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Germany Introduces "environmental" Departure Taxes  
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4378 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9451 times:

In their efforts to reduce the state deficit, Germany will collect about one billion Euro per year from aviation industry. All departures from German airports will be taxed, depending on noise and energy consumption. This will stay until airlines participate in CO2 trade.

I'm sure the neighbours will follow quickly, since they all have big deficits to fill.

Detail not yet out, witt 80 Mio passengers who departed from Germany in 2009 this makes around 12€ per ticket. Will not hurt those who charge 100€ or more per ticket, but those who charge € 7,99 will have a problem.


Citing http://www.heute.de/ZDFheute/inhalt/30/0,3672,8077694,00.html

Die Bundesregierung nimmt zudem die Luftfahrtbranche ins Visier: Die Unternehmen müssen künftig eine «ökologische Luftverkehrsabgabe» zahlen. Sie soll jährlich etwa eine Milliarde Euro einspielen und bei Abflügen von deutschen Flughäfen erhoben und nach Kriterien wie Lärm und Energieverbrauch differenziert werden.

Erst wenn auch die Luftfahrtunternhmen in den bereits vereinbarten CO2-Emissionshandel einbezogen werden, soll die Abgabe wieder wegfallen.

[Edited 2010-06-08 01:50:59]

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9402 times:

Just read about that, too. What a bunch of sh*t. They want to make a billion € of that every year. How many pax fly from German airports every year? I only have the figure of 46.2 million for the first half of 2008. Would result in maybe 95 million per year in 2011. So that fee would be about 10,- € or a little more for every take off. Considering that there are already a lot of taxes and fees on German tickets, this is very disgusting. So no more 19.99€ flights?

This needs to be stopped. Considering how much money the state is throwing away for other things, I can not accept such a charge for flying. Disgusting. The FDP is nearing zero credibility.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3588 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9358 times:

I guess I'll avoid LH for future flights.

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9363 times:

Since only one third of the consolidation may come from reducing the expenses to the social system, I'm afraid this is only a beginning. Another part are two billion expect to come from a tax on banking. Giving the strong lobby of the banking industry vs the small of the aviation industry, I expect the baking tax to be reduced or fail much faster than this aviation tax.

Yes, no more 19.99€ flights. Be happy with 31.99€ flights.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9328 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
I guess I'll avoid LH for future flights.

All flights having a departure from Germany will be 12€ or 15$ higher in price.
This tax was already on the agenda since long. All countries from the Northern part of the EU wanted them, only Spain and Greece were against it. Now that Germany introduces it without waiting for the others, expect France, the UK, Ireland, the Netherlands etc to follow within days.


User currently offlineflybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9290 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
I guess I'll avoid LH for future flights.

For what amounts to 20 bucks? Isn't that being a little reactionary? If you intend to fly to anyplace in western Europe where a bottle of water will set you back $5 to $6, you must be prepared to spend serious cash no matter what you do. Europe is certainly not for the stingy.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineHywel From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2008, 785 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9279 times:

Good job that SZG is near MUC and AMS is near DUS  

User currently offlinecv990Coronado From South Africa, joined Nov 2007, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9254 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Why not be honest and "Call it a save the Euro and the banks tax " Why keep hitting aviation? Governments waste so much money and then come back and tax the airlines, business travellers trying to make a living and workers enjoying a well earned holiday.


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User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9244 times:

Quoting Hywel (Reply 6):
Good job that SZG is near MUC and AMS is near DUS

The Dutch government was very in favor of this taxation, mainly because it hits Ryanair more than the others.


User currently offline777KLM From China, joined Apr 2005, 527 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9236 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 4):
Now that Germany introduces it without waiting for the others, expect France, the UK, Ireland, the Netherlands etc to follow within days.

The Dutch tried it with the 'vliegtax' in 2008, they ended it after just one year. With the elections coming up, a lot of right wing parties are saying 'never again' to introduce such a tax. I know it's politics, so I don't hold my breath...



Next flight: AMS-PEK
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

Quoting cv990Coronado (Reply 7):
Why not be honest and "Call it a save the Euro and the banks tax "

It has nothing to do with save the Euro, this is only how to partially balance the 700 bio costs for Germany of the Wall Street break down. Save the Euro comes in three years, and maybe sn't cheaper.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9191 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
Yes, no more 19.99€ flights. Be happy with 31.99€ flights.

But that would be the lowest fare. All others would rise accordingly.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 5):
For what amounts to 20 bucks? Isn't that being a little reactionary?

