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Life As A Private Jet (Charter) Pilot  
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 41241 times:

I'm starting flight school in a couple weeks and was just thinking about possible options in my future. I've always wanted to be a commercial pilot but was just wondering what life is like as a private pilot compared to a commercial pilot. I imagine it depends on if you work for a charter airline, or single company, or even a family. Just curious how an average work month compares to a commercial pilot who has some sort of schedule (not set in stone but have some idea of what they will be doing). Do private pilots work on call, or have scheduled flights etc.

Thanks!

[Edited 2010-06-15 11:04:16]

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinerichm From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 41180 times:

Private Pilot = Someone who will typically fly for pleasure or for personal use (non profit)
Commercial Pilot = Someone who can fly for hire and/or profit but with restrictions
Airline Transport Pilot = Someone who is qualified to fly for an airline and be in command of an aircraft

If you plan to fly jet aircraft for an airline in the future, you will need to attain an ATPL. There's various ways of going about it though, some costlier than others. Some airlines will sponsor people providing they meet certain requirements.

[Edited 2010-06-15 11:02:51]

User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 41027 times:

The ATP is the equivalent of a PhD in aviation. It requires a lot of experience and a practical demonstration of all that experience. It doesn't come easy. Lots of corporate pilots have their ATP rating.

Corporate jobs can be more fun than an airline job. You can have weekends off sometimes, virtually no holiday work. But you don't get paid as much as with an airline, but much more than with a "express" type of carrier.

There is a LOT of hurry up and wait with a corporate job. You fly the clients to the city of their choice, hang around the airport all day and then fly them home. You get to know the airport lounges really well. Some FBO's have very nice lounges for waiting pilots and FA's. A lot of companies have training contracts with FlightSafety. You get good training on the a/c you will be flying.

And as a corporate pilot you are more involved in the maintenance of an aircraft. Be careful, there are small companies out there that try to defer maintenance as much as possible. Just let it be known that you won't fly junk for them. I had a friend that had this happen. The nose gear strut had a crack in it and the owners wanted to take it on a 10 city stop over a period of a week. My friend told them that it needed to be fixed, they told him "it can wait until we get back". He walked off the job never to return.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6971 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 41027 times:

It depends who you work for. I suspect that NetJets and similar operations would give you a fairly predictable schedule (as far as hours, anyway; you would fly to a lot of different places.) Flying for a corporate flight department will depend a lot on how big the corporation is, and how busy they are. The smaller the organization the less predictable the hours, basically. I suspect that pay will also depend on how big the organization is, how busy it is, and what they fly. Nobody wants to hire incompetent pilots, and hence I suspect pay will be at least reasonable. The best job is probably flying for an individual who owns his own plane (Rush Limbaugh, anyone?) but I suspect those jobs are very difficult to get. You undoubtedly would have to have a lot of experience, and it would help greatly to know the person.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 40868 times:

Speaking of corporations, I recently saw some Walmart pilots.

What was their uniform? The same as the door greeters uniform! The only difference was the stylized word "Aviation" written through the Walmart logo on the front of the vest.


User currently offlinecaboclo From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 40426 times:

If you're starting a career in aviation, you might want to join flightinfo.com and pprune.org. Those are a couple of other good aviation forums, whose members are almost entirely employed in the biz; pilots, FA's, wrenches, etc. Not knocking A.net, but this was originally a photography forum. Re life as a charter pilot, first one should differentiate between charter, corporate and fractional. A charter company hires out their planes to all parties; in the case of the small FBO with one or two planes available, you might be on call 24/7/365, while doing flight instruction and pumping gas on the side. A bigger, busier operation might have you on call 5 days on, 3 off. A corporate position involves an individual or company which owns an aircraft for their personal use. In that case, you would be on call 24/7/365 but would have the vast majority of your trips scheduled weeks in advance. In some cases, a corporation will charter out their personal plane on the side, to help pay for it. A fractional operation is run something like an airline, at least as far as the schedule goes; ie you would work 5 on/3 off or some variation thereof, and expect to be away from home for the majority of that time. Regarding all of those operations, the bigger the plane, the less it will fly. With a busy operation, a t-prop or smaller jet will fly almost daily, even in the current economy; a large jet in a corporate setting with no outside charter might only fly a couple hundred hours a year. In any of those operations, you will probably get less flight time than you would in the airlines. Not saying that's good or bad; just depends on your personal preferences: flight time vs. time off. Another option to consider is the use of biz jets outside of the standard pax operations, ie air ambulance and cargo. There are many Lear 20/30s in the ambulance industry, and Lear 20/30s and Falcon 20s in the cargo industry. Requirements to get in to those positions vary with the industry; currently there are many unemployed pilots on the market, so the requirements are high: typically typed and current in the specific aircraft. During the boom times, you could get into a cargo biz jet with 1000 total and a couple hundred multi. You might look into Airnet Express; they are one of the biggest freight airlines, with lots of light twins and Learjets. Once you get part 135 PIC mins you can apply to fly their props, and work your way up to the jets. A good way to get into the pax charter niche is to find an operator (frequently an FBO) which does instruction, traffic watch, etc in addition to jet charter. Start at the bottom and work your way up. If you want to find out what employers are looking for, join one of the job boards. Climbto350.com, airployment.com, uspilot.com, etc.


