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Lufthansa To Overhaul Cabin On European Flights  
User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12043 times:

Apparently they are going to redesign the cabin on the European fleet, but details are sketchy at this time.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...aul-cabin-on-european-flights.html

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11963 times:

Excellent, I look forward to trying it  


Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11441 times:

Based on the quotes from the article, I would guess that they are probably moving in the direction of US carriers and offering a European F in the same vein as US airlines offer domestic F...and doing away with the "blocked" middle seat in what they currently call the J cabin. I'm also guessing that they are thinking of adding at the very least TV monitors in the Y cabin if not PTVs nose-to-tail.


Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 3023 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10916 times:

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 2):
Based on the quotes from the article, I would guess that they are probably moving in the direction of US carriers and offering a European F in the same vein as US airlines offer domestic F...and doing away with the "blocked" middle seat in what they currently call the J cabin. I'm also guessing that they are thinking of adding at the very least TV monitors in the Y cabin if not PTVs nose-to-tail.

actually it is a new seat in Economy Clas which is much slimmer than the current one. this will offer a much confortable feeling. a Business Class like US carriers have is an absolute no-go for LH. they want to be flexible with the moveable cabin divider.


User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10905 times:

They are putting new seats in and reduce the space for the galleys to further increase seating capacity.

For example y204 on the A321...


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10932 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10725 times:

I think the europe flights are allright as they are, I just hope it doesn't turn into cattle transport or I will switch to LX for everyone of my Europe flights. Wait and see.


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10685 times:

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 2):
Based on the quotes from the article, I would guess that they are probably moving in the direction of US carriers and offering a European F in the same vein as US airlines offer domestic F...and doing away with the "blocked" middle seat in what they currently call the J cabin.

That would be a very poor decision. There is no demand for a true first class product on shorthaul routes within Europe as was proven many years ago when every carrier dropped their European F class products. The current flexible cabin is far better due to the wide variations in demand from day to day and from route to route.

LH announced months ago that they were replacing seats on their European fleet with new lightweight seats which permits increased seating capacity without affecting legroom. LX did it on their A319/320/321s about 3 years ago.


User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10655 times:

Quoting 328JET (Reply 4):
For example y204 on the A321...

JJ has 220 seats on their A321. 204 sounds spacy.
 


User currently offlineskord From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10625 times:

Can we expect to see any changes with the On-board service? As much as im appreciative of the "free" sandwich, they are rather plain (cheese, cheese or cheese!) However... as long as the drinks are free, i will always enjoy LH short-haul! I honestly think that on Legacy carriers within europe you cannot beat LH & LX for good quality, and CONSISTANT, standards of service in the air.

User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10568 times:

Quoting skord (Reply 8):

I couldn't agree more with you. I've been trying many legacy carriers on intra-European flights, but LH is in a class of its own. Speaking about the seats, I've had the chance to try these new Recaro on Lufthansa Italia and on JL's 738s (I believe they belong to the same family, though JL ones are covered in fabric and have a PTV) and my verdict is: they are, right now, my favorites on short haul flights.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10544 times:

Quoting skord (Reply 8):
Can we expect to see any changes with the On-board service? As much as im appreciative of the "free" sandwich, they are rather plain (cheese, cheese or cheese!) However... as long as the drinks are free, i will always enjoy LH short-haul! I honestly think that on Legacy carriers within europe you cannot beat LH & LX for good quality, and CONSISTANT, standards of service in the air.

Agreed, although they could make the sandwich a little bit bigger, come on... bread is cheap, and to me it does not matter if its only cheese, cheese or chees as long as its fullfiling.

Could they also retrofit the older Airbus cabins with the new Airbus ones? they are more bright, nicer and of course they make the plane quieter (I noticed it recently on a few flights)

Can´t wait to try it out.

MIAspotter



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3186 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10464 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 5):
I think the europe flights are allright as they are, I just hope it doesn't turn into cattle transport or I will switch to LX for everyone of my Europe flights. Wait and see.

Interesting enough, LX has a higher seat density than LH on board of it's A319/A320/A321 fleet, as a result of using slim line seats. Most likely, LH will use a configuration very similar to LX.

LHs A320s have 150 seats (when all middle seats are used). The A320s used by LX seat 168, so they have 6 more rows. Next to using slim line seats, it looks like the galleys on board the LX aircraft are smaller.