Depends on the overall price, I would say. This increase doens't necessarily mean that they are more expensive than all their competitors, especially on flights that cost $500+

Quoting Hywel (Reply 6):
Good job that SZG is near MUC and AMS is near DUS

Some day I'll have to take the train to Poland and fly from there.

Quoting cv990Coronado (Reply 7):
Why not be honest and "Call it a save the Euro and the banks tax " Why keep hitting aviation? Governments waste so much money and then come back and tax the airlines, business travellers trying to make a living and workers enjoying a well earned holiday.

Because the German government is incompetent. They spend € 320 million for a 1.8km subway with three stops that nobody needs, waste money for a lot of other useless stuff, but than they have to take it from the people.


User currently offlinevc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1406 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9097 times:

Here in the UK every departing passenger has been taxed { for Enviromental reason you understand   } for years now and if only it was as low as 12 euros. So is this to be an additional tax

littlevc10


User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9006 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
So no more 19.99€ flights?

If I got the news right, this new tax will be imposed on airlines, not passengers. This means that a handed down passenger surcharge has to be applied on the ticket price, not on the fees & taxes part, hasn't it? Such it will rather be (in FR's case) "No more free flights".

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
They spend € 320 million for a 1.8km subway with three stops that nobody needs

As a side note, this is not exactly true. I guess you are referring to the new U55 subway line in Berlin. Yes, currently there are only three stops and it isn't really needed, but the line is to be expanded to meet existing U5 line, which by then definetely will come in useful. The whole project dates back from the national efforts reshape the center of Berlin, especially concerning governmental buildings. The subway construction has also seen cutbacks over the last years, most notably station interiors won't see splurge architecture, as it was originally planned.

Germany must get rid of its extremely high national debt, by means of cost-saving or (in this case) imposing taxes. At least this tax won't hurt the already poor ones. Imposing taxes on airlines depending on passenger number is quite common -- even in European countries (the UK comes to mind).

[Edited 2010-06-08 03:06:43]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8980 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 14):
At least this tax won't hurt the already poor ones.

But the middle class and young people who got used to zero cost flying - and that is where most of the money can be found. It will stay, I'm sure.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8884 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 14):
If I got the news right, this new tax will be imposed on airlines, not passengers. This means that a handed down passenger surcharge has to be applied on the ticket price, not on the fees & taxes part, hasn't it? Such it will rather be (in FR's case) "No more free flights".

To be honest - I don't care whether it is under the "taxes and fees"-part or as part of the ticket prices. Airlines will give it 1:1 to the passengers. What else should they do?

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 14):

As a side note, this is not exactly true. I guess you are referring to the new U55 subway line in Berlin. Yes, currently there are only three stops and it isn't really needed, but the line is to be expanded to meet existing U5 line, which by then definetely will come in useful. The whole project dates back from the national efforts reshape the center of Berlin, especially concerning governmental buildings. The subway construction has also seen cutbacks over the last years, most notably station interiors won't see splurge architecture, as it was originally planned.

This here is about aviation, so we shall not discuss how useful a connection between the Hauptbahnhof and the Alexanderplatz (there is already one) or between Hbf. and Hönow is. My point is that the government wastes billions of money for stupid things and I have to pay for that when I'm flying, which is not OK.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 14):
Germany must get rid of its extremely high national debt, by means of cost-saving or (in this case) imposing taxes.

No, they must cut wasting, then cut spending, then cut taxes.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 15):
But the middle class and young people who got used to zero cost flying - and that is where most of the money can be found. It will stay, I'm sure.

I'm young, I'm middle class, I'm exploited. This is Germany.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9097 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8852 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 14):
f I got the news right, this new tax will be imposed on airlines, not passengers. This means that a handed down passenger surcharge has to be applied on the ticket price, not on the fees & taxes part, hasn't it? Such it will rather be (in FR's case) "No more free flights".

Its additonial taxation which is passed down to the passengers. No company in the world pays taxes out of its substance, taxes are costs which are paid out of the turnover and that comes from the customers.

I don't see this tax coming unless other countries follow suit. It is a stupid tax because it drives business away from Germany and the result will be rather less than more state income. Politicians just don't understand how markets work.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
but than they have to take it from the people.

does any other source come to your mind? And please don't tell me companies - check above where they get it from. There is no other way.

What really nags me is that the only public transport system that fully pays for its infrastructure and even generates taxes on top of that gets hurt by this stupid intention of additonal taxation.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8730 times:

Quoting cv990Coronado (Reply 7):
Why keep hitting aviation?

Because aviation has enjoyed unfair subsidies in form of no or low fuel tax for all too long.



