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Eastern DC-4s  
User currently offlinebullwinkle From United States of America, joined May 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

Does anyone know when Eastern retired their DC-4s? They still appear in a 1957 timetable.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

As I recall they retired them, then got some more with the Colonial merger. You're asking about the second retirement?

User currently offlinebullwinkle From United States of America, joined May 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

I wasn' t sure when they merged w/Colonial. After 1960?

User currently offlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3527 times:
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Eastern operated DC4s on coach services untill 1957.Im not sure that they operated the Colonial airplanes after the consilidation.One was retained to haul engines around the system untill 1960 or 61.
Sparky


User currently offlineN6168E From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting bullwinkle (Reply 2):
I wasn' t sure when they merged w/Colonial. After 1960?

Colonial merged with Eastern in 1956.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

The Colonial DC-4's were replaced with CV-440's in 1957, when EA took delivery of 20 aircraft. The next aircraft retired were the L-749A's, in 1961 followed by the Martin 404's in 1962/63, 15 of which were sold to Mohawk along with some local service routes that belonged to Colonial in upstate NY. Colonial operated only DC-4 and DC-3 aircraft at the time of the acquisition by Eastern.

User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

Looks like I was wrong about EA retiring their DC-4s before the merger-- they're in all the timetables I checked. The 1/58 OAG still shows some "Skymaster" flights.

User currently offlinenomadic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Quoting milesrich (Reply 5):
15 of which were sold to Mohawk along with some local service routes that belonged to Colonial in upstate NY. Colonial operated only DC-4 and DC-3 aircraft at the time of the acquisition by Eastern.

Did Colonial/Eastern operate DC-4s into Glens Falls, NY or was this strictley a DC-3 station before the 404s arrived? As a child I remember seeing the 'Fly Eastern Airlines' sign at the entrance to the terminal but I don't remember what type of aircraft came in.


User currently offlineN6168E From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Quoting nomadic (Reply 7):

Did Colonial/Eastern operate DC-4s into Glens Falls, NY or was this strictley a DC-3 station before the 404s arrived? As a child I remember seeing the 'Fly Eastern Airlines' sign at the entrance to the terminal but I don't remember what type of aircraft came in.

Colonial operated DC-3's to GFL. I called a friend who worked in SLK for Colonial & Eastern and he told me that Eastern operated the 3's for a while before the 404's came on line.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 6):
Looks like I was wrong about EA retiring their DC-4s before the merger-- they're in all the timetables I checked. The 1/58 OAG still shows some "Skymaster" flights.

Capital and Northwest were the last trunks to fly DC-4's, as neither airline purchased Convairs or Martin 404's from the factory. (NW inherited 580's in the RC merger). United grounded all the Capital DC-4's, and L-049's on June 30, 1961, the last day before merged operations. (The merger took place on June 1, 1961). I think NW retired them that year also or in 1962).

Quoting nomadic (Reply 7):
Did Colonial/Eastern operate DC-4s into Glens Falls, NY or was this strictley a DC-3 station before the 404s arrived? As a child I remember seeing the 'Fly Eastern Airlines' sign at the entrance to the terminal but I don't remember what type of aircraft came in.

I have a 12/1/1955 OAG and it shows Colonial Airliners operating DC-4's into Glen Falls with two round trips per day, one operating LGA-ALB-GFL-BTV-PLB, and the other LGA-ALB-GFL-PLB-BTV. I believe Eastern replaced the DC-4's and DC-3's with Martins and then the Convairs when they were delivered. All 20 of the Convair 440's were delivered between April and July of 1957, and were the last piston powered aircraft operated by Eastern. In later years, they were mostly operated out of Atlanta to smaller cities in Georgia, Florida, the Carolinas, Alabama and Tennessee, as well as a trips from DCA up through RDG, LNS, AVP, BGM and into LEX, SDF, CRW and HTS. All 20 continued to be operated until they were retired by Eastern in 1970. (No hull losses with EA). They all were sold to other operators and soldiered on with the PW 2800's, none of the 20 being converted to Turboprops as of 1991.


User currently offlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2946 times:
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Capitals Connies were parked in 1960 and replaced with DC-6Bs leased from Pan Am.These along with one Viscount were the only aircraft operated with Capitals final color scheme.Five Electras were painted but never delivered.The DC-4s were parked in the summer of 1961.United did operate 3 ex Capital DC-3s in the northeast until March,1962.
Colonial and Eastern merged in 1956 but was operated as the Colonial division until June 1957 when the last Colonial flight was operated with DC-3 N16096 on a multi stop round trip out of DCA.An Eastern Martin flew with the -3 making each stop to introduce each city to the new name and aircraft.Most of these smaller cities along with some Martins and many Eastern employees went to Mohawk in 1960-61.The prize for Eastern in the Colonial merger was the Canadian cities and Bermuda.
Sparky


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3012 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2935 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

the last true Ea C-54/DC-4 was retired in 1960, but the last passengers were flown in 1958, N88902 was used for some cargo runs for 2 years after that however. One of the last passenger assignments was a contract with a resort in Bermuda from Boston in 1957/1958. I don't have the name of the resort but EA later lost the contract to PA as i recall.

