to correlate the A&E at Delta, to the Vacancy, Reduction and Realignments we have at Mesaba.
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