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Airtran To Central And South America?  
User currently offlinevulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 521 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5661 times:

Does anyone think Airtran Airways will start service in the near future to either Central or South America? The talk is really heating up about some new routes down there.

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1543 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

I could believe Central America as in LIR or BZE but I think AUA is as close as FL is going to get to South America for a while. I would look for PUJ, GCM, CZM, STT, and the two places I listed above as FL's next destinations south of the US.


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User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 1):
I could believe Central America as in LIR or BZE but I think AUA is as close as FL is going to get to South America for a while. I would look for PUJ, GCM, CZM, STT, and the two places I listed above as FL's next destinations south of the US.

Id definitely agree with yah. South America itself might be in the medium term. They are choosing to expand cautiously internationally. In due time. Also I think if they were to go deeper south/central america they would need 700's of the ER variety.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32897 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 2):
Id definitely agree with yah. South America itself might be in the medium term. They are choosing to expand cautiously internationally. In due time. Also I think if they were to go deeper south/central america they would need 700's of the ER variety.

South America is not going to happen, period.

Venezuela and Colombia are closed skies. No frequencies available to Brazil or Ecuador either.

If AirTran wants to fly to Chile, Peru or Uruguay, they can feel free to. But there's no market there.



a.
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
South America is not going to happen, period.

Things that are closed can be opened.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Venezuela and Colombia are closed skies. No frequencies available to Brazil or Ecuador either.

You have said this before I believe, maybe my hypoxia brain fails me but there are other countries in South America they could go to and I think if anything its more central then south america. Maybe as well they might explore the option in creative ways.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32897 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 4):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
South America is not going to happen, period.

Things that are closed can be opened.

Try telling that to American Airlines and Spirit, who have applications for service to Venezuela pending since 2005.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 4):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Venezuela and Colombia are closed skies. No frequencies available to Brazil or Ecuador either.

You have said this before I believe, maybe my hypoxia brain fails me but there are other countries in South America they could go to and I think if anything its more central then south america. Maybe as well they might explore the option in creative ways.

And where is the market coming from? Colombia-U.S., for example, is nearly 60% to Miami and 24% to New York City (BOG, the most "diverse" market, is 49% Miami and 21% New York). AirTran does not have the network scope to make it work.

AirTran has good potential in high density Caribbean leisure destinations, and there are some Central American airports like SJO that will fit that mold. That's about it.



a.
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 1):
I could believe Central America as in LIR or BZE but I think AUA is as close as FL is going to get to South America for a while. I would look for PUJ, GCM, CZM, STT, and the two places I listed above as FL's next destinations south of the US.

Well I would say PUJ is a pretty good bet considering they recently applied to the DOT to begin twice weekly service there starting in December.  

I would probably agree that GCM or STT would be next most-likely because, while both are higher-end destinations unlike the current Caribbean destinations served by FL, there is still a good amount of demand to those.

I really doubt that we will see FL in CZM or BZE anytime soon; Costa Rica (be it, SJO or LIR) is probably the only realistic Central American destination for FL.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 4):
You have said this before I believe, maybe my hypoxia brain fails me but there are other countries in South America they could go to and I think if anything its more central then south america. Maybe as well they might explore the option in creative ways.

Please share what these "creative" ideas entail. You are correct that there are other South American countries aside from what MAH posted: Argentina, Bolivia, French Guyana, Guyana, Paraguay, and Suriname. Do tell which ones you think are viable...


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25332 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5169 times:
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Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 6):
Please share what these "creative" ideas entail. You are correct that there are other South American countries aside from what MAH posted: Argentina, Bolivia, French Guyana, Guyana, Paraguay, and Suriname. Do tell which ones you think are viable...

Several on your list are not even contenders, given Airtran's present fleet, but of the others there are a couple of routes that might work. I am surprised that no US airline seems to serve them.

