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Indiana Airports  
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9720 times:

I want to start a thread about airports in Indiana with a focus on SBN, FWA, IND, HUF, LAF and EVV (especially EVV since there are not enough topics about it).

I personally follow SBN very, very closely and I would like to know more about what is going on at Indiana's other commercial and GA airports. I learned to fly at EKM, so if anyone follows EKM, please post what you know.

Due to the response to FWAERJ's latest thread about IND competition with other Indiana airports this should be a fairly popular thread.

So, EVV people, where are you? Anything good on the horizon down there in Evansville?


"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
205 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3045 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9670 times:

Cleared2land maybe you can update us on a recent development at EVV. They had a meeting with people near the airport regarding a plan to relocate their main runway. Apparently this would affect one of the nearby roads. Since the meeting has already taken place maybe you could fill us in on what concerns were raised and what was decided regardng this matter. I found this information from a story that was posted earlier this month.

Courtesy: WEHT-TV

Final Hearing For Evv Airport Expansion

http://www.news25.us/Global/story.asp?S=12593012

Courtesy: WFIE-TV

Airport Officials Address Community At Final Public Hearing

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=12592804

[Edited 2010-06-29 15:21:03]

User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2357 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9525 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

The National Intercollegiate Flying Association's annual competition took place at HUF this past May; got quite busy there. Billboards for the event were even put up along the I-70!

User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9447 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 1):
They had a meeting with people near the airport regarding a plan to relocate their main runway.

I remember hearing about this in the past. It isn't really a relocation but more of a "shift" to the Northeast. It looks like EVV is faced with the same problem that SBN had with 18/36. The new regs require a greater distance between the runway threshold and roadways (1000 feet I believe from the threshold and 500' on each side of the centerline for obstructions). SBN's 18/36 didn't comply so they for a while had to have a relocated threshold of between 800-1000 feet North on the South end of the runway until they moved a roadway to get the full 7,100 feet back.


It appears that EVV wants to keep the usable runway at 8,021 feet which is why having a relocated threshold won't due. They are proposing to remove 2,450' of runway on the Southwest end and adding 2,450' to the Northeast end, thus maintaining the 8,021 foot length. EVV's runway 4/22 and 18/36 will no longer intersect once this shift is complete.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9412 times:

Quoting je89_w (Reply 2):
The National Intercollegiate Flying Association's annual competition took place at HUF this past May; got quite busy there. Billboards for the event were even put up along the I-70!

Good 'ol HUF. I was actually born in Terre Haute. I only flew in once, actually, over, on a solo cross country flight from EKM to Vincennes. Good airport there.

Too bad HUF lost all commercial service.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3045 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9320 times:

Here is a writeup with a lot of detail about SBN:


Courtesy: The South Bend Tribune

The South Bend Regional Airport: Michiana's Landing Zone For Economic Development

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100629/THRIVE/100629428


On another note despite the fact that IND has a brand new terminal there is already talk of expansion in the future.

Courtesy: WRTV

Airport Expansion Focus Of New Study

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/23938739/detail.html

[Edited 2010-06-30 13:46:07]

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9287 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 5):
On another note despite the fact that IND has a brand new terminal there is already talk of expansion in the future.

Most of this growth is for cargo and an "aerotropolis", though passenger volume is being considered.

Honestly, IND's Concourse B is packed to the brims while Concourse A is mostly empty. I think IND should offer incentives to move UA from B to the three vacant pre-merger DL gates in A. UA/CO will have to locate on one concourse or another anyway, and this could free up gates for either existing or new carriers. Is such a move in the plans?

While on the topic of new IND carriers, I have heard that the IAA wants Spirit and that they want to land at IND, but that NK will not due to the exorbitant (from their standpoint) gate and terminal use charges (which the IAA isn't budging on). Maybe IND wants NK service to MYR as revenge for G4 launching FWA-MYR, which reversed leakage from IND on that route? I could only imagine the color of IAA executive faces if an airline, any airline, started FWA-RSW or FWA-PGD...

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 4):
Too bad HUF lost all commercial service.

What was the problem... the LCCs at IND, or inadequate service?

I know that FWA sold a fire and deicing truck to them on the cheap two years ago and HUF tried to gain CO to CLE (and even got an SCASD grant for the route, IIRC). They almost got Branson Air Express, but IND snatched it away from them before the first flight.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9191 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 5):
Here is a writeup with a lot of detail about SBN:


Courtesy: The South Bend Tribune

The South Bend Regional Airport: Michiana's Landing Zone For Economic Development

http://www.southbendtribune.com/arti...29428

I saw that the other day on SBN's Facebook page. The total economic impact is in the billions, lol. I knew it was high, but that high in the billions amazed me.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9180 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
What was the problem... the LCCs at IND, or inadequate service?

