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Could UA/CO Ever Be Interested In NK?  
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2707 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6571 times:

NK is undergoing an strike.
UA just merged with CO.
Neither UA nor CO have strong presence in South Florida, which happens to be the major O/D for most of UA/CO Latinamerican and Caribbean destinations.
Given NK problems and Airbus commonality with UA Airbus fleet.
Could UA/CO ever be interested in NK FLL international operations, so to get a focus city next to AA MIA?


I'm not on CM's payroll.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6515 times:

No.

Spirit's cost structure and route network would be largely incompatible with a combined United-Continental. Fort Lauderdale is relatively low-yielding and has lots of low fare competition, with or without Spirit, including from the likes of very nimble and strong competitors like Southwest and JetBlue.

I would guess that, if - hypothetically - Spirit were to actually collapse, probably the most valuable things they have going for them are the aircraft (many of which are leased, I believe) and the slots at LaGuardia and Reagan. Fort Lauderdale has value as a market - but not as something another airline would buy. If Spirit were to collapse, then other airlines would simply come in and fill in the slack at Fort Lauderdale.


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6423 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
Spirit's cost structure and route network would be largely incompatible with a combined United-Continental. Fort Lauderdale is relatively low-yielding and has lots of low fare competition, with or without Spirit, including from the likes of very nimble and strong competitors like Southwest and JetBlue.

   Totally, it would probably be more work to integrate NK's model of business and values in to UA and CO's


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2707 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Didn't CO have a low-cost operation once called Continental Lite?
What about those regional partners UA and CO have? Their cost structure manytimes look like LCC.
Doesn't CO or UA now charge passengers for food/beverages or baggage?

WN and B6 are NK domestic competitors, if UA/CO ever shows an interest in NK would be because NK international operations from FLL. Right now UA/CO isn't the airline of choice between Florida and Latinamerica/Caribbean because it lacks those routes and there're quite a number of destinations that can't support flights to EWR, IAD, IAH, ORD but could to FLL.

IMHO, those arguments that UA/CO can't focus in FLL because AA in MIA and MIA yields do remind all those said EWR was no JFK competitor quite some time ago.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineboeing6594 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6251 times:

The only thing that CO/UA would gain would be the fleet, and some slots at LGA and DCA as said before. I believe that US once tried a focus city at FLL to compete with AA out of MIA to gain some Latin America traffic, but that failed.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 3):
Doesn't CO or UA now charge passengers for food/beverages or baggage?


Yes they do charge for these things, but not they do not go as far as NK does, I'm pretty sure UA/CO doesn't charge for beverages (except alcohol of course) unless something has changed that I missed. NK charges for everything including beverages, and I guess they also charge for carry-ons.

If NK does go under we'll probably see WN, B6, or FL fill the void.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2707 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting boeing6594 (Reply 4):
I believe that US once tried a focus city at FLL to compete with AA out of MIA to gain some Latin America traffic, but that failed.

Yes, US tried that and failed. US choose to fly daytime w/quick turnaround from FLL and not to fly southbound evenings and northbound mornings. When most markets US tried from FLL work best not with day-time to/from flights.
  

[Edited 2010-06-14 08:56:00]


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6065 times:

A NK combo with UA/CO would not be good, but what about B6 or F9?

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6037 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 3):
Didn't CO have a low-cost operation once called Continental Lite?

Yes, and it failed miserably.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 3):
IMHO, those arguments that UA/CO can't focus in FLL because AA in MIA and MIA yields do remind all those said EWR was no JFK competitor quite some time ago.

Fort Lauderdale is not a viable competitor to Miami. Fort Lauderdale can serve as an alternative to Miami when it comes to large local and connecting markets or markets where ultra-low fares can stimulate demand. But in virtually every market where the two airports both have competing nonstop flights, Miami generally tends to have way more flights, way mroe traffic, and way higher fares.

Quoting Seatback (Reply 6):
A NK combo with UA/CO would not be good, but what about B6 or F9?

Doubtful. One has to ask how much of Spirit's business exists purely because of the stimulative effects of their ultra-low-cost (ULCC) business model, which no other U.S. carrier - including JetBlue or Frontier - could or would emulate.


User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5956 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Doubtful. One has to ask how much of Spirit's business exists purely because of the stimulative effects of their ultra-low-cost (ULCC) business model, which no other U.S. carrier - including JetBlue or Frontier - could or would emulate.

From a network perspective, I think it fits nicely into each, but if F9 and B6's costs are to high it would fail. I wonder what the CASM for each is?


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5829 times:
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
Could UA/CO ever be interested in NK FLL international operations, so to get a focus city next to AA MIA?

Why not?

IIRC UA tried to buy the assets of Independence Air when they went under.
Yet DH had little strategic importance to UA since its hub was at Washington-Dulles.
Perhaps NK 's certificate could help the *new* United set up a subsidiary like Compass (which NW/DL set up using DH 's certificate). UA frequent flyers **love** the UAX E70s with ExPlus.  yes 

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I would guess that, if - hypothetically - Spirit were to actually collapse, probably the most valuable things they have going for them are the aircraft (many of which are leased, I believe) and the slots at LaGuardia and Reagan.

