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Avianca Invest USD1.5 Bi In Brazilian Subsidiary  
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

According to reliable source in Brazil (Exame Magazine) Avianca will invest USD1.5 billion in its subsidiary Avianca Brazil (formely known as OceanAir) over the next 4 years. It plans to reach end 2010 with 4% of Brazilian market (about the same Azul and Webjet currently have).

http://portalexame.abril.com.br/nego...hao-quatro-anos-brasil-568171.html

Avianca Brazil plans to launch international routes from Brazil at an initial stage focusing on the regional South American market.

Rgs,

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8557 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5444 times:
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It will be interesting to see what JJ think of this . If AV/TA want to join *A ( yes , I know *A membership is still a rumour rather than an established fact ) don't they have to be unanimously voted in ? I guess if AV keeps Avianca Brasil to around 4% of the Brazilian market JJ won't mind too much , but if they want to grow them significantly it might annoy JJ a bit .


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5301 times:

Very interesting article. So Avianca Brasil won't enter a price war, that's smart, specially since the colombian division is in the middle of one. Efromovich doesn't specify where those 1.5 billion dollars will go except for saying "new aircraft". How many A319s will AV Brasil get in 2011?

He talks about Ecuador. A route to UIO or GYE codeshared with Aerogal could be in the making.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5284 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Thread starter):
Avianca Brazil plans to launch international routes from Brazil at an initial stage focusing on the regional South American market.

Good to see, but i have doubt about where they will fly. I do think BOG is the place that makes the more sense, to use AV structure there, or LIM, to use TA structure, but they already have 7x BOG-GRU that could become 14x with overnight GRU-BOG, daylight BOG-GRU, and 14x LIM-GRU plus 7x LIM-GIG and 3x LIM-POA.

Ah, They just lost their allocation of Colombia-Brazil frequencies.

http://www.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/decisoes/2010/DA2010-0080.pdf

It seems they will need to compete with TAM.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Ah, They just lost their allocation of Colombia-Brazil frequencies.

http://www.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/decisoes/2010/DA2010-0080.pdf

It seems they will need to compete with TAM.

It makes sense. I question whether ANAC would authorise extra frequencies to AV on GRU-BOG as it would keep AV monopoliy on the route. I think TAM will get the frequencies and start BOG by end of August.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Good to see, but i have doubt about where they will fly. I do think BOG is the place that makes the more sense, to use AV structure there, or LIM, to use TA structure

As you said, LIM and BOG because of AV/TA hubs. I also think SJO (TA hub) and GYE-UIO (Aerogal) could provide interesting connections.

Once the 12 787s on order start arriving I would not rule out long-haul operations.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
If AV/TA want to join *A

This perhaps will make things difficult. One way or another, if AV/TA gets into *A that will be the end of JJ alliance with LA. Dont forget that AV was present during TAM membership in *A last month hence it must have received an invitation from TAM.

Rgs,

[Edited 2010-06-10 08:19:36]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5186 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Reply 4):
As you said, LIM and BOG because of AV/TA hubs. I also think SJO (TA hub) and GYE-UIO (Aerogal) could provide interesting connections.

SJO is too far for the A319 and may be not so premium for the B787, in my view. GYE/UIO can work with A319.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 4):
Once the 12 787s on order start arriving I would not rule out long-haul operations

I see more long haul from BOG and LIM where they have a very strong competitive position.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 4):
It makes sense. I question whether ANAC would authorise extra frequencies to AV on GRU-BOG as it would keep AV monopoliy on the route. I think TAM will get the frequencies and start BOG by end of August

Yes, but i can see a potential move... if AV says they will start BOG-GIG, they will got it easily. Anything different from Sao Paulo would lead to the frequencies to be allocated to AV, if they try Sao Paulo as you pointed out, ANAC would go for the competition.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Thread starter):
its subsidiary Avianca Brazil (formely known as OceanAir)

Technically, Avianca Brazil is not a subsidiary of Avianca, it's a franchise. They do have partially the same ownership, but that's about it. I'm not even sure that Avianca holds any shares of O6 at all.


User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5135 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
SJO is too far for the A319 and may be not so premium for the B787
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
I see more long haul from BOG and LIM where they have a very strong competitive position

You are right.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
if AV says they will start BOG-GIG, they will got it easily

I dont think they will move into BOG-GIG because Avianca base in Rio is in SDU; Avianca has no flight in GIG. Maybe BSB-BOG, but I still think that by any means ANAC will give frequencies to TAM on competition grounds regardless of proposed routing.

http://www.avianca.com.br/empresa/site/mapaderotas.asp

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5106 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 7):
because Avianca base in Rio is in SDU

Well, AV/O6 have kept their shared infrastructure at GIG intact since O6 moved all flights to SDU.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 7):
Avianca has no flight in GIG.

