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Pinnacle Buys Mesaba, Trans States Buys Compass  
User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 645 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11855 times:

Just was announced at HQ. Press release conference at 9am local time. New service agreements signed with delta for 12 more years on the CR9 and CR2's through 2017.

Wingnut


Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePennPal From United States of America, joined May 2004, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11867 times:

Just heard this from my son who flies CRJ 200s for Mesaba. Hope it will be a happy marriage. Funny how Mesaba is phasing out its SF340 fleet, and Pinnacle has 66 of them!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pinnac...s-Corp-iw-2555796565.html?x=0&.v=1


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3109 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11847 times:

So now DL's wholly owned subsidarys are Compass and Comair?


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3830 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11827 times:

Quoting PennPal (Reply 1):
Funny how Mesaba is phasing out its SF340 fleet, and Pinnacle has 66 of them!

Uhh, last I checked Pinnacle wasnt flying any saabs around.. and hasnt for a looong time.


User currently offlineGEG2RAP From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11763 times:

Pinnacle has them via their Colgan subsidiary

User currently offlinenwa757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11765 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 3):
Uhh, last I checked Pinnacle wasnt flying any saabs around.. and hasnt for a looong time.

But Colgan does and Pinnacle owns Colgan.


User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11755 times:

Compass is also being sold to transstate


Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineFLYjoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11749 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 2):
So now DL's wholly owned subsidarys are Compass and Comair?

No, Compass is being sold to Trans States. So Comair is now the only wholly owned.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...es-prnews-3345149285.html?x=0&.v=1


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11729 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 3):

Colgan does

Quoting PennPal (Reply 1):

Plan is to have two airlines.
9E for all jets
XJ for all props. Also it sounds like 9E be keeping the XJ SF3s but will still be pulled from the DCI fleet.



yep.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11706 times:

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 6):

speaking of CP


What happened to the other thread that talked about both airlines?



yep.
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12256 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11697 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting FLYjoe (Reply 7):
So Comair is now the only wholly owned.

They still own Regional Elite also...for now



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3109 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11698 times:

Quoting FLYjoe (Reply 7):
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 2):
So now DL's wholly owned subsidarys are Compass and Comair?


No, Compass is being sold to Trans States. So Comair is now the only wholly owned.

My question is, does DL need a little cash, which is why they are selling Mesaba and Compass(Like what they did with ASA), and why not sell Comair as well?

I'm a bit surprised to see DL sell Compass, as NW paid money to buy the certificate.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineCrosscheck007 From Poland, joined Jan 2010, 278 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11643 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):
Plan is to have two airlines.
9E for all jets
XJ for all props. Also it sounds like 9E be keeping the XJ SF3s but will still be pulled from the DCI fleet.

Poor XJ. Where does that leave Colgan?

Cheers,

007

P.S. And POOR Compass! Sad!  



Je l'attends pas un homme. J'apporte le parti, j'apporte le feu d'artifice.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7367 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11629 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 11):
My question is, does DL need a little cash,

Very little if they do. To sell two airlines for $82 million total is a firesale. What did XJET IPO for back in the day? For that little my guess is that DL just wanted the A/C debt off their balance sheet or didn't want the responsibility of running them.

If they can find a buyer for Comair (Skywest probably) it will be next.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11616 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 10):

They still own Regional Elite also...for now

I think he means airlines.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 11):

My question is, does DL need a little cash, which is why they are selling Mesaba and Compass(Like what they did with ASA), and why not sell Comair as well?

Delta is looking to get any cash anyway they can, but this isn't one of these deals like EV was. (ie we have to sell or we are going into BK)
Plus all DL is owns all the aircraft*

9E will be taking over the leases on XJs SF3
No one wants OH. Delta has been trying to sell them for years(same time as EV)

Quoting Crosscheck007 (Reply 12):

Poor XJ. Where does that leave Colgan?

merged into Mesaba



yep.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11575 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):

Very little if they do. To sell two airlines for $82 million total is a firesale. What did XJET IPO for back in the day? For that little my guess is that DL just wanted the A/C debt off their balance sheet or didn't want the responsibility of running them.

Well DL dumped EV for 400M IIRC
and Delta is keeping the CR9/CR2 and E75 fleets(sub-leasing them to XJ and CP)

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):

If they can find a buyer for Comair (Skywest probably) it will be next.

They have been looking for 5 years now LOL



yep.
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11551 times:

This is horrible news. Of all airlines to be sold to... we get Pinnacle? Great.

IMO Comair will be left to die on the vine and Skywest will buy Mesa out of Ch11.

L1011 - where are you getting the idea that the saabs will be retained?


