coopdogyo From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 189 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9522 times:
I highly doubt any one will take over any of these routes except for some of the routes out of LAX. My guess would be LAX-BOI could be picked up but it is not very likely. But unless QX decides to reinstate some of the other routes in the future no one will pick them up. Also could this be part of the review the new QX president promised?
I also noticed and hidden at the bottom of the press release is the fact that QX is subleasing 4 of its Crj's to somebody. I guess this is where the extra planes are going. Also puts them one step closer to being all Q400.
n7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1588 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9403 times:
The sub-lease is something I was told about a few weeks ago and posted on here - but one of the moderators/auditors took it down...
The planes are going to Atlantic Southeast for Delta Connection service. They're being refitted with 9 first class seats before they go into service. I don't know how long the length of sub-lease is for. ASA recently announced it was recalling several dozen pilots for the new aircraft.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4425 posts, RR: 16 Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9358 times:
I can't believe that, with the loss of PIH-BOI, IDA-BOI was the only air service from Eastern Idaho to Boise. I have a hard time believing they couldn't find the loads when G4 is doing just fine flying IDA-LAS and LAX, and UAX is flying to DEN.
Someone will pick up the route. despite the nay sayers, East Idaho needs an air link to the capital.
Meteorologist From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 137 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9355 times:
I wondered how much longer some of the mid/longer distance regional flights into LAX would last after GEG-LAX was axed last year. I can't say I'm shocked to see LAX-BOI and LAX-RDM are among the casualties. In addition, the BOI--IDA service seemed like it was always having some sort of a sale, so I'm sure the route struggled. Hopefully QX doesn't just exit the mid/longer regional routes altogether, but it certainly seems they are trending that way. I just don't see their product with 29" pitch and no recline as competitive against all their competition that seem to be adding F to 70 seat RJs, let alone a mainline flight from anyone else. That's coming from an AS MVPG, too. I like the complimentary wine/beer, but I'd need an awful lot of it to willingly sit on QX for more than an hour.
n7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1588 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9234 times:
Quoting Meteorologist (Reply 5): I just don't see their product with 29" pitch and no recline as competitive against all their competition that seem to be adding F to 70 seat RJs, let alone a mainline flight from anyone else. That's coming from an AS MVPG, too. I like the complimentary wine/beer, but I'd need an awful lot of it to willingly sit on QX for more than an hour.
I completely agree. It's one thing to sit on a Q400 SEA-GEG; it's a whole different situation BOI-LAX or anything comparable.
I really believe, it's a hunch, that the Air Group's long term goal going forward is to get a third-party to run E-jets or comparable between the AS capacity and the QX capacity. Pilot groups at both AS and QX would need to negotiate...and that will be incredibly tough.
Otherwise I think QX's vision of Q400's anywhere and everywhere is flawed. There are markets, no doubt. But believing you can fly anything in the network with that plane, in its no-frills configuration, is silly imo.
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2750 posts, RR: 31 Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9205 times:
This is not good news for us Angelenos. It looks like the only flights that are doing well for QX are those that go to Northern California, while the longer flights to Idaho, Oregon, and Arizona are struggling. I guess that means that we shouldn't expect to see a larger AAG presence at LAX anytime soon...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
Meteorologist From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 137 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 8921 times:
Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 10): Boise is really getting the shaft from Horizon over the last year or so, with service to GEG, LAX and IDA all being axed. Really disappointing.
This is no different than AS/QX has done to GEG in the past 3 years....axing LAX, SMF, SAN, BOI...with only SMF and SJC being added. I guess with AS/QX, if you aren't in SEA or Hawaii, you don't get resources.
The whole purpose of LAX was Mexico. When the combination of Swine Flu and Cartel fighting killed the loads to Mexico, AS doesn't really have a purpose at LAX except feed SEA and PDX flights (not any different than any other station). Are the loads to Mexico getting better? Maybe...but apparently not fast enough. Sad to see flights to PRC/FLG go away.
For SANFan...I think the thought of QX setting up shop at SAN is pretty much doomed. If QX can't make LAX work (at a hub station), what makes you think SAN is going to work as an out-station???
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 7): I wonder what if any changes will happen to SBA-SEA.
With SMF-SBA gone, I think SBA's days are numbered. Unless QX decides to try SJC-SBA, it's a matter of time when SBA is pulled. In my opinion, QX is going to regret flying SJC-LAX, with mounting losses on that route. I think that route will be gone just as fast as it arrived.
What about the two QX Mexico stations??? They'll be history too.
