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9W - UA Announce An Extensive Code Share Agreement  
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2977 posts, RR: 24
Posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10518 times:

* UA will code share on DEL - HKG, BOM - HKG, BOM - LHR and many Indian domestic destinations

* 9W will code share on HKG - ORD, LHR - ORD, HKG - SFO, LHR - DEN, LHR - LAX, LHR - SFO, LHR - IAD, and many other US domestic routes.

http://www.indiainfoline.com/Markets...ct-with-United-Airlines/4862717013


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10375 times:

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
DEN, LHR

I wonder if this will be enough to keep this service yearly by UA?


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10066 times:

A couple of comments:

First, I wonder how long it will take now for JetBlue to unwind its (minimal) relationship with AA.

Second, for the sake of Delta and SkyTeam, let's hope this doesn't portend Jet making it official and joining Star. Having Air India and Jet in Star - which still does, admittedly, seem a bit strange to me - would not only dramatically bolster that alliance in India, but also, together with Kingfisher going to oneworld, lock up the country's biggest carriers in competing alliances.


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9975 times:

I swear, Jet is turning into AS. They cooperate with everyone.

No Indian carrier would be quite a blow to SkyTeam. Of course, probably not an insurmountable one. It would certainly put pressure on DL and especially AF/KL to step up their operations in India.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9786 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 1):
I wonder if this will be enough to keep this service yearly by UA?

I would certainly hope so, although I think it would take more than this code share to get someone at UA to decide that. On the occasions I have flown this flight, it seems to be packed to the gills, especially up front. What yields are like I dont know but thats for another thread.

Anyway, you gotta think that Skyteam need to step up to the plate and get an Indiam carrier onboard soon or they will miss the party although I cannot see the merit of having two carriers in Star, although I would prefer Jet ove Air India, just my preference.


User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9610 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
Having Air India and Jet in Star - which still does, admittedly, seem a bit strange to me
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 4):
I cannot see the merit of having two carriers in Star

How many US carriers are in STAR again, even after all the mergers will be completed?

India is far more populated than the USA; in fact India is known to be the greatest democracy on earth, so having 2 Indian airlines in STAR isn't so weird as it seems, especially knowing what a booming economy and aviation market they have.

Skyteam NOT having a single partner in India however, is disastrous indeed and will be a serious handicap for them in a couple of years.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9610 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
Second, for the sake of Delta and SkyTeam, let's hope this doesn't portend Jet making it official and joining Star. Having Air India and Jet in Star - which still does, admittedly, seem a bit strange to me - would not only dramatically bolster that alliance in India, but also, together with Kingfisher going to oneworld, lock up the country's biggest carriers in competing alliances.
Quoting Delimit (Reply 3):
No Indian carrier would be quite a blow to SkyTeam. Of course, probably not an insurmountable one. It would certainly put pressure on DL and especially AF/KL to step up their operations in India.

There are a few other players left such as IndiGo Air, which is quite a large carrier within India. That being said, its an LCC so I dont' know how that would fit in. Regardless, with AA working more with B6, anything is possible.   

http://www.indigoairlines.com/skylights/cgi-bin/skylights.cgi

Quoting Delimit (Reply 3):
I swear, Jet is turning into AS. They cooperate with everyone.

IIRC, AA and 9W are ending codeshare out of DEL.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9436 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
IIRC, AA and 9W are ending codeshare out of DEL.

Simply because IT joins OW soon and IT will get all OW traffic onto them code-share or not; even though BA, AA and CX have all indicated that they want to code-share with IT.



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User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9395 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 7):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
IIRC, AA and 9W are ending codeshare out of DEL.

Simply because IT joins OW soon and IT will get all OW traffic onto them code-share or not; even though BA, AA and CX have all indicated that they want to code-share with IT.

Right, but my comment was based on this.. 
Quoting Delimit (Reply 3):
I swear, Jet is turning into AS. They cooperate with everyone.

9W isn't turning into AS as they would still keep their AA codeshare...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9337 times:

Quoting slz396 (Reply 5):
How many US carriers are in STAR again, even after all the mergers will be completed?

Three, soon to be two.