User currently offlineca2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11492 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):

speaking of CP


What happened to the other thread that talked about both airlines?

Yeah I can't seem to find it either, was it closed?

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 11):
My question is, does DL need a little cash, which is why they are selling Mesaba and Compass(Like what they did with ASA), and why not sell Comair as well?

Comair's costs make it unattractive to potential buyers.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11485 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 16):

L1011 - where are you getting the idea that the saabs will be retained?

From the PNCL investor call. If i understand it right the XJ SF3s will replace the 9L SF3s. The 9L SF3s are older.



yep.
User currently offlinecentralma From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11448 times:

The thread that said something like "Delta sells Mesaba and Compass" must have been deleted, it referenced the Delta press release. It was the first thread on this topic. (another thread has appeared with the title too, but it's the very first one I was talking about that has disappeared).

here's the link from the Delta. com Newsroom section, dated July 1, 2010:

Delta Air Lines Reaches Definitive Agreements to Sell Mesaba, Compass Airline Subsidiaries

Customers to experience seamless transition with no expected changes in flight schedules or locations served


http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1063

[Edited 2010-07-01 08:06:00]

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7367 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11408 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
Well DL dumped EV for 400M IIRC
and Delta is keeping the CR9/CR2 and E75 fleets(sub-leasing them to XJ and CP)

Then it makes even less sense, but I guess it's worth so little because the contracts aren't profitable and there are no real assets in these companies.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 16):
IMO Comair will be left to die on the vine and Skywest will buy Mesa out of Ch11.

Good predictions. Don't forget Republic, they are a wild card.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11363 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):

Good predictions. Don't forget Republic, they are a wild card.

For who? Mesa? im not sure why OO or RH would want them......hate to say it this way but it would be better for OO and RH to let Mesa die and OO/RH to step in to fill the void.
And if your talking about OH then RH or OO would be pretty stupid to by them. If OH was parted out 9E and OO would be the winners in that one.....and RH wouldn't be getting any aircraft if they went of OH.



yep.
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11302 times:

WOw... I hadn't made it to the company website until just now. There is a long list of FAQs (all written from the Pinnacle perspective) and it addresses the saab issue. That just adds even MORE salt to the wound. This webcast conference call shall be interesting since it is open to Mesaba employees as well. I hope the outrage and disgust is channeled professionally. =)

[Edited 2010-07-01 08:25:16]

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11273 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 22):
There is a long list of FAQs (all written from the Pinnacle perspective) and it addresses the saab issue.

Did I have it right or did i misunderstand?
The way i got it was they will keep the XJ SF3s but the DCI contract will be just like DL pulling them 2 a mon. till the end of 2012. Then after the 9E/9L/XJ will shift them to other carriers, but they will be staying. Did i get that right Azj?



yep.
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11208 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 22):
I hope the outrage and disgust is channeled professionally. =)

Our crew plans on doing a two engine taxi with the apu on today here at Compass. All in the name of saftey of course.



