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What Will AC Do With Their 787s  
User currently offlinecyxuk From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 111 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5464 times:

Air Canada has 37 orders for the new Boeing 787 with options for 23 more.

Obviously the aging 767 fleet is to be replaced and eventually the 330s as well. Perhaps on some routes (for example YUL-CDG) could use increased frequency.
On some level however they must be planning on adding some new destinations and expanding globally. Any opinions of what those might be if in fact any at all?

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline9mmpd From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5283 times:

I think YVR - MEL would be a good AC 787 destination.

User currently offlinebakersdozen From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

They've mentioned other "secondary" Chinese cities and possibly direct routes to asia from YYC/YOW etc (how is the NRT flight doing btw?). Only time will tell.

User currently offlinehawkercamm From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

Quoting 9mmpd (Reply 1):
I think YVR - MEL would be a good AC 787 destination.

At 7118 nm I think YVR - MEL will be to far for a B787-8.
The B787 will start to be payload restricted on ranges >6800nm


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4696 times:

Would the 787 replace the 767 on AC's long-haul flights to TLV and destinations in South America?

User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2229 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 4):
Would the 787 replace the 767 on AC's long-haul flights to TLV and destinations in South America?

Yes, those that don't warrant the 777 family for cargo and passenger loads will be 787's. While nothing is locked in stone as AC needs to respond to market conditions, the 763's will all go with oldest, those that have the most cycles and are approaching major checks, and those who are more costly in leases etc, going first. I would suspect as the 787's arrive you will also see some 767's redeployed to open up new routes that fall within their range.

There seem to be two schools of thought regarding the A333's. One is hold onto them as long as possible as they are good and very comfortable aircraft, and the other is to replace them sooner to reduce one aircraft type from the fleet. It will be interesting to see which opinion wins out.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8289 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4493 times:
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Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 5):
There seem to be two schools of thought regarding the A333's. One is hold onto them as long as possible as they are good and very comfortable aircraft, and the other is to replace them sooner to reduce one aircraft type from the fleet. It will be interesting to see which opinion wins out.

Thay are depreciated and soon paid for, the A333 carries lots of people from AC's Montreal and Toronto hubs to the main European destinations. Also AC's A333 are older with lower MTOW so there desirability in teh second hand market would not be too strong.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
Thay are depreciated and soon paid for, the A333 carries lots of people from AC's Montreal and Toronto hubs to the main European destinations. Also AC's A333 are older with lower MTOW so there desirability in teh second hand market would not be too strong.

   I think the 333 will stay for a while.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 5):
I would suspect as the 787's arrive you will also see some 767's redeployed to open up new routes that fall within their range.

I'm not so sure. GLA & MAN lost their 763 service, AMS & CPH & BCN & ATH are seasonal (DUB too ?). AC must think the opportunity cost for servicing these destinations is high enough to deploy the a/c elsewhere. Not sure with 788s displacing 763s on selected sectors that this would be any different. Perhaps dense-packing them and letTing Jazz fly them ???  

I think YUL-BEY/TLV & YYZ-TLV will be naturals for the 788. Also YYZ/YVR-DEL/BOM should not be as restricted as it was with the A343s. May also see YYZ-SVO. I wonder about any possibilities of YUL-direct Asia ?? (HKG & INC coming to mind, not so much NRT).

Finally, YVR-SIN (6923 nm) might happen. In fact, if it did, a SIN-DEL/BOM sector at ~2200 nm would make AC a round the world airline.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

AC will re-establish a non stop link between YYZ-ICN for sure!

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24906 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
AC's A333 are older with lower MTOW so there desirability in the second hand market would not be too strong.

AC has used the 333 on YYZ-NRT which is a fairly demanding route due to winds.


User currently offlinecyxuk From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 7):
I wonder about any possibilities of YUL-direct Asia ?? (HKG & INC coming to mind, not so much NRT).

Why not NRT because of the Star Alliance connections available..


User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3097 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

Hopefully AC will finally establish a permanent service to DEL and maybe, BOM.....they withdrew flights to India citing shortage of aircrafts and better deployment on lucrative China sectors a couple of years back....now, once the 787s come in, they can serve the Indian market on a more consistent basis...between AC, 9W and AI, they should be able to control a large share of that market....would cause some sleepless nights for EK and their 380s......  

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8759 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
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Hopefully AC will operate dedicated non-stop flights on the YYZ-SCL and YYZ-EZE routes.

