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DL Starts 4 New Citys From LAX And Adds More F.  
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9295 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14655 times:

DL to add F class to all routes over 750 miles.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...estic-apf-3237070114.html?x=0&.v=1

also DL today started LAX-SFO/BDL/CMH/RDU.


yep.
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14644 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL today started LAX-SFO/BDL/CMH/RDU

on June 15, 2010.. Delta celebrates 40 years of service at RDU. It would be momentous if on that day, they announce resumed service to SLC and the forward movement of the CDG flight. Or at least a 5x weekly SEA.

But congratulations to the Wedge on 40 years in the Triangle.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14635 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL today started LAX-SFO/BDL/CMH/RDU.

Re-re started  



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14476 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL to add F class to all routes over 750 miles.

How many routes over 750 miles have 50 seaters today? None of the four examples cited in the press release (ATL-ALB, CVG-DFW, DTW-SAT, MEM-BOS) does - and for any CR7 route, this is just repackaging of old news.

[Edited 2010-06-10 10:58:01]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6586 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14419 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
How many routes over 750 miles have 50 seaters today? None of the four examples cited in the press release (ATL-ALB, CVG-DFW, DTW-SAT, MEM-BOS) does - and for any CR7 route, this is just repackaging of old news.

This link provides a more comprehensive list:

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=133

Granted, it's not really all that many routes and is somewhat of a rehash of previous news. However, it is good to see DL get the CR2's off of any long routes.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14254 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):

This link provides a more comprehensive list:

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18...m=133

You know what route stands out among those? DCA-DSM? I mean all other routes are from hubs, and BOS-IND is at least between two focus cities, but with DL still trying to make a deal with US for the DCA/LGA slots, what's their incentive to upgrade DCA-DSM? Seems odd.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14235 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
However, it is good to see DL get the CR2's off of any long routes.

The following on that list have CRJs or ERJs today.

ATL-GRK: 2x
ATL-OMA: 1x
CVG-IAH: 3x
DTW-ICT: 2x
DTW-JAN: 3x
DTW-TUL: 3x
MEM-MFE: 3x
MEM-PHL: 2x
MSP-BHM: 1x
MSP-ROC: 1x
MSP-YXE: 4x
LGA-BHM: 2x
LGA-MSN: 1x
SLC-TUL: 2x
SLC-YVR: 1x
BOS-IND: 4x
DSM-DCA: 1x

Great news for all of these cities for sure and for the passenger experience in general, but I don't know that it's necessarily a good thing for DL to pin itself to no 50-seaters on routes greater than 750 miles. Is there really no route in the network (or no frequency on a route in the network) for which a CRJ/ERJ is the appropriate aircraft? The PR of this is for sure worth something, but it comes at the price of flexibility.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14152 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
You know what route stands out among those? DCA-DSM? I mean all other routes are from hubs, and BOS-IND is at least between two focus cities, but with DL still trying to make a deal with US for the DCA/LGA slots, what's their incentive to upgrade DCA-DSM? Seems odd.

DCA-DSM was flown by XJ CR9's for quite sometime before the merger.

They have already downgraded the amount of flights LAX-SFO, good to see the others restarting, but I am not sure LAX-SFO will last, but they could prove me wrong and if they do good for them.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13906 times:

CMH and RDU to LAX? On DL? I could see UA or maybe AA. Hope they work out!


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently onlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13847 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8):
CMH and RDU to LAX? On DL? I could see UA or maybe AA. Hope they work out!

Yep, but DL has a well known following in CMH and RDU, more so then UA in either and AA in CMH. The CMH will be operated with 737-800's and the RDU route with 319/320's



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6586 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13708 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
The PR of this is for sure worth something, but it comes at the price of flexibility.

True, though there's nothing to stop DL from going back to CRJ's on these routes. Few people will actually remember this PR.

Also, the economics of the 50 seater do start to deteriorate on trips > 750 miles, so restricting them to shorter routes may make sense anyway.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13652 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
Also, the economics of the 50 seater do start to deteriorate on trips > 750 miles, so restricting them to shorter routes may make sense anyway.

Correct. Also, to the extent that the 50 seat fleet is getting closer to being right-sized from the removal of F8 and the Saabs, they actually might not have the 50 seat lift to fly a bunch of long flights.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
True, though there's nothing to stop DL from going back to CRJ's on these routes. Few people will actually remember this PR.