Freight dogs have more fun
User currently offlinecaboclo From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 40411 times:

P.S. Don't worry about the ATP certificate. It's a joke. Completely superfluous in my opinion. Pretty much the easiest of all the checkrides. You can do it in conjunction with a part 135 initial or recurrent checkride, or any type rating ride. Or you can go to any of the pilot factories and do it in a Seminole for a grand or so. By the time you get the requisite experience, you'll have more than enough skill to pass.


Freight dogs have more fun
User currently offlineUTAH744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 40240 times:

Dear dl767captain;

I would advise you to aim high. There are good jobs and bad jobs, and there are very bad jobs. I will list all of my flying jobs with a comment to the side and then give you my reasons for my selections.

US Navy - P3s around the world. Fun and important flying but 6 mos. deployments to Adak suck.
US Navy reserves - P2s & P3s. Actually a great weekend job especially when you are on the bottom of a sen. list,
Fiesta Air - pt. 121 charter L-188. Interesting but unstable financially eventually went out of business,
Saturn Airways - pt. 121 charter L-188F. Interesting but military contracts changed every year.
Trans Magic Airways - pt. 135 DH114 Heron. Loved the schedule, not so much the plane. Great place to live KSBP.
North Central Airlines - pt.121 CV580 & DC-9s. Wonderful company. Financially stable. Got to fly with some real
oldtimers in some of the worst weather in the USA. One trip on the Convair had 17 landings IN ONE DAY.
Republic Airlines - pt. 121 DC-9s & MD-80s. Two mergers and brink of bankruptcy overshaddowed an otherwise fun
airline with good people from all three airlines.
Northwest Airlines - pt. 121 DC-9, B757, DC-10 & B744. Although NWA had a bad reputation, once the bleeding
from the merger was finally over (sen. integration, etc) things smoothed out. Got to fly all over the world. On
the wide bodies, because of the type of flying, you usually worked 12-14 days a month.
Spirit Aviation - pt. 135 IA-1124 Westwind. Very interesting, but got old quickly. I had only 6 days off/mo.but many 135
operators are more like 7 on. 7 off. If celebs are your thing this might be it. I liked to know when and where I
was going.
Current Company - pt. 91 corporate IA-1125 Astra SP. Great plane, interesting flying, but lack of schedule is rough,
Tomorrow we are scheduled for a 5am takeoff, but we will probably leave at 8am. A bigger company flying execs
not just the boss should have days off real schedule. Down size in bad economic times or a change of leadership
can wipe out the whole aviation department.

So as far as I am concerned the 121 airlines are by far the best. Retirement, medical, schedule, big metal, places to
fly to, and security as you gain seniority. Good luck and aim high!



You are never too old to learn something stupid
User currently onlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 40136 times:

Here's some advice I got from a National Airlines captain in the early 1970s when I faced the same decision - corporate or airline.

"When things go bad, the first thing that gets cut from a corporate or wealthy individual's expenses is the aircraft. It's not essential to the core business. But it's awfully hard to run an airline without airplanes!"