Las Malvinas son Argentinas
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9097 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8649 times:

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 19):
Because aviation has enjoyed unfair subsidies in form of no or low fuel tax for all too long.

Take a deep breath my friend, and enjoy yourself. You have just breathed subsidized air. Congratulations.

Inform yourself why international traffic is not taxed, read something about the Chicago convention, about international treaties and think about the practicability of extraterritorial taxation. The international community has found other ways and means of generating taxes aout of aviation and we, the users pay for that., In most counries of the world, aviation pays for its infrastructure and does not need additonal stupid taxes on top of that.

IATA has just released a statement which puts ot to the point:

quote text released by IATA today



For immediate release Date: 8 June 2010 No: 28

News
Axe the Tax
Airlines Protest EUR 1 billion German Cash Grab
Berlin - The International Air Transport Association (IATA) reacted sharply to the announcement made by the German government of a EUR 1 billion annual burden on aviation with a new departure tax in Germany. The tax is branded as an environmental initiative.
“This is the worst kind of short-sighted policy irresponsibility. It’s a cash-grab by a cash-strapped government. Painting it green adds insult to injury. There will be no environmental benefit from the economic damage caused,” said Giovanni Bisignani, IATA’s Director General and CEO. His remarks were made in front of industry leaders gathered in Berlin as the 66th IATA Annual General Meeting and World Air Transport Summit drew to a close.
Bisignani highlighted three major concerns with the German proposal. “The proposal should be axed. It is the wrong measure at the wrong time; and it ignores the lessons learned from the failure of a similar tax in the Netherlands,” said Bisignani.
The wrong measure: “Climate change is a global issue. The solution requires a global approach, not uncoordinated regional taxes. What will this do for the environment? Absolutely nothing. If the Chancellor is serious about aviation and climate change, the focus should be on finding a globally coordinated solution at the International Civil Aviation Organization in advance of the climate talks in Cancun,” said Bisignani.
The wrong time: “Airlines have an important role in driving economic growth, particularly as we struggle to recover from the recession. This is not the time to burden the aviation industry with more taxes. European GDP growth is expected to be 0.9% this year—the lowest among the world’s major regions. Operating in this environment, Europe’s airlines will be the only region in the red with losses of $2.8 billion. This tax is a body blow to the weak economy and a fragile industry. And it is a kick in the teeth to travelers at a time when they can least afford it,” said Bisignani.
Lessons unlearned: “Even as a cash-grab, the proposed tax makes no sense. The Dutch government tried to raise EUR 300 million with a similar tax. It cost the Dutch economy EUR 1.2 billion in lost business. It also failed as an environmental measure, sending travelers across the border to start their journey from more tax-sensible regimes. The Dutch had the good sense to repeal their tax. Why repeat past mistakes?” questioned Bisignani.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineCaptainCrackers From New Zealand, joined May 2010, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8645 times:

Why don't they just make the current energy tax apply to jet fuel? Is the per-passenger tax a more efficient form of taxation?

Update: Thanks PanHAM for pointing out the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation of 1944, which exempts air fuels from tax.

[Edited 2010-06-08 04:42:22]

User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2682 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8598 times:

I will now try my best to avoid German airports for transit as a non-rev.

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8592 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 20):
Operating in this environment, Europe’s airlines will be the only region in the red with losses of $2.8 billion.

Really? I thought the US carriers were the only ones who generated red numbers on aggregate.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9097 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8558 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 23):
uoting PanHAM (Reply 20):
Operating in this environment, Europe’s airlines will be the only region in the red with losses of $2.8 billion.

Really? I thought the US carriers were the only ones who generated red numbers on aggregate.

Thorben - these are Mr. Bisignani's words, not mine. Further, you have taken that out of context and you should make that clear.

However, yes, he is right with this statement. Don't think too short, because you are mixing up a statement which came from IATA as well, but IIRC the day before the German Government invented the new tax. Which means, it is not legitimate to draw that conclusion, OK?



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3158 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8473 times:

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 19):

Because aviation has enjoyed unfair subsidies in form of no or low fuel tax for all too long.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 20):
Inform yourself why international traffic is not taxed, read something about the Chicago convention, about international treaties and think about the practicability of extraterritorial taxation.

Of course there are plenty of reasons for not allowing tax on international air transport, and of course there is the treaty, but this doesn't change the fact that aviation is enjoying a favourable tax position.

By the way, taxation of domestic air transport is well allowed and quite some countries charge VAT on domestic flights, including Germany, France, Spain, Portugal and Italy.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 20):
In most counries of the world, aviation pays for its infrastructure and does not need additonal stupid taxes on top of that.

