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DL To Retain PDX-NRT After Subsidy Runs Out  
User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8671 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Hi A.netters

The Oregonian (the Portland area newspaper) has a nice news-article that says DL will keep PDX-NRT service after the Port (of Portland) subsidy runs out and will also maintain the PDX-AMS service.

Fair-use quote:

Quote:


Port of Portland commissioners faced "better than casino odds," an aviation analyst said last year, when they placed a $3.5 million bet on Delta Air Lines to continue nonstop flights to Tokyo.

If so, the Port hit the jackpot. Delta executives now say the Port's unusual subsidies kept Portland's sole Asian passenger air link alive, tiding the service through the recession and slow winter months.

source: http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...orts_gamble_on_delta_pays_off.html

It appears that PDX and DL have hit a sort-of "stability field" relating to the international flights. This makes me happy 

Prosper!  

~CGKings317  

[Edited 2010-06-12 08:13:41]


I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8363 times:

Very good news indeed. Thank you for sharing. It's great to hear that the flight is capable of sustaining itself in lieu of subsidies running out. I am wondering how much of this flight is O&D vs. connecting traffic?

User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3403 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8317 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
I am wondering how much of this flight is O&D vs. connecting traffic?

Very anecdotal, but my few times on this flight it has seemed like most people on the US side were originating in PDX (a few AS boarding passes around, though) and there were a pretty good number of NRT connections. Very glad to see this flight remaining as it is a pretty big deal for us here in PDX. I was surprised to see DL has upgraded the AMS flight (presumably just for summer) to an A332. Without LH competition this flight seems to be performing well.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8278 times:

Anecdotal here as well, but when I used to work it every day (this was last in '05), it was roughly:

45% local O& D

35% Feed from NW

15-20% from AS/QX

0-5% Other (mostly CO)

Note: The above is based on baggage checked.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7782 times:

It's good to see the flight staying for now. Lets see what Delta will do after the busy summer travel season ends, and the loads drop for fall and winter. Then they will be right back threating to pull the PDX-NRT flight. Fool you once, shame on me, fool you twice, shame on you!

User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2074 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7676 times:

I'm glad to see this flight is staying. The Port of Portland is a pioneer of creativity and while they made a calculated mistake in recruiting the AMS flight when they already had LH, you can't fault their aspirations.

Definitely an administration other cities can look to for inspiration.

And I believe its fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.  


User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6544 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 5):
The Port of Portland is a pioneer of creativity and while they made a calculated mistake in recruiting the AMS flight when they already had LH, you can't fault their aspirations.

Definitely agree! At this point, PDX has Europe and Asia covered nicely. In my personal view the next thing that PDX should go after is re-establishing some form of service to Mexico (in consultation with local leaders to find out what can be viable), and then work on securing such service. I think that a few-weekly service to GDL could be viable (PDX and GDL are sister-cities), but have doubts that such can be re-established.

~CGKings317  



I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

This is good news of course. If Portland can get some business sense and start wooing businesses and helping new ones grow, we might have something here.

I used the LH flight in the past and look forward to using the DL AMS service for my next trip to Europe.



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlinebaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5796 times:

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 4):
It's good to see the flight staying for now. Lets see what Delta will do after the busy summer travel season ends, and the loads drop for fall and winter. Then they will be right back threating to pull the PDX-NRT flight. Fool you once, shame on me, fool you twice, shame on you!

If the 45/35/15% traffic mix is anything near correct, then there might be a business case for keeping the flight on a year round basis, assuming the yields hold up. However, one thing: PDX is Alaska's #2 largest operating hub after SEA. The feed between DL/AS will be significant and because DL is retaining the AMS flight (especially now that LH has left the market), the SkyTeam dominance factor in the Pacific Northwest makes keeping the flight a much greater imperative. Remember too that DL feeds beyond NRT, so local PDX passengers that are going beyond NRT are better served by having the flight.

My sense is that PDX-NRT will be around for awhile.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

I'm glad to see the route staying too.

I was planning on going to University in Tokyo, and while looking at flights the cheapest option Delta gave me was actually routing me through Portland instead of a direct from Atlanta. I was planning on booking it. Maybe this is how they have managed to make the flight work.