  



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 969 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13440 times:
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Also with the start of today's schedule, an additional 2 5500-series 757s have been sent to storage. This leaves 15 in the active fleet, with 6 of these still in NW colors.

User currently offlinecesarv777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13288 times:

[quote=GSPSPOT,reply=10]CMH and RDU to LAX? On DL?

Didn't Delta recently operate RDU - LAX?


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13214 times:

No CR7 or CR9 love for FWA, yet the likes of DSM, PWM, and ROC get them? Geez.

But, then again, we don't have 750+ mile DL flights (closest one being ATL at 508 mi and the seasonal MSP at 488 mi). Still, with ATL at 90% LF and the recently reinstated third ATL canceled this fall, couldn't 9E send some CR9s our way from ATL for MX, much like they do with the CR2?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13115 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
DSM,

Is FWA a hub to the insurance industry?

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
PWM,

That flight is over 3 hours

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
ROC

MSA of over 1 million people,


Seems like no brainer reasoning to me as to why they have CR7/9 and FWA does not.

I'd love to see DL order more CR9's though, does anyone know how many more they can add? I believe its tied to the mainline fleet numbers.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13060 times:

It's a good start. I'd like to also see LAX-PHL/EWR/STL/SEA at some point on DL.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12971 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 15):
I'd love to see DL order more CR9's though, does anyone know how many more they can add? I believe its tied to the mainline fleet numbers.

It's tied to the mainline numbers indeed, and IIRC, after the merger Delta actually had more 76-seaters than scope clauses allowed. Not sure how that was solved, but the 76-seater fleet is pretty much at its limit as far as scope clauses allow, and I can't see DALPA agreeing to allow even more on property.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6713 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12929 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Is there really no route in the network (or no frequency on a route in the network) for which a CRJ/ERJ is the appropriate aircraft? The PR of this is for sure worth something, but it comes at the price of flexibility.

My guess is that Delta was seeing some frequent flyer avoidance of the longer routes on 50-seaters. I personally have booked away from CVG on itineraries to IAH since 2.5-3 hours is a long flight on the CR2 with no potential to upgrade to a more comfortable first class seat.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12899 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
It's tied to the mainline numbers indeed, and IIRC, after the merger Delta actually had more 76-seaters than scope clauses allowed. Not sure how that was solved, but the 76-seater fleet is pretty much at its limit as far as scope clauses allow, and I can't see DALPA agreeing to allow even more on property.

Itd be nice if they could work something out to add 76 seaters in exchange for 50 seaters at a 1 for 2 ratio (1 CR9 for every 2 retired CR2s)



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12855 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 18):
My guess is that Delta was seeing some frequent flyer avoidance of the longer routes on 50-seaters.

Yeah - I was thinking more of single, thinner frequencies on the longer routes. Very few of the routes I listed are all CRJ/ERJ.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9295 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12723 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
It's tied to the mainline numbers indeed, and IIRC, after the merger Delta actually had more 76-seaters than scope clauses allowed. Not sure how that was solved, but the 76-seater fleet is pretty much at its limit as far as scope clauses allow, and I can't see DALPA agreeing to allow even more on property.

Delta has a while to go before they get to the line in the sand, and even once they get there its 3 mainline jets to 1 CR9.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 19):
Itd be nice if they could work something out to add 76 seaters in exchange for 50 seaters at a 1 for 2 ratio (1 CR9 for every 2 retired CR2s)

why? all it would do is take more mainline jobs. DL does have a little room for more CR7s, which thye are adding, EV is taking 4 QX CR7s. DALPA wont be giving up anymore scope, not even for C2K pay numbers  



yep.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12669 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 21):
why? all it would do is take more mainline jobs.