Long Live Memphis!
25 kgaiflyer : Compass *can't possibly* get any worse. So *anything* Trans States does will be an improvement.
26 SNCntry32 : We could have been sold to Pinnacle so I will agree with you there that it could be worse, but can Compass get any worse? Yes and it is because of th
27 FWAERJ : What about Republic buying out OH? No one has mentioned that as a possibility, and DL has said after the merger that they want to go to only 4 region
28 Deltal1011man : but why would RH want OH? super high cost, and Delta would like keep at least the CR7/9s. If DL closes OH they will lease the OH fleet to other carri
29 cv640 : Interesting. When I was hired by Express Airlines I, now Pinnacle Airlines, all my friends at Mesaba said they would be merged. I thought they were nu
30 cv640 : No offense, but no one wants to buy Comair. Its fleet is the oldest of the RJs, the most senior employee group, and a majority of 50 seaters. It is to
31 Crosscheck007 : Word is (yes just word, i.e. rumor, i.e. absolutely and completely unbacked by any facts what-so-ever other than word of mouth) that DL will be announ
32 MSPNWA : Wow, what a firesale. I feel for the XJ guys. First it was all the announced cuts to the SF34, and now they get bought by Pinnacle. That's just . . .
33 BHMDiversion : Sorry to the Moderators on the earlier post - my apologies to everyone. Remember, Northwest bought the certificate from Independence Air only for $2 m
34 JBo : The press release stated Compass and Mesaba will remain headquartered in MSP. How long it stays that way will remain to be seen. Nothing. Delta is ma
35 Avconsultant : Colgan has a nice niche with their subsidized flying and CO contract. Exactly!! OH only hope is Don Bornhorst, the former Prez and VP. He grew up nea
36 Alias1024 : Down.........way, way down. Compass would have been better off at Pinnacle. Trans States is crap. Not their employees, just their management. Does th
37 MSPNWA : The name does a ring a bell, but I couldn't remember why. So I withheld judgment until I knew more. I know I didn't have a good feeling about it, tha
38 Avconsultant : The one issue DL faces is the agreement to employ 10,000 people in the state of Minnesota due to the failed overhaul facility the state built for NW
39 azjubilee : They will keep the Mesaba HDQ in MN for at least 2 years though some jobs may migrate to MEM sooner.
40 KingAir200 : After the back and forth between XJ and 9E for so many years, I can't imagine that would be a good combo as far as relations between the two work grou
41 Crosscheck007 : I didn't even happen to think about that, that might be pretty ugly. Is there any word on whether the XJ crews will be offered places at 9E if they d
42 FlyASAGuy2005 : Sure they can use the cash but when you look @ it, this is a great move (businesswise; I actually feel for the employees being shuffled around like t
43 azjubilee : This deal wasn't done because DL needed cash. Why? BECAUSE DELTA IS PROVIDING THE CASH FOR THE TRANSACTION!!! How stupid (or brilliant) is that? The M
44 kgaiflyer : Just a guess. Probably use them over at UAX to accompany Republic's S5 service. S5 planes -- with the ExPlus option -- have become *very* popular wit
45 floridaflyboy : The XJ crews are going to be more interested in where their crew bases are located than what equipment they're flying. If the jets all go to 9E and X
46 Crosscheck007 : They can't. The 175 would violate UA's scope clause. Cheers, 007
47 cv640 : Everything stated above is correct. Cash wasn't the issue. Anderson has never liked WO's and figured this was an easy way out. The airlines really ow
48 KingAir200 : Even if AX wanted to, with DL owning the E75s, I don't think that would happen. With the DC-9-30s also leaving the fleet, I don't think DL could affo
49 kgaiflyer : Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that limit Trans States to 74 seats per frame? If that is the case, then they need only remove one seat, and the
50 Crosscheck007 : AX, like all other UAX carriers, is limited to 70 seats. CP 175s have 76 seats, btw. Cheers, 007[Edited 2010-07-01 13:28:49]
51 KingAir200 : 76. 12 up front and 64 in the back.
52 Crosscheck007 : That's what I meant, typing fast isn't my forte. Cheers, 007
53 cv640 : The EMB are still leased thru Delta and will onlu be used for Delta flights. If they want to operate them for someone else, they'd need to buy them an
54 apodino : Very interesting developments today on this front, but I don't think this is necessarily a good thing. Mesaba and Compass get bought by arguably two o
55 crjfixer : I am one of the few that see this as a good thing. Does not appear that there will be any aircraft parked and i have heard nothing of layoffs associat
56 BMI727 : I didn't know that this was the prevailing sentiment about them. My one experience with them was actually very good. Anyway, it is a bit sad to see M
57 nwaesc : That was pretty much the reaction I got from the first XJ crew I saw this morning. "Meanwhile the roller coaster ride for employees continues." LOL&g
58 SNCntry32 : It is very sad to see Mesaba finally, go per say. Such a rich history. Whats left in Minnesotas aviation history? Sun Country? Although, Im pretty ups
59 MSPNWA : After this all goes down, likely not much except SY, if they're still in business. We're losing everything is such a short time.
60 Deltal1011man : Nothing, They will fly for DCI. Trans States did NOT buy any E75s. They pretty much got an opps. cert. and the employees. That's about it. DL owns th
61 Post contains images AirDX : I have to imagine that the main reason Trans States Holdings bought Compass was to diversify their flying as a safety net. With the exeption of three
62 ny-jfk-lga : Since Trans States will own Compass Airlines, does that mean the future MRJ's will be flying at Compass?