Also, I think LGB will be history too. With just two QX flights from SEA, the cost of maintaining a QX station at LGB has got to be unprofitable. Give it up QX...close your LGB station.
I think QX will be closing additional routes/cities and concentrating on core areas where profits run decent. Any city not pulling its weight be history...kind of the G4 mentality.
WhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 636 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8820 times:
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12): With SMF-SBA gone, I think SBA's days are numbered. Unless QX decides to try SJC-SBA, it's a matter of time when SBA is pulled. In my opinion, QX is going to regret flying SJC-LAX, with mounting losses on that route. I think that route will be gone just as fast as it arrived.
SBA-SMF only came about because of XE performance on SBA-SMF and the ability to maintain their PNW flights as one-stops by using SMF as a stop or connecting point. Why wouldn't QX go back to 2X per day to the PNW, running one NS to SEA and a NS to PDX as done prior to the SMF shift?
hatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1475 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8800 times:
Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 4): I can't believe that, with the loss of PIH-BOI, IDA-BOI was the only air service from Eastern Idaho to Boise. I have a hard time believing they couldn't find the loads when G4 is doing just fine flying IDA-LAS and LAX, and UAX is flying to DEN.
Bingo, why on earth would someone connect through BOI if they can fly direct? You pretty much answered your own question. G4 has done pretty well in IDA at the expense of AS/QX.
Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 10): Boise is really getting the shaft from Horizon over the last year or so, with service to GEG, LAX and IDA all being axed. Really disappointing.
Why is it always the airline that's doing it? If pax aren't buying tix at a profitable price point, it doesn't matter how many folks are on the plane.
Quoting Meteorologist (Reply 11): I guess with AS/QX, if you aren't in SEA or Hawaii, you don't get resources.
I don't think this has anything to do with Hawaii. Were talking about QX and some CRJs leaving. When QX got rid of the Dash 8-200s, it was obvious some routes just weren't going to make it anymore.
Quoting n7371f (Reply 6): Otherwise I think QX's vision of Q400's anywhere and everywhere is flawed. There are markets, no doubt. But believing you can fly anything in the network with that plane, in its no-frills configuration, is silly imo.
I honestly don't think that's the thought. I think the hope is that when air travel finally turns around, the CRJs will be out the door, and the 737 can again take over some of the routes that suffered when the recession hit. Or be cut altogether.
QX is a luxury for the Air Group that many airlines like WN don't have. Some service is going to suffer for sure when the CRJs are gone. But people forget that a lot of routes in the system wouldn't be served period if it weren't for QX.
So it just disappoints me that everyone quickly flings everything they have at AS/QX for making a business decision. In a perfect world, every route would be sustainable. But it's not, and keeping your hopes up that they always will be is setting yourself up to be disappointed.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12): If QX can't make LAX work (at a hub station), what makes you think SAN is going to work as an out-station???
Part of the misconception with a lot of these responses is I think people are assuming all these route cuts are because they're not working. In reality, 4 airplanes are leaving and nothing to fill their place. AS doesn't have any spare aircraft this summer with the summer schedule in place to take over. So unfortunately, a lot of the shakeup wasn't expected either and I'm sure it would have been more prohibitive to try and rework the schedules to get an airplane back on some of these routes.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12): Any city not pulling its weight be history...kind of the G4 mentality.
If more airlines did this, they'd be as profitable as G4. Sometimes it just comes down to business as crappy as it is.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 8): I guess that means that we shouldn't expect to see a larger AAG presence at LAX anytime soon...
Who says we won't at some point do O&D out of LAX? I don't think anyone here thinks we can continue to just feed things into SEA/PDX/ANC forever. Growth has to come from somewhere. People are putting the doom and gloom on LAX prematurely in my opinion.
cic777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8701 times:
Does this mean the flight between ACV and RDD will be discontinued as well? I never understood how there was a market there. Wonder if they'll use any spare aircraft to try and start some new markets. One comes to my mind, but it is probably just wishful thinking as usual on my part.
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5766 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8634 times:
Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 13): SBA-SMF only came about because of XE performance on SBA-SMF and the ability to maintain their PNW flights as one-stops by using SMF as a stop or connecting point. Why wouldn't QX go back to 2X per day to the PNW, running one NS to SEA and a NS to PDX as done prior to the SMF shift?
What makes you think that QX will retain the PNW-SBA flights? Don't get me wrong...I hope they keep the PNW-SBA flights. But can QX maintain a profit on that route with just one flight per day? In the future, I'm hoping they open 2X or 3X SJC-SBA, since AS/QX seems to be building a small empire there.
Quoting hatbutton (Reply 14): AS doesn't have any spare aircraft this summer with the summer schedule in place to take over.