How would reducing seat count by nearly a third while cutting possible frequency in half take more mainline jobs?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12558 times:

I think down the road we will see RDU-SLC come back on a A319

It seemed to operate at good capacity on a 738. I think the real problem is not that DL dosn't want to operate it, its just that SLC at the two peak ideal connection times has very few gates open/staff very busy and the aircraft/gate has been deemed more profitable elsewhere. Same thing for FLL, PIT and CLE its not that they were bad its SLC has limited gates at the two peak times and delta has to pick what it thinks are the most important for its overloaded mainline gates so planes arn't sitting on the tarmac waiting for a gate


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12531 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 23):
Same thing for FLL, PIT and CLE its not that they were bad its SLC has limited gates at the two peak times and delta has to pick what it thinks are the most important for its overloaded mainline gates so planes arn't sitting on the tarmac waiting for a gate

DL still flies FLL-SLC.

With MSP now in the fold, SLC connections to the smaller East Coast markets are no longer necessary. I don't think we will see them return.



a.
25 AV8AJET : So the airlines can layoff and furlough more pilots? No thanks, don't wanna see anymore pilots on the street.
26 Cubsrule : Let me ask again: how does reducing fleet count lead to layoffs?
27 Post contains images deltal1011man : How does it hurt mainline(i can't believe you are really asking this BTW) Delta's fleet in 2000 had 54 737-200s, and 26 737-300s. Delta parked these
28 FWAERJ : Yes, with Lincoln Financial, Brotherhood Mutual, and MedPro, among others. Still, business travelers are either being forced to drive to or automatic
29 KcrwFlyer : Look at how much DL service my city has and still lacks FC/ 70 seaters. And you have 2 ATL flights and seem surprised you dont ?
30 MSPNWA : Good to see all routes get F. Also good to see those CR7s going two-class. Too bad some of those routes still will see a CRJ though.
31 burnsie28 : Odd I was under the impression they were pulling the 5500's back out of storage. Remember when FWA used to get DC-9's? I wouldn't but I would have no
32 JBAirwaysFan : DL celebrated 30 years in DAB in September 2009. Awesome celebration!
33 Post contains images FWAERJ : Yes. Thank you TZ at IND with absurdly low fares for killing mainline anything from FWA. Though TZ is gone, the reverberations of the shift in passen
34 deltal1011man : Wrong? dude are you kidding me? Look at the old DC9 network, 75% of it(if not more) is on what? they may not say the 50 seat jet replaced most of the
35 FWAERJ : They've got nothing on FWA... DL (including Delta Connection) will celebrate 75 years at FWA next year.
36 burnsie28 : on routes today, yes, thats because they don't have the DC-9 replacement and the DC-9s were needing to be retired. Had they got the actual direct DC-
37 RL757PVD : Probably more of an insurance focus city than a hub Also if the other big insurance cities like MSP, DSM and BDL are all north of FWA, how would they
38 MSPNWA : The CRJs, and even EMBs, haven't replaced the DC-9s. NW was pretty vocal in admitting that they had not found a direct replacement that seated about
39 RL757PVD : If TZ never existed, mainline still would have gone away I have recently theorized that airline industry data has a shelf life... if the references/d
40 deltal1011man : ugh, again what has? um, thats called a replacement. um duh LOL If i had 1,000,000,000,000,000$ i would have alot of money. What does that mean? noth
41 DeltaRules : Is there any way of telling which 738s (AVOD or not) DL's using on a daily basis on CMH-LAX, or is it a mixed bag/luck of the draw? Would still like t
42 PSU.DTW.SCE : In this day and age, there is no direct replacement, and NW (or DL) didn't/doesn't want a direct replacement. Gone are the days of a 1 for 1 replacme
43 Post contains links GSPSPOT : Thankfully GSP has basically 1 CR7/day in the mix, and an MD88 4 days a week. I've NEVER seen such a segmented schedule! http://www.gspairport.com/FSd
44 timf : Each route operated by a 738 is designated as normally-AVOD or normally-not, which can be determined by the (Winglets) designation on delta.com. Even
45 ERJ170 : Uhmm.. How? According to the website, FWA (Baer Field/Baer Army Air Field) wasn't even founded until 1941. It wasn't even a civilian airport until 19
46 FWAERJ : Oops. I meant 65 years, as DL started FWA service using DC-4s in 1946. Math was a little off.
