scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13402 times:
330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 504 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13299 times:
What is the fleet status from TAM now? I mean actual operated aircraft and outstanding orders/deliveries. As per airfleets.net, only 1 more 330 to be delivered.
Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13168 times:
Quoting 330lover (Reply 2): What is the fleet status from TAM now? I mean actual operated aircraft and outstanding orders/deliveries. As per airfleets.net, only 1 more 330 to be delivered.
According to the Airbus O&D they have the following outstanding:
Quoting 330lover (Reply 2): What is the fleet status from TAM now?
TAM 2010 fleet:
4 B77W
3 B763
2 A345
18 A332
7 A321 (2 yet to be delivered in 2010)
84 A320 (3 yet to be delivered in 2010)
25 A319 (1 yet to be delivered in 2010)
Total: 143 (+ 5 ATR42)
hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12746 times:
Quoting RodRB (Reply 6): However, in my view they will need more long haul aircrafts to make GIG-JFK and the new flights to Europe (GIG-FRA/LHR) daily.
TAM is getting a further 2 A332s in 2012. I dont think GIG-FRA/LHR will be expanded until 2012. The additional A332 will certainly allow for GIG-FRA/LHR to become daily.
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11952 posts, RR: 37 Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11622 times:
With the strong growth in the Brazilian economy (thanks to a major oil find), you have to count TAM as a potential A380 customer at some stage over the next few years.
Quote: TAM Airlines, Airbus’ biggest customer in the southern hemisphere and Brazil’s largest airline company, announced today an order for 20 new Airbus A320 Family and five A350-900 aircraft, bringing the Brazilian airline’s total Airbus orders to 176 aircraft, including 134 A320 Family, 15 A330-200s and 27 A350 XWB aircraft. The Memorandum of Understanding outlining the order was signed during the ILA Air Show in Berlin.
Panman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 789 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10964 times:
Quoting solnabo (Reply 7): Sorry if I sound senile but where are the A345s , baking in the sun?
143 planes, that's some growth there. Good that TAM has settled for the A350 for it's longhaul ops over the 787. Are those ATR's owned by TAM or by a regional subisidiary?
incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10645 times:
Quoting hardiwv (Reply 5): Thanks for the news, this will keep boosting TAM expansion.
But the wide-body order book at TAM in insufficient to keep up with long-haul demand. Some of the A330s are not very new anymore. Either foreign airlines will continue to gain ground in Brazil or GOL is going to get a big wide-body order and enter the US/Europe market. My count was very quick but it seems TP + IB have more flights to Brazil than TAM has to all of Europe.
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10292 times:
Talaier
These ATRs come from Pantanal.TAM has bought this small airline 3 months ago.Not sure they are in TAM cs.
Last but not least , TAM CEO declared in Air&Cosmos , he still has an eye open on the A380 , but it's too early to order it right now.
Probably the day LH and AF will fly it to Brasil , TAM will follow...........
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6875 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10153 times:
Quoting FCKC (Reply 21): Last but not least , TAM CEO declared in Air&Cosmos , he still has an eye open on the A380 , but it's too early to order it right now.
Probably the day LH and AF will fly it to Brasil , TAM will follow...........
TAM is in a tough position for VLA aircraft (same as SA), because they are predominantly a O&D carrier. Their respective hubs do not allow for intercontinental connections. So TAM's future is entirely dependent and linked to the economic future of Brazil and S.America.
CFBFrame From United States of America, joined May 2009, 531 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9854 times:
Quoting airbazar (Reply 23): So TAM's future is entirely dependent and linked to the economic future of Brazil and S.America.
Is that any different from other parts of the world?
Another A350XWB w/o a firm commitment for the -1000. Not a good thing for the program. Airbus should consider upping the -900 so it can address a larger part of the market. May be too late for that tyoe of mod.
