c5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9205 times:
With the customs and traditions of the Middle Eastern society as it applies to women, are they discrminated against if they want to work for an airline? Do airlines like PIA, Suadi Arabia Airlines and Iraqi Airways allow women to work as pilots?
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5185 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9106 times:
PIA is not a Middle Eastern carrier its from South Asia or Subcontinent, and PIA has female pilots and a Captain as well, few years ago they operated an all female crew flight, both cockpit and cabin crew.
sw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6072 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9027 times:
I do not believe Saudi Arabian has female pilots.
Emirates and Etihad do, I believe. Same with Qatar and Gulf Air.
And yeah, Pakistan is not the Middle East. On the other hand, Israel is and I believe they have female pilots. So your question should not so much be about the "Middle East" but about "Islamic countries". For example, the largest Muslim nation on earth is Indonesia, far far far away from the Middle East. I am not sure about Garuda, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have female pilots, because I believe Malaysia Airlines does.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14327 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8637 times:
Quoting sw733 (Reply 2): On the other hand, Israel is and I believe they have female pilots.
I'm almost certain that they have female combat pilots in the IAF, so it would follow that LY probably does as well.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
afterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1102 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7057 times:
Quoting sw733 (Reply 2): For example, the largest Muslim nation on earth is Indonesia, far far far away from the Middle East. I am not sure about Garuda, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have female pilots, because I believe Malaysia Airlines does.
Indonesia is a moderate Muslim country. We have women pilots, women taxi drivers, even women bus drivers. And we've had a woman as our president.
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6567 times:
Quoting afterburner (Reply 10): Indonesia is a moderate Muslim country. We have women pilots, women taxi drivers, even women bus drivers. And we've had a woman as our president.
Moderate and multi-confessional as well, with pretty much every single religion on the planet represented and officially accepted, right?
To re-focus on the topic, I'm pretty sure Egyptair, MEA or TK hire lots of women, and have for a while, in both cabin and cockpit, probably with a female/male ratio close to what's standard at W European / N Am airlines.
As for Iraqi, there probably were during the Saddam era (was in no way an Islamic regime), now I'm not sure at what distance the current gvt is from Islam.
I'd think there would really be only SV (among large airlines at least) that does not let women pilot. I'd bet there aren't any women pilot in Afghanistan neither but 1. there are only a handful of airliners based there and 2. probably a severe lack of skilled women to do the job, rather than a law preventing it from happening.
Maybe Royal Brunei and Yemenia as well, but there i could be wrong.
turjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5655 times:
Quoting tk747 (Reply 3): I doubt women can pilot on SV as they can't even drive a car, so doubt that they can fly a plane.
There is one female Saudi pilot who's working with Kingdom Holdings. She's one of the captains on Prince Alwaleed's fleet. If I am not mistaken she also graduated from Prince Sultan Aviation Academy in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Her name is Hanadi Zakariya Hindi and the following is the article where I read it. http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=9&...n=0&article=54958&d=24&m=11&y=2004
And the original topic was women in Middle Eastern Airlines...lets not veer away into discussions about Islam, Muslim countries, Islamic principles and practices, as not a lot of us are well acquainted in these matters and a lot of our views are based on what the media tells us. Lets rather stick to facts we know about Middle Eastern Airlines.
Since the topic originally states "Women Working at Middle Eastern Airlines", I am assuming we should also include cabin crew. All Middle Eastern Airlines to the best of my knowledge have female cabin crew and that includes SV, IY and IR.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21483 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5591 times:
Quoting turjo101 (Reply 14): All Middle Eastern Airlines to the best of my knowledge have female cabin crew and that includes SV, IY and IR.
But, as far as I know, female cabin crew working for carriers from the "stricter" Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia (and several others) are foreigners. Does EK even have any female cabin crew who are UAE nationals?
turjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5527 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15): as far as I know, female cabin crew working for carriers from the "stricter" Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia (and several others) are foreigners.
being foreigners don't make them any less or more of women. The fact that they have a lot more foreign female staff has a lot to do with protectionist cultural and family values in these areas that restrict women from taking cabin crew jobs. I mean if the argument is that you can't have women in these positions, then there wouldn't be foreign women working as cabin crew. I mean its a lot like the construction labor situation in the middle east. The locals aren't restricted from doing these work, but they chose for whatever reason not to and as a result the employers get cheaper alternatives from South Asia. Similarly the travel and tourism sector in the Middle East even in comparative liberal places like the UAE don't see a lot of local women taking up the roles, wheather its Airline or Hotels, the jobs are filled by cheaper paid Phillipino workers.
sw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6072 posts, RR: 10 Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5350 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15): Does EK even have any female cabin crew who are UAE nationals?
