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DFW: Ambitious Plans For Next 3-5 Years  
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11784 times:

According to the excellent DMN airline biz blog, DFW execs have some big plans and targets for increased international flights over the next 3-5 years.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...fw-airport-officials-see-a-lo.html

The blog is linked above, but the highlights are -:

DFW-DXB or AUA on Emirates or Etihad, apparently they are making great progress in talks with UAE officials on starting service.

DFW-SYD on Qantas, apparently they really want to serve the route but don’t have the right plane to do it yet.

DFW-MUC on Lufthansa, to their hub.

DFW-BCN on American/Iberia, apparently the market is the same size as DFW-MAD, where AA already has upgraded to a 777 for the peak summer season.

DFW-MAN on American, they think it will be possible with the upcoming ATI with BA.

DFW-China on American

More DFW-Mexico on Eagle, due to them buying more regional jets better suited to more markets.

Increased DFW-LHR, as a result of ATI, they think that BA may use the A380 because DFW is the largest oneworld hub.

Return of DFW-LIM on American, they think a 737 would be appropriate with the right engines??

Also, apparently KLM came really close to ending DFW-AMS service earlier in the year as their loads dropped to 37%. Apparently, things have picked up again now so it seems like the route is safe.

What do you guys think about these possibilities? Are any of them particularly likely? Any of them totally crazy?


Ryan / HKG
113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5240 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11786 times:

I think some of these are definitely likely such as expansion of LHR, while others are probably not more than wishful thinking.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-MUC on Lufthansa, to their hub.

Honestly, if we see a Texas-MUC flight, it's going to be IAH-MUC given the Star Alliance connection. I just don't see DFW happening.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
Also, apparently KLM came really close to ending DFW-AMS service earlier in the year as their loads dropped to 37%. Apparently, things have picked up again now so it seems like the route is safe.

37%? Yikes. Good to see that the flight is now improving.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-Mexico

I would say that this is quite possible.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-China on American

I don't know. The last Southern US-China flight wasn't exactly a smashing success. I have my doubts that DFW will be any better.

[Edited 2010-06-24 16:48:03]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11758 times:

The blog made a pretty exciting read. I think DFW-SYD/UAE are solid possibilities. AA has had yield problems at LIM in the past though but the prospects are still there with connecting opportunities at both ends. MAN would be a good market for AA with the ATI with BA. MAN is not currently connected to the Southwest/West Coast and there has been this void since PIA stopped operating MAN-IAH. There is definately a lot of room for DFW-Mexico routes. I would certainly love to see B6 in DFW. B6 should preferably add flights to upstate New York which is a major gap right now.

As far as totally crazy routes are concerned, I think DFW-MUC would be the closest one.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11745 times:

AA should really be calling it's One World partners to action for future expansion like UA does with a lot of their key airports. Seems like Iberia really should step in for seasonal DFW-BCN. Qantas from DFW-SYD has been rumored for years and still no action. It's too bad because DFW terminal D is beautiful.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11686 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-DXB or AUA on Emirates or Etihad, apparently they are making great progress in talks with UAE officials on starting service.

I would think EY have bigger fish to fry (IAD, IAH, and LAX) before considering flights to DFW. EK, on the other hand, I could see being fairly interested in serving additional U.S. gateways now that it successfully serves 4...

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-SYD on Qantas, apparently they really want to serve the route but don’t have the right plane to do it yet.

Perhaps it could be their first 787 route?  .

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-MUC on Lufthansa, to their hub.

If DEN-MUC didn't work out, there is little reason to believe DFW-MUC would stand a chance. LH would need feed on both ends of the flight to make it work...

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-BCN on American/Iberia, apparently the market is the same size as DFW-MAD, where AA already has upgraded to a 777 for the peak summer season.

MIA-BCN will come looooong before this one...

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-MAN on American, they think it will be possible with the upcoming ATI with BA.

Possible? Yes. Profitable? Doubtful. MAN is not a BA hub. Pax can easily reach MAN via ORD or JFK.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-China on American

An absolute possibility, if AA pilots agree to it.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
More DFW-Mexico on Eagle, due to them buying more regional jets better suited to more markets.