O6 has requested a daily GRU-GIG-BSB flight for July, so here you go. Moreover, TA flies to GIG, so they could all consolidate.

[Edited 2010-06-10 10:10:54]

User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
O6 has requested a daily GRU-GIG-BSB flight for July
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
Well, AV/O6 have kept their shared infrastructure at GIG intact since O6 moved all flights to SDU.

My point was not so much about AV ground structure at GIG (which as you said AV could use TA) or simply outsource, but rather the unexistant network available in GIG. A single flight to GRU and BSB is hardly a network (in fact, we are speaking about BSB because GRU already gets BOG service), although BOG connections and O&D may warrant the flight.

As I said before, in my opinion TAM will get the frequencies regardeless of routing on competition grounds.

My tentative JJ schedule to BOG
JJ XXX GRU 18.30 BOG 22.30
JJ XXX BOG 23.30 GRU 05.30

The schedule is much superior to AV which has early morning GRU departing meaning weak connections (the only connection AV gets in GRU is the 06.00 SDU-GRU flight).

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 9):
but rather the unexistant network available in GIG

I'm sorry, but O6 does not operate hub at GRU. All flights are scattered throughout the day. The only thing close to a hub bank is practised at BSB, so I really don't see you point.
Moreover, the times in which the AV flight arrive and depart don't see many connecting opportunities on O6 other than SDU both-ways and POA only one-way. The connecting passengers totally rely on JJ and G3, which is something that can be done at GIG as well.
But, let's imagine that they start using BSB's O6 hub bank. What destinations are there?

Mid-morning arrival from BOG:
FOR, JDO, GRU, SSA and AJU

Late afternoon arrival from BOG:
SDU, CGH, CNF, GRU and CGB

Noon departure to BOG:
CNF, CGB, GRU, CGH, SDU

Mid-evening departure to BOG:
AJU, FOR, JDO, SSA, GRU

In the end, you can only offer both-ways connections to GRU. How about that? And how does that fit into AV's BOG hub banks schedules?


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4821 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 10):
In the end, you can only offer both-ways connections to GRU. How about that? And how does that fit into AV's BOG hub banks schedules?

BOG has two main departure banks form international flights: morning and evening. Domestic flights operate with enough frequency to most destinations so that connections don't take over three hours at any time of the day.

As the flight is coming from the south, it would be preferable for it to arrive in BOG at around 8pm so that passengers can catch flights to UIO, GYE, JFK, SJO, MEX, CCS, MAD and BCN, with domestic connections still available to MDE, CLO, CTG, BAQ and PEI. I'm guessing flight time from BOG to BSB is around four and a half hours, so a 4pm arrival to BSB with a 5pm departure to BOG would be the best.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4719 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Reply 9):
As I said before, in my opinion TAM will get the frequencies regardeless of routing on competition grounds.

I wouldn't say that. ANAC have a clear focus on flights outside of Sao Paulo. Lets wait and see how AV Brasil will react and what do they will ask. I rather see them keeping their competitive advantage with a GIG-BOG rather than ask a flight they will not get and will then delivery competition to their flight.
If they want to see competition, it's easy, just apply for GRU-BOG and allow TAM to join their party.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 10):
In the end, you can only offer both-ways connections to GRU. How about that? And how does that fit into AV's BOG hub banks schedules?

We have to think about the fact that AV also carry connections even to MIA, FLL and others.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
We have to think about the fact that AV also carry connections even to MIA, FLL and others.

That's what's important, not the connections that can be offered in Brazil. That's why it is not important if O6 operates at that airport or not. That's why GIG cannot be ruled out.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4526 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 13):
That's what's important, not the connections that can be offered in Brazil. That's why it is not important if O6 operates at that airport or not. That's why GIG cannot be ruled out.