The LX A321 seats formally up to 200 aircraft, but actually has 207 seats installed. The first 7 middle seats however are always blocked, probably in order to be able to schedule the plane with 4 FA/s. LHs A321 has 190 seats, so again 6 more rows.

For the A319 the difference is smaller; LH has installed 132 seats and LX 138, so just one more row.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 2):
Based on the quotes from the article, I would guess that they are probably moving in the direction of US carriers and offering a European F in the same vein as US airlines offer domestic F...and doing away with the "blocked" middle seat in what they currently call the J cabin. I'm also guessing that they are thinking of adding at the very least TV monitors in the Y cabin if not PTVs nose-to-tail.

Interesting how one can read different things from the article  .

For example, "to introduce a new service concept" could as well mean that they consider introducing buy-on-board in Y.

[Edited 2010-06-29 02:37:05]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10381 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 11):
LHs A320s have 150 seats (when all middle seats are used). The A320s used by LX seat 168, so they have 6 more rows.

I think you mean 3 more rows. (3 rows of 6 seats each).


User currently offlineskord From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10287 times:

Another point in LH's favour is that no matter what plane you are flying on, it is ALWAYS spotlessly clean and smart looking. Altough the cabin may overall appear a little clinical and sterile it does portray an image of professionalism and a Business orientated product. This is something that is sadly lacking in many EU Carriers these days. As my usermane may suggest, im closely connected to SK, and altough i think they are excellent on the ground, their in-flight service in Y within Europe is shoddy to say the least ( Business class though, i would rate SK higher than LH in terms of service and meals provided) I do however rate LH & SK equal in Long-haul, but for different reasons.

But back to topic... for many years i have been a huge BA fan. Their Crew i think are the best in Europe, if not the world. Their professionalism and genuine personal warmth are always a breath of fresh air. However... with the slow deterioration of their on-board service, and aircraft interiors looking more and more worn out by the day, BA are going to loose out big time. If LH do manage to pull of something a "little extra" ... i really do think we will see LH becoming the "quality" airline of europe.


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3836 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10193 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 11):
The LX A321 seats formally up to 200 aircraft

Wow awesome! That is more than twice as much as the USS Nimitz!

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineskord From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10098 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 14):
Wow awesome! That is more than twice as much as the USS Nimitz!

All the UK charter airlines (TOM, MON, TCX) operate their A-321's with 220 seats.


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3836 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10034 times:

Quoting skord (Reply 15):
All the UK charter airlines (TOM, MON, TCX) operate their A-321's with 220 seats.

I think you're not getting it  
Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9963 times:

Quoting skord (Reply 8):
Can we expect to see any changes with the On-board service? As much as im appreciative of the "free" sandwich, they are rather plain (cheese, cheese or cheese!)

I believe I read on another forum just two or three weeks ago that the on-board service should be streamlined and rather downgraded.
Any hopes for an upgrade of the 'free' on-board service in Y these days are not really realistic IMHO.


User currently offlineskord From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9948 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 16):
I think you're not getting it
Soren

I think i just got it.... stupid me!!   

It must have been the language barrier confusing me!!  


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9803 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 14):
Wow awesome! That is more than twice as much as the USS Nimitz!

It goes to show how flexible the A321 is!  a truly multi-role aircraft.

MIAspotter



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10932 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9654 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 11):
The LX A321 seats formally up to 200 aircraft
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 14):
The LX A321 seats formally up to 200 aircraft

Hilarious indeed!   



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9489 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 11):
Interesting how one can read different things from the article .

For example, "to introduce a new service concept" could as well mean that they consider introducing buy-on-board in Y.

I agree. We're in the year 2010, not 1985. Any announcement by an airline to introduce a "new service concept" should be viewed with suspicion; expecting a product improvement is rather naive.
LH has already said that their short-haul network is losing money. So they'll have to redesign the product offering. However, LH is a smart airline and IMO they won't follow a "me-too" BOB strategy, but propose something different.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8913 times:
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Quoting r2rho (Reply 21):

I agree. We're in the year 2010, not 1985. Any announcement by an airline to introduce a "new service concept" should be viewed with suspicion; expecting a product improvement is rather naive.
LH has already said that their short-haul network is losing money. So they'll have to redesign the product offering. However, LH is a smart airline and IMO they won't follow a "me-too" BOB strategy, but propose something different.