The fact that IND is like, I don't know, 70 miles or so from HUF makes it really tough to get airlines. I just don't think HUF can compete. Not to mention it is all on I-70. Pretty easy drive.

Nice to see you here. I saw you on WANE...nice job.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9110 times:

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 7):
The total economic impact is in the billions, lol. I knew it was high, but that high in the billions amazed me.

I'm not surprised, given that SBN also has a bus terminal and (more importantly) the South Shore Line. Those probably generate more economic impact than the airport itself.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 9):
I'm not surprised, given that SBN also has a bus terminal and (more importantly) the South Shore Line. Those probably generate more economic impact than the airport itself.


I think FWA's direct impact is close to that of SBN's. I don't think the bus lines or the rail system really produces as much of an impact as you would think. They are not major operations really. Don't get me wrong, they are valuable but I don't think they share a huge chunk of the 432 million number.

No matter how you slice it, it is pretty sweet though!



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9038 times:

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 10):
I think FWA's direct impact is close to that of SBN

It is.

FWA: $367 million
SBN: $432 million
Difference: $65 million (about a 15% difference)

Very good results for FWA, which unlike SBN, doesn't have a rail/bus station to further bolster its economic impact on the area.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently onlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3270 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9012 times:

Does anybody remember what Air Wisconsin flew into Elkhart/Goshen (EKI) and was it an MX base?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineChase From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8926 times:

I live a couple miles from LAF...haven't heard anything in the news, except that the Chamber of Commerce or somebody created an online survey for local travelers, to see if it would be worth trying to get commercial service back. I filled it out, a few months ago, but haven't heard anything. I don't see it happening, but I gotta admit it would be nice. My past few flights have landed me at IND around 11pm, and I've really not been in the mood to then drive up to LAF.

User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 383 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8838 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 12):
Does anybody remember what Air Wisconsin flew into Elkhart/Goshen (EKI) and was it an MX base?

What time frame are looking for?

I highly doubt there was a maintainance base in Elkhart when Air Wiz had one in FWA.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8827 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 14):
I highly doubt there was a maintainance base in Elkhart when Air Wiz had one in FWA.

That Air Whisky MX base later became an S5 MX base and then a 9E MX base.

Speaking of Pinnacle, does anyone feel that, with Delta's sale of XJ to 9E, that 9E will then expand their FWA MX base (or at least funnel more jets through, such as CR9s)?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineBoiler905 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8820 times:

There were rumors that some aviation professors from Purdue were meeting with airlines in hopes of bringing commercial service back. I used to live close to LAF, until I recently moved for a new job, but I can tell you the biggest additions to that airport are the bus service to ORD (Express Air Coach), an entire new fleet of Cirrus SR20s and SR22s for the Purdue student pilots, and I believe they're selling their two King Air 200's for the new Embraer Phenom VLJ. Be on the lookout, spotters  


Boiler Up
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8801 times:

Quoting Boiler905 (Reply 16):
There were rumors that some aviation professors from Purdue were meeting with airlines in hopes of bringing commercial service back.

That would be pretty cool if LAF could get at least RJ service to DTW, ATL or ORD.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8798 times:

Quoting Boiler905 (Reply 16):
There were rumors that some aviation professors from Purdue were meeting with airlines in hopes of bringing commercial service back

I feel that LAF could support DL to DTW and/or MSP, as Subaru/Fuji Heavy Industries and Toyota (who share a car plant in Lafayette) both have contracts with DL, and DL runs DTW-NRT/HND/NGO. If they could get those companies plus others with operations in the area like Alcoa, Caterpillar, and Wabash National along with Purdue University students/faculty/staff to use such a route, it could succeed.

G4 to SFB and/or PIE could work as well, and I see such leisure routes as a good kickoff route/market stimulator.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8797 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
FWA: $367 million
SBN: $432 million
Difference: $65 million (about a 15% difference)

Very good results for FWA, which unlike SBN, doesn't have a rail/bus station to further bolster its economic impact on the area.

Hey, not bad at all! Do you have the figures for FWA when Kitty Hawk was active? The impact must have been higher then.

SBN and FWA have been very, very close in many aspects for a about two decades now. What would be nice is for FWA to see a cargo operation open up at the old Kitty Hawk ramp. As far as SBN goes I would like to see some MX operations return.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8794 times:

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 19):
As far as SBN goes I would like to see some MX operations return.