A handful of route authorities to Columbia and the Eastern Caribbean might have some value. But most of the destinations served by NK are also served by CO.

[Edited 2010-06-14 12:22:52]

User currently onlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2415 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5809 times:

They might be interested in getting the planes, and cancelling the rest of the operation. Overcapacity.

User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5728 times:

UA and CO have enough on their plate already, and would be absolutely foolish to try to add anything else to the equation when they still have to get their own merger approved and implemented in due time. Who could be interested in NK, or filling the void it might leave behind?

AA - I could see this airline buying up FLL (and keeping a small hub there) just to keep the competition (such as DL or B6) out.

B6 - FLL is already a major focus city and int'l gateway for the airline and would nicely complement MCO as a Latin American hub. The airline could snap up a few new A320s as well if Airbus would be willing to put in the PTVs instead of the pre-reclined seats  .

DL - This airline has always been a major player at FLL and has, in terms of Latin America and the Caribbean, added just about everything it can from ATL. Having a FLL focus city/hub would give the airline an opportunity to much better serve large as well as small markets in Central America, the Caribbean, and maybe even South America!

FL - AirTran already does quite a bit of flying into FLL and would probably love to link the airport with key airports like LGA and DCA. They could also use this as an opportunity to expand their Caribbean presence.

US - They tried to establish a Latin American gateway out of FLL not long ago. PHL and CLT just aren't ideal gateways to Latin America - if US could snap up some inexpensive planes that would complement their fleet, get some scarce Latin American frequencies, and add value to their network, why not go for it?

WN - This airline bought one bankrupt carrier (ATA) just to get its LGA slots and could certainly go after this one to get its LGA and DCA slots...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinepiaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

I am a bit tired of hearing about all these hypothetical merger situations. I honestly believe that most if not all the mergers have happened (including UA CO) There are really no more airlines out there for a competitive edge to merge. I think that the merging is done.

User currently offlinecoiah756ca From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 506 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5232 times:

And they have an Airbus fleet. We would have no desire to acquire an airline with their fleet or cost structure/route organization. Commavia couldn't have said it better. Also, SurfandSnow makes a perfect point about our current merger business. After reading through the 86 page business action memo that corporate gave us, I don't think anything else new is going to go on at CO/UA for a while. The next 18 months are going to be one big transformation. Get ready guys.


Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
User currently offlinerolypolyman From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5124 times:

I'm disappointed... looking at the thread title I thought this was going to be a thread about an IAH-FNJ route, or NRT-FNJ! I guess it will happen but I'll have to check back on a.net in about 20 years.

User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

This thread is a little different to what I was expecting from the heading.

I interpreted it as "Could UA/CO Ever Be Interested In North Korea?", and I was expecting a lively if extremely brief disciussion.

Obviously, my interpretation of NK was wrong  


User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

Ah!

Just read the thread before mine.

Great minds think alike.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):
UA just merged with CO.

the shareholders haven't even said yes yet, much less the DOT/DOJ.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Thread starter):

Could UA/CO ever be interested in NK FLL international operations, so to get a focus city next to AA MIA?

No, UA got its but handed to them when they took over the PA MIA hub and let it waste away. No need to do it again.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):

DL - This airline has always been a major player at FLL and has, in terms of Latin America and the Caribbean, added just about everything it can from ATL. Having a FLL focus city/hub would give the airline an opportunity to much better serve large as well as small markets in Central America, the Caribbean, and maybe even South America!

If DL took over NK i would almost bet they try to move the hub to MIA. IMO the MIA market would be ok for 2 large airline hubs, but the only one fo the carriers that may be able to do it is DL, even then AA may be just to big now.

MAH would be the best person to ask about this.



yep.
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 15):
I interpreted it as "Could UA/CO Ever Be Interested In North Korea?"

I wonder which of the two would be more likely to arouse said interest?



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 18):
Quoting Dalavia (Reply 15):
I interpreted it as "Could UA/CO Ever Be Interested In North Korea?"

I wonder which of the two would be more likely to arouse said interest?

The bankruptcy of NK is, unfortunately, a very real possibility. The notion of a U.S. carrier serving North Korea anytime soon is as likely as you winning the lottery tomorrow - so unlikely and farfetched that it is not even worth considering.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2515 times:
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Quoting Dalavia (Reply 15):
I interpreted it as "Could UA/CO Ever Be Interested In North Koreso a?", and I was expecting a lively if extremely brief disciussion.



Unlike Cuba where the State Department has also banned travel, to North Korea there are no sub-rosa flights from the US for humanitarian purposes, or money sent home by expats, or unrecorded business travel by oil or mineral interests, or military consultantship travel, or spare parts for 50's-vintage American automobiles.

There are also no Club-Med-type all-inclusive resorts like Cuba has that draw vacationers from Europe and Canada.

There is virtually no commerce between the US and North Korea. So there is no reason for nonstop flights.

So "NK" could never stand for North Korea.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7816 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Spirit%20Airlines.htm

Given that all a/c, (except 1 A320) are leased, the owners just come and collect.

No real asset at all.


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