Made sense to me, and while I endured a few furloughs over the years, I think I still have had a more stable career with the airlines
than I would have flying corporate. Your luck may vary....Russ Farris


User currently onlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 39999 times:

Quoting caboclo (Reply 6):
P.S. Don't worry about the ATP certificate. It's a joke. Completely superfluous in my opinion. Pretty much the easiest of all the checkrides. You can do it in conjunction with a part 135 initial or recurrent checkride, or any type rating ride. Or you can go to any of the pilot factories and do it in a Seminole for a grand or so. By the time you get the requisite experience, you'll have more than enough skill to pass.

I actually got my ATP in 1978 in (drum roll, please...) a Cessna 172! Yep, you can get a single-engine ATP even though there is NO FAA requirement for a single-engine ATP in any ops. A year later I got the mulit-engine ATP with my DC-3 type ride. That ATP single and multi-engine land rating always elicits a comment every sim check I take. (The usual says commmercial privilages, single engine land.) I'm rather proud of my C-172 type-rating! Russ Farris


User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 39956 times:

As others have said it varies based on the level of the company. Many fortune 100 companies will have established flight departments with a fleet of a few aircraft and a couple dozen pilots who work regular schedules. This can go all the way down to the company that has a plane on a shoestring budget and as a result the pilot is also the mechanic, groomer, dispatcher, and lives every day of his or her life with a 30 minute response time to a cell phone call.

In any case, Corporate or airline, do your homework. There are far more shady operations out there (and those are the ones that are most often hiring) than good ones. The good jobs are hard to find because people usually don't leave once they're in.

And what others said about the economy rings very true right now. Especially after congress did such a great job villfying corporate aviation during the auto maker hearings. Depending on the variables it's often a cost effective means of travel and might even save a company money and time which as a result can create better opportunities for growth.



DMI
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1544 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 39774 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 2):
The ATP is the equivalent of a PhD in aviation.

You've been spending too much time at Embry Riddle. Big grin
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
I suspect that NetJets and similar operations would give you a fairly predictable schedule (as far as hours, anyway; you would fly to a lot of different places.)

With NJA, you know your workdays. You don't know what time you'll leave on day 1 until 1800 LCL the day before and you don't know what time you'll get home on the last day until the day before. Even then it could change, but you'll be at your home airport at 2359 lcl or will make some extra cashola. Anything in between is ever changing and very fluid. It's not unusual to see both coasts two or three times in 7 days depending on what airplane you're flying. You'll also see a lot of the Caribbean and sometimes oceanic flying.

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 8):
"When things go bad, the first thing that gets cut from a corporate or wealthy individual's expenses is the aircraft. It's not essential to the core business. But it's awfully hard to run an airline without airplanes!"


So true! Airline flying is generally easier IMHO than corporate. It's also more structured and you have protections afforded to you at most airlines you don't have flying corporate. There are plenty of pluses and negatives to each type of flying. It's all about what you want out of your aviation career. You're going to hit major speed bumps along the way in either path, and you can always change directions if you desire. I don't see how you could make a bad choice if you've got your heart set on flying for a living.

[Edited 2010-06-15 20:36:26]

User currently offlinefalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 39520 times:

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 8):
"When things go bad, the first thing that gets cut from a corporate or wealthy individual's expenses is the aircraft. It's not essential to the core business.

Often true but not always accurate. In my case, our flight department has trippled in size in under 6 years and while nothing is ever set in stone, the company aircraft have absolutely contributed to the growth and success of my principal's privately held company. We're not doing Cabo and Nice every day, more like Poplar Bluff, MO; Gadsden, AL and Woodward, OK. Places without any commercial service whatsoever, places we can knock out in one day vs. several days of airlining and driving. Our chairman recognizes the value of business aviation and the considerable savings of time and increased efficiency.
Been flying Part 91 corporate for the past 6 years and wouldn't go to the airlines for anything. Flew Part 135 charter cargo and passengers for 10 years before that and the few reputable charter operators out there can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Charter is typically on call, all the time, often getting only the required 13 twenty-four hour periods of hard time off per calendar quarter. Charter yields are extremely low and the environment is not for everyone. Part 91 has its moments but 95% of my weekends are free, sometimes I fly 2 or 3 days a week, sometimes I don't fly at all and my time is mine. I've never been away for more than 5 days, our principal has a young family and wants to be home as much as possible. As mentioned above, it would be nice to know our schedules several weeks out but operators who afford that are few and far between. The aviation landscape has changed a lot, there are positives and negatives everywhere, airline, charter or corporate but make no mistake, there is no panacea in aviation. Just the viewpoint from a corporate guy who considers himself very lucky.