Does the UAE even have ANYONE in the country from the UAE?!?! Kidding, kidding...
Quoting turjo101 (Reply 17): being foreigners don't make them any less or more of women
Agreed. A woman in Saudi Arabia, be her Saudi, Namibian, American, Japanese, whatever, is still a woman in Saudi Arabia.
borism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
Quoting turjo101 (Reply 17): I mean if the argument is that you can't have women in these positions, then there wouldn't be foreign women working as cabin crew. I mean its a lot like the construction labor situation in the middle east. The locals aren't restricted from doing these work, but they chose for whatever reason not to and as a result the employers get cheaper alternatives from South Asia. Similarly the travel and tourism sector in the Middle East even in comparative liberal places like the UAE don't see a lot of local women taking up the roles, wheather its Airline or Hotels, the jobs are filled by cheaper paid Phillipino workers.
It's a little bit suspicious if all local women have "chosen" not to work in these airline and travel jobs or all local men "chose" not to work in construction jobs, even if it's not prohibited by written law, don't you think?
vv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4539 times:
Quoting turjo101 (Reply 14): There is one female Saudi pilot who's working with Kingdom Holdings. She's one of the captains on Prince Alwaleed's fleet. If I am not mistaken she also graduated from Prince Sultan Aviation Academy in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Her name is Hanadi Zakariya Hindi
Capt. Hanadi Zakaria al-Hindi graduated in Amman. You will find further details about the only female Saudi pilot in the link in Reply 5 from Jetcaptain.
afterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1102 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4464 times:
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 13): Moderate and multi-confessional as well, with pretty much every single religion on the planet represented and officially accepted, right?
To re-focus on the topic
You are the one who made an out-of-topic statement.
gardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4242 times:
Quoting 777way None of the gulf states allow their women to work as cabin crew unless the policy has changed.
I'm certain Oman Air hire local women as crew (both cockpit and cabin)
I remember reading an article about them recently in Airliner World and they were boasting about the fact they the majority of their crew are Omani nationals.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7345 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4070 times:
Years ago on "60 minutes" they did a story about Lebanon and there was an American woman married to a Lebaneese man who was very California Blonde and Blue eyed working as a F/A for the Lebanesse airline MEA. That probably is unique for any woman working in the Midle East with an airline in any capacity.
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5185 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4085 times:
Quoting vv701 (Reply 23): Quoting 777way (Reply 16):
None of the gulf states allow their women to work as cabin crew unless the policy has changed
By Gulf most people usually refer to the arab states and not Iran.
25 vv701: I recognise that the term "Arab Gulf States" refers specifically to Arab countries but most if not all of the references with which I am familiar lik
26 bjorn14: Every advert I've ever seen for a ME carrier has always shown attractive female F/As in them.
27 Raffik: Middle East Airlines (MEA- Air Liban) hire loads of female staff. From administration, sales, check in, cabin crew to flight crew.
28 777way: Wow as if you matter, In my part of the world the gulf is mainly used fror Arabian states never Iran.[Edited 2010-07-05 06:39:38]
29 vv701: Of course. In my part of the world we call it the Channel. But what would that mean in an international forum like a-net we need to call it the Engli
30 OD-BWH: Until recently, MEA employed only female attendants. I applied to them back in the 90's to work as a temporary FA but they turned me down cuz I'm not
31 ff22DXB: Not long ago i flew Dubai to Muscat and there was a local women( Actually I dont know if she was local but she had her head covered) in the cockpit, I
32 gr8circle: I lived in Oman for a few years back in the 90's and even back then, local Omani women were very prominently visible in a lot of jobs.....I disctictl
33 toobz: I flew on MEA about 4 years ago and had a male purser. It was an older gentleman who was very friendly and talkative. Great flight that was onboard a
34 AirbusA6: It's worth mentioning, that not all people in the 'Middle East' are Muslims, there is a Christian minority there as well, the numbers vary with each c
35 777way: There are no native Christians in the gulf arab states.
36 directorguy: Bahrain has a minority Christian community, and even one token Jewish family.
40 OD-BWH: In this case, there are no natives in the whole gulf region, except for Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. Other states incl. UAE, Kuwait, Qatar are settlemen
42 777way: Exactly so the natives are not non Muslims.
43 AirbusA6: True, but the neighbouring countries in the region do have a long Orthodox Christian heritage, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon etc dating from before Islam exis
44 777way: Yes but the Gulf Arabs are not non Muslims is the point, the rest are a different world compared to the gulf states.
45 Aesma: What he's saying is that nobody lived there, Muslim or otherwise.
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