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Frontier And Midwest To Start Service To BDL  
User currently offlineboeing71234567 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/06/28/daily48.html

Looks like Fronteir from KSAT-KBDL and Midwest from KMKE-KBDL November 19th. Plus the Jetblue service to Florida on November beginning November 17th and Compass to KMSP from KBDL starting September 7th, and the new Chautaugua service starting November 7th. Is there competition for BDL? I know they are building a new, bigger terminal there, but is it really attracting that many airlines?

-thank you

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Is SAT emerging as a focus city for the new Frontier?

User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4278 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Hartford is known as one of the insurance capitals of the world, so there is a good amount of premium demand from BDL, which is why although Hartford isn't the biggest city in the world, BDL can attract and retain a lot of service, plus its not a bad alternative for parts of Southern CT for pax who want to avoid LGA. I know this is not the best example, but if you watched the CNBC special on AA, they mentioned that the DFW-BDL route is significantly more profitable than JFK-LAX, despite one being primarily MD-80's and the other being 767's.

BDL is a pretty good airport all things considered. Also note that there is a ton of Mainline service that a lot of smaller airports don't get. F9 will do good on MKE, SAT though is eye popping. Not sure how that one will do. I am thinking MCI would be better for them.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17501 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

Quoting boeing71234567 (Thread starter):
Looks like Fronteir from KSAT-KBDL and Midwest from KMKE-KBDL November 19th.

I think that's SAT-MKE, not SAT-BDL



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Quoting boeing71234567 (Thread starter):
Looks like Fronteir from KSAT-KBDL and Midwest from KMKE-KBDL

That's MKE-BDL and MKE-SAT, actually.

I'm not surprised by them coming back to BDL. BDL has actually lost a fair amount of service to cities east of Denver and west of Cleveland over the past couple of years (MEM, IAH, IND, STL, MKE). I'm also not surprised by the lack of service to DEN. While I think they'll add DEN once the station is more developed, there's no need to get in the WN/UA fight right now.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAvconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4533 times:

They are discontinuing MKE to ATL. That is an FL win.

User currently offlineboydatageek From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 5):
They are discontinuing MKE to ATL. That is an FL win.


... or a peace offering.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

Quoting boydatageek (Reply 6):
... or a peace offering.

It won't work. FL will see blood in the water.


User currently offlineAvconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
It won't work. FL will see blood in the water.

That's a good point. It will definitly motivate them.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 8):
It will definitly motivate them.

I think it will, but should it? MKE-ATL is awful close to a hub-hub route, and YX doesn't fly BWI-MKE, so there aren't any other routes like that. It's going to take a whole lot more to chase YX out of LGA or BOS.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4292 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
I think it will, but should it? MKE-ATL is awful close to a hub-hub route, and YX doesn't fly BWI-MKE, so there aren't any other routes like that. It's going to take a whole lot more to chase YX out of LGA or BOS.

I agree with you Cubsrule, but i think it will motivate FL to add SAT and maybe add in BDL to the MKE network and even PHL. SAT is a very very good market for FL so much so that they upguaged the planes to 737's flying all routes to SAT except for MCO and one of the Atlanta frequencies. Ive always though with SAT adding gates that it would be a nice mini focus hub for an FL or F9. Either way its a way for F9 to deploy planes on other routes and a buzz to FL to add in a few more cities to with good frequency into the MKE and even BWI network. Couldn't BWI-BDL work?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 10):
I agree with you Cubsrule, but i think it will motivate FL to add SAT and maybe add in BDL to the MKE network and even PHL.

SAT might make sense, though they (wrongly IMO) haven't focused on secondary markets without a large leisure component from MKE except for the OO flying, and that's an awfully long flight for a CRJ.

I don't see BDL because I can't see them opening a station that far east just for MKE, and I don't see anything but MKE working from there. BDL-Florida was well covered even before B6 announced it, BDL-BWI is infested with WN (8 flights a day on a route with only about 425 local PDEW, not to mention BDL-IAD being almost all mainline on UA and a bunch of US* E Jets on BDL-DCA), and BDL-ATL, is a lousy route because of ATL's location (too far south) and possible DL retaliation.

PHL is a route they should have been on a year ago.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25256 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4248 times:
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Quoting boydatageek (Reply 6):
... or a peace offering.

I don't think it is a peace offering to Airtran. LOL.

I don't know if it is a "peace offering" to anyone, but it may be a sign. Airtran isn't the only airline on the route.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1744 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4247 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I don't see what equipment they'll be using. Republic/Midwest painted E-175s?

Certainly an upgrade over the old Dornier/CRJ service that we lost about a year and a half ago.



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
and YX doesn't fly BWI-MKE, so there aren't any other routes like that.

If memory serves, YX used to fly BWI-MKE and were run out by FL in Aug08. So that makes two times it has happened.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
I think it will, but should it?

Both these carruers are probably losing money there no matter what they say, so if their leaders can latch on to any positive sign they will use that to keep their stakeholders motivated that they are winning. FL definitely has the advantage in that regard IMHO.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 10):
but i think it will motivate FL to add SAT and maybe add in BDL to the MKE network

Maybe. I'd hope they wouldn't chase F9 on non-core routes like those. They should focus on head2head markets only in the 20 largest markets from MKE (and preferably without another carrier involved). Those have the best chance of supporting that kind of capacity level without a financial trainwreck.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
So that makes two times it has happened.

