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20 Sukhoi Superjets For Alitalia  
User currently offlinesibille From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 479 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22030 times:

It would be the first Western National airlines order!!!
No confirmation from the airlines yet.
Who's next ?


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-as-customer-for-20-superjets.html

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11615 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21938 times:

That would be a major coup for Sukhoi - an EMB-170 and CRJ-900 operator choosing the SSJ-100.

Hopefully this is true.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1870 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21217 times:

(If it's true) It would be the 3rd order from Italy.

Already ItAli Airlines has ordered 10 (+10) SSJ 100-95s back in June 2007. Then SuperJet International (a joint venture between Alenia Aeronautica (51%) and Sukhoi Holding Company (49%)) has ordered 20 (+5) SSJ100-95s in July 2008.

There were also rumours that AlpiEagle will restart operations with three Fokker 100s and later the F100s would replaced with SSJ100s.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21163 times:

Quoting viasa (Reply 2):
Then SuperJet International (a joint venture between Alenia Aeronautica (51%) and Sukhoi Holding Company (49%)) has ordered 20 (+5) SSJ100-95s in July 2008.

Is that an airline? Aren't these rather the manufacturers themselves? Will they lease or sell these planes?


User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1870 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21077 times:

No, that's not an airline! It's look like an inhouse leasing company like ECC Leasing (Embraer).

User currently offlinejalap From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19419 times:

Quoting viasa (Reply 2):
Then SuperJet International (a joint venture between Alenia Aeronautica (51%) and Sukhoi Holding Company (49%)) has ordered 20 (+5) SSJ100-95s in July 2008.

This could very well be the lessor referred to in Flightglobal:

"Industry sources indicate that the airline would firm the order through a Western lessor to reduce acquisition risks."


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14585 times:
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Hoping it will be true...

Will be nice to see Russian metal airliners in a Western airline...



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7693 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14565 times:
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Go Sukhoi! Hope this all goes ahead. It is a beautiful plane and will look cool in those colours.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14041 times:

I've been searching on the net for some additional informations to give you, but I wasn't as lucky as I thought I would have been. The only piece of news I found was from Italy's Finance Ministry webpage, you can read it here: http://rassegnastampa.mef.gov.it/mef...ca/View.aspx?ID=2010052615791530-1

For those not fluent in Italian, it briefly states that AZ is asking for a massive discount, cutting each airplane pricetag by 20%. However, it looks like the purchase is far from being secured.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13968 times:

While it is likely that the 20 aircraft ordered by SuperJet International just are finding an airline that flies them, so we do not speak about 40 aircraft altogether, it still would be a coup.

User currently offlinedebonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2399 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13804 times:

Quoting sibille (Thread starter):
It would be the first Western National airlines order!!!

Well, still the first Western National airline is MALEV HUNGARIAN AIRLINES order from 2009
- 15+15!  


User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13695 times:

It's being delayed seriously.
Aeroflot needs them badly after they have written off TU-134-A-3.
Now they are forced to use A-319 on those routes. Which is obviously better in terms of fuel consumption - but A-319 is large for many destinations with high frequences.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13586 times:

Quoting debonair (Reply 10):

Well, still the first Western National airline is MALEV HUNGARIAN AIRLINES order from 2009
- 15+15!

EU airline, yes, but Western? Malev?


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User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12568 times:

Quoting debonair (Reply 10):
Well, still the first Western National airline is MALEV HUNGARIAN AIRLINES order from 2009
- 15+15!


The MA order was just a LOI, basically a much needed publicist act from a Russian owned airline to a Russian project. Now that MA is 100% back in Hungarian hands, and the focus is directed towards surviving, it is less and less unlikely that this order will materialise. If there would be any real deal behind this, it should hav been long finalized...


Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
EU airline, yes, but Western? Malev?



I don't think he was talking about geographics  



Peet7G
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11887 times:

That would be excellent news for the program if this rumor is confirmed. I agree that if it happens, AZ would not acquire these a/c directly but through a lessor, probably via SuperJet international, to minimize risk.

But with AZ having CR9's and E170's in their fleet, I find this rumor very hard to believe... why introduce a new, unproven type instead of adding more of these two existing types?

On the other hand, viewed purely in terms of industrial cooperation, if/when the Superjet sells in the West, it would have the best chances for doing that in France (Snecma) or Italy (Alitalia).


User currently offlineflanor From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11221 times:

Let's hope this order is the result of a business decision, not of a personal favor of mr Berlusconi to mr Putin.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/55051,...ding-vladimir-putin-birthday-party


User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11221 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 14):
why introduce a new, unproven type instead of adding more of these two existing types?

Maybe to progressively harmonize the regional fleet with just one type (SSJ-100) instead of the existing two (CRJ and ERJ).


User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11049 times:

Quoting debonair (Reply 10):
Well, still the first Western National airline is MALEV HUNGARIAN AIRLINES order from 2009
- 15+15!



[quote=PEET7G,reply=13]

PEET7G is right. The chances of MA actually getting the SSJ is very slim. I think the LOI will be cancelled for purely political reasons. However Sukhoi was planning on making BUD a maintenance base for the SSJ so that may complicate things.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineTravelAVNut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1586 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10137 times:

Holy Smokes! This is quite the surpise!

If it turns out to be firm indeed than congrats to Alitalia and Sukhoi! I really hope this pretty little jet garners some more orders...