I agree it is more likely that Airtran will investigate the Caribbean first, but who knows? There could be some interesting "creative" routes just a little bit further south.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32897 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 6):
Please share what these "creative" ideas entail. You are correct that there are other South American countries aside from what MAH posted: Argentina, Bolivia, French Guyana, Guyana, Paraguay, and Suriname. Do tell which ones you think are viable...

Several on your list are not even contenders, given Airtran's present fleet, but of the others there are a couple of routes that might work. I am surprised that no US airline seems to serve them.

What might work?

U.S.-Bolivia is out-of-range and nonetheless tiny; already served by Aerosur and American with little demand outside of Miami and D.C.

U.S.-Paraguay is out-of-range and tiny; but AA will be returning next year if plans work out.

U.S.-Guyana has little significant from New York City and a little from Orlando and South Florida, but Delta is already there. Extremely seasonal market nonetheless.

U.S.-Suriname market is near non-existent. SLM flies Paramaribo-Miami, but with 5th freedom via Aruba for obvious reasons.

U.S.-French Guyana is even smaller; Air France has a hopper route between Miami and Cayenne.



a.
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1543 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5059 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 6):
Well I would say PUJ is a pretty good bet considering they recently applied to the DOT to begin twice weekly service there starting in December.

I know but FL applies for a lot of stuff and they have not yet officially announced PUJ so I don't know when it will actually happen.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 6):
I really doubt that we will see FL in CZM or BZE anytime soon

I could see Saturday only service to both those places. I don't know about "soon" though.

Edit: Forgot to add that FL is opening a pilot base in MCO so perhaps that will allow MCO to see increased use as a connecting hub.

[Edited 2010-07-13 22:29:04]


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25332 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5051 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
U.S.-Bolivia is out-of-range and nonetheless tiny; already served by Aerosur and American with little demand outside of Miami and D.C.

U.S.-Paraguay is out-of-range and tiny; but AA will be returning next year if plans work out.

I think l already said that - given Airtran's present fleet - some of the nominated countries were non-starters, as in beyond the range. I wouldn't want to be on a non-stop 737 from Florida to Argentina.   

For the rest, I can only repeat myself:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
I agree it is more likely that Airtran will investigate the Caribbean first, but who knows? There could be some interesting "creative" routes just a little bit further south.


They might require a little creative thinking , of course, and, for example, I have no idea if Airtran would have any interest in employing bilingual f/a's.

Absent that big picture, it seems silly to go into detail.

mariner

[Edited 2010-07-13 22:29:57]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):

Several on your list are not even contenders, given Airtran's present fleet, but of the others there are a couple of routes that might work. I am surprised that no US airline seems to serve them.

That was half of my point though - that posters are claiming there are other opportunities in South America in spite of the fact that the next best (and I use that term loosely) destinations, aside from the closed skies ones, are out of range. The remaining "opportunities" that are within range are tiny tiny markets.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25332 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5001 times:
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Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 11):
The remaining "opportunities" that are within range are tiny tiny markets.

I don't know that they are all "tiny, tiny" but, yes, most aren't big markets. However - I believe - there is money to be made from some small markets by an airline that thinks outside the box.

This whole thread is based on a rumor so I don't see much point in speculating on specific routes because any of them would require some "creative" thinking and I have no idea if Airtran would think that creatively.

So I say again, I would imagine Airtran is more interested in the lower hanging fruit of the nearer Caribbean, but that doesn't mean other potential opportunities aren't there.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

The whole question of range yes the current 737's dont quite have the range, however as aid one of those 737-700ER's would have the range to reach most of those markets that have been talked about. Plus you guys seem to be missing a very lucrative market.

MAH you keep listing the same countries there are more then that in south and central america. Also creative thinking could mean any number of things, aquisitions, mergers, new fleet types, creative marketing agreements etc etc.