By far the most likely scenario that has been suggested. CO does not need to be the only U.S. airline serving Mexico beyond Mexico City, Cabo, Puerto Vallarta, and Cancun...

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):


Increased DFW-LHR, as a result of ATI, they think that BA may use the A380 because DFW is the largest oneworld hub.

BA will certainly be sending those A380s to JFK, LAX, JNB, NRT, and maybe even India. I would think that DFW would not be a top tier priority for them.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
Return of DFW-LIM on American, they think a 737 would be appropriate with the right engines??

AA now seems to be successfully pulling off DFW-secondary Latin American markets (SAL, PTY, etc.). If they can pull off flights to Manhattan, Kansas surely they can fill flights to Lima, Peru.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
Also, apparently KLM came really close to ending DFW-AMS service earlier in the year as their loads dropped to 37%. Apparently, things have picked up again now so it seems like the route is safe.

Sounds like a DL/NW merger-related sales error that was quickly rectified. Obviously the flights rely on DL feed...

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
Are any of them particularly likely?

SYD and more Mexico flights on Eagle.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
Any of them totally crazy?

DFW-MAN, DFW-MUC, and DFW-BCN certainly seem like lofty goals...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3609 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11612 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-DXB or AUA on Emirates or Etihad, apparently they are making great progress in talks with UAE officials on starting service.

I could easily see this on EK - they need somewhere to send those 90 sum odd 380s they will be getting.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-SYD on Qantas, apparently they really want to serve the route but don’t have the right plane to do it yet.

Yep, it's a perfect route for the 789.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-MUC on Lufthansa, to their hub.

Not sure about this one. Don't LH and AA already fly DFW-FRA?

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
Increased DFW-LHR, as a result of ATI, they think that BA may use the A380 because DFW is the largest oneworld hub.

Perhaps. But I could only see this at the expense of one of the other BA/AA routes.



PHX based
User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11577 times:

I read an article the other day (I forget what site - maybe usatoday.com) that said that Dallas has been the fastest growing major city in the US throughout this decade, according to this year's census. I think that it said that this applies to the entire DFW area as a matter of fact. Statistics like this certainly help the DFW airport in gaining more international flights.

User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11577 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-MUC on Lufthansa, to their hub.

AA have better luck starting DFW-MUC than LH. As OA412 said above, I would expect LH to announce IAH-MUC than DFW-MUC, especially with IAH as a strong Star hub.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):
I would think EY have bigger fish to fry (IAD, IAH, and LAX) before considering flights to DFW.

EY to IAH? I would actually think DFW would be higher priority than IAH because EY could get a head start collecting Gulf and South Asia traffic ahead of EK. I do wonder if EK would annouce a second IAH flight before a DFW flight.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 2):
MAN is not currently connected to the Southwest/West Coast and there has been this void since PIA stopped operating MAN-IAH.

PK never got much of the IAH-MAN traffic, even when they finally had 5th Freedom.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-SYD on Qantas, apparently they really want to serve the route but don’t have the right plane to do it yet.

I wonder if any pressure was given to this route after CO's announcement of IAH-AKL.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-SYD on Qantas, apparently they really want to serve the route but don’t have the right plane to do it yet.

The B789's should hopefully solve that problem.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-MUC on Lufthansa, to their hub.

DFW is "fort central" for AA, MUC is a "strong fort" for LH, I"m surprised they can't get AA to potentially fly from their "fort central" to a secondary market.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
More DFW-Mexico on Eagle,

....and double the miles...  

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 3):
DFW-SYD has been rumored for years and still no action. It's too bad because DFW terminal D is beautiful.

QF did have SYD-AKL-DFW read witha B744. The SARS of 2002/2003 ended it. QF will wait until they get the B789's....then they will go for it.

Too bad there isn't any talk of AA potentially starting DFW-ICN....rather its "flying over Korea"...

Getting EY would be nice, as AA already codeshares with EY out of ORD...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11547 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
Also, apparently KLM came really close to ending DFW-AMS service earlier in the year as their loads dropped to 37%. Apparently, things have picked up again now so it seems like the route is safe.

