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Virgin And Star Alliance  
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3199 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7299 times:

Given that:

* SRB has recently talked about looking for merger partners for VS;

* The Australian off-shoot's new Chief Exec is talking about streamlining the 3 discreet brands of Virgin Blue, Pacific Blue and V-Australia;

* The Australian airline is investigating notching up its service level to offer a full-service across all sectors; and

* Virgin (Australia) and NZ are investigating co-operation in the region to more effectively compete with QF/JQ.

Is it not time and would it not make sense for the Virgin Group internationally (specifically VS, VA and DJ) to look at joining an alliance? And would not Star make the best sense? What do you all think? It appears to me that it fits well with Star's existing offering and would offer Virgin the support it may require to be a more compelling offering in its own markets.

Kia ora
MH

[Edited 2010-06-28 12:19:35]


come visit the south pacific
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5198 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7228 times:

Whilst I would like to see it happen, I doubt it will happen.

Dont forget DJ is also cosying upto EK and DL. I am sure the new CEO sees the benefits in being ina global alliance.... I would definately chose STAR over SKYTEAM given Skyteam.

I wonder how SQ feels about this given they have refused to co operate with DJ in the past.


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3199 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 1):
Dont forget DJ is also cosying upto EK and DL.

This would appear more tactical than strategic to me, economically expedient in the short term rather than a relationship designed for long term mutual benefit.

Yes interesting point about SQ too.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5642 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6714 times:

IMHO VBH would be better off in Sky Team as it would bring more to that alliance then it would to StarA and thus be more valuable to that alliance than it would be to StarA . In StarA it would bump up aganist NZ on the Pacific and SQ/TG in Asia, in ST it would have free rein the only duplicate route would be DLs LAX-SYD , which they have already applied for JV approval.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6300 times:

If somehow Virgin America were included in the alliance, I suspect that UA, CO and US would have a big problem with them joining Star. If they were not included, it would present a unique marketing problem for the Virgin brand.


Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5585 times:

I fail to see what VS would bring to Star that they do not already have. Looking at LHR alone, Star has pretty much all the angles covered, certainly I cannot see a merged CO and UA wanting VS in Star. IMHO they would be better off in Skyteam.

User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

I tend to agree. VS membership in SkyTeam would be far more mutually beneficial than in Star Alliance. The only VS destinations in the US not covered by a merged CO/UA would be JFK (covered by CO at EWR), MCO, LAS (both leisure-dominated anyway), MIA and BOS. BOS may eventually be picked up by Star anyway as a result of the divestitures required for AA/BA ATI approval.

User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3183 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5426 times:

I don't think there is any real reason for any of the Virgin Airlines to join one of the major alliances, not sure why they don't just market the Virgin alliance strongly.


Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineNZerinDXB From United Arab Emirates, joined Feb 2008, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 7):
I don't think there is any real reason for any of the Virgin Airlines to join one of the major alliances, not sure why they don't just market the Virgin alliance strongly

I very much agree with you.

Virgin can continue to develop and grow tactical and stategic relationships in an individual basis, removing any potential for route cannibalisation or other conflicts of interest. From a marketing perspective, one the strongest alliance benefits is reciprocal lounge access and the ablity to accrue miles/points towards status across a multitude of carriers - elements which can be negotiated and agreed to bilaterally between a streamlined Virgin brand and its airline partners should the competitive need exist.


User currently offlinegoomba From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

Sky Team would make the most sense.

User currently offlineRising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 269 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

Not if Glenn Tilton has anything to do with it.  

The background to the following quote is a long-running tiff between Tilton and Branson that started when Branson, a long-time critic of United, said United would be the first airline to pull out from the US-Austrailia market after V Austrailia enters the fray.

Here is the quote from Tilton, as quoted from a newspaper article, at the TAM entry ceremony in Brazil about Branson and V Austrailia.

"Tilton, a no-nonsense former Texas oilman, shows no love for his Australian competitors. He could not resist taking a swipe at Richard Branson, Virgin's largest shareholder, who claimed early last year that United would be the first of the four airlines servicing the route to pull out.

''Ah, so how does that look today? Or, as Sarah Palin likes to say, 'So how is that working for ya?' '' Tilton exclaimed at the gathering in Sao Paulo to mark the inclusion of Brazilian airline TAM into the Star Alliance group of airlines.

These guys are not very fond of each other. But never say never.

Full article...http://www.smh.com.au/business/airline-merger-threat-to-qantas-20100520-vp78.html



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

Quoting Rising (Reply 10):
Not if Glenn Tilton has anything to do with it.

The background to the following quote is a long-running tiff between Tilton and Branson that started when Branson, a long-time critic of United, said United would be the first airline to pull out from the US-Austrailia market after V Austrailia enters the fray.

Here is the quote from Tilton, as quoted from a newspaper article, at the TAM entry ceremony in Brazil about Branson and V Austrailia.

"Tilton, a no-nonsense former Texas oilman, shows no love for his Australian competitors. He could not resist taking a swipe at Richard Branson, Virgin's largest shareholder, who claimed early last year that United would be the first of the four airlines servicing the route to pull out.