Mariner your spot on. Also bilingual crew members exist but not officially. I think they will eventual get a language speaking program in place. Also with the new planes coming in, cabin upgrades both hard and soft and crew bases in MCO for both pilots and Fa's not to mention overwater training gearing up, thinks are falling in place for exciting times for them. Admittedly I think canada will be added to thre network before deeper south america.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32897 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 13):
MAH you keep listing the same countries there are more then that in south and central america.

No, there isn't. For the nth time, we will go over it.

Argentina - Too far.
Brazil - Not open skies; no frequencies available; too far.
Bolivia - Too far; tiny market (virtually non-existent outside of MIA/WAS)
Chile - Too far; tiny market.
Colombia - Not open skies.
Ecuador - Not open skies; small market; UIO needs a 757 due to elevation; not even Delta works year-round on GYE.
French Guyana - No market (so small it barely registers; almost all of it to MIA).
Guyana - No market outside of NYC (a little traffic to ORL and MIA/FLL, but extremely seasonal).
Paraguay - Too far; no market.
Peru - Possibly within a 73G range; Open Skies; small market.
Suriname - No market (over 85% of this tiny goes to MIA).
Uruguay - Too far; no market.

Get creative with what? Get creative with ways to lose a lot of cash?

South America isn't happening - consider realistic expectations like destinations in the Caribbean and possibly Costa Rica. Ten years from now, AirTran will definitely still not be flying south of Aruba.

Outside of Costa Rica, traffic to Central America is heavily VFR and, depending on the country, is heavily centered around a small handful of areas - MIA, WAS, NYC, LAX, HOU, SFO and DAL. Not even ORL or CHI has much of a market to Central America.

You can't get "creative" with VFR markets. There is no artificial demand like a leisure route - it either works or it doesn't. When an airline launches MCO-PUJ, people might suddenly start saying, "let's go to Punta Cana." When you launch MCO-SAP (a market of less than 10 PDEW), there is no rush to get to San Pedro Sula.

[Edited 2010-07-14 03:31:55]


a.
User currently onlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4516 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4800 times:

San Jose, Costa Rica might be the realistic Central American destination on AirTran, taking into account the existence of B6 MCO-SJO and F9 DEN-SJO.
Frontier and jetBlue are keeping San Jose as its sole regional station and such routes have been progressing in terms of frequencies and jet-line equipment.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4776 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Argentina - Too far.

A B737-700 has the range for a FLL/MIA-SLA/TUC. SLA might be able to draw some Northamerican tourists, but the logistics of flying such a route 1-3 per week and the possible market FL could get are hard to visualize.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Colombia - Not open skies.

Neither ADZ nor CTG are open skies? IMHO, a FLL/MIA-ADZ route would be very iffy, even for Colombian airlines. But ADZ does fit the FL model of routes to leisure destinations, however that's a low-budget tourist destination.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Peru - Possibly within a 73G range; Open Skies; small market.

If FL can get a tour operator who needs X amount of seats per week between IQT and U.S. maybe. Currently there's no MCO-LIM, it's within B737-700 range, but FL could have it hard to compete with all the other options between MCO and LIM offered several times per day.

In Central America: leisure destinations LIR, SJO, BZE, RTB stand a chance, as long as there's no other airline flying the route and FL does get a seat guarantee from operators. PTY and/or SAL from BWI, very doubtfull, but FL should study those.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25332 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4598 times:
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Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 13):
MAH you keep listing the same countries there are more then that in south and central america. Also creative thinking could mean any number of things, aquisitions, mergers, new fleet types, creative marketing agreements etc etc.

Then again, nowhere does the OP's rumor say it has to be regular scheduled service.

So bringing it closer home - Mexico and the Caribbean - CZM and PVR do not appear on any Airtran route map I have seen (does PUJ?) but they will be flying there this coming year. Presently they are listed with the DOT to fly 267 Funjet charters to those places, plus MBJ and CUN. And that's just from MKE.

Still, playing the scheduled service game, I think everyone agrees there are choices within Central America, such as Costa Rica. Personally, I wouldn't go up against Delta to Roatán, but Airtran has gone up against Delta before.