Sounds like a DL/NW merger-related sales error that was quickly rectified. Obviously the flights rely on DL feed...

Could you explain a little more of what you mean by "merger-related sales error"?

How much feed could DL or NW provide at DFW?


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11543 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
Too bad there isn't any talk of AA potentially starting DFW-ICN....rather its "flying over Korea"...

I've been to DFW several times and have seen a Korean Air 744 parked at terminal D. Where do they fly to?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2181 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11538 times:

Good read. Nice to know that DFW officials are at least stepping it up in terms of marketing the airport. The list doesn't seem that unreasonable, either.

EK and QF will definitely come within the next decade. Both carriers are poised for expansion and DFW serves as a good candidate as they will receive new aircraft deliveries.

Mexico will definitely happen; it's logical and indeed easier to pull off and sustain. It would be nice to see AA also expand into Central America more and capture markets like SAP, TGU, and MGA, and maybe even into the Caribbean and go for PUJ (although extremely leisure oriented, perhaps a Saturday only or seasonal service could work).

China I agree depends on pilot agreements, but is likely.

BCN may be as big as MAD but it is NOT an IB hub and ATI with IB does not guarantee anything. Same with MAN. The upgrade on the DFW-MAD flight is seasonal. The experts on a-net claim that it also was due to the premium class configuration on the 777 vs. 767 that warranted the operational change for the high season, which is credible. That doesn't mean that demand is explosive to the point that it makes sense to open up more cities in Spain.

The news about the KL flight nearly disappearing is worrisome. However, it's good that they were proactive in reviving it in time. Still, even though loads have improved, that should be enough to convince Lopano that plugging for non-OneWorld carriers at DFW is a stretch. A LH flight to MUC will need to rely on a *A feed which DFW doesn't have. KL's hub at AMS is quite extensive and far-reaching, and if DFW has problems filling a nonstop flight 4X/5X weekly to that market, what makes them think that MUC will be a smash hit as well? MUC is also already very well served from several domestic US gateway airports both on LH and other domestic US carriers (CO, UA, DL, US), so without a domestic partner airline to feed into DFW, will the flight be able to survive alone on O&D? I don't think that it will.

I don't understand the Korea comment he made...does that mean that KE will increase the frequency of its nonstop to ICN or does AA plan on starting flights to ICN?

Lima is tough - I really want this back. But 6 hours on a 737 is a long, long time. I guess if COPA can do it, AA can, too. It is also a OW hub with LAN's extensive network on the other end, so if this is marketed well, then it may be worth a try.

The A380 idea is very ambitious - but before we even remotely think about that happening, then first we need to see how well the BA 744 does at DFW along with the other AA flights. I imagine that premium pax want frequency more than size, and having 3-4 daily nonstop options to LHR is better than 2.

I am also really encouraged about the JetBlue news to JFK and BOS. I love JetBlue and the cooperation between AA and B6 makes this seem possible, since B6 would never take on AA head-to-head in the DFW-JFK/BOS markets.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5240 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11507 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
I've been to DFW several times and have seen a Korean Air 744 parked at terminal D. Where do they fly to?

KE flies DFW-ICN 3 or 4 times weekly.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2181 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11512 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
QF did have SYD-AKL-DFW read witha B744. The SARS of 2002/2003 ended it. QF will wait until they get the B789's....then they will go for it.

Too bad there isn't any talk of AA potentially starting DFW-ICN....rather its "flying over Korea"...

I lived in Dallas for 18 years and never once did QF serve DFW during this period. You may be confusing it with NZ which flew to DFW back in the 70's/80's, but that routing involved HNL/PPT/FRA or something like that.

I'd prefer AA to stay away from Korea. ICN is home to both a ST and a *A hub. OW has virtually no presence there. Plus, there's been a lot of blood and sacrifice to keep KE around in the market for the past 15 years and it is a success story - I would hate to see a silverbird drive it away.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11488 times:

MUC on LH to DFW with CO / IAH joing Star? Not going to happen.
LIM? The loads were soft and yield was terrible.
AUH on EY is a possibility with EY / AA.
A380 to LHR? JFK, ORD, LAX, SFO, etc. will see this before DFW.
BCN? Before MIA, probably not.
MAN? Low yield and already failed.
China? AA chose ORD over this.
SYD? Been rumored for years, hasn't happend yet.
Mexico on RJ's? This I can see happening.