What MX ops did SBN have in the past?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8786 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 20):
What MX ops did SBN have in the past?

Several. C8, 9E and United Feeder Service (defunct) for sure. I think there was one more but I can't for the life of me remember. I think it was another Northwest Airlink carrier.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8781 times:

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 21):
What MX ops did SBN have in the past?

Ugh. lol. Maybe it was Express 1 and not Pinnacle. It is one of those days where I probable shouldn't be posting. Express 1 changed their name or merged with who??? I can 't remember lol.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8757 times:

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 22):
Maybe it was Express 1 and not Pinnacle. It is one of those days where I probable shouldn't be posting. Express 1 changed their name or merged with who??? I can 't remember lol.

Express Airlines I changed their name to Pinnacle Airlines in May 2002. They are one and the same.

I think 9E closed their MX base at SBN after the FWA base opened, but I'm not sure.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8759 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 12):
Does anybody remember what Air Wisconsin flew into Elkhart/Goshen (EKI) and was it an MX base?

I mostly recall Metros..maybe a few DAsh-7's


25 cleared2land : Thanks. I knew it was something along those lines, I just could not remember. I don't know why 9E left SBN, maybe FWA had a better offer, better faci
26 cleared2land : Anybody ever fly into 3C1? Fun little airport. RWY 03/12 is 2243' x 40'...very cool place to test your TO/LDG skills. That is the narrowest and shorte
27 FWAERJ : The old Air Whisky hangar at FWA opened for use after S5 consolidated MX with other RAH-owned airlines (RP, RW/YX) in IND. 9E wanted to consolidate t
28 Tan Flyr : I used to use that PIT flight..easy connections to the eastern cities. Depends on traffic, or course, but as far as FWA is concerned as DL pulls down
29 Post contains links FWAERJ : Here's some interesting news: EVV's longtime director Bob Working is retiring after 28 years. Doug Joest is temporarily taking his place at EVV until
30 cleared2land : Excellant question! I know that SBN would love an Eastern hub city such as PHL, JFK or EWR for International connections to Europe. I am torn between
31 FWAERJ : At the presentation I saw a few months ago, Mike Boyd feels the same way about FWA. He feels that PHL or EWR would be best-suited for FWA. I don't kn
32 aadfw : It would be nice to see AE start service from SBN to JFK..Maybe one day
33 FWAERJ : Eagle should start ORD and/or DFW from SBN first, and then give JFK a whirl.
34 cleared2land : If Eagle were to return to the Bend my money is on DFW, not ORD. I would love to see Eagle run both stations, but I don't think it is going to happen
35 skyrat : Let's hope not, for the sake of the pax and ground workers! I worked 9E flights for year and a half and never disliked an airline so much. I've worke
36 rampguy : The Indianapolis Airport Authority recently announced plans to to expand Hendricks County Airport (2R2) so that small jets can start flying in there.
37 FWAERJ : Are they referring to bizjets? That would be most likely. Was this at Regional Elite after they took over NW ground from 9E, or when 9E handled groun
38 rampguy : I 'm not sure about that. It's possible. The intention is for Hendricks County Airport to be a reliever airport for Indianapolis Int'l.
39 FWAERJ : With FX growing their ops at IND, which (I think) is limited to 3 parallel runways (2 today+1 future), it makes sense to start planning now. Maybe if
40 Indy : Mt. Comfort is already pretty big in my opinion. Its big enough that small corporate jets take off out of there. Saw one yesterday fly overhead. I'm
41 lexy : EVV is seeking the capability to become more "cargo" centric. They've built an "Internationally Compatible" Cargo building on the northeast side of t
42 FWAERJ : I remember reading rumors on the web around the same time G4 declined EVV's incentive package in favor of OWB, that FL was considering EVV. Shortly af
43 Post contains images exFWAOONW : That's what I remember flying into Elkhart, too. BAX had 2-3 times the operation of Kitty Hawk. I think those numbers would put FWA ahead of SBN. IIR
44 FWAERJ : Not to mention horrible CASM on the shorter hop... Why didn't NWA upgrade it to a DC-9-30? That would have had more than enough room for luggage, car
45 cleared2land : I wish we still had DC-9s, F100s and 737s flying into South Bend. I used to catch Delta 737-200/300 flights to CVG, USAir DC-9s and F100s to PIT and