Aren't these changes occurring with the Fall schedule when a lot of AS flights are reduced? Or does that happen more with the winter schedule?
Quoting hatbutton (Reply 14): Sometimes it just comes down to business as crappy as it is.
Sometimes I have to pinch myself, reset my brain and not let my emotions take over. You're right...business is business. It does upset me that to see QX reduce itself, especially when we are beginning to see somewhat of a rebound. But I guess we'll have to wait.
What about the parked Lynx Air Q400's???
We've seen a decrease. Could we see some additions or added frequencies to current markets?
Airnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 250 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8584 times:
Quoting cic777 (Reply 16): Does this mean the flight between ACV and RDD will be discontinued as well? I never understood how there was a market there. Wonder if they'll use any spare aircraft to try and start some new markets. One comes to my mind, but it is probably just wishful thinking as usual on my part.
I think there will still be ACV-RDD flights as part of the triangle service between both to LAX, what I took this to mean is that the SEA-RDD, with a tag-on to ACV before continuing to LAX is gone. That route was new last year anyway - when QX dropped PDX-RDD they decided to try SEA-RDD, not too surprising that it hasn't worked out.
All I really want back is PDX-ACV on SOME airline. It's a drag to go through SFO on this route. I still think UA could do it with the EMB120s, particularly since there's no competition anymore. They used to do it with some success with the direct QX competition. Heck maybe they could even stop in MFR for a PDX-MFR-ACV-SFO run. Anyone else think there's an opportunity to expand some United Express flying as QX deals with the limitations of an all-74-seat fleet (and fewer aircraft)?
cic777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8561 times:
I'm going to sound like a broken record in saying this, but I'll say it again (and get flamed for it probably). I wish QX, OO, or somebody would come in and add flights between CIC and PDX, LAX. I'm waiting for the chorus of naysayers to tell me CIC is too close to SMF for that kind of traffic.
I think SBA locals like to avoid SFO and it's ATC issues at all costs when they go north. I took the PDX-SBA CRJ several times when it was nonstop and had trouble nonreving. But after they stuck the stop in SMF, there was never a problem getting a seat.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
hatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1475 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8342 times:
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17): Sometimes I have to pinch myself, reset my brain and not let my emotions take over. You're right...business is business. It does upset me that to see QX reduce itself, especially when we are beginning to see somewhat of a rebound. But I guess we'll have to wait.
I completely understand. As an AS employee I hate to see this too. I grew up watching QX planes criss cross the northwest and hate that it's a shadow of what it used to be. The demise of the 30-seater has just devastated a lot of cities. Once OO's E120s are gone, I'm afraid more communities are going to lose service. They may pick up some stuff from 9-seater operations, but clearly it will never be like it used to be.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17):
We've seen a decrease. Could we see some additions or added frequencies to current markets?
I think there have to be some good intra-California opportunities with the Q400, I know SANFan has made the case a few times. Hopefully in the future QX can tap some of these markets.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17): Aren't these changes occurring with the Fall schedule when a lot of AS flights are reduced? Or does that happen more with the winter schedule?
No unfortunately ASA wanted these airplanes now. It was kind of a, give them now or no deal. And since QX has struggled to find any buyers, they had to make the hard short term decision of getting rid of them now and cleaning up a schedule mess in favor of the long term plans of moving to all Q400s. Sadly, a lot of people are getting furloughed.
The first 2 planes are leaving July 22 and the other 2 are leaving August 22.
Here is a summary of the changes:
BUR-PDX reduced from 4-3x daily
ONT-PDX reduced from 4-3x daily
SBA-SMF reduced from 2-0x daily
ACV/RDD-SEA reduced from 1-0x daily
LAX-RDM reduced from 1-0x daily
LAX-MFR reduced from 2-1x daily
BOI-IDA reduced from 2-0x daily
BOI-LAX reduced from 1-0x daily
LAX-FLG/PRC reduced from 1-0x daily
SEA-GEG 1 QX flight replaced with 1 AS flight
PSC-SEA reduced from 6-5x daily
SEA-YLW reduced from 3-2x daily
SEA-YVR reduced from 6-5x daily plus 1 AS flight
seb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 10778 posts, RR: 16 Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 8136 times:
Or, a much smaller reagional carrier will move in. After PDT lost QX, SeaPort started service. They are only PC-12s, but that is all they need for there and to Newport and Astoria. Maybe some of the smaller communities like IDA or PIH or CEC could use a carrier like that.
Life in the wall is a drag.