Just because Eagle can make MHK-DFW work, does not mean DFW to LIM or DXB will work.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32694 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11472 times:

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-DXB or AUA on Emirates or Etihad, apparently they are making great progress in talks with UAE officials on starting service.

This will happen, no doubt, in 2-3 years.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-SYD on Qantas, apparently they really want to serve the route but don’t have the right plane to do it yet.

CO's announcement of AKL probably makes this a lot more likely.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):

DFW-BCN on American/Iberia, apparently the market is the same size as DFW-MAD, where AA already has upgraded to a 777 for the peak summer season.

This is never going to happen. The market size is the same, but DFW-MAD is already a tiny market that relies on heavy connections on both ends. DFW-BCN won't have that.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):

DFW-MAN on American, they think it will be possible with the upcoming ATI with BA.

If the ATI adds a new MAN-U.S.A route, it will be MIA-MAN.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-China on American

I personally think AA will expand to China from LAX before DFW.

Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter):
DFW-MUC on Lufthansa, to their hub.

Not before IAH-MUC.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 13):

I'd prefer AA to stay away from Korea. ICN is home to both a ST and a *A hub. OW has virtually no presence there.

The chances of AA flying to DFW-ICN by spring 2012 are, IMO, more than 75%.

If airlines shouldn't fly routes because an alliance has "virtually no presence" at an airport, then every airport would have a one-alliance monopoly.



a.
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3871 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11458 times:

Most likely/you can put your money on it:
More DFW-Mexico on Eagle (if CO can make a ton of secondary markets work from IAH, I see no reason why AA couldn't do the same at DFW, considering their hub is much larger and has more feed--I'm actually shocked they haven't tried to do more to replicate CO's success)

DFW-SYD--Qantas has stated that they will fly the route once they get the right aircraft to do so.

More likely than not:
Increased DFW-LHR--makes sense--the upgrade to the 747 by BA could easily just be the start

DFW-China--if AA can ever work out the situation with their pilots, and get the proper slots (if there wasn't a pilot issue, and the fact that DFW-PEK had to be moved, this would be in the "most likely" category)

Who knows/Wild Cards:
DFW-DXB/AUH---doesn't seem likely, given the lack of alliance connections, but these airlines are ordering a ton of aircraft and need some place to fly them. I could see DFW in the second or third wave of US expansion for these carriers (1st wave: NYC, ORD, LAX/SFO; 2nd wave: IAH, IAD, MIA)

DFW-LIM--it has a history, and AA has a strong presence in Latin America, so who knows.

Pipe dreams at best:
DFW-MAN--AA and BA have been allowed to codeshare on non-LHR transatlantic routes for a couple of years, and while DFW generates a ton of feed, MAN is an outstation for BA. I don't necessarily see it working out, but it could be one of those "niche" markets that is somehow successful even if it shouldn't be.

DFW-MUC--Will only occur on LH after they start IAH-MUC. Possible route that AA should look into, but they won't, because of their overly conservative international growth strategy. AA would probably do better on it than LH would.

DFW-BCN--not a chance. BCN has low yields, and Iberia no longer has a major hub there. Local market to BCN may be the same as MAD, but the connections at BCN pale in comparison to MAD.

Not mentioned (surprisingly), but routes that may be in DFW's future:
DFW-HKG on CX
DFW-TPE on EVA or China Airlines--Lopano and co. have been trying to get them for quite some time
DFW-ICN on AA (if Korean has been able to make it work, and quietly so, for quite some time, there's no reason why AA couldn't do the same)


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2181 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11443 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
f airlines shouldn't fly routes because an alliance has "virtually no presence" at an airport, then every airport would have a one-alliance monopoly.

Agreed, but the fact that ICN is home to two mega carriers (OZ and KE) that are part of two large alliances, this makes it all the more challenging for AA to enter into the market. I didn't mean to extrapolate my comment to all global airports - ICN just happens to be a unique case.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32694 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11410 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 17):

Agreed, but the fact that ICN is home to two mega carriers (OZ and KE) that are part of two large alliances, this makes it all the more challenging for AA to enter into the market. I didn't mean to extrapolate my comment to all global airports - ICN just happens to be a unique case.