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinebthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

This was an error apparently:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...isting-superjets-for-alitalia.html


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9720 times:

Quoting bthebest (Reply 19):
This was an error apparently:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles....html

All sounds very suspicious though. Looks to me like they disclosed the undisclosed customer too soon   This was probably meant to be announced at Farnborough, but somebody screwed up...
After all, why else would they "mistakenly" put AZ's name next to what they now call an "undisclosed customer". If anything, this "error" seems to confirm that there is, at the least, an interest from AZ for 20 aircraft, if not an outright order. Farnborough should clear things up.

Quoting 777 (Reply 16):
Quoting r2rho (Reply 14):
why introduce a new, unproven type instead of adding more of these two existing types?

Maybe to progressively harmonize the regional fleet with just one type (SSJ-100) instead of the existing two (CRJ and ERJ).

I thought of that as well. But then it would make sense to get E190's and sell the CR9's as a low-risk solution. Pilots are already trained and maintenance is set up. The SSJ should have a lower acquisition/leasing cost and lower fuel burn, but its maintenance costs are still an unknown, and would bring along the costs of introducing a new type. Would AZ be willing to take that risk? That is the question.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8895 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 14):
On the other hand, viewed purely in terms of industrial cooperation, if/when the Superjet sells in the West, it would have the best chances for doing that in France (Snecma) or Italy (Alitalia).

I doubt the engine would play any significant role in a French purchase.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8812 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 20):
The SSJ should have a lower acquisition/leasing cost and lower fuel burn, but its maintenance costs are still an unknown, and would bring along the costs of introducing a new type. Would AZ be willing to take that risk? That is the question.

A better fuel economy? I don't think so. The SSJ100 has a wider fuselage (more aerodynamic drag to carry the same amount of passengers) and the SaM146 is not really a revolutionary engine, even compared to CF34.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8664 times:
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If this order is finalized, it would be a major milestone for the superjet.

But Sukhoi is backtracking...
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...isting-superjets-for-alitalia.html

However, AZ seems to have 'slot options,' so this could still happen.

Quoting debonair (Reply 10):
Well, still the first Western National airline is MALEV HUNGARIAN AIRLINES order from 2009

I'm with others. EU, yes. Western? Generally that implies a member of the Regan era NATO.

Quoting queb (Reply 22):
and the SaM146 is not really a revolutionary engine, even compared to CF34.

In many ways the SaM146 will be much more fuel efficient than the CF34. The SuperJet also has quite the advanced wing.

There are many things to doubt on the Superjet, but I'd bet for good efficiency. I'm being lazy, has anyone done a techops thread comparing the type to the E-jets and C-series?

It is encouraging the engine is ready for 16k cycles between overhauls. Is the airframe?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4998 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8363 times:

Great news for Sukhoi! I sure hope the planes do well.


I Am A Different Animal!!
25 B738FlyUIA : Great news! I guess as Alitalia is also in the SkyTeam as SU. So well could be some step for a partnership?
26 Aviopic : Empty Operating Weight per seat. SSJ100-95 = E-195 - 5% = E-190 - 13% = Cs110 - 16% Normal T/O Thrust per seat. SSJ100-95 = E-195 - 15% = E-190 - 28%
27 Post contains images r2rho : SFC for the SaM146 is stated at 0.629lb/h/lb versus 0.68 for the CF34-8 and 0.65 for the CF34-10. So it's not revolutionay, but it's still an improve
28 Post contains images lightsaber : Between the two of you, we now have enough numbers to begin a reasonable discussion. I think the main competition will be the C-series (due to the ra
29 MrSkyGuy : I'm not trying to throw salt on any open wounds by any means, but I struggle calling this a "Russian plane for the West" because it simply isn't. Betw
30 Cysafan : Hey guys, I wonder how efficient is the Sukhoi Superjet? It 's a good choice man.. Sukhoi seems to listen to what people are demanding and requests un
31 Clydenairways : Have to agree with you. Also this whole East and West is a thing from the past at this stage, it's a global market now.
32 Post contains images Cysafan : Yup.. We all treat the Russians as friends as they are rather knowledgable in a lot of things they do..
33 Post contains images scouseflyer : reading that article about the complex naure of the Sukhoi backlog makes the arguments about what is and isn't firm on Airbus' books seem really, rea
34 Post contains links and images Superfly : Would have been nice to see back when Soviet/Russian aircraft looked unique and different. The Sukhoi 100 just looks like a EMB170/190. Anyhow, here
35 Post contains links RubberJungle : This posting contains the smoking gun which shows Alitalia in the order book: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...litalia-superjets-is-the-gatt.htm
36 Post contains images oldeuropean : The whole story is so fishy. Sounds like Potemkin villages to me. They are still very popular and often used in Russia. The motto is: Who cares for ac
37 Post contains images lightsaber : Then again, until more details of the superjet are known, I doubt Alitalia will commit to a firm order (or more precisely, they might have a 'firm or
38 Post contains links queb : Superjet is poised to announced new orders, including a fresh Letter of Intent from a North American lessor for up to 65. http://www.flightglobal.com/
39 ju068 : Can someone explain to me how come all of a sudden there is so much demand for this model? I mean I am more than happy but still...
40 Larshjort : Why not, a new aircraft more efficient. Flight testing is being performed and more performance numbers are known. IT's not a paperplane any more. /Lar
41 Rheinbote : Alitalia is barely kept afloat by Italian taxpayer money, right? If true this "deal" would look like a Chinese-style "agreement" between more or less
42 janmnastami : No, it isn't. You're making confusion with the old Alitalia.[Edited 2010-07-14 05:17:58]
43 Post contains links and images r2rho : ...and more order rumors: Sukhoi to firm 30-Superjet deal with Asian carrier http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...erjet-deal-with-asian-carrier.html
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