LAXorLGWonDL From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 136 posts, RR: 1 Posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11367 times:
Good Morning Everyone,
We heard this on the BBC this morning and I had not seen it posted yet:
I guess anything is possible, but I have a hard time imagining standing up for an hour or so flight....especially if there's turbulence. I guess this makes FR even more like a bus...er, Greyhound? I think I'd heard a something about this a few months ago.
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11315 times:
Quoting LAXorLGWonDL (Thread starter): but I have a hard time imagining standing up for an hour or so flight
It's not that unusal on other forms of transport in the UK, people regularly stand up for their entire commute on the London Underground and I have once failed to find a seat between London and Birmingham on an intercity train......
BlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3160 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11282 times:
Not going to happen, ever, case closed, thread over, end of yet another round of free publicity for Ryanair (I wish).
Why?
-Maximum certified passenger count for the 737-800: 189.
-Current seating configuration for FR 737-800: 189.
So net passenger gain with these "stand-up" seats is (drum roll) 0!
And on top of that, there are requirements over the quantity of G force generated during a crash landing that passengers need to be able to survive. Not having a seat cushion makes it impossible to meet these requirements.
Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2803 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11268 times:
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2): And on top of that, there are requirements over the quantity of G force generated during a crash landing that passengers need to be able to survive. Not having a seat cushion makes it impossible to meet these requirements.
Survivability is one of the many things that is unbundled in a FR fare.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11254 times:
Quoting LAXorLGWonDL (Thread starter): but I have a hard time imagining standing up for an hour or so flight..
Well the trick is getting the regulatory bodies to imagine it. First, there is the issue with finding a "seat" that will meet regulations. The second, and probably stickier issue, is exits. Ryanair already has 189 seats per plane, which I believe is the maximum certificated number for the 73H. So the plane will have to be recertified, but it could be a real problem if they need to add extra or larger exits to the plane. I would have to think that such a modification would be possible, but expensive. My guess would be that they only need to recertify it for more occupants, without adding exits, but I could be wrong.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Tobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 649 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11253 times:
I'd like to think this is just another one of FR's usual publicity gags. I just cannot see any reason why offering "standing seats" would be viable, as FR won't be able to put more than today's 189 pax onboard. They would have to invest much money for this new "seats", and even claim flying would become even more cheaper. Also, FR would have to give up its fleet commonality, as there would be a short-haul subfleet fitted with these 10 rows of srtanding seats.
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11243 times:
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2): Maximum certified passenger count for the 737-800: 189.
-Current seating configuration for FR 737-800: 189.
So net passenger gain with these "stand-up" seats is (drum roll) 0!
True , but although they could not carry any more pax if the 'stand up' seats weigh less than conventional seats they may still save on fuel burn and thus on money .
I think the next part is the more compelling argument .
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2): And on top of that, there are requirements over the quantity of G force generated during a crash landing that passengers need to be able to survive.
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
AYA333 From Finland, joined Aug 2008, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11148 times:
Until now, I´ve only been worried about legroom when flying. But after this as a person who is 190 cm tall I would also have to be worried about headroom as well
I´m certain that they will do this sooner or later. Unfortunately.
IH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1120 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10955 times:
With regard to safety regulations, I wonder if they could be changed in relation to standing passengers - if passengers are standing up already, might it take less time to evacuate?
If there was no interest or no possibility of this happening, surely we wouldn't have seen several concepts of standing accommodation released already...
What, so standing up costs £5 more than they often charge you to sit down? How do you make 'free' cheaper?
Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 1): I have once failed to find a seat between London and Birmingham on an intercity train......
I may beat you there. Durham to Oxford, delayed, over 5 hours. There were so many people standing in the vestibule of the train that it was even impossible to sit down on the floor!
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
parapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1320 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10718 times:
doesn't this latest press release do no more than cover up the fact that he has doubling of charges for checked in baggage - just for the holiday months please note- came into force today. "Bog" airlines is only cheap if you work every angle of the maize system of charges he has set up. If you book early and take only hand luggage,priny you own ticket and use the right charge card - it's good value.
If you are a family of 4 with childrens luggage to match and not totally web savy and want to avoid horrendous queues and people.BA is often no more than 115% more expensive and guess what you and your family will enjoy your flight as part of your holiday -now whats the price of peace of mind and enjoyment - it's personal I guess.
A offensive 1970's British put down on Ireland brought shamefully into 2010. Comments like this are really unnecessary and kill your arguement totally.
Quoting parapente (Reply 11): BA is often no more than 115% more expensive
So, more than twice as expensive is OK for a family of four in a recession?
DogBreath From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 240 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10500 times:
Quoting parapente (Reply 11): If you are a family of 4 with childrens luggage to match and not totally web savy and want to avoid horrendous queues and people.BA is often no more than 115% more expensive and guess what you and your family will enjoy your flight as part of your holiday -now whats the price of peace of mind and enjoyment - it's personal I guess.