Going further afield - the contentious South America - the whole point of the LCC model is to stimulate traffic with lower fares - the Southwest or Allegiant effect. Or the Ryanair effect.

And I don't underestimate the power of cabin fever. So - again - I can think of at least a couple of routes where lower fare service might well stimulate traffic. Not just those going to the tropical paradise, but those stationed there who want a break from the tropical paradise and get some bright lights, big city - at a reasonable price. LOL.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4566 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
So bringing it closer home - Mexico and the Caribbean - CZM and PVR do not appear on any Airtran route map I have seen (does PUJ?) but they will be flying there this coming year. Presently they are listed with the DOT to fly 267 Funjet charters to those places, plus MBJ and CUN. And that's just from MKE.

I could definitely see PVR and maybe even ZIH becoming scheduled less the daily flights. Most of the subservice flying picks back up in December. PUJ will more then likely be announced at the end of the year if its approved and i cant see why not. Would be interesting to see Santo Domingo.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
South America isn't happening - consider realistic expectations like destinations in the Caribbean and possibly Costa Rica. Ten years from now, AirTran will definitely still not be flying south of Aruba.

So ten years from now the situation wont change? Interesting. Only time will tell.

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
And I don't underestimate the power of cabin fever. So - again - I can think of at least a couple of routes where lower fare service might well stimulate traffic. Not just those going to the tropical paradise, but those stationed there who want a break from the tropical paradise and get some bright lights, big city - at a reasonable price. LOL.

Spot on as usual.

I dont think anyone is expecting Airtran of Jetblue for that matter to have an American Airline style south american and carribean service but there are options and oppurtunities and as FL gets more of these 737's they will certainly not all be doing Atlanta moline turns coupled with the fact they will have life rafts and be certified for longer and deeper over-water missions. Just seems like alot of things are coming together for something interesting. As Ive said before these are exciting times in the aviation industry.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3091 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
too far.

Too far? FL can reach northern Brazil with ease with the 73G.



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User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8824 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4492 times:
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 16):
If FL can get a tour operator who needs X amount of seats per week between IQT and U.S. maybe. Currently there's no MCO-LIM, it's within B737-700 range, but FL could have it hard to compete with all the other options between MCO and LIM offered several times per day.

Do you really think that FL would even think of flying MCO-IQT or MCO-LIM? Tour operators usually prefer to promote multiple cities with a south american package and FL does not offer that possibility.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 16):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Colombia - Not open skies.

Neither ADZ nor CTG are open skies? IMHO, a FLL/MIA-ADZ route would be very iffy, even for Colombian airlines. But ADZ does fit the FL model of routes to leisure destinations, however that's a low-budget tourist destination.

How many North American tourists would travel to ADZ in your opinion? ADZ is almost unknown among North Americans and does not offer a wide variety of hotels and resorts compared to other islands. Also, if FL flew FLL/MIA-CTG, they would be the fourth carrier servicing that route!

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 18):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
South America isn't happening - consider realistic expectations like destinations in the Caribbean and possibly Costa Rica. Ten years from now, AirTran will definitely still not be flying south of Aruba.

So ten years from now the situation wont change? Interesting. Only time will tell.

FL's product is not on par with the latinamerican and Caribbean based airlines. NK has learned that lesson both in Central America and the Caribbean already. Also, B6 is gradually making inroads into some of these markets and is a quality LCC. FL will have serious problems if they were to enter into the very limited South American cities that they could operate into.

[Edited 2010-07-14 14:47:37]

User currently onlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4516 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 20):
How many North American tourists would travel to ADZ

Spirit in the past asked for FLL-ADZ service and it demonstrates some interest to attend that untapped market, taking into account the "Open Skies" agreement between US - [CTG/BAQ/SMR/ADZ].
We commented this fact here, but the airline has not materialized the NK FLL-ADZ route.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8824 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4372 times:
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Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 21):
We commented this fact here, but the airline has not materialized the NK FLL-ADZ route.