But Dallas-Seoul is a surprisingly strong local market with most of the traffic Dallas-originating. AA can take the market from Korean quite easily, IMO.



a.
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11404 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
I personally think AA will expand to China from LAX before DFW.

I agree. I've heard a lot of rumors that AA will enter the LAX-PVG market when MU joins SkyTeam and the code-share ends.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11410 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
I've been to DFW several times and have seen a Korean Air 744 parked at terminal D. Where do they fly to?

Are you being sarcastic?

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 13):
I lived in Dallas for 18 years and never once did QF serve DFW during this period. You may be confusing it with NZ which flew to DFW back in the 70's/80's, but that routing involved HNL/PPT/FRA or something like that.

My bad IrishAyes..I meant "QF was going to start SYD-AKL-DFW" but decided to end the inauguration of the fight before it started due to SARS"...

There, hopefully that clears up... 
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 13):

I'd prefer AA to stay away from Korea. ICN is home to both a ST and a *A hub. OW has virtually no presence there. Plus, there's been a lot of blood and sacrifice to keep KE around in the market for the past 15 years and it is a success story - I would hate to see a silverbird drive it away.

All is fair in business... 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

I'm really surprised, or maybe disappointed that DFW is more excited about getting MUC instead of a direct connection to India. Unless the ties between Texas and Germany are ever larger than we know, I really don't think LH would be able to sustain MUC-DFW.

MAN and BCN, well I suppose we'll never know unless AA gives it a try.

The little tidbit about KL is a little surprising. I knew their loads were generally low, but not THAT low. But it seems as though traffic has picked up for them again because didn't they add back 1 extra frequency, or am I mistaken?

Australia, inevitable.

DXB and/or AUH, inevitable.

China, inevitable once they (AA pilots) can work out a contract that allows the flight.

LIM, sure I guess. Can the new 16F/144Y config 738 operate DFW-LIM?

New Mexico flights can surely be added. MQ has added 1 that I can remember. It still operates today, I don't think it's doing too bad, if bad at all.

JetBlue operating to DFW? I still don't see it happening.



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11355 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
AA can take the market from Korean quite easily, IMO.

AA would certainly get connecting pax from South America, e.g. GRU and SCL.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32694 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11342 times:

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 21):
China, inevitable once they (AA pilots) can work out a contract that allows the flight.

I will have to strongly disagree here. I think AA will concentrate the trans-Pacific focus on Chicago and Los Angeles in the next few years, especially with the JAL ATI. Not getting DFW-PEK was a blessing in disguise. It would have failed just as quickly as DL's ATL-PVG.

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 21):
MAN and BCN, well I suppose we'll never know unless AA gives it a try.

AA actually did give DFW-MAN a try in the 1990's.



a.
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11319 times:

Not to poke fun at MHK, but if MHK-DFW is the barometer of future flights, expect more chapter 11 filings. AA Eagle is the only game in town. This can not be compared to other markets. Also, MHK is a big college town, and college is now out for the summer. Lets see the performance by month for a year than performance for a few months.