46 rampguy : Probably a very slim chance. No passenger airline is going to scheudle a 757 into SBN or FWA. Not enough O/D.
47 cleared2land : Other topics on A.net have indicated that G4 will put the 757s in service on their longer segments prior to entering service to Hawaii. Since SBN has
48 FWAERJ : I wonder if this means the return of FWA-LAS as well, in addition to the 757 on GRR and SBN. FWA officials have hinted about trying to get G4 to brin
49 cleared2land : I think the 757s will be soley for Hawaii service. I don't think we will see them permanently serving the Lower 48. I have been trying to find the po
50 FWAERJ : They do get sticky. I remember that when G4 launched FWA-FLL, even cheaper fares from FL and WN at IND trashed the yields despite 80+% loads on the r
51 cleared2land : FWA is geographically screwed, in my opinion. If the drive to IND was like the drive to ORD from SBN, you may have lower leakage. I think FWA needs t
52 Tan Flyr : This is sort of the point I was making earlier in this thread. You have to find innovative ways to have agreements that for a X reduction in costs a
53 exFWAOONW : That's a good idea in theory, but you still have people who will drive 3 hours to avoid a 20 minute walk in a hub, or save 50 bucks on the fare. Until
54 Post contains images cleared2land : ! Very true. The question is how, really, to get the additional service. Most airports don't have an answer and when they do, the airlines just don't
55 FWAERJ : Heck, some people in Fort Wayne think that the two hour drive to IND, even with the pain in the butt that's the last 5 miles of I-69, is easier than
56 csturdiv : Me too. I am from EVV and live in the area of ORD. Only one non-stop service on MQ and the prices for a round trip ticket are usually in the $300s. I
57 FWAERJ : EVV's SCASD application (which was denied), in addition to pushing for FL to ATL and MCO, also had a backup plan for UA to ORD. So it's safe to say t
58 Post contains links Indy : According to an Indianapolis Star report the IND costs will be lower next year. The cost per passenger will be under $10. http://www.indystar.com/arti
59 cleared2land : I didn't realize it was so bad at EVV. I just checked their web site and they are down to about 16 flights a day! 32 if you look at arrivals plus dep
60 freakyrat : I'm sure after the new concourse is up and running and they get Allegiant moved over to it and tear down the "C" walkway flights may increase at SBN a
61 cleared2land : Phase I is coming along nicely. I have some recent pics that I can send you of the addition. I believe Phase I should be complete fairly soon. I real
62 cleared2land : I think you are reffering to one of my posts in another thread. The hangar West of the terminal is the former United Feeder Service hangar which is n
63 Post contains links smoot4208 : I think CLT-EVV/FWA/SBN would all work. However I don't see those as top destinations on US's list of cities. However, US has been in a "return to mar
64 cleared2land : Agreed. All three could fill a few RJ flights a day, no problem. I think they could fill a few flights to PHL as well.
65 freakyrat : For clearedtoland ref: SBN If they extend south off of hold room A they would interfere with the bus terminal. I think they will eventually extend the
66 Superfly : Sounds like a great idea. The South Shore Line already runs right next to GYY also. Would be great if both airports were linked by the South Shore Li
67 cleared2land : I personally would not worry about the bus station at all. That is pretty easy to move....not to mention that if they went South off of A Holdroom to
68 cleared2land : One thing to note is SBN is not, as of a month or so ago, committed to Dew Bridges, even though they are depicted in the renderings. They are one of a
69 cleared2land : I got a very short answer out of SBN's director today and It looks like there will be GPUs at each of the new gates, but he didn't know the exact ans
70 jetskipper : Can anyone post pictures of recent SBN terminal construction?
71 cleared2land : There are recent pics on SBN's facebook page. I can send you some via Email if you wish.
72 Post contains images cleared2land : Here is a crude overlay of what it will look like when the addition is complete.
73 TOMMY767 : Just went through IND last week on JFK-IND-LAX on DL (yes I know what your thinking, why no nonstop out of JFK? Long story.) It's the most modern airp
74 Indy : Glad you had a chance to check out IND. There are some really good places to eat air side. If people fly DL they should check if an IND connection is
75 freakyrat : i see from some recent pictures on the SBN Facebook page that they have already widened the tunnel out to the "A" holding room and separated the depar
76 Post contains links FWAERJ : Not trying to stir the pot, but I noticed this Indiana-related thing while checking the AirTran system route map. Under the alternate airports section