N88902 C-54B 10449/DC180 728 11/50 05/60

N88902 Was the last... however in 1967 a single example was leased to cover some contract cargo routes:

N88843 DC-4 3113/DO3 01/67 02/67 ex MK;

From the old Aeromoe archives, now gone but i still have a copy of the EAL fleet... heres all the C-54/DC-4s/R5Ds:

N34045 R5D-2 10542/DC273 718 09/46 10/51
N34070 R5D-1 10536/DC267 719 09/46 06/51
N4270 C-54B 18370/DO144 06/56 / ex Colonial
N54365 R5D-1 10492/DC223 720 /46 /51
N56010 C-54A 10330/DC61 501 / / LF TC
N75415 C-54A 10359/DC90 502 / / LF TC
N75416 C-54A 10411/DC142 / / LF TC
N79000 C-54A 3058/DO5 721 04/51 05/55
N86576 R5D-1 10491/DC222 702 05/46 05/51
N86577 R5D-1 10482/DC213 703 06/46 10/51
N86579 R5D-2 18334/DO108 710 08/46 05/51
N86580 R5D-1 10531/DC262 701 05/46 06/51
N86582 R5D-2 18329/DO103 704 04/46 11/51
N88704 R5D-2 10443/DC174 712 09/46 11/51
N88705 R5D-2 10495/DC226 713 06/46 10/58
N88706 R5D-1 10297/DC28 722 / /
N88707 R5D-2 18378/DO152 714 07/46 05/51
N88724 R5D-1 10535/DC266 715 08/46 11/51
N88727 R5D-2 18365/DO139 716 09/46 11/01/49 WO near National airport, Wash. D.C. after mid-air collision
N88729 R5D-2 18396/DO170 717 / 10/11/46 WO Alexandria, VA
N88811 R5D-1 10484/DC215 705 05/46 /
N88812 R5D-1 10509/DC240 706 06/46 10/51
N88813 R5D-2 18344/DO118 707 10/46 /
N88814 R5D-2 18380/DO154 708 11/45 05/30/47 WO Point Deposit, Havre de Grace, MD
N88815 R5D-2 18331/DO105 709 07/46 /
N88843 DC-4 3113/DO3 01/67 02/67 ex MK; cvtd C-54
N88890 C-54B 10481/DC212 726 10/50 05/55
N88894 C-54B 10496/DC227 727; 803 10/50 05/55
N88902 C-54B 10449/DC180 728 11/50 05/60
N88939 C-54B 18397/DO171 729 11/50 05/55
N90412 C-54A 3085/DO27 730 06/50 06/55
N90421 C-54B 18394/DO168 724 03/50 /58
N90425 C-54B 10534/DC265 725 04/50 05/55
N90432 C-54A 10314/DC45 731 06/50 05/55
N90443 C-54A 10352/DC83 782 06/50 06/55
N93266 C-54A 10299/DC30 06/56 / ex Colonial
N93267 C-54A 7476/DO84 06/56 06/56 ex Colonial
N95490 C-54D 10774/DC505 923 12/46 05/55



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting sparky35805 (Reply 10):
Capitals Connies were parked in 1960 and replaced with DC-6Bs leased from Pan Am.These along with one Viscount were the only aircraft operated with Capitals final color scheme.Five Electras were painted but never delivered.The DC-4s were parked in the summer of 1961.United did operate 3 ex Capital DC-3s in the northeast until March,1962.
Colonial and Eastern merged in 1956 but was operated as the Colonial division until June 1957 when the last Colonial flight was operated with DC-3 N16096 on a multi stop round trip out of DCA.An Eastern Martin flew with the -3 making each stop to introduce each city to the new name and aircraft.Most of these smaller cities along with some Martins and many Eastern employees went to Mohawk in 1960-61.The prize for Eastern in the Colonial merger was the Canadian cities and Bermuda.
Sparky

United operated the three DC-3's on the DCA/PHL- HAR-IPT-ELM-ROC-BUF route only. I assumed they stayed in the Capital Nighthawk colors. I remember when United repainted the first Viscount, and published photographs of the aircraft in Mainliner Magazine, one photo showing the aircraft covered in some sort of solvant that removed the Nighthawk Red and White and then a photo when it came out of the DCA paintshop. I believe UA always did the maintenance on the Viscounts at DCA. Did they later service other aircraft there after the Viscounts were retired on January 14, 1969, or did they close the base before or after that.