25 aznmadsci : CO has already joined Star and IAH is a Star hub. Which airline are you talking about? EK already services to JFK, IAH, LAX, and SFO; EY has services
26 gemuser : No Then it's at least 5 years away As above Which is? Some facts. QF are getting the Qantas Groups first 15 B787s, they are B788s and, are currently
27 LAXdude1023 : Being a huge DFW fan, allow me to try and offer an objective opinion: DFW-MUC-Not going to happen probably ever. Not worth the effort. IAH-MUC probabl
28 aznmadsci : Hey B! Out of curiosity, why would AA wait so long to start DFW-ICN? Are they anticipating KE to go 6x weekly or daily before pouncing? In addition t
29 MAH4546 : That and LAX-PVG I've heard talk of lately. But we aren't going to hear anything until JL/AA is tied up and JL gets a say in things. I believe any tr
30 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Sup my homeboy from H-town! It all has to do with ATI. DFW-ICN is a very large local market. It has do be done strategically. Once they get ATI, they
31 CO777DAL : I live in Dallas and think the DFW execs need to put the pipe down. I be more concerned about helping AA right now. (lowering what ever cost they can
32 pdxtriple7 : I hope that DFW-LIM comes back. Was it flown on a 752 before? With LAN's strengthen in LIM and the numerous connections, especially as LAN increases d
33 bigGSFO : What's stopping LP from operating this route? Does a 320 have the legs for it?
34 SCL767 : LAN also relies on cargo for revenue and LAN will not operate the A320 from LIM to North America. LP would rather deploy their B763s on dense South A
35 laca773 : Hey Sr. B! How's it going? Thanks for your input on your fav, DFW! You have a great perspective as does Mark! I for one, see KL going seasonal. I don
36 KC135TopBoom : Remember, they worked on the DFW-AMS route for 7 years to get it on KLM. The problem with the DFW Board is they are still trying to compete with IAH,
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : We've been waiting for the past 7-8 years since they decided not to fly the route... a few more years isn't too bad... I've thought about that a numb
38 gdg9 : I thought D15 or 16 on the corner and D30 on the other corner could handle it? Although each would be done with just one jet bridge!
39 Post contains links airbazar : Uh? DFW has been A380 ready since 2005 when it opened its new International terminal D. http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...ternational-Airport-Re
40 SCL767 : I don't think that AA will re-launch DFW-LIM anytime soon. Also, AA would never use a B738 into LIM since LIM is very cargo intensive for most carrie
41 gemuser : Traditionally QF started new routes with the B747 at 3 weekly, move to 5 weekly, then 7 weekly as traffic built. I expect DFW could be built up more
42 LAXdude1023 : Wrong: There are 6,477,000 people in the DFW metroplex. There are 5,867,000 people in Metro Houston. DFW is no the 4th largest metro area and the 7th
43 jfk777 : Through many media outlets " Qantas managements couldn't make the case for the 777" over the years. Here is a perfect route for a 777LR if there ever
44 RJ111 : As usual a large amount of posts revolve around a route which won't realistically be possible with the 789 per Boeing latest range statement (8,150nm)
45 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I still think it will be difficult. There aren't too many routes from DFW that isn't served by LAX/SFO. LGA and South/Central America are a few route
46 bigGSFO : Lima is at sea level (well 113 ft.). There are no elevation issues.[Edited 2010-06-25 08:23:30]
47 laca773 : Thanks for information. I appreciate it, bigGSFO. I wonder if KL will keep the DFW-AMS flight around this winter with the extremely light loads &
48 LAXdude1023 : Hey Bro! Doing great over here, hope you are well too. It makes more sense for them not to. However, loads this summer have actually been very good, s
49 VC10DC10 : I'm not contradicting you; I'm just curious. 1. Granted most DFW-ICN traffic originates in DFW, but how much traffic does KE pick up throughout Asia
50 777STL : Per GCM, SYD-DFW is 7400 nm. Even with allowances for winds, reserve and diversion - the 789 certainly seems capable of operating this route. ETOPS a
51 thomasphoto60 : I was wondering how long it would take for response to that statement. Every trip I make to Dallas, it never ceases to amaze me how much Dallasites (
52 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : No problem. I will try and answer both in one blow. AA would have a hard time at ICN without ATI, but with it could work well. We have to remember tw