47 Post contains images Super80DFW : That makes little to no sense. Do you have proof to back up your claim? If FWA was as high yielding as you claim, I'm sure DL would be more willing t
48 KcrwFlyer : It'd be gone anyway. Just like all of the other cities around the size of FWA. Why would DL reduce service on a route doing so very overwhelmingly we
49 Post contains images kbpilot5 : Nice to see DL mainline back to GSO once daily
50 FWAERJ : FWA (and SBN) have higher fares to ATL than IND, even on last-minute business fares, and even when comparing F at IND to Y at the others. For tomorro
51 Tomassjc : Odd to see SJC-MSP as 2x MD90 as of today too!
52 Crosscheck007 : Looks like MSN-DCA will be 6x weekly CR9 and MSN-LGA will be 6x weekly CR7. Good boost to MSN's traffic! Cheers, 007
53 Post contains images laca773 : Now that NW is merged into DL, wouldn't it be more feasible if DL chose to replace the DC9 family they go with the E90/95s sense they have already es
54 futureorthopod : if there were a like button here like on facebook I would have clicked it Delta has dropped and re-initiated service to SFO from LAX several times...
55 Post contains images davescj : I saw on another tread (I apologize, I forgot which one) that much of the LAX - SFO flights are to get corporate contracts. If that is true, it makes
56 RL757PVD : If you are buying a ticket tomorrow flying back the next day. chances are you are more about what airport is better than what the price of the ticket
57 KcrwFlyer : So ya think FL may be bringing the fares down... perhaps my friend...perhaps. Yes, small cities have higher fares than larger cities. Routes without
58 skyrat : Many times DTW, ORD, CVG, DFW are overbooked out of FWA. Every where you go today flights are overbooked. I should know cause every time I rebook a c
59 baw716 : Question: On LAX-SFO, are they operating a few flights, or are they intending to go toe to toe with UA? Curious to know. thanks baw716
60 laca773 : I don't think DL has any intentions to go toe to toe with UA whatsoever. The LAX-SFO-LAX markets are well covered. If DL was going to go toe to toe w
61 flyCMH : Delta's re-relaunch of service to Los Angles from Columbus left a little late yesterday and around 80% full. While the route is slated to go down to 3
62 SESGDL : All 738s do not have winglets. Jeremy
63 brilondon : I would like to know if they have been removing them, the 5500 series I mean, because I have been scheduled on them, at least by the seat chart when
64 Deltal1011man : only a had full don't, but they should be getting finished any time now.
65 DeltaRules : This just feels weird. I can't ever remember CMH-MSP NOT having mainline, be it under the NW or DL banner.
66 GlobalCabotage : If DL wanted to make a statement, they would start LAX-DFW and LAX-ORD. Since they've started ORD-LGA, this may happen someday.
67 CompensateMe : NW originally acquired the CR9 and E75 with the intentions of replacing capacity lost as a result of the ARJ's retirements but during the "fuel crisi
68 laca773 : Yes. DL has also established pay scales for the cockpit crews on the E90/95s. Here's to hoping we here something in the not to far off future. Like I
69 baw716 : If we are strictly speaking just LAX-SFO, then the trip is 50 min more or less in the air. On the ground, that's another matter and is dependent upon
70 Deltal1011man : DALPA also has a pay scale for the CR9, The E90/95 or CR9 wont happen.
71 laca773 : I think there's a better chance of the E90/95s happening over the CR9. It will fill the void they have in their mainline a/c.
72 RL757PVD : Why not the C-series to both fill the void, replace the D95's and eventually some of the MD88s.
73 laca773 : Because it's at least three years before the first one is tentatively scheduled for delivery.
74 RL757PVD : Last time I checked the D95's still had a few more years in the system. I wouldnt say the demand for a 100-seater is overly pressing. The CR9 has pro
75 ERJ170 : To add the C-Series, they would have to redo pilot contracts, correct? However, the E90/E95 is already on the contract. Isn't that a good indication
76 RL757PVD : I've heard of cases where they always have a bunch of aircraft not currently in the fleet with a pay scale assigned. I.E AA might have a scale for an
77 ERJ170 : right. but if they don't have it on the scale, would the contracts have to be renegotiated? I know the E90 is up there. .not sure about the C-series.
78 RL757PVD : I think if you went to the pilots and said " hey we're thinking about buying more mainline aircraft" Theyd probably be willing to sit down and work o
79 FlyPNS1 : True, but the hard part is working out an acceptable pay scale for both sides. Regardless, the pilots contract becomes amenendable on Jan 1, 2012 and
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