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FedEx Fleet Size- Make Up Today & Tomorrow  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2899 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7414 times:
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Exactly how large is FedEx's fleet? And what's on order to replace what?

It almost seems as if FedEx got into the pax business they would have the experience but the ability to start from scratch in terms of all pax airline conventons. Never happen, but I would easily fly FedEx to Asia if they got the customer experience to be fresh and exciting.


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinenwafan20 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7360 times:

as of May 31:

A300-600: 71
A310-200/300: 49
727-200: 77
757-200: 36
777-200F: 6
DC-10-30: 2
MD-10-10: 58
MD-10-30: 15
MD-11: 59
ATR 42-300: 26
ATR 72-200: 13
Cessna Caravan 208A: 10
Cessna Caravan 208B: 242

Total: 664



Long live the Red Tail! | WMU Flight Science major
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7286 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
It almost seems as if FedEx got into the pax business they would have the experience but the ability to start from scratch in terms of all pax airline conventons. Never happen, but I would easily fly FedEx to Asia if they got the customer experience to be fresh and exciting.

I'm just curious as to what are you trying to get at here?? FedEx has a large fleet so they could get into the passenger business?? UPS at one time did have a few 721's that were carrying pax for different charter operations.

FX1816


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7265 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 2):
UPS at one time did have a few 721's that were carrying pax for different charter operations.

Didn't FedEx technically have a passenger operation briefly after they bought Flying Tigers?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7218 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 2):
UPS at one time did have a few 721's that were carrying pax for different charter operations.

Didn't FedEx technically have a passenger operation briefly after they bought Flying Tigers?

I believe that they may have but it would have been for a VERY short time unless the Metro International operation had already ceased before the FX takeover. I believe what UPS did actually had a few regularly scheduled flights but I could be thinking about something else.

FX1816


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7211 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 4):
I believe what UPS did actually had a few regularly scheduled flights but I could be thinking about something else.

I know that UPS did actually do passenger charters, but I don't know about scheduled.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7171 times:

Quoting nwafan20 (Reply 1):
DC-10-30: 2

Just curious - are these two remaining DC-10's still going to be converted to MD-10's? Or is that program done?

Quoting nwafan20 (Reply 1):
727-200: 77

I'm guessing the 757's are gradually replacing these?

Quoting nwafan20 (Reply 1):
Cessna Caravan 208A: 10
Cessna Caravan 208B: 242

I've seen some of these in YYZ but didn't know they had this money. I gather they do short, thin routes from secondary airports with a significant amount of time-sensitive cargo? How does UPS handle that market?

Thanks for any answers, I don't know too much about cargo ops.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offline113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 572 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7059 times:

FedEx operated charters for the military with two B747-100s in 490 seat passenger configuration as a result of the merger with Flying Tigers. During that time, the flight attendants were the only unionized employee group in FedEx. Prior to the phaseout of the B747 fleet, FedEx got an approval for a DC-10 passenger charter configuration and conducted the required evacuation demo. However, no passenger charters were ever operated with the DC-10.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31006 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6767 times:
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Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 6):
Just curious - are these two remaining DC-10's still going to be converted to MD-10's? Or is that program done?

Wiki says they're leaving the fleet in 2011 to be replaced by two MD-10-30s, but I don't know if that means they are being converted or if FX has secured two MD-10-30s from another source to replace them.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2899 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6731 times:
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Wow! Thanks for all this! So this raises 2 questions and a thought. Why didn't a 747F work for them? Given their size and the "front load" ability of a 747, why were they eliminated? I know zero about an all fright airline, but FedEx is a client of my company. We created the FedEx brand and livery you see today. While it was done in our SF office, it is reported from my close friends who work with them that they are a spectacular and innovative company.
From all I have read about the advantages of a 747's front load capability and FedEx's size it would appear ( to a novice like me) why they wouldn't use them on long "fat" routes. Are there anyone have pics of a FedEx 747 with Landor livery on it? When we designed it, the team had used either the DC-10 or MD-11 and an A300 to design on.

Also, I know of and have seen the 777F, what else (aside from the 757) are they thinking of getting or ordering...A380? 748-F? More 777's? It would seem that many, many 747's, 767's 737's would be available for cheap? Is it just not worth it to pull them out of the dessert? Seems Frieght companies can make a lot of use of very old aircraft ex: UPS DC-9's (right? Wrong?)

