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AA 777 Loses Door At DFW  
User currently offlineDeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1449 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33355 times:

I didn't see this posted. Someone is going to be in trouble!

http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_...merican-777-loses-door-at-dfw.html

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1125 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33342 times:

If the article is accurate and the plane rolled back 200 ft (I think its a typo and it rolled back 20 ft) it could have been much worse than losing a door.


Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3190 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 33118 times:

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 1):
(I think its a typo and it rolled back 20 ft) it could have been much worse than losing a door.



Agreed, 200 ft would put you right out in the middle of an alleyway or taxiway one would guess. One would have to assume that parking brake was not set and ground crew was not present as it did not damage any ground equipment starting to service the aircraft. I would have to think the guys in the front office would notice 200 ft of movement. I suppose a brake failure or hydraulic line failure could have drained the accumulators. Looking like a procedural error.

Okie


User currently offlineaogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32937 times:

I could see how this could be 200' instead of 20'. I witnessed a CO 757 roll backwards pretty far, and I thought we weren't going to be able to stop it. Plane diverted into BUF and they parked it on a hard stand. I was sitting in truck watching as the aircraft blocked and captain set parking brake. As the ground handlers went to the stair truck to grab the chocks, the captain released the parking brake thinking that chocks were already in. I saw him climb out of the seat just as the plane started to roll. I *assumed* that the ground handlers would toss the chocks in, but they were kinda confused. I realized that if it got going too fast, it'd roll right over the chocks, so I jumped out of the truck, ran to grab a big set of chocks and yelled at the guys to throw em behind the wheels without getting too close. Just as we tossed big chocks behind the mains, the crew must've realized that the scenery in the windows was changing and slammed on the brakes. I still wonder what all of the pax thought, because that bird stopped on the proverbial dime.

User currently offlineAirportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32865 times:

that first picture is rather interesting...

777 to gate "uh, yeah...we ahh...want our door back?...kthxbai"            



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlinequiet1 From Thailand, joined Apr 2010, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32618 times:

Reminiscent of an incident in TPE a few years ago. A NGO-bound UA 777 had its door ripped of, and the airplane was stranded in TPE for almost a week.

In that case, IIRC, the CS agents had done an ambitious boarding process and closed the boarding doors 15 minutes ahead of scheduled departure time. Ramp and pilots got the okay for pushback. Then two passengers who had been in the terminal shopping showed up, so a CS rep ran them down the jetway and re-positioned the jetway and opened the door without calling anybody. Just as the door was latched open, the plane pushed back, and riiiip! Off came the door.


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3015 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32445 times:

Ouch!

That doesn't look like it's going to be fun to fix. Did the flight continue on a spare plane, or was it canceled?


User currently offlineflybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32138 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 6):
That doesn't look like it's going to be fun to fix. Did the flight continue on a spare plane, or was it canceled?

Sounds like the flight just arrived from overseas since the article says that passengers were deplaning.

Thank goodness no one got hurt because of some AA idiot's incompetence. Anyone who falls from that height no doubt would have been killed.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15838 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32014 times:

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 3):
I could see how this could be 200' instead of 20'. I witnessed a CO 757 roll backwards pretty far, and I thought we weren't going to be able to stop it.

I also recall something similar happening to a NW A319 a few years ago. It would have hit some parked freighters if it wasn't stopped by some light poles first. I want to say it happened at OAK.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3015 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32000 times:

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 7):
Sounds like the flight just arrived from overseas since the article says that passengers were deplaning.

Sorry meant to say "the following flight"... I assume since it's DFW the plane was meant to be turned around and flown out to the next destination immediately.


User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 31866 times:

I saw that more times.... JK A320 in CPH I think, photo is in database, B777 in TPE, and some more......
IB B747 in MAD hit by gate making a hole on the side of the door.... many stupid incidents.....

But my favourite is Saudia B744 left with no parking brake and it rolled to a draining canal, It ended with the nose and I really don´t know what happened with that plane......