Correct. But with Colombia investing a lot in Oil (an Open Oil Session was held in Rio de Janeiro for that reason), as well as with Petrobras, Vale and EBX Group (the mining/oil/everything bilionaire investor) investing there, O&D will be strong enough to support the route, not to consider the sizeable leisure demand



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
Correct. But with Colombia investing a lot in Oil (an Open Oil Session was held in Rio de Janeiro for that reason), as well as with Petrobras, Vale and EBX Group (the mining/oil/everything bilionaire investor) investing there, O&D will be strong enough to support the route, not to consider the sizeable leisure demand

I agree totally, I know a lot of people in the oil industry and can say for a fact that CM is cashing in on the PTY-GIG route, bringing people to and from BOG permanently and with prices than run on the ridicolous side. Obviously oil people tend to travel on last minute notice and oil companies pay what ever. So definitelly a BOG-GIG route would easily become a profitable one. Most of the oil people that I know of are now reporting to Rio and not to Caracas as many oil multinationals have moved their LATAM regional to Rio de Janeiro.


User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
ANAC have a clear focus on flights outside of Sao Paulo

I really do not see this "clear focus" except for Brazil-US. On the contrary, basically all airlines are getting new slots in GRU everytime they apply sometimes at prime slots (see LY).

Quoting bogota (Reply 15):
can say for a fact that CM is cashing in on the PTY-GIG route

Nonetheless CM decided for a 3rd daily GRU-PTY.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
If they want to see competition, it's easy, just apply for GRU-BOG and allow TAM to join their party.

Competition is one of the factors important to be considered. Opening new routes another one.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
Colombia investing a lot in Oil (an Open Oil Session was held in Rio de Janeiro for that reason), as well as with Petrobras, Vale and EBX Group (the mining/oil/everything bilionaire investor) investing there
Quoting bogota (Reply 15):
So definitelly a BOG-GIG route would easily become a profitable one. Most of the oil people that I know of are now reporting to Rio and not to Caracas as many oil multinationals have moved their LATAM regional to Rio de Janeiro.

By no means I question your statements, which is totally correct. However, I still see JJ GRU-BOG as the target market.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
We have to think about the fact that AV also carry connections even to MIA, FLL and others.

Not only US destinations such as FLL or MIA or even JFK, but as mentioned above AV flight fits with its hub in BOG allowing for many other popular connections including MEX, Andean countries, intra-Colombia, Central America, and Caribbean.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4148 times:
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Quoting bogota (Reply 15):
I agree totally, I know a lot of people in the oil industry and can say for a fact that CM is cashing in on the PTY-GIG route, bringing people to and from BOG permanently and with prices than run on the ridicolous side.

Not only BOG, but also CCS, UIO and MEX. If you look into it, will realize that CM got the oil markets as there's no direct (non-stop) connection between these markets and Rio de Janeiro, despite the huge recent economic growth.

Quoting bogota (Reply 15):
Most of the oil people that I know of are now reporting to Rio and not to Caracas as many oil multinationals have moved their LATAM regional to Rio de Janeiro.

This is a continuous situation due to the fact that Brazil offers much more opportunities right now for the oil industry. Rio has become the capital of oil in the Southern Hemisphere.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 16):
By no means I question your statements, which is totally correct. However, I still see JJ GRU-BOG as the target market

And i still see that AV would not allow JJ to be with the advantage of access the frequencies

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 16):
Not only US destinations such as FLL or MIA or even JFK, but as mentioned above AV flight fits with its hub in BOG allowing for many other popular connections including MEX, Andean countries, intra-Colombia, Central America, and Caribbean

True, and that's why i believe make more sense to attract another market.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 16):
Nonetheless CM decided for a 3rd daily GRU-PTY.

GRU-PTY carry a lot of connections to the United States, and mostly are passengers from outside Sao Paulo. They looked for the potential revenue.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

TAM confirms it is waiting for ANAC approval to operate GRU-BOG in 2-class A320 daily. The route would start about 5 months after approval by regulatory body as involved opening office and recruiting ground staff in BOG.

http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t...-anac-para-voos-diarios_58753.html

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 18):
TAM confirms it is waiting for ANAC approval to operate GRU-BOG in 2-class A320 daily. The route would start about 5 months after approval by regulatory body as involved opening office and recruiting ground staff in BOG.

I really wonder what triggered the ANAC to strip the frequencies from O6. TAM must really have them in the bag now, otherwise they wouldn't have said anything further publicly.


User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 19):
I really wonder what triggered the ANAC to strip the frequencies from O6. TAM must really have them in the bag now

This was so unprofessional, it shows the level of influence (or corruption) of TAM in ANAC...just shows how the game is not played fair. The whole process was really weird, you announce something through the official gazete and then change decision overnight...really does not seem there is a proper institutional framework in place...