And that is why we live in a democratic society, and can make choices that suit our particular needs and desires. No-one holds a gun at our heads to fly Ryanair. In this part of the world we're very lucky to have lots of choice.
I can't understand the mentality of some on here that have to denigrate FR for what it is. Get over it! I've said it before on here that I don't eat at fast food chains but prefer to eat out at more expensive restaurants that provide a better service for a higher price. But I certainly have no reason or need to denigrate McDonalds or KFC, etc for what they provide. In fact good luck to them as they provide a great product for a large part of society, employ a lot of staff, is a good investment for shareholders and contributes to the economy. A bit like the LLC model.
If anyone on here seriously thinks that MoL is 'really' thinking of standing room on his fleet then I shake my head in despair. The media are falling over themselves to make a story,and it's free publicity for FR. But if it were true, why get excited and stressed about it, make a choice and fly with someone else. Simple!
LAXorLGWonDL From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 136 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10496 times:
I have many colleagues who end up flying FR for work or personal travel ... for a variety of reasons, including our proximity to STN or the airports they do fly to are close to wherever they're going, they are on FR. Me personally... if going out of STN, I try for Germanwings or EZY and stay away from FR.
It comes down to what we're willing/not willing to pay for...of course..
LMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2560 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10416 times:
This was mentioned before. IIRC these seats are already approved by Civil Aviation Authorities and images have existed on line for many months.
Max seating capacity will never be exceeded by existing rules, which can be changed. But the space created can be used by Ryanair to install a mini casino or something on those lines. So, yes, I can see it happenning.
Another good reason not to fly Ryanair. I want my planes to look like planes not cruise liners or hotels.
shamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4041 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10290 times:
Why do any of you take this nonsense seriously? This is another of Michael O'Leary's "radical" proposals that he airs maybe every couple of months that invariably get him in the papers and increases media exposure for FR.
It's like the pay to Piss story.. how many times have you heard that one now?
Stop taking this rubbish seriously - you are only furthering FR's game by paying this obvious rubbish any credence.
The Regulators will find a way to disallow this - you can be sure of it.
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
lh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2256 posts, RR: 17 Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10185 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2): Not going to happen, ever, case closed, thread over, end of yet another round of free publicity for Ryanair (I wish).
Why?
-Maximum certified passenger count for the 737-800: 189.
-Current seating configuration for FR 737-800: 189.
So net passenger gain with these "stand-up" seats is (drum roll) 0!
And on top of that, there are requirements over the quantity of G force generated during a crash landing that passengers need to be able to survive. Not having a seat cushion makes it impossible to meet these requirements.
Exactly!!! Seems like user here have more brains than the FR marketing department!
Another poor approach by the cattle class carrier to gain some more momentum in the LCC market.
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
bestwestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6510 posts, RR: 58 Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10139 times:
Quoting lh526 (Reply 18): Seems like user here have more brains than the FR marketing department!
Nope - a major objective of any marketing department is to get as much free publicity as possible. This is one example of that.
However, most people these days just go 'whatever' when they hear the next FR story. The boy who cried wolf is very apt with all of Michael's whinging these days.
There was an interview on BBC News with Simon Calder, respected travel journalist with the Independent. He basically said the same thing - plane is licensed for 189 people, no more. This is just free publicity for FR, in the same vein as the pay-per-toilet that will never happen.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19813 posts, RR: 56 Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10049 times:
Quoting AYA333 (Reply 8): Until now, I´ve only been worried about legroom when flying. But after this as a person who is 190 cm tall I would also have to be worried about headroom as well
Good point - unless they get rid of the overhead bins, a lot of people would have a problem standing up on planes.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
PlaneWasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 442 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9978 times:
Maybe the 737-800 is certified to 189 because with only seats, there simple wasn't room for more passengers? If they can evacuate 200 passengers within the time limit recertification for more passengers might be fairly easy and inexpensive?
And I think the passengers will be standing but strapped into some kind of structure, to comply with other safety requirements.
LMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2560 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9952 times:
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 17): Quoting LMML 14/32 (Reply 15):
IIRC these seats are already approved by Civil Aviation Authorities
Since when?
I am pretty sure something on these lines was mentioned during the A380 buildup. I think Corsair wanted to install these seats to be able to carry 800+ pax. I thought it was a strange idea for a long haul plane but I am certain I read this somewhere 5 or 6 years ago.
25 utapao: If not mistaken, JAL considered this on domestic flights many, many years ago...like in the '80s? Believe it has even been discussed here before? I a
26 Pe@rson: Don't know about JAL, although I can see it in Japan, but Spring made headlines about it last year. Then FR coincidentally and very quickly started t
27 Tango-Bravo: Do I see yet another money-grubbing fee coming? ...a charge of, perhaps, EU25.00 to refrain from throwing away one's money in FR's flying casino? As
28 Viscount724: The original 737-900 had room for about 3 more rows of seats than the -800 but was also restricted to the same total 189 seating as the -800 due to e
29 fca767: Except that, at least with a bus, you can get off and get a drink of water/food if it's delayed on the ground for 6 hours! imagine standing up inside
30 Lufthansa: There is zero chance of this actually eventuating. It would stuff up their model. How would they push trolley's down the isle if everybody is standing
31 babybus: If it's only a 50-75 min flight I don't mind standing up, as long as the fare was cheaper! I've been standing up during a landing before now and it wa
32 BMI727: Bingo, so if Ryanair wants to add seats, they will have to add a door. And that, I suspect, will be quite expensive for existing aircraft. So, based
33 TFFIP: Most of the money anyone pays for cheap fares is taxes and i don't see the tax department foregoing taxes because someone is standing or sitting or ha
34 delimit: I'll say this...Ryanair's PR department definitely earn their salaries.