Your memory is correct, though I thought it was a bit later than that (not that it matters for these purposes).

But to my point, do you see a third similar route?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Quoting boeing71234567 (Thread starter):
Frontier And Midwest

Correction here: It is now F9. The YX code will be gone Nov 1, so it will be 100% F9. See the time line under Two Brands Become One.

http://www.frontiermidwest.com/weare1/timeline/



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 1):
plus its not a bad alternative for parts of Southern CT for pax who want to avoid LGA.

HPN is becoming more common for these travelers because of FL and B6.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Maybe. I'd hope they wouldn't chase F9 on non-core routes like those. They should focus on head2head markets only in the 20 largest markets from MKE (and preferably without another carrier involved). Those have the best chance of supporting that kind of capacity level without a financial trainwreck.

I agree but San Antonio is one of the most profitable cities in the FL network. they upped it to 4 times a day from Atl and its been full even with the upguage to the 737, Bwi is performing well from and to SAT so it would be good to plug it into the MKE hub of FL. I think it would be wise for FL to plug a few cities into MKE I.E CLT, RDU, BUF PHL maybe TYS(thinking outside the box) and charelston wv(also thinking out side the box) the latter 2 would be routes where they are the only one flying and could pull from a fairly large area to maybe make it work 1-2 times daily if that.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

Rather than fight it out for a small market like MKE-SAT, FL needs to keep expanding into new markets. SAT has been a resounding success. When will we see AUS, OKC, or TUL? None as large as SAT, but still quite sizable. Or other SE markets with WN but no other LCC like JAN and LIT?

[Edited 2010-07-03 17:24:23]


TLH
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 19):
Rather than fight it out for a small market like MKE-SAT, FL needs to keep expanding into new markets. SAT has been a resounding success. When will we see AUS, OKC, or TUL? None as large as SAT, but still quite sizable. Or other SE markets with WN but no other LCC like JAN and LIT?

I agree about the cities you were saying. Surely those six planes next year will certainly be used for new markets? Realistically how many new routes can 6 planes open? Be it FL F9 or who ever?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 18):
I think it would be wise for FL to plug a few cities into MKE I.E CLT, RDU, BUF PHL maybe TYS(thinking outside the box) and charelston wv(also thinking out side the box) the latter 2 would be routes where they are the only one flying and could pull from a fairly large area to maybe make it work 1-2 times daily if that.

I'm not sure how FL would do to MKE. It'd have to be a CRJ, but when you go to a CRJ and everyones price-matching, FL loses much of the appeal they currently have. OO really cant offer the FL product, which is part of the draw here.

It would tie us into the FL network, to a limited extent. I heard it took CAK-MKE a while to catch on, and they have a large loyal FL following. Not so sure a CRJ with primarily west coast connections would work out.

That said, If FL wanted to get a few RJ's into the BWI system and used a few bridge cities, I'm thinking it'd be game on for CRW.

I think you've got a valid point on the other cities. TYS included, as they're a bit larger than us.


User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):

I think it will, but should it? MKE-ATL is awful close to a hub-hub route, and YX doesn't fly BWI-MKE, so there aren't any other routes like that. It's going to take a whole lot more to chase YX out of LGA or BOS.


YX withdrew from the BWI-MKE route when YX was restructuring the network when they loss 12 of their leased 717's to Boeing defaulted lease. That is why they dropped the BWI-MKE route. Not because FL drove them out of the market. But now would not be wise to return to the route with FL and WN on the route. As to the ATL- MKE route, about 50% of heir market were connecting to other cities on DL in ATL, but the codeshare that made the market profitable for F9/YX ended last month and now those customers are traveling DL versus F9/YX to DL @ ATL. And to why did they enter their BDL- MKE route, as someone mentioned above Hartford is a big Insurance company city, well believe it or not so is MKE. We have 5 major insurance companies here in the area and MSN has 3 and that produces a good market as well as a good alternative to LGA or BOS. And as to the other Major markets you said that were weak for F9 due to the a/c type used look at what is going to be used now A-319. and I would not be surprised to see A-320's in the spring of 2011 as the new a/c enter service..



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3395 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 22):
And as to the other Major markets you said that were weak for F9 due to the a/c type used

Where did I say that any route was weak for F9 (or, for that matter, why they dropped BWI)?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
Where did I say that any route was weak for F9 (or, for that matter, why they dropped BWI)?

Ok, I guess you did not but somewhere I got the impression that your comment was taken by someone to imply that the BOS, LGA and DCA routes were weak. As to the BWI route, I was not trying to say you did make any reason for dropping the route I was just trying to provide some history as to why the route was ended nothing more to it and why they were getting out of the MKE-ATL as well. Sorry if I left you feeling like you were negitive on the route termination.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
25 stlgph : as jetBlue and Frontier come to Bradley, i'm curious about how the gate assignments will play out. it's going to be a crowded terminal on peak travel
26 Cubsrule : Yes, and looking back, I don't think I was real clear. I wasn't talking about the route specifically, just about not wanting to mess with the DEN mes
27 stlgph : i wonder if Frontier will fly out of where the Continental gates are now.
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