25 hardiwv: TAM will order the A380 in a couple of years from now. Owned by Pantanal and will be phased out. I would not rule this out. Brazil needs another long
26 laca773: in regards to the 320 order, will this be a combination, or soley the mid sized 320?
27 LipeGIG: Big mistake not to order more WB's for short term. The market is in need of flights, there's some potential new routes and the need to increase servi
28 Thorben: But with GRU they have a hub that is a gateway (from Europe) to Brasil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia, and Chile, that is 270 million people
29 LipeGIG: Could be a mix of 319/320/321. If Brazil had a single hub, yes, but it's impossible to deal with a single hub in a country that demands so much air t
30 ElbowRoom: A350-1000s are less defined at this stage, planned to EIS later, have more risk attached to the performance figures if some contributors here are rig
31 hardiwv: You said it all. It agains shows the importance of hubing operations. TAM is no Gulf carrier. I am sure TAM management knows best, especially with so
32 incitatus: This 56% measure is really misleading! A big chunk of it is TP. If TAM even smaller than TP in Brazil-Europe? And please consider that there is no Br
33 Chiad: LOL. Did you just write that getting 5 firm orders for the A359 is not good for the A350 program?
34 EPA001: Another very good message for Airbus and TAM and RR. Although the order is almost blown away by the EK 32 A380's order, also this order is excellent n
35 motorhussy: So no possibility of a GRU-AKL-SYD route instead?
36 C010T3: Do count on those, but despite them, TAM is actually still able to increase frequencies. 332 flights GRU-CDG - 4 frames GRU-MAD - 2 GRU-JFK - 2 GRU-M
37 LipeGIG: Exactly why they need WB's. They are in a South American Country, far from Europe, Asia, Africa and North America and without any chance to run narro
38 CFBFrame: No, I did not say exactly. The A350-900 has come as a standard order, my concern is that no one is going to the -1000. I appreciate ElbowRoom's comme
39 LipeGIG: These planes come to JJ step into Africa (JNB) but the analysis do not convince them to launch the route. They never consider the possibility of AKL
40 vin2basketball: This is word for word a blog that I posted earlier today about the order, please tell me what you think! "With the aviation world abuzz over Emirates
41 LipeGIG: Good resume about TAM but i still believe they could do more ! Their long haul expansion is very slow compared to the growth of the Brazilian market a
42 mariner: Why do you say "Whalejets" when you have to explain what a "Whalejet" is immediately afterwards? mariner
43 VC10er: I have never understood the TAM 777 order. I have flown one in business and she was a beauty, but they are to Airbus what CO is to Boeing....except fo
44 PM: "The new A350-900 aircraft will be powered by Rolls Royce engines." http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...ews[backPid]=1683&cHash=12e184490e I be
45 C010T3: Well, one detail about that all is that they could already in August transform thatsingle daylight JFK-GIG in overnight. Moreover, if they were reall
46 PM: Because Airbus have nothing that can do what the 777-300ER can do.
47 C010T3: Actually, 4 77W and 3 763 today, but 10 77W and 3 763 by 2013.
48 LipeGIG: They could but i doubt they will do it. I rather see a GIG-MAO daylight with the A332. Problem is JJ is too committed to Airbus to think about take i
49 C010T3: What exactly? The 763 rotation or the overnight Sunday JFK-GIG? There will be two 332 parked the whole day at GIG. Take your pick.