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20361 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 31821 times:

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 3):
I could see how this could be 200' instead of 20'. I witnessed a CO 757 roll backwards pretty far, and I thought we weren't going to be able to stop it. Plane diverted into BUF and they parked it on a hard stand. I was sitting in truck watching as the aircraft blocked and captain set parking brake. As the ground handlers went to the stair truck to grab the chocks, the captain released the parking brake thinking that chocks were already in. I saw him climb out of the seat just as the plane started to roll. I *assumed* that the ground handlers would toss the chocks in, but they were kinda confused. I realized that if it got going too fast, it'd roll right over the chocks, so I jumped out of the truck, ran to grab a big set of chocks and yelled at the guys to throw em behind the wheels without getting too close. Just as we tossed big chocks behind the mains, the crew must've realized that the scenery in the windows was changing and slammed on the brakes. I still wonder what all of the pax thought, because that bird stopped on the proverbial dime.

It amazes me it didn't sit down. I thought that if you tried to stop a plane rolling backward by slamming on the brakes, it could start to rotate over the mains.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 31673 times:

I love that in the second picture the FAs are taking pics of the damage on their cell phones.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 31285 times:

Obviouly I was not there, but it sounds like there were no chocks in place. IDK what AA procedures are, but at US we were not to position a loading bridge to an aircraft unless there were chocks in place, period.

MD


User currently offlinejayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 31059 times:

i love this comment there...

"if all airline employees were not working double shifts for half wages maybe they wouldnt be making fatigue errors, lucky it was just a door, corporate greed, and cheap tickets"

  

Ok i just realised....

The value 200 million dollar plane without a door. 0$. =).
But really, its pretty bad damage. How much does the fixing cost?



Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 30888 times:

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 14):
The value 200 million dollar plane without a door. 0$. =).
But really, its pretty bad damage. How much does the fixing cost?

What is the cost of a roll of Duct tape? An engineer to fix the plane?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 30847 times:

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 14):
But really, its pretty bad damage. How much does the fixing cost?

at least 2 million. Door repairs cost big bucks.


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 30564 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 10):
IB B747 in MAD hit by gate making a hole on the side of the door

In this case it was the other way around. It was the crew who crashed the B747-300 against the jetway intentionally to help it stop and to avoid hitting the terminal building after the brakes failed to respond. They were returning to the gate just after pushback due to a tech problem that was classified as "no go" in the MEL.

When atc asked them if they wanted to be towed back in the captain said that they would just use the aircraft's own engine power to do so and when they tried to stop the aircraft the brake system didn't have enough pressure and it was impossible to stop the 747. Thank God it was moving at a very low speed and crashing against the jetway really helped. Of course, the jetway had to be replaced after being seriously damaged.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offline4tet From Spain, joined Sep 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 30204 times:

Just a question, are not supposed the ramps to be flat?

User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5740 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 29887 times:

Quoting 4tet (Reply 18):
Just a question, are not supposed the ramps to be flat?

Absolutely not. Flat ramps = water accumulation. All modern ramps, taxiways, and runways are "crowned" to allow water to runoff into drainage areas.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 29018 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
I also recall something similar happening to a NW A319 a few years ago. It would have hit some parked freighters if it wasn't stopped by some light poles first. I want to say it happened at OAK.

you may be right, but IIRC, it was in LAS. They remoted the A/C, and forgot to both chock it and set the brakes. Oops...

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 13):
Obviouly I was not there, but it sounds like there were no chocks in place. IDK what AA procedures are, but at US we were not to position a loading bridge to an aircraft unless there were chocks in place, period.

On another board, AA employees are mentioning that it is an autodock gate, and also that the ramp crew assigned to the flight hadn't started their shifts yet.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 837 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27628 times:

http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_...e-on-777-door-incident-at-dfw.html

Quote:
I heard back from American Airlines spokesman Tim Wagner about the Boeing 777 door being ripped off at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport on Tuesday.

"We're still reviewing this incident, so we have not reached any conclusions at this point," Wagner said. "We do not know if the brakes were set (and did not work properly) or if they were not set. That will be determined in the investigation. It is correct that the wheels were not chocked."

