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SAS And AA Interested In Sabena  
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=722

Sabena declined comment on rumors that SAS and American Airlines are interested in taking a stake in the embattled carrier. “Matters of shareholding are not our responsibility but the shareholders',” a Sabena spokesperson responded. Currently, 50.5% of Sabena is held by the Belgian state and 49.5% by Swissair Group, which said last month it would not raise its shareholding to 85% as committed last year. The ministry of state holdings refused to comment, saying it “was awaiting Sabena’s business plan.”

---

this seems to be some premature rumours, however, i think it could prove to be quite interesting.
some people have rumoured the AA interest a couple of times and now it really doesn´t seem so far away anymore.
regarding SAS, the only thing comes to my mind is that SAS seems to have an awful lot of money to spend. SAS already owns or co-owns so many airlines in the northern part of europe, just bough braathens, and some rumours suggest it´s interested in Finnair (i think such a deal would be highly unlikely) and now this suggested interest in Sabena...

we´ll just have to wait and see what Swissair is up to. if they´re selling their stake or reducing it or whatsoever...

regards
daniel




If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

If SK bought SN, SN would join Star. I think competition problems would however very quickly arise from any deal between LH and SN, BM and SN and of course routes to CPH, ARN and OSL with SK/SN.

Interesting idea however, though I would imagine that AA remains a favourite.


User currently offlineZander From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 610 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

I think it's better if SAS buys Finnair instead of Sabena. It would be much easier to take over Finnair because of Finland's location and their alliance-membership. Sabena and Belgium is not the right market now when SAS has a very close cooperation with Lufthansa.
That's my ideas.


User currently offlineSndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

It the AA romour would be true, that would be great!
sndp


User currently offlineKRP From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1580 times:

Sorry to have correct the original poster - but the situation is the other way around:

SN is interested in AA or SK as buyers!



User currently offlineSndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

That makes a big difference of course! But still, there have been romours that AA would like to buy Sabena. So, that is still possible, no? We'll see what will happen!
sndp


User currently offlineAirnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2544 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

Isn't Sabena in alot of Debt??

Cheers
mikey


User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2753 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

I would say that SN is in a lot of trouble about money... They have none! I doubt that SAS would take a stake in SN. It would be more likely that LH would and that I can doubt even more. I have no idea about AA. I can't see SN as a good partner in the european market anymore. Nothing against SN but there time is over... But anyways: Good luck SN!

User currently offlineGOT From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 1912 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

SAS is mainly focused on the market in northeren Europe and I don't think that it includes Belgium. From what I've read in the newspaper the recent days, SAS is interested in Finnair, Icelandair, some carrier in the Baltic region and also the Polish carrier LOT.

GOT



Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2728 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

I have no idea what to think of a merger between SAS and Sabenaright now, but I can tell you that it has been studied very seriously by both the Belgian government and SAS in the past (1980s).

Under that plan Belgium's Sabena would create a new multinational holding together with the 3 SAS countries: Denmark, Sweden And Norway.
All planes would be repained and a single commercial holding established for sales.
There was even a name invented for it:
SASBENA.

I don't know why it failed back then, but who knows, maybe it's time for a second try?


User currently offlineHagi From Finland, joined Jun 1999, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1511 times:

About SAS buying Finnair...

As discussed in a dedicated thread - not likely.

First: the two are the only majors in the Nordic region and they are currently competing fiercely. If Finnair were to dissolve into SAS, that competition would cease. That would mean virtually NO competition in air traffic between the four Nordic countries. I don't have to tell you what the EU regulators would have to say to that, do I...? The Nordic area is _the_ region in this continent where air traffic is vital due to long distances both domestically (where dominance of respective national carriers is already at, or close to, 100%) and to the more central parts of the continent in general. Therefore, eliminating competition would hurt both businesses and individuals.

Second: The Finnish state has no interest whatsoever to let go of its majority share in the flag carrier. Have you checked how cheap airlines are today? The government couldn't cash in, but vital national interests in the field of transportation and, consequently, international competetiveness, _would_ be in jeopardy. What offer do you think would be generous enough for the parliament to allow the government to sell?