Quoting slz396 (Reply 5):
India is far more populated than the USA

But has an air travel market that is smaller, and not nearly as developed, as America's.

Quoting slz396 (Reply 5):
in fact India is known to be the greatest democracy on earth, so having 2 Indian airlines in STAR isn't so weird as it seems, especially knowing what a booming economy and aviation market they have.

India's is the world's "largest" democracy - although a rather chaotic, bureacratic, one - but "greatest" is highly subjective.

And yes, I agree with you, India's economy is on the rise as is the country generally - no debate about that. But it is still nowhere near the level of the U.S. air travel market, and won't be for quite some time given the very serious challenges the Indian aviation system has to tackle first - starting with chronic infrastructure issues.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
There are a few other players left such as IndiGo Air, which is quite a large carrier within India.

True, although for a market like India, I would view that as a suboptimal solution compared to Jet.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3876 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9316 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting slz396 (Reply 5):
How many US carriers are in STAR again, even after all the mergers will be completed?

Right now, three.

Two, after the UA/US merger is complete.

One, if US leaves. I don't think US needs to be in Star anymore, they should consider switching to One World.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
IIRC, AA and 9W are ending codeshare out of DEL.

Really? Will AA and 9W continue to codeshare on TATL flights than? If AA and 9W break up and 9W goes to Star, this will make BRU a real Star hub. This would be a serious threat to American Airlines in BRU.

Imagine five pupils in a school: AA, UA, CO, SN and 9W.
UA, CO, SN and 9W are friends and they don't like AA.
Poor AA has no friend at that school.
UA and CO were never friends of AA but SN and 9W used to be.
UA, CO, SN and 9W get together to beat up AA.
UA, CO, SN and 9W punch AA.
So what will happen next?
UA, CO, SN and 9W will be punished and severely reprimanded by the principal.
AA will be taken to the infirmary and will be just fine.
AA is polite, very well raised, and has good manners.
And what next?
AA will start self defense class.

This is exactly the image of the future at BRU airport.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9219 times:

IIRC, Jet has indicated that they would like to get larger before they join an alliance, as larger size yields higher share on alliance issued tickets. Can someone elaborate? Thanks.

User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
But has an air travel market that is smaller, and not nearly as developed, as America's.

Oh, I know, but taking both AI as well as 9W into STAR are strategic decisions, not taken with the eye on today's situation, but rather tomorrow's.

In a way, one could say India is lagging on China by a decade or so and we still remember the fight to get the best chinese airlines as alliance partners a couple of years ago, do we? I suppose the same is about the happen in India too.... or it has already happened unnoticed, with Skyteam missing out!

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
India's is the world's "largest" democracy - although a rather chaotic, bureacratic, one - but "greatest" is highly subjective.

Yeah okay. I know greatest and biggest aren't exactly the same.

Yet let's stay clear of who's the greatest democracy, shall we? Those who constantly feel the need to convince themselves they are, often aren't.

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
India's economy is on the rise as is the country generally - no debate about that. But it is still nowhere near the level of the U.S. air travel market, and won't be for quite some time given the very serious challenges the Indian aviation system has to tackle first - starting with chronic infrastructure issues.

I think that is the main difference between the PRC and China. Both have a lot of potential, but will India put it to as good use as China does? As you correctly point out, the levels of big instrastructure works are not keeping pace with those in china, which is a bad sign indeed...


User currently offline_AA_777_MAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8993 times:

Does this mean that 9W is not planning ORD service with their own equipment? I remember reading that they were interested in starting ORD service.

User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8920 times:

BOM/DEL-HKG-SFO/ORD codesshare works well with about 2-4 hour layover at HKG. AI's DEL-HKG flight do not connect well to UA's HKG-USA flights. Go figure.

With the announced codeshares, both airlines are now able to offer BOM/DEL-SFO/LAX/DEN/ORD/IAD(10 new one stop routes). I would think few more codeshares from HKG and LHR will be announced once CO merges with UA. LHR-IAH comes to mind.


User currently offlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8856 times:

Do you think this codeshare is a long term partnership? I personally don't think that 9W would want AI to join the Star Alliance if it does.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2977 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8845 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 14):
AI's DEL-HKG flight do not connect well to UA's HKG-USA flights. Go figure.