53 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Couldn't resist. Someone made an incorrect statement, I corrected them. If they hadn't brought it up, it never would have found its way onto this boa
54 miaintl : If KLM is planning to end DFW service, they can always bring there A330 to MIA. A 3-4 weekly flight to MIA might work for them, considering MIA-Europe
55 VC10DC10 : Thanks! Put that way, it makes a lot of sense.
56 IrishAyes : Completely agree. At the time, I was sad to lose this flight to IAD-PEK because of the pilot problems. Yet, low and behold, UA goes ahead and chops t
57 Post contains images commavia : Not much to add beyond what has already been covered by many others. This is certainly interesting - some of these are obvious, and make infinite sens
58 airbazar : DFW-SYD in the Summer and with strong head winds would be pushing the limits of the 789 I think. Not saying it can't be done, just saying there will
59 COflyerBOS : LAX- No need to apologize for getting the correct information out there. I too, am a stickler for city data. Here's all one needs to know. The CITY OF
60 Super80DFW : I think it's best that the City of Dallas isn't bigger than it is now. Not exactly the most well run city out there. Corruption trials, budget shortf
61 thomasphoto60 : Don't sweat it. Houston is my adopted hometown and while I do enjoy a good back-n-forth from time-to-time, I just don't take this rivalary too seriou
62 KC135TopBoom : I retired from DFW last year as an Airfield Operations Officer. The original plan for Terminal D included two A-380 gates, but when DFW had trouble g
63 ssides : I highly doubt that "many" people drive to OKC, AUS or SAT (which is a 5-hour drive) as an alternative to DFW. There may be a handful, but there are
64 IrishAyes : To be fair, as a native Dallas-ite, I feel like I could be standing somewhere in Houston and feel that it was no different than Dallas. But for as ma
65 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : I have to agree. One thing that shocked me when I moved here is how amazingly corrupt the City of Dallas and DISD are. I has to be one of the most co
66 Jacobin777 : The only time I connect via LAX internationally is when I fly SJC-LAX-LHR-LAX-SJC so I couldn't tell you about how seamless connections would be. Kno
67 LAXdude1023 : Yes, LAX, HNL, SFO, and JFK are by far the largest markets from Australia. DFW is the largest in Texas and the 2nd largest in the Southern states out
68 aznmadsci : Doesn't CX Cargo serve DFW? Would CX Cargo continue their flight if CX starts DFW? Would the 77W be able to do HKG-DFW?
69 MAH4546 : When Australian visit the United States - perhaps by habit - many tend to start or end in Los Angeles,and then take separately ticketed domestic legs
70 LAXdude1023 : In fairness, Texas is easy to market because its easy to stereotype. They could probably market a package with rodeo's, Cowboys (the football team) t
71 Post contains images OA412 : Don't forget the tours of Southfork Ranch.
72 GlobalCabotage : Regarding KL at DFW, I can see this route going seasonal if not canned at all. The route is very low yielding, and 70% in summer is not making money a
73 Tan Flyr : While not an "international: destination, I sure would like to see a widebody on DFW-SJU again for LD3 cargo traffic connecting from LAX. Even if the
74 gdg9 : I think continued talk of AA opening DFW-ICN is fantasy. I don't see it happening. AA can continue to feed Asian connections through Narita and JAL.
75 IrishAyes : Music to my ears!...in fact, whenever I drive to DFW from my house, I usually take Royal to Luna then hop over to 635 and head westward...passing all
76 Seatback : For the sake of relevance and this discussion, we have to look at total metro populations. In doing so, DFW is 6.4 million or fourth largest national
77 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : Not sure about how cargo would work out, but he B77W would have no problems on the route.. Unfortunately I still can't find the reference even though
78 Post contains images gemuser : This list is based on AA's Oct 2007 timetable and only shows flights leaving DFW between approx 10:00 am and 11:00 am, allowing a two hour connect fr
79 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : Gemuser, thanks for that extensive list.. ....Given the list, while you are correct, not that there will be too much potential between Australia and A
80 LAXdude1023 : Here's one. AA will fly DFW-BGI 3x a week starting in the winter. Didnt see that one coming.
81 gemuser : It is a bit of a risk, BUT QF is a VLA specialist, if anybody is and the timing may dictate that QF "abuse" an A380 from say late 2011 to 2015. It ca
82 LAXdude1023 : The loads have been higher than that so far this summer and so have the yields. True, KL still isnt doing well in the winter here, but they are filli