50 hardiwv: If this leads TAM to make profit, this is part of the business game. I still think that instead of growing and growing TAM needs to devote more atten
51 C010T3: I think that you need an appointment at the ophthalmologist ASAP. In 2011, TAM will have 20 332 in fleet. Do not forget the destinations to which JJ
52 Thorben: Any idea who will take them? Because it is not wise to have a 200+ fleet from only one of the two big manufacturers. The 77W has some commonality wit
53 robffm2: If I remember correctly TAM was some years ago in urgent need of more WB planes and the only ones available were some MD11 standing with Boeing. Boei
54 Dellatorre: Greetings everyone!!! Well, I must say that JJ's order is a little bit conservative, just like the airline's strategy in the int'l front. They certain
55 C010T3: Rumour has it that TAM was pleasantly surprised with their performance, so there is no need to replace them, since the competition on the routes that
56 hardiwv: Indeed, I mixed it up, but this leaves 2 new frames for next year, ie 2011. But to the majority of destinations TAM supplies more seats now than RG:
57 robffm2: Good to know that these planes perform well for TAM. I was looking at the issue more from a fleet perspective. Three planes seem to be a small subfle
58 hardiwv: What is the delivery schedule of the recent A350 order, it seems the first A350 commercial flight will take place in 2013? The presentation is dated
59 LipeGIG: The daylight sunday JFK-GIG Some days it will be 3 and there are rumors about the end of the tag GIG-GRU on the JJ8054/JJ8055 as they will move one A
60 airbazar: Yes very different. Do you think EK is ordering 90 A380's to fly people in and out of Dubai? Airlines like BA/AF/LH are ordering A380's and 748i's be
61 hardiwv: Small?? You must be kidding!!! What other markets in the world offer such huge growth potential. See the astronomical growth figures of the Brazilian
62 Thorben: That market has a lot of potential. Bolivia and Paraguay are very poor countries, no doubt, but Chile, Argentina and Uruguay have a GDP per capita so
63 airbazar: I understand that but it's an incredible risk to be buying an A380 fleet based on a potential that may never materialize. There are airlines in India
64 hardiwv: Your same reasoning could have applied to the Gulf carriers, their A380 order is based on potential growth which may never materialise... In my view
65 LipeGIG: It's not a matter of being big or small, it's a matter of economic ties. South America do not use to be global, and it's still a local "business". Th
66 jmbarros12: Did you mean 2 more B77W? A total of 6 frames on order? I was pretty sure that TAM had another 4 frames on order only...
67 airbazar: No it's not the same thing. The Gulf carriers are tapping a market that already existed, like the Kangaroo route for example, by undercutting fares a
68 hardiwv: Yes, 6 B77W to be delivered in 2012 (4) and 2013 (2). I disagree. The market is there now (see new frequencies and capacity announced month after mon
69 C010T3: Well, you started it in the first place. Well, I agree, but I sense that TAM still hasn't ordered all the widebodies that it plans to. That's why the
70 LipeGIG: Even A320 order... i would say it make more sense to order E-Jets and use them to create peak time new routes, while off-peak they would fly routes w
71 incitatus: I am surprised at your stance. Counting on protectionism to stay viable may be legal but not honorable. According to information released by TAM, the
72 Thorben: Why is JJ actually not flying to LIS? That seems weird for a Brazilian airline.
73 hardiwv: Today is elections day and I think the Dutch are becoming less liberals...Seriously, as you said, it is legal and if the Government fails to provide
75 LipeGIG: How to compete with TP so well established at LIS ? Many would say with an overnight, but you would need to rely just on O&D. Could be an interes
76 Thorben: JJ would have the advantage of their network in Brazil, TP has the advantage of the network in Europe. However, they are both Star Alliance and when
77 LipeGIG: The advantage of the network in Brazil is not the case when an airline offers GIG, CNF, BSB, SSA, NAT, VCP, FOR and REC now and can even enter into P
78 EPA001: The -1000 is at least 7 years away for a new customer if the plane is introduced in 2015 and the first ordered copies (about 70) are produced for the
79 golli: Not correct, in my view. Just the sheer number of N/B's, operated (and on order) by JJ & G3, suggests that there is more to serve than just in an
80 CYatUK: Possibly not direclty relevant to the TAM order but I have just noticed that Airbus have a Press conference event scheduled for today (10/06/10) at ~B
81 LipeGIG: Despite their fleet plan says the opposite, i do see chances for the use of these 2 A345 and as you mentioned even more.