Third: The two companies are not very "compatible". Look at the fleet. Look at the company structure (Finnair still - at least for the time being - has a leisure divison with dedicated aircraft). The merger would be painful to say the least and would probably lead in both parties being hurt badly - not to mention Finnair likely being too big a bite for SAS to swallow. They now have three hubs on paper (one in reality) at SAS. Add a fourth during our present times of lean organisations, cost-cuts etc... what a mess you would get.

Four: The airlines are in different alliances.

Just my spare change...

- Hagi


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1509 times:

Sabena does need help, but I am not sure that it will come from AA or SAS; hopefully, Swissair will stick with Sabena and turn the loss making carrier around. So many airlines have been interested in Sabena in the past, at one point BA and KLM were going to jointly purchase the carrier, then the Air France alliance that ended up nowhere, its alliance with Delta that was terminated in favor of American, now Swissair, and maybe AA and/or SAS in the future. Its like a bad soap opera.

Sabena has a fleet of new Airbus planes, is developing its Brussels hub, has terminated its expensive and strange relationship with Citybird, and really has improved its service. Sabena should be able to make it, if its shareholders support it and give it some time to capitalize on the investments made. So many mistakes have been made. Can you imagine the "capital of Europe", Brussels, without a major airline?

Would AA develop BRU into a European hub? Would that work, AA and SN already code-share on many flites in and out of BRU. What benefit would SAS have from taking an interest in SN especially due to the close relationship between SAS and LH?



User currently offlineEconojetter From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 430 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1492 times:

Oneworld needs extra bulk in continental Europe to counter Star. There seems to have been a lot of discussion everywhere whether SR will or will not end up in Oneworld. Clearly BA will have an opinion to express in the matter. SR's strong intercontinental network may be major cause for concern to BA. Could it just be that AA believes that SN's path into Oneworld would be a much smoother one (less resistance from BA, among other things)? Not taking the opportunity to strike a deal with SN may present the risk of SN eventually ending up with the opposition (Star, Skyteam), now that consolidation is a buzzword around the industry?

By the way, which has better European coverage from its own hub: SN or SR?

Meanwhile, I see much less of a rationale for SK/SN in today's industry landscape. All of the recent acquisitions by SK point towards consolidation in Northern Europe (+ the Baltic region). LO, I have read, is profitable; so I can see some business sense in becoming a shareholder. SN, on the other hand, is in financial trouble. In the case of SK, buying into SN does not seem like a strategic necessity, and could in fact start to alarm LH.



User currently offlineBlink182 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 5483 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1478 times:

If AA were to buy stake in Sabena, things would not change as much as if SAS were to buy SN. AA already maintains an alliance with SR/SN and with AA buying SN, that would only bring SR and SN into Oneworld and SR/SN would still be allied with each other. Also Sabena would be "AA Europe" as someone on the forums said a few weeks ago. With SAS buying SN, SR would no longer be partnered with SN, and SN would head right into Star. With AA, there won't be as many changes and AA is financially loaded.
rgds,
blink182



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1467 times:

why should it alarm LH if SAS was interested in SN?????
SAS is certainly not looking for a new partner to substitute the alliance with LH because SK is enormously happy with LH and their relationship is a very close one...

rgds
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineEconojetter From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 430 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

Indeed, the SK/LH co-operation looks to be doing very well.

However, should SK formally express interest in SN, what should one make of it? SN is financially uninteresting to SK. LH might nevertheless worry about SK setting up another feeder hub in BRU. While extra capacity in BRU may sound like good news to Star in general, it is not of use to LH and has the potential to siphon off some traffic from FRA.

Another thing I noted about SK is that it is expanding significantly and has a pretty solid hub in CPH despite it still being a long way from the size and connectivity of FRA. Combine CPH with BRU, and traffic will bleed away from FRA.

Anyway, all this is hypothetical. I'm mainly not convinced that SK is that interested in SN. If it turns out to be so, I'd think LH would like to be let in as well.


User currently offlineFlying lsd From Belgium, joined Feb 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

Just some few days,and Christoph Muller CEO of SABENA will explain the new business plan .
ABOUT:

New small aircraft
Cancellation a airbus orders
New routes ?
New frequencies?
New partnership (deeper with AA)
SR?

Patience,its hard for everybody here in Belgium but wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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