Wagner said the flight was arriving from Sao Paulo, Brazil and that the 777 is currently out of service but could be flying as early as tomorrow. No passengers were hurt in the incident.


User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27230 times:

Er, that looks bad.  

Poor 777, but lucky crew / pax......



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6372 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 25980 times:

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 7):

Sounds like the flight just arrived from overseas

I imagine that at that time (6:20am) it must have been coming in from South America...probably the GRU or EZE flight.


User currently offlineimag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 24765 times:

doors come off that easily?!?

25 readytotaxi : So once the new door is fitted and everyone has had their legs smacked, does the aircraft go back into service straight away or do they have to take h
26 sw733 : Open, yes; closed, no. Open...they're really only held on at one fixed point (as you can see in the second picture of where the door should be). Gran
27 Planenutok : Pressure test can be completed on the ground no need to take it up to altitude. It looks as if there is damage forward of the door where it contacted
28 Post contains images sw733 : Ah, thank you. I don't deal with pressurization systems so I honestly didn't know that. Guess I still need my PhD in Aero Engineering
29 MGASJO : That is correct. Flt 962/14 from GRU. A/C is 7AD N773AN. Out of service of course
30 Post contains links and images keesje : The damage to the 777 seems limitted, replace some parts and look at the scatch how deep it is. I wonder what the crew is doing, maybe an safety instr
31 sw733 : Facebook mobile upload.
32 vhtje : From the photo, the door in quesiton seems to have been on the right side of the aircraft. Is that normal? Or am I missing sometthing here? I thought
33 Airportugal310 : Its taken on the left side.... the AN in American gives that away. The flight deck would be to the left in the picture, not the right
34 vhtje : You mean it's a rear door? That might make sense...
35 Post contains links CB97 : It is the L2 door, just forward of the wing. http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...lines/Boeing-777-223-ER/1721562/M/
36 DTW757 : It was door 2L, the second door on the left hand side.
37 vhtje : Terrific, got it, thank you. Will climb back into my box now....
38 Post contains images UA772IAD : It was a good thing they didn't. Those chocks won't stop an already moving plane, but will instead snap (violenly if the aircraft is moving fast enou
39 A388 : So as per the articles the blame can either be on the ground handlers not putting chocks right away or a braking error on the pilot's part (lack of pu
40 varigb707 : I wanna know is : who'll pay for the damages?????
41 Post contains links jetboy2 : Something like this happened to a Spanair bird a couple years ago. That incident, though, was the fault of the jetbridge... http://www.airliners.net/p
42 Tristarsteve : I wonder why some airlines are so insistent about releasing the parking brakes on the ramp. BA does not. The Flight Deck sets the parking brake, and
43 sw733 : The airline. Perhaps insurance.
44 RoseFlyer : Definitely the airline. It will be paid for just like every other mechanical problem that cannot be attributed directly to a supplier or damage by a
45 ua777222 : Unless a malfunction on the aircraft that can be traced back to Boeing, AA was in control of the aircraft at all times. Those are wires from the door
46 Airportugal310 : The real pain in the arse is if the aircraft rolls back onto the chocks, however so gently. Try removing them from a loaded airplane before pushback!
47 ua777222 : Is there a reg that requires the chocks be pulled before attaching a tug? If not, why not just pull the aircraft forward another inch or two to pull
48 Airportugal310 : Good question, its been 3 years so I am not sure either. If memory serves, and believe me it doesn't well as of late, we would pull the chocks just b
49 web500sjc : does AA have extra 777 doors just laying around the shop, and does a 777 door cost 200k or is that just the work. too me it looks like there needs to
50 Maverick623 : Chocks here are made of rubber.
51 ua777222 : Does the FAA need to certify the new door since its a safety devise or does it just fall under the responsibility of an FAA approved mx?