63 HermansCVR580 : Now I don't know how all the pilot contract thing works but could TSA's MRJ's be used as the DC-9-51 replacement? One thing I have learned with Delta,
64 floridaflyboy : Not without a massive change in DL's mainline pilot scope. Delta cant just do that. Probably not going to happen.....
65 AirDX : Could be, but some in the know aren't even sure the MRJ's will ever be delivered to TSH. The company may have just taken advantage of the discounted
66 Deltal1011man : Here is Delta's scope 40. “Permitted aircraft type” means: a. a propeller-driven aircraft configured with 70 or fewer passenger seats and with a
67 azjubilee : NWAESC - the Pinnacle pilot CBA is indeed amendable and Colgan is creating their first one. The three pilot groups (Pinnacle, Mesaba and Colgan) will
68 CVG747 : Incorrect, Delta owns Regional Elite!!
69 nwaesc : Thanks for the info/follow up!
70 floridaflyboy : What are you talking about?? That is exactly what he said.
71 FlyASAGuy2005 : They can't and won't. Umm, that's pretty much what he said.
72 FlyASAGuy2005 : I don't follow. DL is investing in the parent companies so they can afford to buy Mesaba and Compass ffrom them? I'm very interested in this detail.
73 deltal1011man : DL is pretty much giving them loans to buy the airlines(if i understand it right) So DL is acting as the bank for 9E and I believe Trans states as we
74 azjubilee : Yes, DL is financing the deal. In other words, DL is loaning the money to the buyer for their sale. Kind of like loaning someone the money, with inter
75 Avconsultant : I think he was referencing an earlier comment that Comair owned Reginal Elite. He was clariying Delta owned Comair and Regional Elite as separate LLC
76 FlyASAGuy2005 : Things that make you go "hmmm"....
77 Post contains images JBo : Reading Kai's original quote: ... it's clear to me that "They" was referring to Delta and not Comair. Some people just mis-read their pronouns.
78 PWMRamper : Air Wisconsin NEEDS to do something. Their current contract with USAirways runs out in 2015, and they've been trying to secure additional flying for
79 azjubilee : Easy there... I believe daddy Delta owns the 900s and 700s and many of the 200s operated at Comair. So... if anyone were to buy Comair in whole, it wo
80 Post contains links Avconsultant : Pinnacle passed on buying Comair. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...ine-considered-buying-Comair?GID=0 Comair owns all of thier -100's and a smal
81 Post contains images KaiGywer : Correct
82 floridaflyboy : No, Comair's are 900s as well. AC is the only operator of the 705 designation.
83 PWMRamper : They are 900s only certified to 76 seats...which is what I thought the point of the 705 was...a way around Scope Clauses. 900s are certified to 90. O
84 dsuairptman : The 900 and the 705 are the exact same aircraft and likewise have the same preformance specs. I don't belive the 705 moniker had anything to do with
85 JBo : I'm fairly certain the difference between the -900 and -705 is exactly the same as the difference between the -200 and the -440. And the -440s have b
86 FlyASAGuy2005 : The 705 was developed specifically to alleviate scope issues as far as max seating goes. It were originally certified to 76 mix seating of 10 business
87 PWMRamper : Does Mesa own their own 900's? If ZW were to buy Mesa, would they be able to shift any 900 flying to UA? UA's scope clause allows them to replace the
88 BMI727 : Would that still be allowed, since UA retired the 146's several years ago, and there have been no large replacements?
89 PWMRamper : I don't have the scope clause word for word, but the way I recall it, it lists the tail numbers for the 146's, and says those, or equivalent aircraft
90 LAXintl : Here is the section that covers the AWAC BAe-146: 1-K-22 “Small Jets" means (a) Jet Aircraft that are certificated in the United States of America f
91 PWMRamper : Which makes sense, but Comair/Mesaba/ASA/SkyWest are limited to 76 seats on Delta, and they fly the 900. Is it because the Delta scope clause reads d
92 BMI727 : I think that wording depends on the airline. It seems that United uses certified capacity, while Delta's and some others use seats fitted. I don't se
93 Post contains images Revelation : What does "WO" mean? Bizarre indeed. Between the bizarreness of DL lending people money to buy it assets (they really have the money for that and cou
94 nwaesc : "Wholly Owned."
95 LAXintl : Well for starters the -705 is certified for only 75, so if you want 84 on there it would be a new type-certificate. Likely only a paper process, but
96 sunking737 : Delta is acting as the bank in this deal. I see nothing wrong with it. I'm sure this goes on daily in a lot of business deals. Many companies are loan
97 BMI727 : I don't see the issue with it either. Boeing benefits a lot from the Export Import Bank and I think that they help finance some deals themselves.
98 OOer : Is Delta trying to raise some cash for a potential purchase of Alaska Airlines? I don't know about any of you...but that's the first thing that came t
99 BD338 : [quote=OOer,reply=99]Is Delta trying to raise some cash for a potential purchase of Alaska Airlines? I don't know about any of you...but that's the fi
100 apodino : Management at ZW seems to be on a blame the pilot contract for everything mode these days. When asked about these deals struck, ZW management is clai
101 MSPNWA : I can't speak for others, but the issue I see is that it clarifies the purpose of the sales for DL. It clearly wasn't for cash. Cash might have been
102 FlyASAGuy2005 : DL's scope clause is worded differently. I'm pretty sure it was a compromise to allow the 900 in the fleet. ------------------ On a brighter not, ZW
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