77 cleared2land : I wonder what that means. Maybe having FWA there via IND wasn't attracting as much business as they wanted.
78 FWAERJ : A lot of locals that I know here in Fort Wayne fly FL from IND, particularly to RSW and MCO. Many in Fort Wayne own vacation homes or condos in Ft. M
79 cleared2land : LOL. You can nix my guess then!
80 cleared2land : I did a tabulation and SBN's current commercial ops are; Monday - 31 in, 32 out Tuesday - 30 in, 31 out Wednesday - 30 in, 31 out Thursday - 30 in, 31
81 cleared2land : If SBN does go with the Radial Drive DewBridge for the 4 new bridges (A5 - A8) they will be compatible with the following aircraft; Dash 8/Q400 ATR 42
82 FWAERJ : For reference purposes, FWA's schedule for July is: Monday: 21 departures, 21 arrivals (AA, DL, UA, G4) Tuesday: 19 departures, 19 arrivals (AA, DL,
83 FWAERJ : WN also seems to be popular for Fort Wayne-area folks to go west and to Florida, but WN serving FWA (or SBN or EVV for that matter), IMO, will happen
84 cleared2land : I remember when SkyWay flew from SBN to MKE and DAY.
85 FWAERJ : Was SBN-DAY a tag-on to the MKE-SBN flight back when it was operated by B1900s?
86 FWAERJ : FWA just stated on their Facebook page that they're having record loads and to "book early for holiday travel". I've also been hearing that the yields
87 Indy : A4 and A5 are the international gates. A3 is at the very end of the concourse and I think only used for the last fight in and the first flight out so
88 FWAERJ : I thought I read recently that IND's concourse utilization was 70% B and 30% A, and that the IAA is subsidizing retail/restaurants on A for the reven
89 Indy : Remember a comment you made a little while back about a DL rumor and an enhanced focus city? That would go a long way to balancing the load between th
90 FWAERJ : Oh, I forgot about that. DL already has 8 gates on A and uses the 3 common use gates as well. This rumor must explain why the IAA hasn't released the
91 Post contains images Indy : If I had to guess I'd say you would have a shot with AUS, BDL, SEA and SFO. Maybe even MCO because it is a big DL city. They still serve RDU out of I
92 rampguy : I'd like to see more DL 757's out of IND on a regular basis. i.e. ATL/MSP/DTW. I'd also like to see mainline to LGA.
93 FWAERJ : Kinda hard for DL to compete with CR7s (and before that, CR2s) when FL is using 717s on the same route... DL should have at least up-gauged IND-LGA t
94 as777 : I am an example of this. All of my family lives in Elkhart and it is a lot more convenient for me to fly into SBN. However(until just recently) when
95 cleared2land : I don't really remember as it has been like 9 or so years since the service was chopped. I never really understood why DAY-SBN ever existed. The flig
96 Indy : I would agree that it is hard for DL to compete against FL when you put a CR2 up against a 717. But I don't think the traveling public will mind the
97 Post contains links FWAERJ : DL says "late 2010": http://www.delta.com/traveling_check...sky_club/program_updates/index.jsp If you look at the new LAX Sky Club, you will see the
98 jetskipper : The YX flight was routed MKE-SBN-DAY-SBN-MKE. I was working the ramp for Continental Express in SBN at the time, I can remember than on days when ther
99 FWAERJ : LAF is devising a study on whether commercial air service is viable again. That being said, I could see UA/AA to ORD, or more likely DL to DTW due to
100 Cubsrule : Like many peer airports (MKE, CMH, etc.), IND would probably be better served by AA to LHR.
101 Indy : I'm not sure I would agree with it. AA doesn't really have much of an operation out of IND. It would be as random as when DL started PIT-CDG. DL is t
102 Cubsrule : If it's the only TATL game in town, I don't know that the existing customer base matters much.
103 FWAERJ : As of last month, Delta was #1 in IND with a 25.7% market share. American, while in the Top 5 with DL, WN, FL, and US, only has an 8.8% share at IND.
104 Cubsrule : I don't disagree there, but wouldn't launching TATL from IND also improve AA's stature? That depends how far you have to go at CDG, doesn't it? Conne
105 Indy : There are a number of Indianapolis area business interests in the Paris area. Google some of the larger area businesses and then search for those sam
106 Cubsrule : I'd say CDG and LHR are pretty comparable. Connections can be pretty easy or they can be a real pain, but you are unlikely to find a connection as ea
107 FWAERJ : Allegiant said in their last earnings call that they plan on announcing some new routes in the next few weeks. It would be perfect timing for G4 to la
108 Post contains links FWAERJ : SBN is facing a budget issue, as revenue is down 11% over 2008, and is proposing a tax increase in their cumulative building fund as part of their 201
