CGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 303 posts, RR: 7 Posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7395 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Hi A.netters
The Oregonian (the Portland area newspaper) has a nice news-article that says DL will keep PDX-NRT service after the Port (of Portland) subsidy runs out and will also maintain the PDX-AMS service.
Fair-use quote:
Quote:
Port of Portland commissioners faced "better than casino odds," an aviation analyst said last year, when they placed a $3.5 million bet on Delta Air Lines to continue nonstop flights to Tokyo.
If so, the Port hit the jackpot. Delta executives now say the Port's unusual subsidies kept Portland's sole Asian passenger air link alive, tiding the service through the recession and slow winter months.
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7087 times:
Very good news indeed. Thank you for sharing. It's great to hear that the flight is capable of sustaining itself in lieu of subsidies running out. I am wondering how much of this flight is O&D vs. connecting traffic?
doug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7041 times:
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1): I am wondering how much of this flight is O&D vs. connecting traffic?
Very anecdotal, but my few times on this flight it has seemed like most people on the US side were originating in PDX (a few AS boarding passes around, though) and there were a pretty good number of NRT connections. Very glad to see this flight remaining as it is a pretty big deal for us here in PDX. I was surprised to see DL has upgraded the AMS flight (presumably just for summer) to an A332. Without LH competition this flight seems to be performing well.
ramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1455 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6506 times:
It's good to see the flight staying for now. Lets see what Delta will do after the busy summer travel season ends, and the loads drop for fall and winter. Then they will be right back threating to pull the PDX-NRT flight. Fool you once, shame on me, fool you twice, shame on you!
LambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2040 posts, RR: 38 Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6400 times:
I'm glad to see this flight is staying. The Port of Portland is a pioneer of creativity and while they made a calculated mistake in recruiting the AMS flight when they already had LH, you can't fault their aspirations.
Definitely an administration other cities can look to for inspiration.
And I believe its fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
CGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 303 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5268 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Quoting LambertMan (Reply 5): The Port of Portland is a pioneer of creativity and while they made a calculated mistake in recruiting the AMS flight when they already had LH, you can't fault their aspirations.
Definitely agree! At this point, PDX has Europe and Asia covered nicely. In my personal view the next thing that PDX should go after is re-establishing some form of service to Mexico (in consultation with local leaders to find out what can be viable), and then work on securing such service. I think that a few-weekly service to GDL could be viable (PDX and GDL are sister-cities), but have doubts that such can be re-established.
~CGKings317
I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1869 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4902 times:
This is good news of course. If Portland can get some business sense and start wooing businesses and helping new ones grow, we might have something here.
I used the LH flight in the past and look forward to using the DL AMS service for my next trip to Europe.
baw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 30 Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4520 times:
Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 4): It's good to see the flight staying for now. Lets see what Delta will do after the busy summer travel season ends, and the loads drop for fall and winter. Then they will be right back threating to pull the PDX-NRT flight. Fool you once, shame on me, fool you twice, shame on you!
If the 45/35/15% traffic mix is anything near correct, then there might be a business case for keeping the flight on a year round basis, assuming the yields hold up. However, one thing: PDX is Alaska's #2 largest operating hub after SEA. The feed between DL/AS will be significant and because DL is retaining the AMS flight (especially now that LH has left the market), the SkyTeam dominance factor in the Pacific Northwest makes keeping the flight a much greater imperative. Remember too that DL feeds beyond NRT, so local PDX passengers that are going beyond NRT are better served by having the flight.
My sense is that PDX-NRT will be around for awhile.
baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
ATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 558 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3766 times:
I'm glad to see the route staying too.
I was planning on going to University in Tokyo, and while looking at flights the cheapest option Delta gave me was actually routing me through Portland instead of a direct from Atlanta. I was planning on booking it. Maybe this is how they have managed to make the flight work.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3344 times:
Quoting CGKings317 (Thread starter): DL will keep PDX-NRT service after the Port (of Portland) subsidy runs out and will also maintain the PDX-AMS service
Subject to change of course... (It's been known to happen with Delta!)
I hope both flights stay. It's been a long, tough (and expensive?) effort by PDX but it is nice when such hard work actually pays off.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3302 times:
Quoting doug_Or (Reply 2): I was surprised to see DL has upgraded the AMS flight (presumably just for summer) to an A332.
According to the AMS slot request list, PDX-AMS-PDX will be a 5 weekly A332 for Winter 2010-2011 (no flights on Tuesday and Wednesday ex PDX). Thus the A332 will remain, however frequency will go down to 5 weekly.
doug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3174 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 11): According to the AMS slot request list, PDX-AMS-PDX will be a 5 weekly A332 for Winter 2010-2011 (no flights on Tuesday and Wednesday ex PDX). Thus the A332 will remain, however frequency will go down to 5 weekly.
Glad to hear it. We were not daily last winter either, so thats not a loss. The only real change in the improvement in # and quality of seats. That is of course, if DL in fact keeps to this plan. These things seem to be subject to change
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1869 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2955 times:
keeping the A332 in winter will be a treat, that's great news.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3220 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2323 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 10): Subject to change of course... (It's been known to happen with Delta!)
Yes Delta is the only airline to make a change of plans when market conditions change....
Hopefully it means that the routes don't need subsidies to turn a profit.
toobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 673 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2236 times:
I for one am very excited about this news! Have used PDX-AMS many times and the loads have always been heavy. Obviously these flights (AMS and NRT) will do excellent during the summer and the upgauge to a 330 to AMS is very smart. However not sure if the 330 is too much aircraft during the winter months.. good luck PDX and DL!
DOT data for the 4th quarter says the local is not as high as you saw and the intra-Asian connections are quite a bit larger than what it was here.... domestic connections are fairly low...
average fares have improved on both the local and the flow segments so it says that PDX can support a TPAC flight but the capacity will need to be carefully managed to keep the yields up.
It also says that PDX is highly dependent on the DL/NW hub at NRT... something that DL certainly realizes as they rework the Pacific operation. They will keep the feed that is necessary to maintain the TPAC flights that they have from non-hub cities.
But if NRT is every de-hubbed (which I personally don't think will happen - DL will operate NRT as a hub AND add nonstop flights overflying NRT) and if KE and DL ever sign a JV, the flight will be moved to ICN... most of the traffic could be carried over ICN but right now there is no incentive for DL to do that without a joint venture with KE and given that they can keep all of the revenue over NRT.
ramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1455 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1823 times:
You got that right. We (UA) are in the process of giving back close to 50% of our lobby and ramp level work area's. How does $140.00 a sq ft sound for ramp level space, and $200+ per sq ft up in the terminal sound!
frmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1799 times:
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 17): No wonder PDX is such an expensive aiport to operate out of. They are gamblin' with other airline's rent money!
IIRC The monies for the subsidy are obtained from separate sources than 'rent' money from other airlines. In addition an airport with non-stop services to Europe and Asia is a more valuable airport for almost every other airline. I believe PDX's worry was that if they lost those few non-stops they would start a downward spiral, for the metropolitan area as well as the airport.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
ramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1455 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1687 times:
I feel Portland and PDX has been in a downward spiral for years now. No new companies want to sent up shop in Oregon because of the anti-business attitude from Government. With Measures 66 & 67 going through. You will see more comapnies leave Oregon.
Back to the subject.
I have noticed more ex NWA flights leaving from the odd gates in concourse D now. So it looks like they are spreading the flights around their five gates. I still don't understand how they have both DL and ex NWA rampers working different flights though.
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