25 cic777: I fear CIC will be a part of this, too. OO has made zero effort to offer larger aircraft or flights to places other than SFO. QX I've heard has been
26 FATFlyer: Ended on June 8th. http://www.keyt.com/news/local/85382387.html
27 hatbutton: I'm not entirely certain a PC-12 is right. Big Sky flew BOI-PIH for a year immediately following QX's pull out of the station. QX only flew 2x daily
28 SANFan: Hey D, I think 'button might have beat me to an answer to your question: I admit that these actions by QX ( or The AAG, or whomever...) don't give me
29 PlanesNTrains: Horizon is a very different airline than the were in the 80's flying the F-27 and the Metro III's. Not that that's a bad thing, but times certainly h
30 Airport: The bitter cynical side of me is not surprised. Anyone wanna bet how long it is before we see LWS get the shaft as well? Hell, may as well throw in Sm
31 Tomassjc: Thanks...I figured it might have since the Brasilias weren't flying over my house anymore! Tomas
32 Aloha717200: I'm not talking about connections, though. I'm talking O&D. East Idaho needs a connection to the capital city for economic and political reasons,
33 Alias1024: Interesting timing huh? Horizon admits to their employees that there are discussions to sell the RJs only after the employees read about it on this w
34 EA CO AS: In other news, look for AS to announce a new destination in a few hours. And no, it's not in Hawaii.
35 hatbutton: I think that's the problem though. The decent fare only existed to get butts in seats for connecting flights. Most of the PNW routes aren't profitabl
36 StuckInCA: I don't have data (someone probably does), but the flights seem relatively full when we look to buy tickets (pretty regularly). And... they're NOT ch
37 MaverickM11: I'm honestly surprised that QX left the market before UA. They had the better schedule, lower cost airplane, and in my opinion better onboard service
38 Meteorologist: I don't see a new AS flight or a loss of a QX flight after 8/22? It still looks like 3x AS to SEA and the rest of the cadre all QX.
39 hatbutton: Well my information is straight from the employee website. So it must not be loaded yet.
40 Meteorologist: I'd be absolutely thrilled with a new AS flight. The morning GEG to SEA capacity is nowhere near what it needs to be. It really restricts the feed AS
41 Airport: If I am to believe that QX cut these routes entirely because of profitability issues, then there's just a lot that doesn't make sense to me. For one,
42 Meteorologist: Having flown into BOI many dozens of times, it's definitely a different city than most of the AS/QX markets in the Northwest. This is mostly because S
43 Alias1024: Just a guess, but they probably get pretty good fares for connecting traffic out of LWS. If they can get someone on AS/QX metal out of LWS, it's much
44 ridgid727: Whats really interesting is that a number of years back, SkyWest, Transwestern, Mountain West, Cascade, and at some point in the mix was Gem State Air
45 mtnwest1979: I remember when OO started (and ended) BOI-PIH-IDA/IDA-PIH Dec 83-Feb 84 competing with QX and CZ at the time. Thought it was overkill lol, so many M
46 n7371f: Without knowing the intricacies of the the finances of QX or any other comparable airline, I really wonder if there's a market in the Pac NW for a sma
47 ridgid727: I believe that when SkyWest flew that, their two letter code was QG, it was after they acquired SunAire, that they changed to OO.
48 atcgod: In what? A C206? The BN2? Don't think the BE9L will fly that route profitably. I know they used to have a C402 but I haven't seen that thing since th
49 ridgid727: Their proposal for 'ELY is a PA31-350 or a BE-200 You can see their proposal by going to the 13th page of this link http://www.regulations.gov/search
50 mtnwest1979: True, but since it is OO now, I used that one. I have wondered why they didn't keep QG? OO isn't any better, any I am sure some have thought it was 0
51 cschleic: Since many of the routes to be discontinued actually are flown by Q-400's, but four RJ's are leaving the fleet, which existing RJ routes will be repla
52 flyboy80: I imagine they will pull RJ frequencys out of PDX/SEA-BOI/GEG type markets and replace them with the Q400s.
53 EA CO AS: There's something you need to understand, though, and that's that AAG runs AS and QX as businesses, not as typical airlines. What I mean by that is t
54 je89_w: Not surprised one bit that QX is pulling out from PRC, in fact I'm surprised they even lasted this long. Judging from the amount of people (or lack o
55 wedgetail737: You'd be surprised how much traffic comes from cities like YKM, Wenatchee, Walla Walla, Pasco, etc...especially when the Cascade passes are closed. A
56 bigGSFO: Unfortunately the removal of the regional jets is resulting in layoffs. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...chnology/2012155043_horizon19.html
57 Jacobin777: SJC-I'm all up for it... ... Thanks for the link.. ...according to the article however: "SkyWest has only booked 27% of the seats destines for San Jo
58 PlanesNTrains: While things have certainly changed, some years ago we were waiting for our flight in SEA, and the QX gate agents were looking for volunteers to bump
59 wedgetail737: Oh I would probably give them a try at least once...always have to try something new...even if it doesn't last very long.