109 rampguy : I would love to see an airline do a non-stop IND-Europe. But I simply don't think that there would be enough O/D from IND to support it. Is AA and DL
110 Indy : There is enough O/D. I verified that a few years back withe the Commerce Department. It would have to be IND to a European hub though. Not enough for
111 Cubsrule : Do you know how it breaks down among various European cities? My sense (something you've sort of confirmed) is that Indy is a bit Paris-heavier than
112 Post contains images Indy : I didn't get specifics beyond Europe in general. If I had a guess I'd say heaviest travel to London and Paris. But that is probably an easy guess . I'
113 cleared2land : Does anybody have airside pictures of SBN, FWA or EVV? I want to see the ramp areas and airside views of the terminal buildings.
114 Post contains links FWAERJ : The Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette had an article today about FWA loads after airline cutbacks, confirming what we had expected: http://www.journalgazette
115 smoot4208 : I think G4 realistically the only airline they will add service in the near short term. I wouldn't be surprised to see LAS-FWA and AXA-FWA come back
116 cleared2land : I agree about G4, but not about AXA, lol. The runway is a tad short there.
117 smoot4208 : Sorry I meant AZA
118 Post contains images cleared2land : I figured that An interesting question poped into my head, though. Does anybody know what station in the G4 system has the shortest runway?
119 Post contains images FWAERJ : Me, too, but not everybody agrees: at a Mike Boyd conference recently in Fort Wayne (I was there), Mr. Boyd thought it FWA-LAS would return "when pig
120 Cubsrule : I haven't gone through all of their stations, but it's probably SMX at ~6300 feet. Keep in mind, though, that it's not very high (less than 300 feet
121 FWAERJ : There are four airports served by G4 with >7,000 foot main runways: -SMX Rwy 12/30 6,304 ft; service to LAS (shortest main runway in G4 system) -H
122 cleared2land : LOL. Didn't they revise the length to 11,981?
123 Post contains links cleared2land : More Delta Service Cuts (by azjubilee Aug 2 2010 in Civil Aviation) EVV-MEM is getting cut as well as TOL-DTW. From the above thread it looks like Saa
124 Post contains images bjorn14 : and Swine Flu
125 Post contains images cleared2land :
126 FWAERJ : I wonder if the next airport director at EVV will try to lure G4 from OWB... Hope so, too, but FWA-MSP is done for the season in September as schedul
127 cleared2land : I am amazed that MSP isn't year-round at FWA. However, I am not totally surprised about MEM being cut from EVV. I wonder of the MSP run out of FWA wi
128 FWAERJ : MSP was year-round from FWA under NWA. It wasn't until after the DL/NW merger that it first ended (September 2009) and then resumed (April 2009). The
129 cleared2land : Does anyone have last year's enplaned passenger count for EVV? I am looking at the requirements for Class C airspace right now and I think the only qu
130 freakyrat : "EVV-MEM is getting cut as well as TOL-DTW. From the above thread it looks like Saab elimination is part of the cause. I hope SBN's MSP run survives."
131 rampguy : Is AA and DL seriously considering starting service to LHR (AA) and CDG (DL) from IND? If so, do they have a target date to begin service and if so, w
132 FWAERJ : Unlike the FWA, IND, and SBN websites, no enplaned or deplaned passenger counts are listed on the EVV website @ evvairport.com, nor is their annual r
133 Post contains images Indy : Honesly I don't think we will know for sure until the date the route is announced officially. I think they will likely do a better job of keeping it
134 FWAERJ : Maybe DL is saving an IND-CDG announcement to coincide with the opening of the IND Sky Club?
135 cleared2land : Yeah, it is a little strange, isn't it? I have a feeling that if EVV were Class D right now, they wouldn't qualify for Class C due to their low IFR o
136 Post contains links FWAERJ : There's an excellent article in the Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette today about the FWA master plan, and it's worth a read: http://www.journalgazette.net/a
137 freakyrat : According to FlightAware statistics load factors 75-86% on SBN-CVG.
138 FWAERJ : FlightAware shows that load factors on FWA-CVG over the past 12 months are between 63-80% depending on operator. I know that the data skews on the lo
139 cleared2land : FWA and SBN are close in terms of pax movement. SBN has dropped a LOT since 1999. I remember then SBN had it's best year ever with over 990,000 total
140 exFWAOONW : I wonder, does that 990k number include charter flights or just scheduled airline flights. With all the charters to Notre Dame, SBN would have quite t
