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CO 787 Future Routes?  
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2682 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9590 times:

Where will CO 787s fly to when they enter service?Any plan to fly EWR-CDG soon?


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22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25363 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9589 times:

Nice thread about this already. Assumption is CO wont be CO when the 1st aircraft arrives on property
UA/CO Merger: Impact On Fleets & Routes (by Moderators Apr 25 2010 in Civil Aviation)



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9290 times:

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Where will CO 787s fly to when they enter service?

As LAX stated, by the time CO takes delivery of their first 787s they will be UA. That said the first route was just announced, IAH-Auckland. Other routes that have been mentioned by CO executives in various interviews over the years:

EWR-Bangalore, EWR-Hyderabad, EWR-Chennai, IAH-Madrid, IAH-Rome



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9197 times:
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however, with the codeshare no longer on the FCO segment, highly doubtful that route will still be flown.


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User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5272 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9080 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
EWR-Bangalore, EWR-Hyderabad, EWR-Chennai

I doubt that we will see these come to fruition. At least not in the near term. After all, it's been at least 5 years since CO has even mentioned these as potential 787 routes. Given the depression in US-India yields and the well-known profitability problems that airlines have had, I doubt that COs current top priority for the 787 fleet is secondary cities in India. Additionally, since the merger is likely to be approved by the time that the 1st 787 is delivered, I fully expect that any new 787 routes will be those that leverage the strenghts of the merged airline as well as routes such as the recently announced IAH-AKL that leverage COs position in Star. I simply do not see the above 3 as fitting those criteria at this point.



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 3):
however, with the codeshare no longer on the FCO segment, highly doubtful that route will still be flown.

The combined CO/UA will serve Rome from ORD, EWR and IAD. The major hub lacking Rome flights would be Houston, Skyteam or code shares are not the driving force behind these routes.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9064 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):

The combined CO/UA will serve Rome from ORD, EWR and IAD. The major hub lacking Rome flights would be Houston, Skyteam or code shares are not the driving force behind these routes.

With that in mind there is virtually no reason at all to fly IAH-FCO. There is no real market beyond the tourist. What is there is low yield.

The next European markets from IAH should be ZRH or MUC. Not MAD or FCO.



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User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9031 times:
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If CO doesn't even serve EWR-FCO on a 7x weekly basis year round, there is no reason to add a IAH-FCO service. And you can be certain, that when Larry made that comment about 2 years ago, it was driven for SkyTEAM. He even said it was himself at the CEO exchange. Hitting the skyteam hubs from Houston.

MUC is probably high up on the list as the next european destination.........either LH/CO.



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User currently offlinevin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9013 times:

I already posted this in a previous thread"

"1. Newark-Bangalore- This is one of the more obvious ones. Outside of London, New Jersey probably has the most NRIs, or non-resident Indians. New York is a huge city with plenty of corporations having IT centers in Bangalore. When coupled with connections over United/Continental’s hub, the outbound flight should never have a seat empty. And as the Silicon Valley of India, Bangalore has plenty of traffic to the US for the inbound.

2. Houston-Beijing- This another one of those relatively obvious ones. This route will connect two Star Alliance hubs, and two of the fastest growing countries in the world; China and Texas. United’s strong base in Beijing, coupled with better connections at Houston should validate the route. Plus, China and Houston are building strong links over the resource industry, and there is a decent VFR (visiting family/relatives) quotient in Houston.

3. Chicago-Istanbul- While Istanbul may not be the most obvious destination, the large Middle Eastern population in Chicago would probably jump at the chance to get directly to Istanbul, and connect onwards on their Star Alliance partner Turkish Airlines, gaining valuable Mileage Plus miles. Sure beats a high-priced ticket on American’s bed partner Etihad Airways. Of course Turkish Airlines already operates a service on this route, but shifting the service to a United 787 would allow them to shift a precious 777-300ER to a new destination in their network.

4. Houston-Lagos- Oil baby oil! Connecting two major oil centers could definitely sustain a 4-weekly service to Lagos. The market is definitely there, and route potential will be helped by the fact that there really is no viable option between Houston and Lagos without significant diversion. However, one can always count on the Nigerian government to pull some crazy stunt, so even if announced, the route would not be a sure thing. United’s experience in Lagos should serve as a fair warning.

5. Los Angeles-Hong Kong- Strictly speaking, this wouldn’t be a new route, as United operated up until the early 2000s with a 747, and then a 777. Competition with Cathay Pacific eventually forced them off the route, but armed with a new aircraft, United is primed for another go. The business ties between Los Angeles and Hong Kong are well documented, and as the dominant carrier in LA, United should get decent feed. And as they move from using Tokyo-Narita as an intra-Asia hub to using Hong Kong, connections on that end should only grow.

6. Houston-Santiago- This is a little bit different, because it is a route that could be done profitably with a current aircraft; the 767-200ER. But in terms of the United network, it makes perfect sense. Houston is a fast growing city in terms of Latin American business, and Continental/United could flow all of America onto this route. Santiago is probably the biggest Latin American hole in Continental/United’s current network.

7. San Francisco-Paris- One of the more marginal routes, San Francisco-Paris would be a nice addition to fill out United’s European network. Strong business ties, plus a healthy tourism market would fill the plane profitably, and San Francisco can definitely handle another European nonstop. Viva La Revolucion!!!