My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlinecobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 39387 times:

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 9):
I actually got my ATP in 1978 in (drum roll, please...) a Cessna 172! Yep, you can get a single-engine ATP even though there is NO FAA requirement for a single-engine ATP in any ops. A year later I got the mulit-engine ATP with my DC-3 type ride. That ATP single and multi-engine land rating always elicits a comment every sim check I take. (The usual says commmercial privilages, single engine land.) I'm rather proud of my C-172 type-rating! Russ Farris

Stupid ain't it? Same here, almost every FI has ATPL


User currently offlineSLCGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38276 times:

Quoting richm (Reply 1):
Private Pilot = Someone who will typically fly for pleasure or for personal use (non profit)
Commercial Pilot = Someone who can fly for hire and/or profit but with restrictions
Airline Transport Pilot = Someone who is qualified to fly for an airline and be in command of an aircraft

Good basic description, except all pilots (not just ATPs) are considered to be in command of the aircraft they are flying. A Private Pilot flying a Cessna has the same authority/responsibilty for that aircrafts operation as an Airline Transport Pilot flying an A380.


User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38180 times:

As a charter pilot, I can assure you the job is incredibly interesting, much more so than flying for a regional. The variety of destinations is unparalleled (I leave on a seven day trip for Sofia, Bulgaria and then Djibouti this evening). But, everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

First off, you're going to get your licenses and ratings, hopefully up through CFII. While it seems to be becoming more common for guys to stop at the Commercial Multiengine rating, it would definitely be to your benefit to work as an instructor for a few years. It was readily apparent in training at my first airline job who had or had not been an instructor (and still holds true on the flight deck of a Boeing).

Next step is generally flying for a regional. This is a great way to gain experience on jets and in the more complicated ATC environment above 3500' (the de facto limit in flight instructing). It's also a good way to gain experience in an airline environment and see if this is the direction you'd like to go.

From there, as you gain experience, your options increase. If you're looking for consistency, I'd stick to scheduled, part 121 flying (also an option with charters). Working for a charter gives you a lot more excitement, but the pay is significantly lower. It's still leaps and bounds above a regional, but there are always trade offs.

I think the best advice I'd give you is to allow your mind to stay open to any number of possibilities. Don't rush to a decision on any career path, and never pick a company as a stepping stone. When you make the choice, ensure that you can be happy and function in that capacity for the foreseeable future. Ironically, I chose my first regional (American Eagle) expecting to be there for years. I wasn't there for two years when my current job opportunity came up. I expect to be here for many years. I love my job, my coworkers and the type of flying I do, but who knows?

Good Luck, enjoy your training, and most importantly, study, it it'll save you thousands!


User currently offlinemy1le From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 37523 times:

It is like all jobs. If you get in with a good flight department it makes the flying better. If you take a job that requires you to be on the road more than at home, well its up to you. Personally, I am planning to go the PART 91 or 135 route over the 121 because I hate the thought of flying a regional jet for minimum wage. With the amount of training and costs associated with getting into the right seat (you will not land a left seat job right away) cannot be paid off with a $14-20k a year salary.

Like I said earlier, I am looking to do Corp. flying. I have about 3 years left of school down at Riddle and then hope to do it. I work around Corp jets just about everyday and the flying just IS BETTER! With the thought of being in DC today, Nassua tomorrow, Aspen the next, thats my kind of flying. Not ORD-MCO-ORD-JFK etc.

Just my opinion.

my1le


User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 36820 times:

20 years ago I was faced with the airline vs. corporate fork-in-road. At that time a job at United was the holy grail of aviation. How things have changed, no?

Took that "corporate" job, actually it was 135 jet charter, and spent the next 13 years learning vast amounts about worldwide jet aircraft operations. Parlayed that into a true part 91 Challenger job which evolved into a one owner Global Express pilot position. Total number of employers in 20 years? Three. Jobs lost to downsizing or for any other reason? Zero. I am now glad I didn't follow the rest of the crowd toward United Airlines or any other.