52 Post contains images AirframeAS : I am very surprised that the door is still standing on the jetway. Amazing! I thought the 777 doors were the rolling up door type like what you find o
53 ATA L1011 : That's the 767 only of the big boeings!
54 ZANL188 : This happens often enough that Boeing designed in a weak spot to prevent damage to the airframe.
55 Post contains images skygirl1990 : Yeah, it's called a "no doors flight". Very popular in the summer... okay, okay in a C172, but hey you never know, it could be the next big thing...
56 Post contains links Planenutok : http://startelegram.typepad.com/.a/6...0d8341c2cc953ef0133f14939f4970b-pi In looking at the pic above there appears to be damage under the first windo
57 PWMRamper : Yeah, if we get a chock stuck due to the aircraft shifting, we'll hook up the Pushback and pull/push the plane an inch or two, have them reset the br
58 flylku : Are doors engineered to break away? I can't fathom why they would be but I'm surprised the jet bridge won this battle.
59 Post contains images Antoniemey : No, there is no such reg... in fact, you have to attach the tug before pulling chocks or your plane will roll away. Pulling the aircraft forward a fe
60 DLD9S : While it looks like a dent, I think that is the reflection of the engine below the red stripe.
61 alphaomega : My thoughts were similar to this - a few months ago in ORD, UA ripped the door off a 747 because they pushed back the aircraft with the jetbridge sti
62 copter808 : Why do we have to assume that whenever an incident occurs it's because of someone's incompetence? Even the most competent employees can overlook thin
63 KingFriday013 : All of the doors on the 777 open in the forward direction, so if the door opens to the left, then it's the left side of the aircraft. Nope, that's on
64 homsar : Larry, where's the forklift? Anyway, the article got me curious. What's this docking guidance system (how does it work, how common is it, etc.)?
65 Antoniemey : Assuming it's a similar system to what I've seen/heard of, it's basically a series of lights that tells the pilot when he's getting close to position
66 zainmax : Whats the outcome of initial investigation ? Were the chokes placed ?
67 HAWK21M : These things should never occur......Why can't some folks follow the rules.....Place the chocks & then release the brakes on Confirmation that all
68 NW747400 : According the the equation F=ma, the force would have been quite large even with a small amount of acceleration because of the plane's massive weight
69 Post contains links Viscount724 : Many earier types also had doors that opened inward (either upward or sideways), including the Caravelle, L-188 Electra, Constellation, Britannia, Tr
70 KingFriday013 : On that note, they have that type of door (opens sideways) on the Fokker F27 as well. It's tougher to lift up a heavy door like that than it is to pu
71 DocLightning : Probably designed to. It's a lot cheaper to re-attach/replace a door than to have it rip off a bit of the fuselage skin or destroy the jet ramp. In a
72 flylku : Funny, I was thinking the same thing. See, High School Physics does come in handy!
73 av757 : This is not the first time this occurs to door L1, It happened in BOG to the Boeing Company 777 demo plane on its way down to SCL for the FIDAE air sh
74 474218 : No heavy lifting required. The doors on the L-1011 (and I assume the DC-10/MD-11 and 767) were counter balanced. The motor did not actually drive the
75 Post contains images FX772LRF : The L1 and I think probably R1 door on the 767 are motorized, no lifting by crew required. All others are counterbalanced, as far as I know - but hav
76 BMI727 : I believe that is one of the things that varies by airline.
77 Post contains links and images FX772LRF : I believe you are correct, sir. Boeing 767 Doors (by Phen Nov 16 2009 in Tech Ops) 767 Door Question (by AT Dec 1 2006 in Tech Ops) Some interesting
78 movingtin : That wont even cover the lost revenue. Just the door replacement is easily a Million, not counting lost revenue. Rules are different for each airline
79 mikey72 : I remember a few years ago I was working on a 777. (crew) We got on board the aircraft and one of my colleagues leaned on 4L to get somethiing out of
80 rwy04lga : We do... ....every day of the year. When the brakes are released, the plane rolls slightly and tightly abuts the chock.
81 Skydrol : Have to admit I'm surprised by the apparent lack of damage to the door frame and fuselage. Even the door looks more or less unscathed. Regardless, thi
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