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How Is DL Doing In Latin America?  
User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 880 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

How is DL doing in Latin America. I know they are doing well in EZE and Brazil, but who isn't?....Your comments are welcomed (just save your smart remarks!)


AA will Rise Again!
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5778 times:
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They are doing fine, with few exceptions. As you mentioned, EZE and Brazil (GIG and GRU), together with LIM are very good performers. BOG and CCS are also good. BSB is strong.

For the next winter season (summer in South America), their network already see some upgrades:

ATL-EZE and ATL-GIG from 763 to 764 (as last year)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5746 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
For the next winter season (summer in South America), their network already see some upgrades:

ATL-SCL won't see the B764 next summer unlike the last summer season. ATL-SCL will continue to operate with the B763.


User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

How is ATL-SCL doing? Is it mostly cargo yields what keeps this flight going? This could be a good indicator if United/Continental will decide to return to SCL......I have a feeling that will not be for a while......


AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5644 times:
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Quoting eastern023 (Reply 3):
How is ATL-SCL doing?

It does well during the summer season. Also, the ATL-SCL route is the only route between Chile and the U.S. not operated by a oneworld carrier. AA's daily DFW-SCL service does well with cargo.


User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

It is VERY likely that DL will operate 764s or larger (332/3s and maybe a 744 are possible) in every long haul S. America market - including SCL.

DL carries an enormous amount of cargo which makes it a very strong candidate for 330 service.

generally, DL is the 2nd largest airline to most of deep S. America behind AA while CO is the 2nd largest and DL is 3rd to northern S. America.

Latin America is and will continue to be a core part of DL's network - although the CO/UA merger will make it much more necessary for DL to compete aggressively.
Right now, many Latin America markets are not Open Skies so cannot be a part of a Star joint venture and since the UA-CO merger will take a couple years for approval and implementation/integration, DL has some a longer lead time than they do in other key integration markets like Japan. Germany, and the UK.

DL will grow Latin capacity via upgrades, esp. during the winter and will add new routes and frequencies. Remember that much of DL's Latin network operates with 1 flt/day to ATL... there is alot of expansion potential in the DL network.


User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5322 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 5):
generally, DL is the 2nd largest airline to most of deep S. America behind AA

In Brazil DL is 3rd behind AA and UA mainly because UA uses bigger aircraft (B772). UA also offers F class.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 5):
It is VERY likely that DL will operate 764s or larger (332/3s and maybe a 744 are possible)

DL already uses the B764 ATL-GRU, so I assume the next step would be the B747.

Rgs,


User currently offlinevin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 6):
DL already uses the B764 ATL-GRU, so I assume the next step would be the B747.

No need to lower the yields to a very biz centric destination. In terms of LatAm, there's not much DL can add.

DTW-GUA
MSP-GUA
JFK-SJD
MSP-MTY
DTW-ACA
MSP-MEX
MCO-MEX
IND-MEX


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1187 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 5):
DL will operate 764s or larger (332/3s and maybe a 744 are possible

That is the rumor with the 744 pilots. They believe they will be going to GRU this fall.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1683 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

Delta starts DTW-EZE service with a 763 in October.


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5105 times:
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Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 5):
DL will grow Latin capacity via upgrades, esp. during the winter and will add new routes and frequencies. Remember that much of DL's Latin network operates with 1 flt/day to ATL... there is alot of expansion potential in the DL network.

I do not think that DL will "upgrade" a/c to Ecuador anytime soon. DL currently operates ATL-GYE 4x weekly (B738). DL will only operate the route on a daily basis for 6 weeks during this Summer, then it reverts to 5x weekly. Usually when DL "upgrades" ATL-GYE to the B752, the route only operates on a weekly basis. Also, ATL-UIO operates daily with the B73G. UIO/GYE are both cargo intensive destinations for other carriers, except DL and CO.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
In terms of LatAm, there's not much DL can add.

It'd be nice to see some routes out of MEM, like MEM-SAL, MEM-SAP, MEM-PTY and MEM-BZE. But that's very unlikely to happen, even as weekend only, high-season ATL back-up flights.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 6):
In Brazil DL is 3rd behind AA and UA mainly because UA uses bigger aircraft (B772).

that is incorrect.