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 20):
This was so unprofessional, it shows the level of influence (or corruption) of TAM in ANAC...

We don't know the whole story, so it's not like we can accuse the ANAC of anything yet.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3835 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Reply 18):
TAM confirms it is waiting for ANAC approval to operate GRU-BOG in 2-class A320 daily. The route would start about 5 months after approval by regulatory body as involved opening office and recruiting ground staff in BOG.
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 19):
I really wonder what triggered the ANAC to strip the frequencies from O6. TAM must really have them in the bag now, otherwise they wouldn't have said anything further publicly

I don't know what happen, but it seems to me that they promise something to AV for the future which could be the next year frequencies.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8808 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3804 times:
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Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I guess if AV keeps Avianca Brasil to around 4% of the Brazilian market JJ won't mind too much , but if they want to grow them significantly it might annoy JJ a bit .

If AV/TA joins the same alliance as TAM, then I assume that Avianca Brasil would also belong to that alliance and codeshare with JJ. TAM knows that their long-term future international growth will be limited and it might be a way of "controlling" Avianca Brasil in terms of their expansion plans; especially international routes.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 16):

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
We have to think about the fact that AV also carry connections even to MIA, FLL and others.

Not only US destinations such as FLL or MIA or even JFK, but as mentioned above AV flight fits with its hub in BOG allowing for many other popular connections including MEX, Andean countries, intra-Colombia, Central America, and Caribbean.

Those routes operated to the U.S. are VFR routes. IMO, AV needs to add more non-stop flights between BOG and cities in North America. However, it will only happen when Colombia has an Open Skies Treaty with the U.S. Also
in the Caribbean, AV only operates into AZA, AUA, CUR, and SDQ.


Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Quoting bogota (Reply 15):
I agree totally, I know a lot of people in the oil industry and can say for a fact that CM is cashing in on the PTY-GIG route, bringing people to and from BOG permanently and with prices than run on the ridicolous side.

Not only BOG, but also CCS, UIO and MEX. If you look into it, will realize that CM got the oil markets as there's no direct (non-stop) connection between these markets and Rio de Janeiro, despite the huge recent economic growth.

When LP starts LIM-GIG, LP will offer rapid connections onto daily non-stop flights to BOG, CCS, GYE, MEX, and UIO via LIM.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3791 times:
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Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
When LP starts LIM-GIG, LP will offer rapid connections onto daily non-stop flights to BOG, CCS, GYE, MEX, and UIO via LIM.

Up to a point that an airline realizes that there's a lot of oil activity in Rio and it's bringing business demand up very strongly. Today i was in a meeting with the energy team of one of the largest European Banks in New York and they were fascinated by the Petrobras University (PUN) and the Research Area that Federal University of Rio is developing with Petrobras and already attracted five major players, creating more than 3,000 qualified jobs in R&D, trying to make Rio's advantages on off-shore drilling and research even stronger. PUN will prepare thousands of employees during the next 10 years and will provide taillored services to foreign corporations.

Regarding LIM-GIG, it's expected to be launched by September AFAIK... but the minister of tourism told that it will come with a potential surprise.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
If AV/TA joins the same alliance as TAM, then I assume that Avianca Brasil would also belong to that alliance and codeshare with JJ. TAM knows that their long-term future international growth will be limited and it might be a way of "controlling" Avianca Brasil in terms of their expansion plans; especially international routes.