141 cleared2land : The number does include any charters. The overall impact of charters doesn't raise the total number that much at the end of the day because most of t
142 FWAERJ : Same here at FWA. Though I just read FWA's latest market share stats from April. G4 is down slightly, Eagle's up almost 7%, and DL is slightly up as
143 cleared2land : Current stats at SBN so far as of June 2010: G4 - 21.22% CO - 4.26% DL - 50.98% UA - 23.54%
144 FWAERJ : For that matter, let's look at FWA and IND. FWA: AA: 24.51% DL: 44.58% G4: 17.45% UA: 12.66% Charter flights: 0.71% IND: AA: 8.5% AC: 0.3% CO: 6.7% D
145 cleared2land : I don't know what is up with EVV. They don't seem to be as forthcoming as most airports when it comes to statistics and financial data. I bet they wo
146 Indy : There is something wrong at IND. I flew in and out of there recently and noticed a rather odd smell in the ground transportation building. The buildin
147 Post contains links FWAERJ : Haven't been there recently (actually, in years), but have you tried contacting the Indianapolis Airport Authority? http://www.indianapolisairport.co
148 Post contains links cleared2land : Construction pics of SBN's new Concourse A expansion: http://www.majoritybuilders.com/portfolio/institutional.html
149 Post contains links FWAERJ : Despite the DL MEM loss, EVV is experiencing a 10% pax increase according to Evansville's WFIE-TV (NBC): http://www.wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=130197
150 cleared2land : Not sure about the seats but I suspect they will keep them the same considering that all of the seats from C Concrouse and the existing A Councourse
151 Indy : I am no legal expert but I believe that would be criminal activity. I believe something like that would be covered by laws designed to deal with orga
152 cleared2land : These are harsh, and serious accusations against IND. Paying the airlines to stay away from competing airports is, by definition, a form of bribery,
153 FWAERJ : That's why I don't believe these accusations one bit. He's just mad that FWA doesn't have a network LCC a la WN, F9, FL, or NK (and has said it in th
154 Indy : If this guy is saying such things about IND wouldn't that be considered libel and slander? Much like with the idea of IND trying to bribe airlines I
155 Post contains images cleared2land : I couldn't have said it better myself!
156 Post contains links FWAERJ : Sort of IND-related, but IND's John Clark was one of the three finalists for ATL's new airport director, replacing Ben DeCosta: http://www.wsbtv.com/n
157 cleared2land : I wish them all the best of luck. ATL is a dream airport to work at.
158 Indy : When DL added the SLC service from IND it seemed a little unpredictable. By that I mean it was seasonal service (or so it appeared) to a hub. I think
159 FWAERJ : Not since the DL/NW merger happened. IND-SLC works for DL because of the post-merger combination of legacy DL SkyMiles and legacy NW WorldPerks frequ
160 Indy : I thought it was the largest outside of the hubs. I may be thinking of largest operation outside of the hubs. I forget.
161 Cubsrule : That and the westbound connections they can now handle over SLC rather than MSP. A fair number of cities in the midwest have seen increased SLC servi
162 Indy : Seeing the recent DL expansion announcement for RDU I have to wonder if they will now do anything with IND? Maybe bring back BDL, TPA and MCO? Think w
163 Cubsrule : What has changed in the past year that would permit them to make money to BDL? I don't see the point of MCO or TPA, either. With 2 LFCs on each route
164 cleared2land : Today's home-opener for Notre Dame brought some bigger birds in for SBN. DL ran MD-88s, MD-90s, DC9-50s and 737-800s to/from DTW.
165 freakyrat : The OAG just said that they (DL) were going to run the usual ex NW DC9-40's and DC9-50's Tomorrow. I guess the start of the Brian Kelley Era at Notre
166 cleared2land : Fun times at SBN when ND has home games. I was suprised at the amount of "heavier" metal that DL brought in this weekend. SBN hasn't really seen DL 7
167 freakyrat : SBN could probably support mainline on one R/T to DTW.
168 FWAERJ : Doesn't CO occasionally do EWR on Notre Dame football weekends as well?
169 freakyrat : Continental Express did EWR-SBN-EWR on ND football weekends several years ago.
170 cleared2land : No doubt. SBN had DC-9 service R/T to DTW for a long time. Granted, there were 340s in the mix, but mainline was the majority. Heck, even CVG was mai
171 FWAERJ : FWA was the same way up until 1998-2000. By my recollection, one could see UA mainline 732s to ORD, US F100s to PIT, NW DC-9s to DTW and MSP, and DL
172 freakyrat : I believe some mainline service will come back because the mainline jets are actually cheaper to run now than the 50 seater RJ's. There maybe less fre