AI's flights out of DEL to HKG connect in one direction .... and in the rrturn they do not. But that just requires slight tweaking of the departure time from HKG to DEL .... it's not that much it will be done soon.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4076 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8645 times:
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Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
This is exactly the image of the future at BRU airport.

And yet, 9W and UA didn't choose to code-share on each other's flights out of BRU, even though a ORD/IAD-BRU-BOM/DEL/MAA makes about as much sense as any other connection their code-share agreement opens.

Quoting slz396 (Reply 12):
As you correctly point out, the levels of big instrastructure works are not keeping pace with those in china, which is a bad sign indeed...

But unlike China, India's growth is far more domestic-driven. When the Wal-Marts of the worlds find a new China (Vietnam, Nigeria, Bangladesh come to mind), much of what has financed China's development so far will be gone, without a domestic market to pick up the slack. The Chinese government is aware of it and is trying to move away from a least-cost manufacturing base to a high-end one for that very reason, but it also needs to stimulate domestic demand, and that it is so far unwilling to do. Long-term, I bet on India. The pace of development is much slower, but I believe it has the legs to sustain itself for far longer than China's.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8533 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
There are a few other players left such as IndiGo Air, which is quite a large carrier within India.

True, although for a market like India, I would view that as a suboptimal solution compared to Jet.

True, but the goal is to get as much as the Indian market/sub-Indian continent to a certain extent. IndigoAir is expanding as well...

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
IIRC, AA and 9W are ending codeshare out of DEL.

Really? Will AA and 9W continue to codeshare on TATL flights than? If AA and 9W break up and 9W goes to Star, this will make BRU a real Star hub. This would be a serious threat to American Airlines in BRU.

I'm not so sure about the TATL flights. If 9W does join, I don't expect the codeshare to last too long...

Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Reply 13):
Does this mean that 9W is not planning ORD service with their own equipment? I remember reading that they were interested in starting ORD service.

DEL-ORD would be competing with AA and probably both would do bad.....BOM-ORD might work-but its a long flight...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8446 times:

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 15):
I personally don't think that 9W would want AI to join the Star Alliance if it does.

Both airlines add value to the alliance. AI will continue to shrink, in market share, relative to other Indian carriers.

AI has the equipment to offer many DEL/BOM-USA non-stop flights, and most of the Star hubs have large Indian population.


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8184 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 19):
Both airlines add value to the alliance. AI will continue to shrink, in market share, relative to other Indian carriers.

AI has the equipment to offer many DEL/BOM-USA non-stop flights, and most of the Star hubs have large Indian population.

I keep seeing this statement, or similar. While both airlines add value to Star, how does Star add value to both airlines at the same time at the same level it would if only one was a member? It only has a certain amount of bodies to route into India. With one member it would route them all to that airline. With two it has half as many to offer.


User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 20):
While both airlines add value to Star, how does Star add value to both airlines at the same time at the same level it would if only one was a member? It only has a certain amount of bodies to route into India. With one member it would route them all to that airline. With two it has half as many to offer.

Well, isn't this the same for the US airlines in STAR or the many European airlines?

Going by your logic, any alliance should only have 1 member airline in each (sub)continent then.

The advantage of having more than one airline is offering more flexibility, more choice and often also more regional destinations, because not many airlines overlap perfectly...


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7629 times:

Quoting slz396 (Reply 21):

The advantage of having more than one airline is offering more flexibility, more choice and often also more regional destinations, because not many airlines overlap perfectly...

Only if alliance members cooperate....notice how neither SQ nor TG cooperate with each other....even on routes which they don't necessarily overlap in.

[Edited 2010-06-17 11:14:07]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7629 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
Having Air India and Jet in Star - which still does, admittedly, seem a bit strange to me - would not only dramatically bolster that alliance in India, but also, together with Kingfisher going to oneworld, lock up the country's biggest carriers in competing alliances.

Do you consider it normal for MU to be in Skyteam together with CZ then, leaving no mainland carrier in OneWorld?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7557 times:

Quoting slz396 (Reply 21):
Well, isn't this the same for the US airlines in STAR or the many European airlines?