As for FedEx Airlines; my idea (admittedly could be the dumbest ever on A.net was simply; FedEx (and I know this factually as we have the quantitative data) is one of the most highly regarded brands in the world. Highly differeciated and held in high esteem (and an awesome logo) could stretch their brand equity into a (potentially niche) passenger airline with "perhaps" very high status. (just an idea) I would envision a smaller, but modern fleet of long-range aircraft with spectacular services targeted to heavy business travelers who are often full-fare (money does not matter) people who are seeking serious, higlhly professional fuss-free service (but still classy) reliable travel. I would easily do FedExAir on a 777 from NY to HK or LHR, SIN, GRU, NRT etc, etc with no fuss and avoid throngs of leasure travelers.
(whom I love to watch but sometimes wish for more exclusivity to work and/ or rest) It just seems to me that the up-front market, where long hauls are great once in the tube, could a dead serious airline like FedEx Airlines (NOT a Enos unknown brand) cater to this audience? EXAMPLE: How is the BA A319 doing from JFK to London City doing? I'm
dying to try that flight as I do 2 long hauls a month and London 8 to 10 times a year! ( somewhat of another thread-
but used as an example) I just got back yesterday in BA business, nice, but that 747 was packed and then 1000 people at immagration! Sorry this was so long.




Also,



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

By the time FedEx got the Flying Tiger B-747-200Fs, they were very worn out. Plus FedEx had to do the engine strut fix for the CF-6 engines because of the El Al B-747-200F crash in AMS. They were all also coming up on their "D" checks.

FedEx also could never fill the B-747F to its capacity and really had no customers with cargo big enough to take advantage of the nose cargo door. IIRC, FedEx only operated 5 or 6 FT B-747-200Fs, and only for a little over a year or so.

I saw them a few times at DFW, and only remember one that was painted in FedEx colors (the old colors from the 1990s and before). The others only had a large FedEx sticker on the upper deck, and still in the bear metal scheme Flying Tigers had.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31006 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6681 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 9):
Also, I know of and have seen the 777F, what else (aside from the 757) are they thinking of getting or ordering...A380? 748-F? More 777's?

They were an original A380-800F customer, but I have a feeling once Boeing shopped them the 777 Freighter, they saw it as a better fit for their operations. We should remember that FX did cancel their A380-800F order before Airbus put the program on hiatus (as did EK and ILFC, for that matter - only 5X cancelled after Airbus told them the program was mothballed).

So going forward, it appears the 777 will be the new backbone of their fleet, replacing the MD-10 and MD-11 fleets. FX has 19 77F on firm order and I believe have an MoU for another 19. They are also sitting on 15 options, I believe and have taken 77Fs from other customers (like AF Cargo). And they are widely expected to be a customer for the 777-200ERBCF passenger-to-freighter conversion program.


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6653 times:

I read somewhere that the last of the DC-10s was ferried to storage

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2899 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6643 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):

That is very ineresting. So even the new 748-F is still too big to fill! If they knew that so long ago, what were they thinking when they at least "considered" the A380 at almost 2x the size???

Also, a dear friend who works at UA headquarters (not in fleet planning but can probably assemble a 747 with his bare hands) has sung the praises of the MD-11 as such a great cargo plane. Assuming he's right, why replace the MD-11's with 777's and not all those older A300's?

And I am so embarassed to ask this; what does IIRC mean again?



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2243 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6604 times:

The Caravans are used as feeder service to their larger shipping centres. Kind of like the regionals for the airlines.

FedEx ships a higher percentage of smaller packages and boxes and time sensitive materials, so the height and ability of the 747 to take much larger and heavier shipments wasn't a good fit for them. The 77F is a perfect mix for them, taking large amount of the smaller items and letting them contract heavier shipments to fill the space and still give them the long legs.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6566 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
That is very ineresting. So even the new 748-F is still too big to fill!

Not too big necessarily, FedEx just doesn't carry that much freight that is extremely heavy or bulky so they don't need the unique capability of the 747.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
why replace the MD-11's with 777's and not all those older A300's?

I'd have to check, but I think that many of those A300s are quite young still. Not to mention that the 777F (though probably not converted ones) gives FX a significant operational advantage over the MD-11 with its longer range.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4117 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6507 times:

Did FedEx close the door completely on the A380, or simply say they'd revisit it at some point?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31006 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6494 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
That is very ineresting. So even the new 748-F is still too big to fill! If they knew that so long ago, what were they thinking when they at least "considered" the A380 at almost 2x the size?

FX might have chosen the A380-800F more for it's range than it's size. While the 747-400ERF has the legs to connect China and MEM/IND directly at FX's average cargo density, the A380-800F's greater volume might have appealed to them.

But now with the 777F they get all the benefits - good volume, great range, excellent fuel economy and the ability to seamlessly integrate with their operations around the world (whereas the A380-800F would have required specialized infrastructure upgrades).



Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
Assuming he's right, why replace the MD-11's with 777's and not all those older A300's?

The A306RF is a significantly smaller airframe designed for short-haul missions (~3500km). I would not be surprised if FX replaced them with pax-to-freight 767-300 conversions since that would leverage their 757-200P2F pilot pool.

The 777F offers more volume, payload lift and range to the MD-11F with superior fuel economy (and likely overall operating economics).


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6316 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
FedEx also could never fill the B-747F to its capacity and really had no customers with cargo big enough to take advantage of the nose cargo door. IIRC, FedEx only operated 5 or 6 FT B-747-200Fs, and only for a little over a year or so.

A quick search shows that FedEx operated the 747's from 1989 to at least March of 1996. Also there is a photo of N621FE, one of the pax FedEx 747's.

FX1816


User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6138 times:

I don't think FedEx would possibly do pax flights. they wouldn't be able to sustain in a market where we have already enough competition. It's a lot less riskier if they stay cargo, if you ask me


From the airport with love
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5895 times:
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Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 6):
How does UPS handle that market?

FedEx owns the Caravans, and they are flown and operated by various contractors. Empire Airlines, and others. Same with ATRs.

http://www.empireairlines.com/routemap.htm


UPS responds with other feeders to serve outlying areas, like Pendleton, Lakeview,OR, etc. Ameriflight is big in this area. I don't know who else does fly packages for them now.

http://www.ameriflight.com/RouteMaps/

And of course the many vans and trucks may drive to places FX may fly stuff to.

[Edited 2010-07-04 11:43:50]


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31006 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5770 times:
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Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 16):
Did FedEx close the door completely on the A380, or simply say they'd revisit it at some point?

I don't believe they have formally closed the door, but I believe the 77F and 77BCF will become their backbones since a P2F A380 is likely decades away.


User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5696 times:

Way back in the day we were going to do Pax during the day and cargo at night. In fact for some odd reason as the 727,s were coming online , We had im guessing maybe 5 737,s I believe were to be the start ups but the plan was scrapped and the 737,s disappeard.. As for the old tiger 747,s they were a piece of crap, and didnt stay long, even though owned by the company they were put out on lease and i beleve they went up and operated out of alaska.. The tiger aquistion was a disaster, like a round peg in a square hole..there was at the time a caddilac Alante that came through on the heavy weight 747, but could not connect to the out bound flight as it was i dunno something like a 727.. the car sat for a while, and they realized they could do heavy weight and small package as small package was much more profitable..

I cant see them going into pax service anytime soon, but who knows..I dont know if the above numbers for each aircraft are still currentbut i do still see a lot 727,s with the 757,s phaseing in. Im assumeing the used 757 market is limited as they are slow coming in. With the 777,s online the a-380 issue is dead. the A-380 is really cost prohibative, delivery times were horrible and since a freight had not been built there were rumours the hull had to be completley re-enfotced from the pax version..so i hear



i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 20):
UPS responds with other feeders to serve outlying areas, like Pendleton, Lakeview,OR, etc. Ameriflight is big in this area. I don't know who else does fly packages for them now.

http://www.ameriflight.com/RouteMaps/

I know Key Lime Air flies out of DEN for UPS, a friend of mine flies a Navajo for them.

FX1816


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 23):
I know Key Lime Air flies out of DEN for UPS, a friend of mine flies a Navajo for them.

Martinaire does a lot of the flying out of KLAN using C208s, SW4, and other equiment. Back a few years ago there were a few piston flights. You'd hear a ton of activity all of a sudden in the evening as all the feeders arrived a the same time.



The last of the famous international playboys
25 fxramper : Plenty of our a/c have been pulled from the desert - MD10, A310, and 727. Volume is way up, movement is required, and 4a2b has gone away and subsequen
26 FX1816 : We just had a FX 722 fly into VCV last Wednesday I believe, another one leaving the fleet?? I do like seeing the MD10's and A310's that leave from VC
27 jreuschl : Why does UPS use 747 and not FedEx? What difference in cargo needs for each of the companies?
28 VC10er : How many MD-11's were manufactured?
29 B738FlyUIA : Will the B757 modified with Winglets or has it begun?
30 Stitch : In terms of new-builds of all types, the total was 200. 131 - MD-11 005 - MD-11-C 005 - MD-11-ER 059 - MD-11-F
31 upsphl : I think UPS just pulled a 747-4F out of ROW two weeks ago think it went to HKG for a d-check our system said. I'm assuming its going to enter service
32 Post contains links Transpac787 : This is not accurate. FedEx has not had DC10's since mid-2009. FedEx Retires Last DC-10 (by LAXintl Apr 7 2009 in Civil Aviation)
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