173 bjorn14 : Anybody think Muncie/Anderson (MIE) could support commuter service to ORD/DTW?
174 cleared2land : Very slim possibility IMO. Even being a college town, there is too much competition among commerical airports as it is. Throw in the very close proxi
175 FWAERJ : LAF has a far better chance of getting service back than MIE, IMO.
176 cleared2land : That is even a long shot at this point, IMO.
177 Post contains links cleared2land : One incident, one crash in 24-hours in Greater-South Bend area: EKM Crash: http://southbendtribune.com/article/...0100909/News01/100909499/1129/News 3
178 Tan Flyr : Humm..UA mainline left FWA as far as ORD is concerned in 1980 as I recall..replaced with ZW dash-7's ( it may have been early 1981)..and the twice da
179 FWAERJ : I know a friend that worked for UA's (now-closed) FWA call center, at their BMI call center (not sure if it has closed too), and finally at UA World
180 cleared2land : I don't personally remember mainline in the late 90's at FWA on United or really anyone else. I think I remember some 9's up to DTW, but nothing else
181 EMB170 : That IMHO is the bottom line. Every time TATL service to IND is discussed, the fact remains that the 757 (even with winglets) cannot fly IND-CDG, and
182 FWAERJ : Quite correct. The 757-200 has a 4,100 mi range with winglets (subtract 200 mi w/o winglets). IND-CDG is 4191 mi. For reference purposes: IND-LHR is
183 exFWAOONW : Yes, UA mainline was greatly reduced in 1979 or so, as my dad got downgraded to PT before I was in high school because of the reduced schedule. And y
184 Tan Flyr : With all due respect, I lived there (FWA) in that time frame and I am VERY sure that by early 1981 at the last UA service to ORD and CLE was done. (
185 Post contains links Tan Flyr : http://www.departedflights.com/FWA81intro.html FWIW, found a link to the April 1981 OAG listing for FWA. The only UA mainline was to the DEN hub.NO OR
186 FWAERJ : NW deployed XJ Avro RJ85s to FWA, SBN, and other cities in the Midwest from DTW as the original DC-9-10 replacement. Those were later gradually repla
187 Post contains links FWAERJ : Looks like IND's John Clark is staying put in Indy, as he dropped his bid for the ATL job: http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...port-head-ends-bid-f
188 rampguy : Where is EKM?
189 FWAERJ : EKM = Elkhart, Indiana.
190 rampguy : Ok. Why would any airline consider Elkart when South Bend is right there?
191 freakyrat : It looks like a big day in SBN for General Aviation for the Notre Dame football game. They even had to park the UPS B757 on one of the taxiways.
192 cleared2land : Yeah, they do that nearly every home game with the 757(s). Last weekend they had only 67 transient acft on the ground at kickoff.
193 Post contains links FWAERJ : We haven't gotten to airport ads yet, so here we are: SBN ad on YouTube, focused on convenience: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdC5kGXHRa4 FWA ads on
194 Post contains links cleared2land : Anybody know anything about Roundball, LLC? They ran an MD-83 R/T from DTW to SBN on the 11th. I know it was due to the ND home game, but I don't know
195 Post contains links FWAERJ : Roundball LLC is the Detroit Pistons (hence why the DTW origin). The MD-83 operated by Roundball is an ex-China Eastern and Spirit Airlines plane (or
196 Post contains images bjorn14 : Not to be nit picky but if you use EKM please put a K in front of it because that is the FAA designation. The IATA is EKI. I've only known it as EKI
197 cleared2land : Good point. I remember when I was learning to fly there our instructors would always try to trick the new ground students about Elkhart's identifier.
198 bjorn14 : Back in the mid-80's ZW did have service to ORD (8x daily) but I believe that was because they had a maintenance base there IIRC
199 freakyrat : Total Count for Private aircraft is SBN for the Notre Dame-Michigan game last weekend was 110 at kickoff.
200 exFWAOONW : The Mesaba SAABs were there before the AVROs. I never worked on an AVRO.
201 Post contains links FWAERJ : A few IND-related things. Yeah, it's not my hometown airport, but since so many people in Fort Wayne drive to IND, I have to keep them in mIND: First
202 Post contains images exFWAOONW : You've gotta be kidding. Who wants the first image a visitor has of your town to be roadkill on the runway?
203 FWAERJ : MCO makes wildlife preserves at the airport work, and quite well. Though some of the other proposed uses (shopping centers, airport hotels) aren't bad
204 rampguy : Might I suggest that someone start a Part 2 thread as this one has now past 200 postings?
205 Post contains links FWAERJ : Your wish is my command: Indiana Aviation: Jet Age, Stage II (by FWAERJ Sep 19 2010 in Civil Aviation) Note to moderators: please lock this thread
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