It's quite funny that every month there are intense debates about (either fair or unfair) state aid to airports and airlines, about local governments who pay for air services, who take the burden of the losses generated by airports, etc, etc. And now suddenly, aviation pays for it's own infrastructure. So for example, the new Brandenburg International airport, will it be completely paid by the industry? Will the government have a healthy ROI once the airport is fully operational?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
I don't see this tax coming unless other countries follow suit. It is a stupid tax because it drives business away from Germany and the result will be rather less than more state income. Politicians just don't understand how markets work.

That's what everyone says what happened in the Netherlands. Personally, I think claiming that the aviation tax was the reason that people started flying from across the border is just as short-sighted as claiming that aviation tax is a good means.

Most of the time people refer to the amount of Dutch travelers flying from Germany, the refer to the amount of Dutch people flying on FR from NRN. FR started a base here, around the same time the travel tax was introduced. This wasn't related: FR started the base after a German court decided that NRN was legally allowed to grow. The Dutch travel tax surely shifted the demand curve a bit, but the fact that suddenly there was a Ryanair base at NRN was more important than the travel tax.

Not that I agreed with the travel tax, though, but I think the effect on people driving across the border is greatly overestimated and the statistics are very much influenced by the fact the FR happened to open a new base at NRN. At most, the travel tax was a free advertisement for German and Belgian airports, and it made people to think out of the box and give flying from different airports a try.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8394 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):
Thorben - these are Mr. Bisignani's words, not mine. Further, you have taken that out of context and you should make that clear.

However, yes, he is right with this statement. Don't think too short, because you are mixing up a statement which came from IATA as well, but IIRC the day before the German Government invented the new tax. Which means, it is not legitimate to draw that conclusion, OK?

Yes, that is a statement from Mr. Bisignani, sorry. But is he correct about the fact that European carriers are the only ones to make an aggregated loss this year? Do North American carriers actually make a profit? With those losses we see all the time at UA, AA, and DL?