Upside? Money equal to the major airline senior captain salaries and any day at work is a good day. I can count on that. We spend a lot of time away from home but often spend it sitting on a Hawaiian beach or playing "tourist" in Europe, NYC...or San Antonio, TX. It's all good.

Downside? I have 3 weeks of unpredictable scheduling followed by 1 week off. No travel benefits unless you count the gobs of Marriott points we all earn. But the kicker? My wife forfeited her career to be home and raise the kids as my schedule has always been so erratic and unpredictable. The family takes a beating if the spouse is not 100% supportive. It can be difficult for some.

All-in-all I would choose to follow the same route again.

Good luck to you. Work hard, pay attention, and a with lucky break or two you will make a great career out of whatever you decide.

26.2


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3711 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 34817 times:

Quoting my1le (Reply 16):
It is like all jobs. If you get in with a good flight department it makes the flying better. If you take a job that requires you to be on the road more than at home, well its up to you. Personally, I am planning to go the PART 91 or 135 route over the 121 because I hate the thought of flying a regional jet for minimum wage. With the amount of training and costs associated with getting into the right seat (you will not land a left seat job right away) cannot be paid off with a $14-20k a year salary.

I suppose if you get lucky and manage to network with the right people that might be true. I don't know many corp aviation departments that are in the habit of hiring 300 hour wonder kids straight out of Riddle though - I know ours doesn't.



PHX based
User currently offlinemy1le From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 34448 times:

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 17):
Upside? Money equal to the major airline senior captain salaries and any day at work is a good day. I can count on that. We spend a lot of time away from home but often spend it sitting on a Hawaiian beach or playing "tourist" in Europe, NYC...or San Antonio, TX. It's all good

26point2 has a good point. Down at Riddle I hear about how bizjet pilots are a "limo driver"... Well I would rather be a "limo driver" who gets to enjoy the locations the operators go to. If they want to go to Europe... guess what, you get to go to Europe. Better yet, you get paid AND you get to log the time. If you wanted to take a "vacation" to Europe while you were in the airlines you would be sitting in the back of a 400 pax wide body not logging the time.

The part I like the most, you can get into a Part 91 or 135 operation and it is a family. You will be flying a plane that the owner’s actually take pride in owning, it will be clean and best yet... you will personally know the mechanic of the flight department. It isn't like getting on a plane that was last looked at 30 hrs ago, in a maintenance base some hours away from where you are. If something lights up, you can get it fixed right away.

I look forward to Part 91/135 Ops in the years to come.

My1le
"Friends don't let friends get furloughed.... Corporate Aviation is the way to go!"


User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 34159 times:

Quoting dl767captain (Thread starter):
I'm starting flight school in a couple weeks and was just thinking about possible options in my future. I've always wanted to be a commercial pilot but was just wondering what life is like as a private pilot compared to a commercial pilot. I imagine it depends on if you work for a charter airline, or single company, or even a family. Just curious how an average work month compares to a commercial pilot who has some sort of schedule (not set in stone but have some idea of what they will be doing). Do private pilots work on call, or have scheduled flights etc.

I came from the airlines, I'm on the G-IV at NJI. Best job I've ever had.... I've got 25 years to go, and I hope this is my last job.... I love NJI (netjets international)


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1620 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 34073 times:

Ad Hoc charter work is tough work and can be feast or famine. I did the 135 thing for 7 years in the Lear and Falcon. It was by far the most challenging flying I ever did but it was well worth it. Middle of the night calls to fly anything from car parts to heart transplant teams to rock stars. You are in bed sound asleep one moment and 45 minutes later, you are definitely awake crackling along at 120+ decibels with a VSI pegged at 6000 fpm in one of the first Learjets built.

European and S. American are a 3 hour heads up, you never knew where you are going. It builds character, that's for sure. Hand flying and shooting raw data approaches was the norm and it was just how it was. Made me a better and I think smarter pilot, that's for sure. Now I'm doing ad hoc and some scheduled runs on the 727 and it's still fun, but not as crazy as my 135 days. I personally want nothing to do with passenger charter/fractional type flying. I feel that you have to be a bit of a kiss a** to the customer most of the time. There is of course nothing wrong that, just not my cup of tea.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
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