DL is #2 between the US and Brazil for the 12 months ended Nov 09, the most recent month for which US government traffic data is available for.
For YE Nov 09, DL boarded more than 210K passengers between the US and Brazil on nearly 1 billion RPMs.
In the same period, UA boarded about 2/3 the number of passengers and slightly more than 2/3 the RPMs.

If you look only at GRU -US traffic, UA does carry slightly more passengers and RPMs than DL but since UA operates GIG as a tag behind GRU for most of the year, the GIG traffic is counted as GRU traffic since GIG passengers make an intermediate stop. Counting GIG passengers only where they operate nonstop to the US, DL boarded more than 5X the number of passengers UA did.

DL also has boardings outside of GIG and GRU.

DL generates about 20% more revenue between the US and Brazil than UA and about 12% more than CO.

DL also carries more passengers and generates more RPMs than CO or UA to Argentina and is #2 in Argentina in revenue as well.

Note also that DL's routes to S. America are shorter than UA's yet DL generates more RPMs based on more capacity and boardings.

In Chile, DL has about 1/3 of the market carried by US carriers w/ AA carrying the other 2/3s, making Chile DL's highest market share market in S. America among US carriers.

The CO/UA merger is very much a threat to DL's #2 position in deep S. America which is why they will increase capacity on existing routes where they can via either larger equipment or frequencies or add new routes. Given that DL's ATL-Latin network which is the vast majority of its Latin system generate above average revenues compared to the rest of the industryand does it from one of the lowest cost Latin gateways using DL's cost base which is lower than AA or UA, DL is likely generatng Latin profits that are above average in the indusry. They can very much afford to add capacity in order to profitably maintain their market presence.


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1187 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5028 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 9):
Delta starts DTW-EZE service with a 763 in October

You sure about that? Don't you mean GRU?


User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5023 times:

Although DL is doing great in GRU and GIG, the same cannot be said about other secondary destinations in Brazil: FOR will be axed and MAO is performing very poorly. BSB is a recent destination so we need to wait for a few months to check its performance.

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 8):
That is the rumor with the 744 pilots. They believe they will be going to GRU this fall.

I think GRU is a very strong candidate for DL B747. It will happen sooner or later, especially now that restrictions are in place for GRU slots and the only way to increase presence in GRU is through bigger capacity planes.

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 12):
DL is #2 between the US and Brazil for the 12 months ended Nov 09, the most recent month for which US government traffic data is available for.
For YE Nov 09, DL boarded

Thanks for the correction, I was considering only GRU-US in which UA is bigger than DL.

Rgs,


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5002 times:
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Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 12):
In Chile, DL has about 1/3 of the market carried by US carriers w/ AA carrying the other 2/3s, making Chile DL's highest market share market in S. America among US carriers.

And that's because DL is the only other U.S. carrier operating at SCL.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6222 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 5):
DL will grow Latin capacity via upgrades, esp. during the winter and will add new routes and frequencies.

Yeah, like FOR and MAO      



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4767 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 6):

DL already uses the B764 ATL-GRU, so I assume the next step would be the B747.

or the 333

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 9):

EZE?



yep.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4698 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
DTW-GUA
MSP-GUA

These won't happen. Guatemala traffic is centered around a few key US metro areas: Los Angeles, New York, Baltimore, South Florida, Texas and San Francisco.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
JFK-SJD

Once or twice a week during peak season, maybe.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
MSP-MTY
DTW-ACA

These won't happen either. ACA traffic is minimal at best. It does not have the same tourist draw as it used to.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
MSP-MEX

Wasn't this recently applied for?

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
MCO-MEX

Doesn't partner AM already operate this?

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
IND-MEX

Absolutely no market.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4576 times:
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Quoting cokepopper (Reply 13):
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 9):
Delta starts DTW-EZE service with a 763 in October

You sure about that? Don't you mean GRU?
DL will start DTW-GRU 2x weekly, (B763) on 10/21/10.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 18):

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):
MCO-MEX

Doesn't partner AM already operate this?
AM operates seven weekly non-stop flights between MEX and MCO. DL codeshares on two of the seven weekly flights. Also, MX operates MEX-MCO 4x weekly. But DL manages to operate MCO-CUN on a weekly basis.



[Edited 2010-06-13 20:35:47]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4476 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting worldtraveler (Reply 5):
It is VERY likely that DL will operate 764s or larger (332/3s and maybe a 744 are possible) in every long haul S. America market - including SCL.

DL carries an enormous amount of cargo which makes it a very strong candidate for 330 service.