''Ah, so how does that look today? Or, as Sarah Palin likes to say, 'So how is that working for ya?' '' Tilton exclaimed at the gathering in Sao Paulo to mark the inclusion of Brazilian airline TAM into the Star Alliance group of airlines.

These guys are not very fond of each other. But never say never.

Full article...http://www.smh.com.au/business/airline-merger-threat-to-qantas-20100520-vp78.html

I agree never say never, certainly not in aviation but I cannot see for one minute, VS coming into the Star mold at all, many competitiors, UA included would probably rather see them go to Skyteam or merged into another airline rathere than having SRB on board. I take my hat off to him for waht he has acheived but right now with the BA/AA ATI about to be given the green light, he realises he is being pushed into a corner and now he might find out who he has really hacked off in the pass and whether they will offer him an olive branch. I dont see anyone chasing after VS at this time.


User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Im assuming there is a reason we can't have a virgin brand alliance. People taking virgin Atlantic to JFK could continue on to LAS on virgin America for example

User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3522 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 1):
I would definately chose STAR over SKYTEAM given Skyteam.

Why? To be submerged in the middle of a bunch of 50 airlines?
I am sure that many airlines are unhappy, especially in Europe to be lost in Star Alliance. For instance Sky Team would have developed VIE for OS without the current competition of LH in CIS and ME.

The same, what’s the point for MS and ET to be in the same alliance?

And in Latam, having Mexicana and Copa what would the point to include Taca/AV?

At least all these airlines would be the only one leader and in strong position on their markets inside Sky Team.

In any case, maybe Jet Airways will choose Sky Team… I know that negotiations are on the way….

And Finnair would be happier to use the power of AMS and CDG hubs than being lost alone in OW with no significant hubs synergies at LHR or MAD.


User currently offlineota1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3340 times:
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Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
For instance Sky Team would have developed VIE for OS without the current competition of LH in CIS and ME.

So, what keeps them from doing so with OK and PRG????
BTW OS is not really unhappy being a part of the Lufthansa group, in fact LH was their favourite partner from the very beginning. LH will be developing OS but as per EU ruling OS needs to be profitable first.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
The same, what’s the point for MS and ET to be in the same alliance?

Easy: MS is great for north-south connections while the major part of ET's is connecting Eastern with Western Africa

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
And in Latam, having Mexicana and Copa what would the point to include Taca/AV?

MX is member of oneworld, CM is not a Star Alliance member either

[Edited 2010-06-29 09:13:22]

User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
Why? To be submerged in the middle of a bunch of 50 airlines?
I am sure that many airlines are unhappy, especially in Europe to be lost in Star Alliance. For instance Sky Team would have developed VIE for OS without the current competition of LH in CIS and ME.



You have a good point there. It just looks like Star wants to take every single airline it can get it's hands on.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
In any case, maybe Jet Airways will choose Sky Team… I know that negotiations are on the way….



You are right, I did hear that rumor in ATL, that their really pushing for Jet Airways, one of the reasons is because Air India is their biggest competitor right behind Kingfisher. Air India is definitely joining Star while Kingfisher is going with One world, it just makes sense.


User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

I also think that V Australia and Virgin Atlantic will do great in SkyTeam too.

User currently onlinewilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2385 times:

This topic comes up at least once a week on these boards.

VS historically has the most links with *A carriers especially when one looks at their FF partners.

With the possible tie up between DJ and NZ on the ditch services this could make *a membership more likely especially given the lack of domestic coverage *A has in Australia.

However what I think is more likely will be much greater co-operation between virgin branded companies in the form of it's own mini alliance. With time it may go and join *A or at least create strong links.

I don't see Skyteam being a choice for any Virgin branded company. Other than the link up with DL that VA has there is no other "history" between any of the virgin companies and skyteam carriers. The ties between virgin branded companies and *A are too strong to ignore.


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3199 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 12):
Im assuming there is a reason we can't have a virgin brand alliance.
Quoting BNE (Reply 7):
I don't think there is any real reason for any of the Virgin Airlines to join one of the major alliances, not sure why they don't just market the Virgin alliance strongly.
Quoting NZerinDXB (Reply 8):
Virgin can continue to develop and grow tactical and stategic relationships in an individual basis, removing any potential for route cannibalisation or other conflicts of interest.

I totally agree as I'm sure that was and is the master plan, to develop a global network of Virgin airlines, but economics, time and industry evolution may be conspiring against SRB's vision hence his oft-quoted comments about consolidation.

Also, the one team one dream ethos necessary for the vision goes only so far; if you're the CEO of one discrete part of the puzzle your ultimate responsibility lies with that part rather than the whole. The risks of relying upon new start-up Virgins for feed etc outweigh the potential benefits of other existing mutual benefactors.

It's kind of like the inverse of EK's one airline one hub for the world, instead one airline group with discrete and distinct focuses. How strong is the Virgin brand and can they do it without having to resort to... say Star?

MH



come visit the south pacific
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