8. Newark-Casablanca-Johannesburg-This is where we leave the realm of easy possibility and move into speculation. There is demand between New York and Johannesburg, no one can doubt that. But the 787 would be hard pressed to fly a viable nonstop on EWR-JNB. That’s where Casablanca steps in. Demand between CMN and New York is decent, and Morrocco has a fast growing tourism sector. With 5th freedom rights between CMN and JNB, this route is sure to be a winner."


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8960 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 8):

Agreed these are contenders, except Im not convinced of Houston-Santiago. Continental could have been flying this for years, but they opted not to. I dont think the 787 is going to change that.

I also wonder if Houston-Shanghai would be a better choice than Houston-Beijing.



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User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8686 times:

I expect one of the first things you might see is them downgrading current 777 routes to 787s.

User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3667 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8432 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 10):
I expect one of the first things you might see is them downgrading current 777 routes to 787s.

Which cities would these be?



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User currently offlineflypba From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8142 times:

CO Will be receiving 787s long before their merger goes through (which it might not)

User currently offlineualcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

I've always thought WAW would be a nice destination for UA to enter Eastern Europe and after joining *A, CO with a '57 (if there's range). I don't think any US airline serves them (double check though) and it's a *A city. Are there low yields on this market?

User currently offlineVictr From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6219 times:

Would we see EWR-LPA I Need to know


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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6049 times:

Quoting flypba (Reply 12):
CO Will be receiving 787s long before their merger goes through (which it might not)

CO/UA expect the merger to be approved by the end of 2010, the 787s are coming in line in the 3rd qtr 2011. I think it's highly likely when the 787s are delivered CO/UA will be merged.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6021 times:

Quoting Victr (Reply 14):

Would we see EWR-LPA I Need to know

Probably not. The Canaries just aren't an American tourist destination as they are for Europeans. The Caribbean beaches are far better. IMHO. Unless it becomes the next hip place to be.



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User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5892 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 8):
7. San Francisco-Paris- One of the more marginal routes, San Francisco-Paris would be a nice addition to fill out United’s European network. Strong business ties, plus a healthy tourism market would fill the plane profitably, and San Francisco can definitely handle another European nonstop. Viva La Revolucion!!!

You're probably too young to remember UA flew this route for several years and dropped it in 2005. It used to be a 777 route and it was downgraded to a 763 a few years before it was dropped. (UA also moved the route down to LAX for a few years in the 90s but that didn't work either). Apparently loads were good (some say better than on UA's other CDG services, a 772 from IAD and a 763 from ORD), however yields were quite terrible, particularly in premium classes. Overall, the Paris-California market is pretty low yielding and, as far as American carriers are concerned, relies mainly on O&D since CDG is a SkyTeam hub and there aren't many connections possible west of SFO or LAX. AA also dropped LAX-CDG a few years ago.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5656 times:

Probably a "Guam-Connector": SFO/LAX-GUM.


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User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6141 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5385 times:

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 17):

And that outlines exactly where the 787 is suppose to make money. Long thin routes like SFO-CDG! It would also me a much shorter flight then Asia so it could have the a/c quickly back into a hub and rotating again.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 18):

SFO/LAX-GUM has crossed my mind as well after the merger. United could very easily find feeding GUM-MNL from SFO/LAX could do well. IMHO



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User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3667 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 19):
SFO/LAX-GUM has crossed my mind as well after the merger. United could very easily find feeding GUM-MNL from SFO/LAX could do well. IMHO

If this happens, they would definitely need to upgrade GUM-MNL to a bigger plane, at least a 752, 753,or 763.



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User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4845 times:
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Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 8):
8. Newark-Casablanca-Johannesburg-This is where we leave the realm of easy possibility and move into speculation. There is demand between New York and Johannesburg, no one can doubt that. But the 787 would be hard pressed to fly a viable nonstop on EWR-JNB. That’s where Casablanca steps in. Demand between CMN and New York is decent, and Morrocco has a fast growing tourism sector. With 5th freedom rights between CMN and JNB, this route is sure to be a winner."

Newark to J'berg and Capetown, two separate flights, nonstop both ways. Hey Delta has shown us a nonstop from J'berg to ATL(8,500 miles vs. 7900 for JFK to JNB) can be down with a 777LR so a 787( any version) should not have a problem. Casablanca would be a great 757 from Newark, a better use if a 757 then teh 4th or 5 th EWR to LHR rotation.


User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4383 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 8):
3. Chicago-Istanbul- While Istanbul may not be the most obvious destination, the large Middle Eastern population in Chicago would probably jump at the chance to get directly to Istanbul, and connect onwards on their Star Alliance partner Turkish Airlines, gaining valuable Mileage Plus miles. Sure beats a high-priced ticket on American’s bed partner Etihad Airways. Of course Turkish Airlines already operates a service on this route, but shifting the service to a United 787 would allow them to shift a precious 777-300ER to a new destination in their network.

There's no financial incentive for TK to exit the route, as United and Turkish do not enjoy antitrust immunity.

Quoting as739x (Reply 19):
And that outlines exactly where the 787 is suppose to make money. Long thin routes like SFO-CDG!

SFO-CDG would likely not be a good use of an aircraft for United. For starters, most of the demand for the SFO-Europe market comes from the European side - and Air France has the market for French travelers to/from California, including SFO, solidly locked up. And with respect to the American side, the pax tend to be connecting beyond CDG to the Middle East and South Asia. All of this mitigates against adding SFO-CDG and instead pursuing additional SFO-Germany frequencies, if more flying into Europe is desired.

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