As the article states, the changes will mean more comfort and better inflight service compared to what is offered currently. By saying this, I don't see LH going BOB catering in Y. LX did that several years back when they were working theirselves out of bankruptcy and we all know how customers felt about the BOB service. It didn't last long at all.

I think what we may see is the same sort of complimentary catering of snacks on European short haul (i.e., sandwiches) and have on offer, a more substantial or deluxe snack or meal. It will give customers a choice and from what I've seen on airlines like Hawaiian (HA) who are the only U.S. airline who has continued to serve complimentary meals in Y and at the same time offer a more substantial, "fancier" meal for US $10. This was a smart move on HA's part as it's proven to be a success and passengers actually like the options available as they are good and worth the money.
Doesn't Air Berlin offer something similar to what I have mentioned HA offers?


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8757 times:

Quoting skord (Reply 13):
Another point in LH's favour is that no matter what plane you are flying on, it is ALWAYS spotlessly clean and smart looking

I would say it feels quite different onboard LH's A32x vs their 737s


User currently offline330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 604 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8478 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 11):
Interesting enough, LX has a higher seat density than LH on board of it's A319/A320/A321 fleet, as a result of using slim line seats. Most likely, LH will use a configuration very similar to LX.

LHs A320s have 150 seats (when all middle seats are used). The A320s used by LX seat 168, so they have 6 more rows. Next to using slim line seats, it looks like the galleys on board the LX aircraft are smaller.

The LX A321 seats formally up to 200 aircraft, but actually has 207 seats installed. The first 7 middle seats however are always blocked, probably in order to be able to schedule the plane with 4 FA/s. LHs A321 has 190 seats, so again 6 more rows.

For the A319 the difference is smaller; LH has installed 132 seats and LX 138, so just one more row.

If LH inspires their new cabin on the LX one, I can only encourage them. LX's 32S cabin is one of the best European cabins out there. Good and roomy seats, inviting cabin. Even in their Avro's, the comfort is above average in Europe.

Way to go!



Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
25 vv701 : BA's first aircraft to be fitted with slim-back seats in the Y cabin was their first A321, G-EUXC. The seats were fitted by Airbus before the aircraft
26 Post contains images joost : I'm glad to provide for your daily laugh I wouldn't be surprised at all if they do something like this: start charing for meals, but improve food qua
27 Icelandair : Won't happen, Lufthansa will increase the offerings instead, bringing back sandwiches on domestic flights. BA gives you a pack of crisps on European
28 fn1001 : In LH's economy seats I felt comfortable with my 250 lbs spread over 6 ft. I am really curious what they mean with: "more comfort and service in econo
29 laca773 : This is nothing new to me. If you noticed, I'm from the U.S.. I was aware of this well before considering what the so called "full service airlines"
30 United787 : Forgive me for my ignorance but none of the European airlines have a European F Class? I saw the movable "blocked" middle seat thing last year on a d
31 Post contains links and images oa260 : Olympic Air do on key routes and so far its proving a success, Uploaded with ImageShack.us
32 Viscount724 : I thought LX made that decision before the LH takeover. But in either case, that experiment was a failure and lost LX a lot of connecting passengers
33 SSTsomeday : I wonder if they would compromise with: 1) OK - those European-style economy seats up front with those adjustable armrests to increase the width when
34 LHPII : The new seats will be more or less the same as LX's current seats, seat pocket will be pushed up thus creating more legroom space and enabling LH to i
35 Post contains links A342 : "Lufthansa says 'new European cabin' is NOT about density" http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/ru...ufthansa-says-new-european-ca.html "Instead, we will
36 Post contains links LondonCity : In fact, this is not a new story. It was broken in November last year by the business media in Germany and later developed by Business Traveller along
37 ju068 : That is why Austrian Airlines beats all of them!
38 MIAspotter : I guess so, but what I mean is that the new cabin design on the Airbuses makes it more quieter, maybe they have improved soundproofing or something,
39 SKAirbus : Interesting... Is there any news on whether or not LH will introduce its service concept on BMI flights? I.e. complimentary refreshments?
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