Going by your logic, any alliance should only have 1 member airline in each (sub)continent then.

The advantage of having more than one airline is offering more flexibility, more choice and often also more regional destinations, because not many airlines overlap perfectly...

If we were following my logic Star would have bid US adios ages ago, but that has less to do with America and more to do with US.   That said, US is strong where UA is weak. What can 9w offer you that AI can't? Or vice verse? Please be specific.

Quote:
Do you consider it normal for MU to be in Skyteam together with CZ then, leaving no mainland carrier in OneWorld?

I think many of us were surprised by that. Of course, MU and CZ have been moving closer and closer. Perhaps one day they will be one.


[Edited 2010-06-17 11:16:15]

[Edited 2010-06-17 11:17:20]

25 LAXDESI : 9W is larger than AI, and continues to gain market share. AI is still making large losses, and steadily losing market share. AI has one of the lowest
26 tharanga : I think Star could also hedge its bets that AI never manages to finally join Star. They can't say that out loud, but does AI really inspire confidence
27 Delimit : RIght, but AI is, or will be, in Star, whereas Jet hasn't announced an alliance (not that this latest bit of news doesn't send some hints). What does
28 LAXDESI : Jet is a much safer long term bet than AI. Star is planning ahead to a time when AI will be an insignificant player.
29 kiwiandrew : It will be interesting to see whether the 9W/UA codeshare will extend to LHR-EWR/IAH if/when the UA/CO merger goes through . The current UA does not s
30 MaverickM11 : Bigger than AI+IC? 9W is pretty stagnant if not shrinking in terms of US market share
31 huaiwei : And you presume the Indian government will do nothing to save AI? Do be aware that the airlines you are discussing are operating in an environment gr
32 LAXDESI : It will depend on the nature of the next central govt. It may carry out one more bail out in the next five years, but is unlikely to approve/back new
33 Bralo20 : AA is known to make contracts with a lot of restrictions for the other party... I'm pretty sure that 9W can't codeshare with UA out of BRU even if th
34 LAXDESI : Interesting. So many more codeshare possibilities exist once 9W joins Star and CO merges with UA. I wonder if BLR-BRU/LHR or BLR-KHG by 9W in the nea
35 Delimit : While this does seem to point in that direction, shouldn't we wait for an announcement before we make definite statements? The last remark I saw from
36 LAXDESI : Just exploring the possibilities if 9W were to join Star. I wonder if UA would reconsider LAX-HKG, or is it more likely that 9W would fly to LAX via
37 UAL747 : UA has now added an ORD-BRU flight. Between movies on my last flight with them, they had constant commercials about it. Is IAD-BRU still operated by t
38 Post contains images OA412 : I'm sure you meant to say that Jet Airways is going to unwind its relationship with AA, not JetBlue.
39 commavia : Sorry - yes, Jet Airways, not JetBlue.
40 American 767 : Not anymore. Both ORD-BRU and IAD-BRU are 767's. Not really a main hub, but...a focus city. A little bit like what Pan Am used to be in London and Fr
41 UAL747 : When I was there last year, I could have sworn that they were the largest carrier (as far as movement of pax) in and out of BRU. Not that it makes it
42 slz396 : The largest carrier at BRU is SN, followed by LH. 9W is the biggest long haul operator at BRU in terms of flights: 6 daily A330-200 very closely foll
43 Delimit : If I recall, 9W operates a scissor hub in BRU. Flights arrive from North America in a bank, people change planes depending on their destination and th
44 LAXDESI : Is there room at BRU, at present, for 9W to expand if it wanted to?
45 vin2basketball : From a network perspective, the codeshare agreement makes perfect sense. The main problem with Jet Airways in the past, is that they really had no acc
46 ojas : 9W's failure on BOM - PVG - SFO was due to the high handed behavior of the Chinese authorities and their inflexibility at giving the required slots .
47 LAXDESI : Good point. I suppose that leaves HKG as the best option to connect India-LAX/SFO with codeshare on UA HKG-SFO flight. 9W could then consider BLR-HKG
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