83 Scorp82 : I agree. The notion of BA sending the A380 to DFW is quite ambitious and frankly such idea is highly unlikely, in my honest opinion. BA has bigger fi
84 bigGSFO : Maybe I am alone in this thought, but it doesn't seems that far fetched. One ATI is in place, DFW-LHR traffic will increase. A single A380 (+1 or 2 A
85 LAXdude1023 : I think it would be better to throw a couple of 744's as opposed to an A380. If BA had more of them, I might agree. But with what they have, the 744
86 bigGSFO : How many 380s does BA have/ordered?
87 gdg9 : 12 A380s. They also ordered 24 787s and a few 773s will soon be delivered as well.
88 GlobalCabotage : AKL-DFW? NZ tried this 20 years ago and it failed like the US vs Ghana! NZ will be in ORD before DFW (* hub, and CO is starting IAH-AKL, so ORD is the
89 lightsaber : Which begs the question, why hasn't AA done that? They could use the revenue... I see the value KE offers the DFW market via connections. What I've r
90 FRNT787 : Glad to see that DFW management is working at getting new service to international destinations. As much time as I spend there it will be nice to see
91 MAH4546 : Largely O'Hare and LaGuardia.
92 keesje : Most of the passengers on these flights are from Europe and Middle East transferring at AMS. KL flies twice daily on IAH, also a business class only
93 iahredhead : I'm just curious, not disputing you. Why don't you think DFW-China would work? Do you think any non-stop Texas-China route would work? Thanks, Scott
94 airbazar : I'm not disputing that A380 ready taxiway are limited, the article I posted states that much. But I find it strange that an article published a day a
95 LAXdude1023 : Umm...No one said anything about NZ or DFW-AKL. I dont even know where you got that from. DFW-SYD on the other hand will happen someday. I just dont
96 Post contains images Burner71 : You guys saying DFW-MUC will never work, obviously don't realize that there is a monstrous German population just south of Dallas starting just north
97 ssides : I think there is a large enough market for both. While EK's IAH-DXB flight has sufficient O&D traffic, many of its connecting pax originate at DF
98 LAXdude1023 : Well, DFW is a larger local market to China than ATL is. Not to mention the rest of Texas. However, the logical market for AA to serve from DFW is IC
99 commavia : Wrong. Many of us - who live here in the Metroplex and Texas - do realize it, but also realize how insignificant it is. The market for travel to Germ
100 aznmadsci : Just to clarify, KL flies daily 74M AMS-IAH and 6x weekly BBJ AMS-IAH on PrivatAir. KL used to have a 767 IAH flight before that was changed over to
101 ssides : This is correct; plus, CO flies IAH-AMS daily with a 764. That's quite a few seats between IAH and AMS each day.
102 LipeGIG : DFW-Sao Paulo use to be 12x weekly with around 20%-25% of their passengers going to GIG. What about a potential 3 to 5x weekly DFW-GIG now that all pa
103 commavia : I, personally, don't see it. I think that, if given the choice, AA would happily rather connect DFW-GIG traffic over MIA than GRU, and either way, I
104 behramjee : I know for a fact that EY have already completed a case study for AUH-DFW using an A 345 on a daily basis from Winter 2011 as I have friends in their
105 LAXdude1023 : Any word on if there is any interest on their end for DFW?
106 david_itl : MAN-DFW ran for 2 summers - more like 4 months 1 year and 6 months the following; it was somthing like 1993 and 1994 AA110/111. In terms of getting pa
107 IrishAyes : Perhaps with AA now having rights to fly JFK-GIG nonstop, eliminating the need for the current direct flight that makes a same-plane stopover in GRU,
108 ssides : I thought it was around as recently as 1999 or 2000 .... sounds like it could have been one of those axed after 9/11?
109 LAXdude1023 : IAH would be first banana because CO is in the Star Alliance. There is actually more traffic between DFW and India and the Indian community is larger
110 DFWEagle : IrishAyes is right about the years, DFW-MAN operated for the summers of 1998 and 1999. david_itl is very accurate about how long the route lasted - 4
111 commavia : AA actually flew DFW-MAN as recently as 1998 - with the flight beginning 5 July of that year, and with a 3-class 767-300ER (as AA's international 767
112 LipeGIG : I believe not. If AA would think that it's interesting to add DFW-GRU-GIG they would do that. The end of the tag brings a lot of advantages in terms
113 david_itl : Unfortunately, I don't have the newspaper clipping where I thought I safely secured it, nor do I have a scanner. But I distinctly remember it took up
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