Possible and make sense as we many times discuss. First because there's extra market to South America during winter, second because there's less of a market in Europe at the same time.
About the 744, with HND, i do not see such chance on the short term, and rather i would say it's easier to see A332/3 as the additional capacity wouldn't be so big in order to disrupt yields. The 744 is much bigger than the 764 !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 7):

DL doesn't need to add anything really, they need to work on getting the network daily year round before they add any new flights.
I do think ATL-POS,PAP need to happen.
Also DL needs to grow its network at JFK, but like i said, lets get what they have daily, year round. 1-2x weekly all year save 6 weeks is kinda a joke.



yep.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4438 times:
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Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):
I do think ATL-POS,PAP need to happen.
Also DL needs to grow its network at JFK, but like i said, lets get what they have daily, year round. 1-2x weekly all year save 6 weeks is kinda a joke.

ATL-POS and ATL-KIN did happen, along with JFK-KIN and JFK-POS. DL recently discontinued all of these routes. I also do not foresee DL operating JFK-GYE, JFK-LIM, JFK-SCL, and/or JFK-UIO in the near future.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):

ATL-POS and ATL-KIN did happen, along with JFK-KIN and JFK-POS.

wasn't ATL-KIN cut for the winter? I don't remember POS at all.



yep.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4371 times:
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Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 23):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):

ATL-POS and ATL-KIN did happen, along with JFK-KIN and JFK-POS.

wasn't ATL-KIN cut for the winter? I don't remember POS at all.

ATL-POS was discontinued at the end of February. Both JFK-POS and JFK-KIN were cancelled last month. ATL-KIN will be cut on 09/08/10.


25 MAH4546 : ATL-POS happened and was discontinued. And ATL-PAP when 90%+ of the market is just going to Miami and New York?
26 Deltal1011man : What was ATL-POS? Not shocking, even though this will likely start some kind of "mine is bigger" thing DL really should have jumped into MIA after PA
27 MAH4546 : I think it went all over the place from 1 to 5 weekly, with a 738. It ended last week.
28 EddieDude : I very much doubt we will see service to GUA from DTW and MSP. I think those cities are served well from ATL. Does DL fly JFK-GUA? Do you guys think
29 MAH4546 : Delta flew JFK-GUA and it lasted about 5-6 months. Old Delta route, discontinued after one or two winter seasons in '09.
30 SCL767 : Also, DL's weekly ATL-TAB service was discontinued. DL was the only SkyTeam member operating into POS/TAB. On the other hand, CO operates IAH-POS dai
31 AA1818 : DL entered the POS-ATL market and never really let the public know that they were there. There was little advertising which ultimately let to its dem
32 LipeGIG : As a separate carrier, yes, you're right, but i see chances for CO to become the # 2. CO got from all carriers the most premium revenue, That's inter
33 MaverickM11 : Or never, most likely. They've tried MCOMEX, and they've applied for MSPMEX; otherwise I wouldn't hold your breath for any of those. ...which is D.O.
34 worldtraveler : Again, based solely on traffic because UA's GIG traffic is counted as GRU traffic since that is where the last foreign departure occurs most of the y
35 yellowtail : Bingo. DL also underestimates the need for a CTO as well.
36 SJOtoLIR : DL failed catastrophically trying to open a new US gateway for Central America through New York JFK. The airline launched DL JFK-GUA, DL JFK-PTY, DL
37 worldtraveler : Which also coincided with major economic downturns in case you missed it.
38 yellowtail : For once please accept that perhaps, just perhaps, DL could not make the route work under any conditions...There are jsut some routes that work from
39 MAH4546 : I don't personally envision much room for Delta to expand in Latin America in terms of new routes and markets. Just consider JFK-EZE, JFK-BOG, JFK-POS
40 worldtraveler : and if we had laboratory conditions to prove it, I could accept it... but since DL was adding routes when others weren't and the economy clearly has
41 LipeGIG : That's true. But i don't see such room for increase the network on Deep South America, and we do not expect huge increases for the Winter season 2010
42 LipeGIG : Just saw DOT 12/2009 numbers for DL: ATL-BSB first month 65.55% 0 lb Cargo BSB-ATL first month 95.78% 0 lb Cargo I shall say a very strong first month
43 MAH4546 : It's not a first month. It's less than two weeks of operations during the Christmas holiday.[Edited 2010-06-14 21:15:56]
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