25 PanHAM : domestic air travel is subject to 19% VAT in Germany, indeed. International air cargo withoin the EU is subkject to 19% VAT as well, which is usually
26 vfw614 : Well, as every ticket will be 14 EUR more expensive, the good question is how desperately the world economy needs air travellers who will fly for 1 EU
27 Post contains images MaverickM11 : What about it is "environmental"? Does it actually go toward environmental causes or just to the general government fund? The tables have turned, and
28 r2rho : Great, yet another so-called "green" tax that, as with all the other green taxes, will go to plug holes in a mismanaged government budget. Aviation, w
29 DeltaMD90 : You know, there are people that don't want to waste money needlessly. Sure, when my dad and I go to Europe we spend a bit, but how much of that is ne
30 dazeflight : ^ If 15 Bucks are the reason to avoid Visiting Berlin or Dusseldorf, your personal interest in those cities is most likely close to nil. I think any c
31 robffm2 : Whatever the reason, it's a subsidy for air travel. And it has some logic to call this unfair.
32 ACDC8 : Its not LH specific, all airlines departing Germany would be subject to the tax. I'd be more than happy seeing those fares over here in Canada, hell
33 MaverickM11 : If you're deciding between DUS and AMS, fare may make your decision for you, regardless of what type of tourist you are. Higher fares (and visas) wil
34 Post contains images vfw614 : C,mon, you are flying TATL for a couple of hundred bucks and then tailor your schedule after what part of Europe is 14 EUR cheaper to reach? Just for
35 LJ : Do we already have a FR press release?? I can't wait what MOL has to say (and how creative its PR department is). As if the Dutch wouldn't re-introduc
36 Talaier : Seeing how the situation is in all of Europe, as it has been commented already I'm not expecting Germany to be the only one bringing in this tax. A "E
37 Post contains images CrimsonNL : Because we all know, if you just pay the 12 euro's on your ticket price, all of the environmental issues will just disappear!
38 LJ : However, if you add the costs for travelling to a certain airport (including parking etc.), EUR 14 isn't much. The only problem is that pax don't see
39 LH7879 : I'm 22, I'm a student, I work for the biggest peace of my living costs, and for sure don't have much. But I surely don't mind one or two 10€ more i
40 AirPacific747 : Well the German state has to get the money from somewhere. Otherwise you'd be paying the same tax on food for example, or clothing or whatever. I don
41 AirframeAS : Wow, sounds like blackmailing the industry. "Pay up or join this CO2 cult..." I'm guessing the latter.
42 MaverickM11 : ...where you'll end up paying through the nose anyway.
43 Thorben : Those 10€ are not the only thing the state takes away from me. It just keeps adding up. Concerning the drive to Hamburg - that is because fuel is s
44 TheSonntag : I tend to agree. I love flying for 19 EUR, but come on, this tax kills nobody. And you won't see 4U leaving CGN. If they were that stupid, FR would s
45 PanHAM : Again, not taxing something is not a subsidy. Taxation in an international environment is simply impossible. Aviation has followed the path of shippi
46 DAL763ER : You must be joking, right? It's 14 EUR, not a fortune, obviously. But why fork out the 14 euros on a darn tax that doesn't help anyone but politician
47 vfw614 : It does not help politicians, it helps your country from funding public services. That does not necessarily mean that there is no waste of government
48 MaverickM11 : I bet the airline industry is much more innovative because of all these taxes than many carbon emitting industries; it has certainly become much more
49 AirPacific747 : Well isn't that rather a matter of personal point of view? Or is that the general opinion amongst German people? Also I read somewhere that Germany n
50 TheSonntag : Yes, although that rediculous subsidy for Hotels and many other 7% charged goods should be axed first. In Denmark there is 25% on everything, its as
51 PanHAM : innovation has always been cost driven, without taxation. This tax interferes with corporate plannings, for LH it means the profit of a good year is
52 AirNZ : If it's a tax why would it not be included under 'Taxes and Fees'? What zero cost flying are you referring to?
53 shamrock604 : Im afraid we in Ireland have already had it for over a year now..... 10 euro per departing passenger. Wilkommen im Club.......;-(
54 MD11Engineer : The only reason the tax didn´t work in the Netherlands is that the country is so small, so that it is very easy to just get to an airport in a neighb
55 vfw614 : Plus, the tax is priced at a level at which making the trek to another country is rather uneconomical. 14 EUR do not get you very far with your car or
56 joost : It's fascinating how everyone's repeating IATA claiming the eco tax in the Netherlands didn't work, and that people massively drove to other countrie
57 vfw614 : I think it is also useful to have in mind that the level of airport fees already is so different that 14 EUR really should not make a difference. Ther
58 CaptainCrackers : To be honest, I don't think this is so bad. All the other major forms of transport are subject to fuel tax in Germany, and it frankly seems fair to ex
59 Burkhard : Both :lol: . The generation of my son and my students is grown up with the internet, on which many things ( including this forum ) are free that woul
60 joost : It depends of course on the way how they will define the tax. When the tax is on the departing passenger (like in the Netherlands and the UK), the bu
61 PanHAM : It is an additional tax in an already over taxed business. Airlines in Germany pay 3,3 Billion euros per year in taxes and user fees, and that is not
62 vfw614 : By what taxes exactly that are airline specific (other than "taxes" made up by the airlines themselves...)?
63 CaptainCrackers : I don't know why you mention corporate tax or personal income tax paid by employees when trying to make a case for airlines being overtaxed, given th
64 LJ : If that really happened the hotels upped their prices by 10%, not something which has to do with the government.. Simple question. Does this tax also
65 vfw614 : I have not seen any details, but I doubt it, given the estimated figures: If they would tax transfer passengers, the earnings would be above the figur
66 DAL763ER : Oh please, no one has to increase the income tax, VAT and the likes. And if VAT were increased, would it make that much of a difference if it's not 1
67 Thorben : Does it actually have a benefit? I mean, what is the ecological use of this "ecological fee"? It is too low to prevent people from flying, but there
68 vfw614 : Not sure how it is the UK, but in Germany the MPs get 7.600 EUR a month, which is fully taxable (so you can slash approx. a third). Assume that we cu
69 Thorben : Brilliant explanation why politics is so full of losers. If you add the inability of politics to make decisions - compared to businesses - it'll get
70 PanHAM : zero I am fully with you. I just meant , we pay so much through our noses, personally I would not go extra lenghts to save 14€, still the fee is ba
71 r2rho : Concentrating the debate on how much the 14EUR will mean in comparison to the base fare is getting lost in details and missing the big issue here. The
72 Post contains images ACDC8 : Die Prinzen said it best ... "Die Steuern hier sind Weltrekord" ... Still, for me, an extra few Euros on a $1000 airfare isn't that bad (mind you I'm
73 mrocktor : Ah yes, purchasing indulgences to pay for your environmental sins. Now by government decree. Nothing new under the Sun indeed.
74 Post contains images vfw614 : It is all in the interest of our overseas visitors - the other option would be introducing a general highway toll (that already exists for trucks) whi
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