ExitRowAisle From United States of America, joined May 2000, 262 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5067 times:
I remember seeing somewhere a Braniff presentation from 1978 or 1979 showing their pre-1978 route map followed by a series of maps showing all their proposed new routes. The presentation was to show their expansion plans under deregulation. If I recall correctly, in addition to the routes they actually started (Hong Kong, Paris, Seoul, etc), they were looking to serve a HUGE number of other international cities, including Dubai, Bahrain, Delhi, Shanghai, Peking (Beijing), Tokyo, I think Sydney, and a bunch of additional small cities in Mexico and South America. The idea was to establish around-the-world service. The cities and routes looked very random, I don't know how they would have ever worked (the routes were probably dormant for a reason!), but it was very interesting. My question is, does anyone know where to find an actual list or map of all the routes Braniff applied for, not just the ones they actually got going?
globalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 800 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5033 times:
Check out www.braniffpages.com It has a wealth of information of this once amazing airline! What a history!
Cheers,
Liam
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
aviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1344 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4934 times:
I remember when Braniff operated a short-lived European hub out of BOS. That would have been 1980-1981 if I remember right. There were nightly 747s and DC-8s out of the eastern corner of Terminal E
Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Brussels, I believe, in additions to Braniff's 727 domestic feed at BOS.
Terminal E (still known as the Volpe terminal at the time) was a lot more colorful in those days.... literally.
PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1855 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4822 times:
Quoting globalflyer (Reply 1): this once amazing airline! What a history!
It was amazing okay. In 1978-79, the airline had another profitable year, it's last. That expansion caused the airline to over extend itself, debt wise, adding cities and flights that had no natural feed, i.e., STL to CLE, and international routes galore. Imaging flying 747's with 30 people on them trans Pacific. Then the Allatolyah Kouhemeni took over Iran and oil prices doubled, and Braniff was buying fuel on the spot market, so their fuel cost them more than other carriers. In three years, they were bankrupt and shut down. Sad would be a better word to use. One heck of a lot of people's lives were altered negatively. Harding Lawrence was a "visionary", and believed that deregulation was a mistake, and would cause the failure of many carriers, and only the large ones would survive, but he was only half correct. He then believed the government would re-regulate and that Braniff would be sitting at the top of the heap. Oh well.
At the time, used aircraft were scarce. Pan Am grossly overpaid for National because at the time, their aircraft on the used market, (DC-10's and 727's) were bringing record prices. Lawrence leased 747's from whoever had them, and filled in with aircraft such as Delta and National DC-8-51's that he leased from FB Ayer.
A few years later, the airline could have filed Chapter 11, obtained DIP financing, and reorganized, but in May of 1982, no major airline had filed Chapter 11 and continued to fly. We were in a bad recession with high unemployment. Reagan had the same mid term worries that Obama has now. And Banks had not been deregulated so there were no interstate banks with money to burn, and no DIP financing available. So Howard Putnum made the call when he was running out of cash to bring the aircraft back to DFW and shut it down. On May 12, 1982, a stormy Thursday, that is exactly what happened.
Amazing, well maybe, but as I said, SAD, VERY SAD.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9151 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4479 times:
I think I remember hearing at the time that Braniff was waiting at the DOT's door on the day deregulation went into effect, with 68 new route applications in their hands.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4043 times:
This former BN employee remembers the happy fun days we had working together making a good airline great.
Dont forget the price of oil going up in late 1979 and interest rates at historic high levels in 1980 thru early 1982.
Toss in AA moving HQ to Dallas and theAA DFW buildup to compete out of Dallas with BN on a stronger level.
Add the problem of Braniffs always low load factor of around 55-65percent during this period.
Those load factor numbers worked during regulation but not when fuel cost and interest rates were at highest levels to date.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7340 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4033 times:
Quoting ExitRowAisle (Thread starter): remember seeing somewhere a Braniff presentation from 1978 or 1979 showing their pre-1978 route map followed by a series of maps showing all their proposed new routes. The presentation was to show their expansion plans under deregulation. If I recall correctly, in addition to the routes they actually started (Hong Kong, Paris, Seoul, etc), they were looking to serve a HUGE number of other international cities, including Dubai, Bahrain, Delhi, Shanghai, Peking (Beijing), Tokyo, I think Sydney, and a bunch of additional small cities in Mexico and South America. The idea was to establish around-the-world service. The cities and routes looked very random, I don't know how they would have ever worked (the routes were probably dormant for a reason!), but it was very interesting. My question is, does anyone know where to find an actual list or map of all the routes Braniff applied for, not just the ones they actually got going
Harding Lawrence was the CEO of Braniff at the time with his worldly ambitions. His wife was advertising guru Mary Wells Lawrence who came up with the, "End of teh Plain Plane" campaign. He had visions of flying 747SP's from Texas nonstop to Bahrain. His Asian adventure lost lots of $$$ because of no flights to Tokyo.
NWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 844 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2593 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 4): I think I remember hearing at the time that Braniff was waiting at the DOT's door on the day deregulation went into effect, with 68 new route applications in their hands.
Northwest Airlines had four applications.
Braniff blew up like a ballon flying empty planes in the middle of the night to keep the routes.
Then the implosion happened and there was no moer Braniff.
isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1804 times:
Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 7): Braniff blew up like a ballon flying empty planes in the middle of the night to keep the routes.
...and some of the baggage bins on the night planes with empty seats were filled full to capacity with express and mail,too.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1633 times:
Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 5): Toss in AA moving HQ to Dallas and theAA DFW buildup to compete out of Dallas with BN on a stronger level.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1533 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 4): I think I remember hearing at the time that Braniff was waiting at the DOT's door on the day deregulation went into effect, with 68 new route applications in their hands.
It was Harding Lawrence's opinion that deregulation wouldn't last long. He felt, that when deregulation ultimately ended, he wanted as many route authorities as possible in place.
A lot of a-netters on here are not from the pre-Deregulation era, and really don't understand the huge shackles that were placed on airlines of the time. Not just that they couldn't fly where and whenever they pleased, but ... they also couldn't stop a poorly performing route either. Whether that was good or bad, is an entirely different debate though.
While Harding Lawrence's gamble seems silly today, at the time it was at least a reasonable decision.
If you ever see John Nance's book, "Splash of Colors" it documents Braniff's history right to the end. While no longer in print, it is often in used book stores. Even though you know the ending, it reads like an exciting novel!
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9151 posts, RR: 14 Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1512 times:
Quoting longhauler (Reply 10): A lot of a-netters on here are not from the pre-Deregulation era, and really don't understand the huge shackles that were placed on airlines of the time. Not just that they couldn't fly where and whenever they pleased, but ... they also couldn't stop a poorly performing route either. Whether that was good or bad, is an entirely different debate though.
Just from someone that was around then, it always seemed to me that most route awards thru the CAB were political in nature. However, that didn't seem to change much with de-regulation, either.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
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