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Quoting cyxuk (Reply 10):
Why not NRT because of the Star Alliance connections available..

Because Tokyo is not a particularly vibrant business market.

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 11):
Hopefully AC will finally establish a permanent service to DEL and maybe, BOM.....they withdrew flights to India citing shortage of aircrafts and better deployment on lucrative China sectors a couple of years back....now, once the 787s come in, they can serve the Indian market on a more consistent basis...between AC, 9W and AI, they should be able to control a large share of that market....would cause some sleepless nights for EK and their 380s......

Yes they would get a slice of the Canada-India market, but not sure about EK going sleepless. I think they will offer rock-bottom prices at the cost of a DXB connection.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):
Hopefully AC will operate dedicated non-stop flights on the YYZ-SCL and YYZ-EZE routes.

That would be attractive, but can the 787 back-haul enough freight ? I think that's the bigger reason for upgauging Santiago, BA, and Sao Paulo to 77Ws.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5083 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Mostly to replace older 767s and 330s but also to launch flights to new destinations.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8759 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3629 times:
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Quoting connies4ever (Reply 13):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):
Hopefully AC will operate dedicated non-stop flights on the YYZ-SCL and YYZ-EZE routes.

That would be attractive, but can the 787 back-haul enough freight ? I think that's the bigger reason for upgauging Santiago, BA, and Sao Paulo to 77Ws.

Yes, the B787 should be able to carry enough freight. AC only utilizes the B777-300ER on the YYZ-SCL-EZE-SCL-YYZ route during the Southern Summer. Then AC deploys the B763 on the route during the Northern Summer. The B787 will enable AC to operate these potential non-stop routes more efficiently IMO.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

I think AC want to open up new destinations in South America like Ecuador, Paraguay, Panama, Honduras, new destinations in Africa like Morocco, Egypt, South Africa and Nairobi. Russia would be nice and more Europe and Far East.
Would Brisbane or Cairns would be an ideal? I would love to see AC offer weekly flights to South Pacific like Tahiti, Samoas and Fiji?


User currently offlineairceo From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

I blogged about this some time ago: http://airceo.com/2010/04/why-air-canada-needs-the-787/

The 787 is NOT a straight swap forthe 767.

airceo



blogger at airceo | reach me: @airceo or fly@airceo.com
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2862 times:

If they are doing longer flights (than with the 763s) and new destinations, it begs the question: why didn't the order more aircraft?

Even if they keep the 333s, I am wondering if 7 aircraft over the 30 straight 763-788 swap is sufficient. Didn't AC have over 40 767s until very recently?

I am wondering if they are waiting for the 789 and 7810 to be better defined and maybe we'll see some orders converted and additional aircraft to replace the 333s and grow the fleet.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2792 times:

Quoting ytz (Reply 18):
Didn't AC have over 40 767s until very recently?

Yes,if you include the recently retired fleet of B762/ER. The current fleet of B763ER and A333 number about 37. I imagine the outstanding 23 options would allow growth over and above the current route network,and/or possibly replace some of the B77L / B77W at a later stage when some come off their leases. What should be interesting to watch is the model of B787 that AC takes up.


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2266 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2730 times:

Get a 767 back to GLA

User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 19):
What should be interesting to watch is the model of B787 that AC takes up.

Aren't they already pledged to take 788s?

I would see at least 30 788s for 767 1-for-1 replacements. What I think is the question mark is above 30. If they are keeping the 333, I could see the extra 7 being 788s and a future order of 789s or 7810s replacing the 333. If the 333s are going to be replaced soon than maybe we'll see a switch to 789s for 7 or more aircraft.

I am curious why you think the 77L and 77W would be replaced by the 787? Too small I would think. And maybe too little range for some destinations. What's the estimate on max payload range for the 788?


User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2661 times:

I figure Asia (and India specifically) should be big in future plans.

User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2661 times:

How about expanding into Eastern Europe? I think YYZ-YUL-BUD or PRG would work well for AC. Both BUD and PRG had direct flights from YYZ with 80% > loads during the summer. Eastern Europe is a growing market and I bet TS or some European airline will eventually start a direct link to E. Europe from YYZ or YUL.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2229 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2633 times:

AC can switch any of their 788 orders to 789's at any time with no penalty. It has to be done within the certain time period prior to production. So later slots could easily be switched. I expect some of the options to be taken up and some of the options for 777's to be taken up as well.

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