-Brandon



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Quoting CGKings317 (Thread starter):
DL will keep PDX-NRT service after the Port (of Portland) subsidy runs out and will also maintain the PDX-AMS service

Subject to change of course... (It's been known to happen with Delta!)

I hope both flights stay. It's been a long, tough (and expensive?) effort by PDX but it is nice when such hard work actually pays off.

bb


User currently onlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 2):
I was surprised to see DL has upgraded the AMS flight (presumably just for summer) to an A332.

According to the AMS slot request list, PDX-AMS-PDX will be a 5 weekly A332 for Winter 2010-2011 (no flights on Tuesday and Wednesday ex PDX). Thus the A332 will remain, however frequency will go down to 5 weekly.


User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3403 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4450 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 11):
According to the AMS slot request list, PDX-AMS-PDX will be a 5 weekly A332 for Winter 2010-2011 (no flights on Tuesday and Wednesday ex PDX). Thus the A332 will remain, however frequency will go down to 5 weekly.

Glad to hear it. We were not daily last winter either, so thats not a loss. The only real change in the improvement in # and quality of seats. That is of course, if DL in fact keeps to this plan. These things seem to be subject to change  



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

keeping the A332 in winter will be a treat, that's great news.


They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
Subject to change of course... (It's been known to happen with Delta!)

Yes Delta is the only airline to make a change of plans when market conditions change....
        

Hopefully it means that the routes don't need subsidies to turn a profit.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

I for one am very excited about this news! Have used PDX-AMS many times and the loads have always been heavy. Obviously these flights (AMS and NRT) will do excellent during the summer and the upgauge to a 330 to AMS is very smart. However not sure if the 330 is too much aircraft during the winter months.. good luck PDX and DL!

User currently offlineworldtraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3475 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 3):
45% local O& D

35% Feed from NW

15-20% from AS/QX

0-5% Other (mostly CO)

Note: The above is based on baggage checked.

DOT data for the 4th quarter says the local is not as high as you saw and the intra-Asian connections are quite a bit larger than what it was here.... domestic connections are fairly low...

average fares have improved on both the local and the flow segments so it says that PDX can support a TPAC flight but the capacity will need to be carefully managed to keep the yields up.

It also says that PDX is highly dependent on the DL/NW hub at NRT... something that DL certainly realizes as they rework the Pacific operation. They will keep the feed that is necessary to maintain the TPAC flights that they have from non-hub cities.
But if NRT is every de-hubbed (which I personally don't think will happen - DL will operate NRT as a hub AND add nonstop flights overflying NRT) and if KE and DL ever sign a JV, the flight will be moved to ICN... most of the traffic could be carried over ICN but right now there is no incentive for DL to do that without a joint venture with KE and given that they can keep all of the revenue over NRT.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3421 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

Quoting CGKings317 (Thread starter):
placed a $3.5 million bet on Delta Air Lines to continue nonstop flights to Tokyo.

No wonder PDX is such an expensive aiport to operate out of. They are gamblin' with other airline's rent money!



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

You got that right. We (UA) are in the process of giving back close to 50% of our lobby and ramp level work area's. How does $140.00 a sq ft sound for ramp level space, and $200+ per sq ft up in the terminal sound!

User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 17):
No wonder PDX is such an expensive aiport to operate out of. They are gamblin' with other airline's rent money!

IIRC The monies for the subsidy are obtained from separate sources than 'rent' money from other airlines. In addition an airport with non-stop services to Europe and Asia is a more valuable airport for almost every other airline. I believe PDX's worry was that if they lost those few non-stops they would start a downward spiral, for the metropolitan area as well as the airport.



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

I feel Portland and PDX has been in a downward spiral for years now. No new companies want to sent up shop in Oregon because of the anti-business attitude from Government. With Measures 66 & 67 going through. You will see more comapnies leave Oregon.

Back to the subject.

I have noticed more ex NWA flights leaving from the odd gates in concourse D now. So it looks like they are spreading the flights around their five gates. I still don't understand how they have both DL and ex NWA rampers working different flights though.


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