82 incitatus: I did a back of the envelope calculation comparing a market where TAM may fly two A330s or a 77W a day. If time of departure is not a big factor and
83 LipeGIG: You're 100% right. Plus, if we consider as example CDG: TAM flies from Sao Paulo 446 daily seats with average 70% load. That's 310 seats a day. The 7
84 hardiwv: The double daily CDG-GRU fly almost the same schedule and dont even benefit from different connection hub. The only benefit of TAM operating the two
85 Glareskin: Or probably WAS lacking that. The fact that they have ordered the A350 in two portions makes me believe that somebody at TAM is thinking of the long-
86 LipeGIG: Still they are reacting on the short term... it took 6 months to realize the market is growing quicker than expected and soon they will have no big i
87 Glareskin: This could be true. Or they see a different, more modest, growth than you. Don't forget there is also competition that is growing in the Brazilian lo
88 LipeGIG: The competition is growing because TAM is not able to provide services to secondary markets and they keep their focus just on the prime locations (JF
89 Glareskin: And you could add AMS to your list. Myself I fly 6 - 9 times per year to Brasil and next to the direct KL flight (which is always full) I use TAP thro
90 LipeGIG: Agree with you, i forgot to include Holland / Netherlands on the list, and again it's another chance lost by TAM as probably next year KL will close
91 hardiwv: TAM CEO is flying to Airbus HQ to negotiate another A330 for TAM fleet, probably to implement JFK-GIG daily(?). http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t..
92 C010T3: I read that, but I think it doesn't make sense. If he's going to negotiate, it's not one single 332, but at least a pair. But, you know, Panrotas jou
93 hardiwv: In addition, I would say that it does not look TAM PR to leak information that TAM executive would fly to Airbus HQ to negotiate a "single" A330...it
94 LipeGIG: It's just to bring one A332 to Brazil, i think they got confused on the terms. They would not say that the reason is to negotiate 1 plane, specially
95 hardiwv: Avoid the A332? Why? Its 2 x 2 x 2 layout in J is great. On the other hand I know a lot of people who would migrate from AF to KL to avoid connecting
96 C010T3: It's not a question of comfort or quality. People are still afraid of the 332 because of AF447.
97 hardiwv: Please...this is nonsense. Maybe they avoid AF A332 and end up flying with TAP A332 Rgs,
98 C010T3: But not on my part. I fly any 332 any day with great pleasure.
99 LipeGIG: That's from comments on forums and corporations. There are people that would fly B772 or B744 over the A332. It's not trying to argue A vs B, it's a
100 Glareskin: What?? I cannot immage Maxima or Wim-Lex can or will take any influence in this, apart from the fact that AF/KL is a private company. Plus AMS-GIG-EZ
101 hardiwv: They do, and they participate in various functions of AF/KL group, there is always private interest in business decision making. It has been said Max
102 Glareskin: There is nothing wrong with lobbying but I don't think it is appropiate for the royal family to lobby for personal interests. And especially in the D
103 hardiwv: They can express their opinion though. After all, KLM is still Royal Dutch Airines, right? I personally think AMS-GIG dedicated has better chances to
104 Glareskin: Of course they can! And we all know how charming Maxima can be. After all, if she gets questions afterwards she can just say 'het was een beetje dom'
105 hardiwv: KL still has in place its domestic codeshares with TAM while AF is codesharing with GOL. I think KLM will migrate its codeshare to GOL by end of 2010
106 LipeGIG: Guys, it all depends on the schedule. If KL decides to compete with overnight flights, EZE got it chance but in my view GIG have a big advantage as it
107 Glareskin: Exactly, that is why I asked about the code share. That makes sence to me. After all TAM is the other side now. Any chance GOL will join Sky Team?
108 hardiwv: KL morning long-haul hub bank is better. Anyway, at this stage it is all speculation, since there is nothing concrete. The only announcement is more
109 LipeGIG: Correct, but what i mentioned was round trip consideration. Lets wait and see as i believe it's something for 2011, may be.
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