User currently offlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2795 times:
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The DC-3s were not repainted.The first Viscount repainted was N7408.Unlike now,tere was no interim scheme.They stayed in full Capital colors untill the last one was repainted in March 1962.
Sparky


User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

MILESRICH......a date type-o there in your post 9........Capital ceased ops and UA became the carrier of their routes save northern Michigan June 30 1961. I flew a Capital Viscount June 18( HEY thats todays date) 1961 FNT-ORD with a stop at MBS, then changed to a TW 880 for MKC, my first jet ride.

I have the last UA sched before the merger, the last Capital sched and the first UA sched after the merrger..eff June 30,1961.
Looking through boxes in the basement the other day I found a bunch of 1980-87 OAG's....a BUNCH!!!

safe
PS Did I mention my first commercial airplane ride was an Eastern DC 4 from Richmond to Newark with a stop at DCA?
My parents told me. I was 3 years old and don't remember that one... Winter in 1948 , Feb or March.
Opps.....I'm showing my age again.

[Edited 2010-06-18 14:20:30]

[Edited 2010-06-18 14:21:39]


If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2701 times:
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Capital became part of United June 1 1961.The schedules were combined July 1,1961,but airport sinage started to be changed on June 1.At smaller stations this was done in a few days.Flight announcements and telephone service changed to United on June 1.
Sparky


User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting sparky35805 (Reply 15):

You know guy, some of us are packrats.......like me. I keep all my tickets, jackets, scheds etc
I have that June 18 ticket and the June 25 return....which was a CO flight MKC-ORD and Capital ORD-FNT. Its in a Capital jacket, with a Capital ticket and two Capital.... not UA
flights on the ticket. The ticket was bought at the Capital ticket counter at FNT a few days before the flight.
Now, we could have had United flights operated by Capital airlines like Delta flights operated by NW, but we just dont know that.
Im sticking with the June 30th.
Sorry guys, but........I presented my PROOF. Your turn.

   safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 11):
From the old Aeromoe archives, now gone

Not gone, just not updated for the past few years, although if you spot an error he will still correct the data.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2534 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2654 times:
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Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 16):
Im sticking with the June 30th

Yes, I agree with that date. The CA signage at ATL did not come down until the last minute either. The new terminal had only been open a short time when the merger was concluded. The ops office out on the concourse had CA remnants for years after the merger.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2625 times:
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You guys have me doubting myself.I was just a kid hanging out at the near by airport here in HSV.Memories from then are fading,but not as fast as memories from a few hours back.We were a small station,I think maybe 8 departures daily,all Viscounts by the time of the merger.Signs here both at the counter and airside were changed on Thursday June 1,1961.The route map behind the counter was changed to United at that time and flight announcements became United Ailines Vicount Mainliner service.Flight numbers did not change.It was strange to hear a United flight announcement and look and see a Capital Viscount.A combined schedule was issued for July 1,1961.This was here in HSV,a small station.
Sparky


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2534 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2540 times:
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Quoting sparky35805 (Reply 19):
You guys have me doubting myself

Aw, forgettaboutit-----it comes with our age group!
I guess we have a memory-overload and sometimes it is too hard to recall specifics.
It could be that the station manager at HSV was delighted with the merger and didn't want to wait until the end of June to get everything ready. He may even have been directed by the exec. ofc. to do so. Who knows---too much time has passed.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinebullwinkle From United States of America, joined May 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Speaking of Capital, Lake Central took over their PIT to CRW route (via HLG, MGW, and CKB) either late '60 or early '61. This was DC-3 service. Was wondering if Lake Central and other smaller carriers got the routes United wasn't interested in picking up.

User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting bullwinkle (Reply 21):
Speaking of Capital, Lake Central took over their PIT to CRW route (via HLG, MGW, and CKB) either late '60 or early '61. This was DC-3 service. Was wondering if Lake Central and other smaller carriers got the routes United wasn't interested in picking up.

United kept the PIT-CRW-TRI-TYS-ATL route after the merger and didn't dump it until deregulation.

The only routes that UA gave up at the time of the merger was local service to Northern Michigan (Pellston, Traverse City, Sault Ste. Marie), that went to North Central.

United shortly after the merger gave up INT and consolidated operations at GSO. The first route to be kicked was the BUF/ROC - ELM - IPT - HAR - DCA, and IPT-PHL routes, the last DC-3 routes that UA had held on to. IPT also lost its TWA Constellation service that operated PIT-IPT-BGM-ALB-BOS. That TWA Route actually went first in 1965, and I think UA dropped their route in 1966 or 1967. All those routes were awarded to AL, who by that time, or shortly thereafter had acquired LC.