And it makes more sense to create a BOG-GIG in the future.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 hardiwv : And yields for AV connections via BOG to the US are very low, especially because the Brazil-US market is now well covered with dedicated service. LP
26 SCL767 : LAN will operate two new non-stop routes into GIG by January. In November LAN Perú will launch both LIM-GIG and LIM-ASU. A daily flight would be nec
27 LipeGIG : They told me about a third route and that a widebodie is in consideration for LIM-GIG. So would be ASU-GIG ? I hope it come as SCL-ASU-GIG and SCL-GI
28 SCL767 : No, LAN isn't considering operating ASU-GIG. LAN will continue to add new international routes in Brazil. LAN should eventually operate SCL-GIG, LIM-
29 LipeGIG : Thanks for clarifying , i got confused when you said about two routes into GIG I hope so. I see good potential in Brazil for LA, specially if they co
30 SCL767 : LAN Argentina would prefer to operate most regional flights out of AEP, (AEP-BSB, AEP-SSA, AEP-REC, AEP-POA, AEP-MVD, etc.). However, that is a probl
31 hardiwv : I mean, this is pure speculation as a eventual tie up between AV/TA and JJ is not certain, and they compete in the Brazilian market. LAN has no chanc
32 Post contains links RCS763AV : Avianca's US routes are not VFR-only. MIA and JFK have two daily flights each which connect to the two main hub baks at BOG, and have seats available
33 LipeGIG : Hardi, don't you think an airline like LA is able to deal with a massive investment if they want ? I said 10, but with 4 or 5 they can easily begin an
34 SJOtoLIR : TA GIG-LIM is currently capable to offer these destinations through LIM besides Mexico City. . TA and JJ sustained an agreement in the past but it wa
35 LipeGIG : MEX is covered at this point by CM with a better schedule and one stop. In fact, LA, TA and CM realize that GIG is the biggest airport in South Ameri
36 Post contains links hardiwv : As expected, GRU-BOG will be operated by TAM starting December 2010. I still think that the schedule I provided above will be the ideal one. http://w
37 Summa767 : Such schedule would certainly suit BOG, whose international terminal traffic eases a lot after 9.30pm as a few AV flights leave in its main bank. Sch
38 LipeGIG : The schedule mentioned by Hardi is good but the only potential problem is that, it's out of current GRU connections bank. I really doubt TAM will add
39 hardiwv : Lipe, your point is valid and I thought about it too. However, I think a route such as GRU-BOG has different profile because connections will mainly
40 LipeGIG : Was A320 before when launched, Hardi. The CCS flight in my view will feed BOG with GIG connections, also. Another reason for a late night departure.
41 SCL767 : Yes, SCL does, e.g. Sky Airline, TA operates into SCL at 2:30, CM at 4:00, AV 4:30, etc.
42 LipeGIG : Sorry, i was not clear. I was trying to say that the plane can't depart GRU late night going to MVD and SCL and arrive early morning because it's too
43 SCL767 : TA/AV have been utilizing the A319s on their routes into SCL as of late. Not comfy IMO. But from 5:30 onwards, LA/AA/IB's flights start to arrive en
44 Summa767 : But with BOG there is the problem with the time difference, especially so in the southern Summer: If a flight were to depart GRU at midnight in Decem
45 hardiwv : This is the same reason QR departs GRU at 3am. Exactly, I remember I did such calculation, which led me to define the schedule as I posted above. Cor
46 C010T3 : The 763 use is a recent development. TAM was flying the 320 nonstop between GRU and CCS for almost a year before the upgrade.
47 jfk777 : Boston would welcome service by Avianca. IF AV were to join SKYteam Atlanta would be a great addition too. The time has finally arrived when service
48 LipeGIG : Even with the stop at MAO, the plane leave GIG and GRU in time for early morning arrival at CCS. That's the same problem that happen to CCS with just
49 SCL767 : Regardless of timing, pax from SCL, and AEP/EZE destined to BOG will not go out of the way to connect on TAM. LAN operates 5 weekly nonstop flights b
50 LipeGIG : It depends on the fare, SCL767. There's a lof of EZE-MAD, there's EZE-CDG, there's EZE-MIA and JFK but still TAM attracts passengers! I agree is not
51 LipeGIG : Market Share Brazil-Colombia IATA BSP data (Airport IS) shows that currently Avianca has a 60% share of the O+D market with GOL a 27% share. 13% is sh
52 SCL767 : EZE-MAD is not a "high-yielding" route IMO. Hence BA's routing into EZE: LHR-GRU-EZE daily. Also, IB dominates the EZE-MAD route. AA operates MIA-EZE
53 Post contains links LipeGIG : In order to not keep the off topic discussion of TAM , please continue it here: TAM Files For GRU-BOG (by C010T3 Jul 3 2010 in Civil Aviation)
54 hardiwv : My question now that TAM confirmed GRU-BOG is whether AV will go ahead with a planned second daily BOG-GRU? TAM focus on BOG will be O&D BOG-GRU a
55 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : Both [G3/RG] and AV are operating the route and JJ GRU-BOG will also initiate the same segment shortly. Aires and AeroRepublica are getting rights fo
56 hardiwv : This means we might see 4 daily flights BOG-GRU. I expect AV to perhaps start GRU-UIO/GYE instead of a second daily AV BOG-GRU. Currently there is on
57 Post contains links hardiwv : AV Brazil gets its 3rd A319 (AVD) increasing the fleet to 17 airplanes. AV expected to get a 4th A319 to operate in Brazilian domestic routed by end 2
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