60 mtnwest1979: Hey, maybe Empire will get back into the pax game again! One could wish. However, if it were me, I would do: BOI-IDA/PIH/LWS/PSC PDX-ALW/PSC/LWS/YKM a
61 Alias1024: I remember it quite well, as I was living in PDX at the time. I even remember the cartoon that appeared in the newspaper with a Horizon Dash 8 carryi
62 9252fly: Anyone know if QX ever considered the DH3 when it was in production? Time Air just north of the border was one of the launch customers for the variant
63 SuperDash: Yes, the -300 was considered. Unfortunately while the plane is a great size, it is amazingly underpowered. It would have been a great Seattle-Portlan
64 9252fly: GEG-PDX couldn't be any longer than what Jazz uses them on today out of YVR with full passenger/bag/cargo loads. Routes that come to mind are YVR-YXT
65 SuperDash: You can believe me or not. I am the one that did the study. I think that Canadian and US regulations on weight and balance may be different. Jazz ind
66 9252fly: That's a good answer! Yes,there are occasional payload hits.
67 Alias1024: 9 times out of 10 the restrictions on the -200 were due to max landing weight. Was this the problem with the -300 too, or were there takeoff performa
68 SuperDash: There is 2,000lbs of difference on the -200 but only 1000lbs on the -300. You're right in that the aircraft (Q200) didn't burn enough fuel on a short
69 9252fly: If you ever get nostalgic for the F-28,take a trip to YXE. There may still be as many as 20 of them parked beside one of the hangars. Meet a couple g
70 93Sierra: Why end the LAX-PRC/FLG service right when school is ramping up? With both Riddle and NAU that has to be worth trying to squeeze another month out if
71 hatbutton: People are still getting pilot licenses???
72 flyboy80: Everyone at QX would love to see the Ejet, but it just "ain't gonna happen."
73 KWBL: Now that IDA is on the chopping block, Horizon is well on its way to no longer being "the wings of the great northwest". They have dropped service to
74 LAXintl: They are indeed on the way out. OO's once 76 strong fleet is down to 51 today, with 42 planned by this winter and 28 by end of 2011. Skywest itself h
75 F9Animal: The 120 is and always will have a place in my heart. I love that airplane! Very sad to see it go. I too was shocked to see QX drop the 200's complete
76 LAXintl: Yes well they were versatile planes that I have enjoyed them as well, however from OO statements their economics have been under pressure and have ha
77 413X3: it's amazing how spoiled everyone is these days
78 ASFlyer: I remember when the RJ's were first introduced. It was like they were the second coming of christ. Airline employees thought they were the coolest th
79 wedgetail737: I kind of wished that QX held on to those Dornier 328's. Those were pretty sweet. Although, I did hear that they were quite the problem children and
80 mtnwest1979: [quote=F9Animal,reply=75]BFI to IDA would be interesting. Well they certainly wouldn't fly them BFI-IDA for a variety of reasons. They would operate a
81 F9Animal: Hell yeah they were sweet. I remember flying into SEA in the late 90's, and saw a few of them getting ready to go. I remember how sexy those props lo
82 COERJ145: Cause most ERAU or NAU students drive if they come from the west coast? I only know of ERAU students using QX from LAX and ZK from ONT/DEN only durin
83 AVLAirlineFreq: Is there just too much leakage to PHX in both of these markets for anyone other than US (for FLG) and Great Lakes (for PRC) to make them work? I know
84 ridgid727: The low fares out of PHX make anything in PRC or FLG very difficult for anyone to maintain profitably without a susidy, whether it be by government o
85 mtnwest1979: [quote=ridgid727,reply=84] and the Express Bus comapnies offering 7 or 8 departures a day to BOI. Well, there's only one, Salt Lake Express, that offe
86 Tomassjc: BOI-SJC actually does pretty well....
87 wedgetail737: If I remember right, QX began SJC-BOI using the F-28-1000. It ran the BOI-SJC-OAK-BOI route. I remember seeing it at OAK and seeing a group of Japane
88 SuperDash: Actually started as BOI-OAK. Then SJC was added and the loop schedule was also introduced before OAK was abandoned. And yes, it indeed was the F-28-1