UA temporarily prior to deregulation expanded their southern presence by competing for and being awarded non stop West Coast authority from MEM and BHM. The first UA cities to be dropped were MOB and TRI, followed by AVL and then CHA on June 8, 1979, then ATL.



Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 14):
MILESRICH......a date type-o there in your post 9........Capital ceased ops and UA became the carrier of their routes save northern Michigan June 30 1961. I flew a Capital Viscount June 18( HEY thats todays date) 1961 FNT-ORD with a stop at MBS, then changed to a TW 880 for MKC, my first jet ride.

I have the last UA sched before the merger, the last Capital sched and the first UA sched after the merrger..eff June 30,1961.

Looking through boxes in the basement the other day I found a bunch of 1980-87 OAG's....a BUNCH!!!

safe
PS Did I mention my first commercial airplane ride was an Eastern DC 4 from Richmond to Newark with a stop at DCA?
My parents told me. I was 3 years old and don't remember that one... Winter in 1948 , Feb or March.
Opps.....I'm showing my age again.


Safe: What date is wrong? The merger took place on June 1, 1961 but operations were separate until a month later. In fact, I remember at the old ORD terminal, the two counters still operating separately.

I don't have the pre merger timetables but I have a July 1, 1961 UA post merger one.

I never flew in a DC-4, but I am six years younger than you are.  


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 16):
You know guy, some of us are packrats.......like me. I keep all my tickets, jackets, scheds etc
I have that June 18 ticket and the June 25 return....which was a CO flight MKC-ORD and Capital ORD-FNT. Its in a Capital jacket, with a Capital ticket and two Capital.... not UA
flights on the ticket. The ticket was bought at the Capital ticket counter at FNT a few days before the flight.
Now, we could have had United flights operated by Capital airlines like Delta flights operated by NW, but we just dont know that.
Im sticking with the June 30th.
Sorry guys, but........I presented my PROOF. Your turn.
Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 16):
You know guy, some of us are packrats.......like me. I keep all my tickets, jackets, scheds etc
I have that June 18 ticket and the June 25 return....which was a CO flight MKC-ORD and Capital ORD-FNT. Its in a Capital jacket, with a Capital ticket and two Capital.... not UA
flights on the ticket. The ticket was bought at the Capital ticket counter at FNT a few days before the flight.
Now, we could have had United flights operated by Capital airlines like Delta flights operated by NW, but we just dont know that.
Im sticking with the June 30th.


SAFE: I am sorry but you are WRONG. You are correct that all Capital flights were operated as Capital flights until July 1, 1961, but the actual merger took place on June 1, 1961. During June 1961, the flights were Capital flights but the airline was owned by United, and was part of United, sort of like the Northwest Delta merger recently. For proof, go to the following web links:

http://www.uahf.org/mergers.asp

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,2691,00.html

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/325/325.F2d.576.15176_1.html

That last one is from a 1963 US Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals Decision where United was the Defendant being sued by the Union over something that took place upon the June 1, 1961 merger.

You did fly on Capital during June of 1961, from ORD to FNT, but Capital was part of United but being operated completely separately for that month.
Sorry guys, but........I presented my PROOF. Your turn.


User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2462 times:

MilesRich...I read the BRAC vs United(most of it, not every paragraph) and saw the June 1st date.
I can buy your statement about Capital and the month of June but I am still searching my vast MESS of airline stuff, news clippings, etc to find the June 30th merger date.........which is possible I may not.

I'll not give up until the last round is fired..........LOL
catch ya later....
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
25 Post contains links milesrich : Safe: There are hundreds of web articles you can find that verify the June 1, 1961 date. Find one that gives July 1, 1961 and you probably will not fi
26 bullwinkle : The route I was referring to was all the smaller airports between PIT and CRW (HLG, MGW,EKN, CKB). These places appear on the front of the 4-30-61 Lak
27 Post contains images isitsafenow : It looks like that MilesRich guy is right ......again. I have in print June 30th but that must be wrong. Everything else I find says June 1st. I stil
28 September11 : rest in peace, Eastern!
29 sparky35805 : Thats what its all about.We get enough people involved in the discussion and the facts come out.It doesnt matter whos right or wrong.Its also good to
30 WA707atMSP : MOB and TRI were dropped before deregulation. ATL-MOB-MSY and MOB-BHM are on the route map in UA's 1970 annual report, but MOB is not on the route ma
31 isitsafenow : Not to stir up more trouble, but Eastern Airlines LLC exists today. One of (perhaps the only) plane(s) flew just south of my burg on its way to MDW la
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