35 Goblin211: That is so ridiculous in my opinion! How could they make someone stand up on a plane especially during the takeoff roll? No matter how you look at it
36 fca767: But then again we could all make this stuff up, I'm sure they like to think they're good, with all their Boardroom meetings though
37 jamies80085: personally, if the fair was cheaper on a one hour flight, I'd be happy to stand, it would be a novelty. I don't quite see however how the "standing ro
38 ADent: There is a picture of a concept in this older article: http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1...ng-designs-may-not-be-too-far-away
39 ScottB: * Extra fee to be able to choose the gender of the FA...
40 aa43e: Frankly I think it's a very accurate statement that brings light to the fact that Ryanair is at it's heart no better than a second rate bus company i
41 Logos: LOL! I saw this dug up again and wondered how such "seats" could possibly be crashworthy. The other issue as to what it gets them in terms of passeng
42 fca767: Silence of the Lambs Chair, Think I'll Take the Train instead
43 AirframeAS: That is not the point. What you do not understand is the fact that when an emergency arises, pax has to GET OUT of the airplane in an emergency. This
44 bestwestern: Frankly, its an offensive statement, and shame on you for raising it twice.
45 1stfl94: Just watched ITV's Tonight doing a piece on LCCs. MoL did mention the seats and the standing room but didn't the mention the crucial partners in this,
46 bestwestern: Why should Ryanair worry about that.
47 steeler83: Good one! Sorry, but this has to be about the dumbest idea I've heard of. You couldn't pay me to take such a flight. Thanks, but I'll take my cushy s
48 Bennett123: Not sure if he can proceed with this without support from Boeing.
49 N1120A: And the space would be eaten up by the door row Fuel burn has nothing to do with it. I'm just guessing that the quoted post meant 15% more, or 115% o
50 kiwiandrew: What ? Saving money has nothing to do with this idea ? Ryanair has a history of taking ( or threatening ) measures to save weight : non-reclining sea
51 bestwestern: Ryanair average fares are considerably lower than any other European airline - even with all the 'extra fees'
52 lucky777: Why does anybody bother paying attention to the bogus, tin-foil hat ideas Ryanair is infamous for that never come to fruition. These guys act as if th
53 JHCRJ700: I couldn't find a seat from Hammersmith to Kings Cross. That was quite the long ride! As for Ryanair- It will never happen. It is just too dangerous.
54 kingfriday013: Last time I took Greyhound, I got a new leather seat, a brand new Prevost Car X3-45 motorcoach, a power outlet at my seat, and free wireless internet
55 spacecadet: It looks like a joke, is what it looks like. It's like, "how can we most effectively decapitate our passengers in the event of an accident?" This sea
56 Tango-Bravo: Ummm.... what "commitment" does FR have to their customers....other than to devise new ways to shake them down for more and more fees? Who knows...pe
57 rolypolyman: Yeah, good luck with the standing configuration in an garden-variety hard landing. Who will pay for the injuries? This sounds like a PR stunt of some
58 Packcheer: Imagine how awkward it would be standing next to someone for a whole flight..... Think about being stuck in an elevator with someone standing right ne
59 gemuser: I really, really can't see how this can meet the vertical G loading case for seat certification. So I guess it is really just another FR beat up. Gem
60 yodobashi: It's all very well saying they'll put standing places at the back but they couldn't do it acorss the fleet - who would want to stand for 4 hours on so
61 Lufthansa: Guys it gets worse. Now tiger airways has picted up on the stunt and realised its own version of the same crap to the media! They even used the same i
62 Lufthansa: now....waiting for somebody at Spirit to issue a press release.......
63 RussianJet: I can't believe this is being discussed again. 189. That's it. ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY NINE. End of story. Can we stop it now please?
64 LIFFY1A: I can't believe it's being discussed either. Michael O'Leary could hold a press conference saying he's putting seats on the wings and you'll still ge
66 Pe@rson: Quite agree. The best thing to do, if you don't want FR to succeed in its desire for considerable free publicity, is to say nothing about it.
67 TristarAtLCA: So true. However, I must chastise you for forgetting the obligatory: 'it'll never get past the regulators'
68 ScottB: Considering their MILF and MUFF fares, they'd be the ones I'd expect to be offering "head in the head."
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Exactly!!! Seems like user here have more brains than the FR marketing department!
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