I wonder why NK hasn't attempted FLL-ADZ? Also, NK was interested in flying FLL-CIX, but for some reason that hasn't materialized. Looks like NK will soon decrease frequency on the FLL-LIM route to a weekly service for the Fall.


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 20):
FL's product is not on par with the latinamerican and Caribbean based airlines. NK has learned that lesson both in Central America and the Caribbean already. Also, B6 is gradually making inroads into some of these markets and is a quality LCC. FL will have serious problems if they were to enter into the very limited South American cities that they could operate into.

They have assigned seating, Biz class, Wifi, more drink choices then any of the other LCC bringing back the buy on board changing the seats inside both 717/737 fleets to leather highly comfortable seats generally great crews. B6 and FL are not comparable to Lan Tam or Avianca but yet B6 and certainly Airtran would be able to do well. Not to mention FL flies to more cites domestically then B6 does.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32897 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4343 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
too far.

Too far? FL can reach northern Brazil with ease with the 73G.

AirTran can reach Manaus, a market where Delta averages less than 45% load factors with only 2-3 flights a week most of the year, with ease. That's about it. The market is tiny and non-existant. And, besides, Brazil-U.S. is closed. No more slots.

There is no market for AirTran in South America. If AirTran had a presence in South Florida, it could attempt to explore some of the markets that aren't closed, but AirTran does not have that strong presence.



a.
25 SCL767 : Most of the foreign airlines do not charge baggage fees, nor offer a buy on-board service. Also, the B717s and B73Gs lack room for cargo. B6 only ope
26 SJOtoLIR : In my view, the lack of demand was a fact against that idea. Chiclayo is basically attending domestic traffic. As far as I know, CIX is not open 24-h
27 SCL767 : Currently, three south american carriers would like to initiate international flights at CIX very soon. Is NK's frequency into LIM similar to that no
28 Atlwest1 : Hence why I said that B6 and FL though interesting products do not compare to south american carriers. Yes true they dont have a south florida presen
29 Post contains images mariner : I think there is a better example. If we'd heard a rumor, a year ago, that Allegiant was going to buy 757's and fly to Hawaii, some would have laughe
30 MAH4546 : But there is actually a market for Minneapolis-London. If AirTran wants to think "out of the box" and start Atlanta-London via Gander, fine. At least
31 mariner : Why would Airtran start any such route from Milwaukee? mariner
32 MAH4546 : I'm just referring to the fact that you can't artifically create demand for a VFR route. Milwaukee, Atlanta, whereever. U.S.-Central America demand i
33 Atlwest1 : Yep thats what they would do. You got it. No seriously Whatever flying they did to that region of the world OBVIOUSLY wouldnt be done from MKE. Three
34 mariner : I didn't think anyone was claiming that you can. I'm sure there's a market from MKE for some Mexican/Caribbean tourist resorts, and there may even be
35 MAH4546 : None viable. All tiny markets to the region, each smaller than the next. Not even ORL has much demand outside of summer traffic from Guatemala/El Sal
36 mariner : And Airtran has a hub at MCO. So if people are "flocking" that would seem to be at least some market. It doesn't have to be daily and it doesn't have
37 MAH4546 : The market is still tiny and highly seasonal - and by seasonal, I'm talking July and August. Is the expense justified for a market which has peak dem
38 N623JB : Let JetBlue start routes into Central and South America. JetBlue is more likely to start more service into those areas than AirTran.(from NYC,Florida
39 MAH4546 : JetBlue has similar problems. Again, South America is closed. Any reasonable market JetBlue wants to open within range from JFK, MCO or even FLL, it
40 N623JB : Well, Avianca operates a A319 from JFK to BOG, I believe. Why cant jetBlue operate the same type of aircraft,as long as they can get it?
41 mariner : And possibly, it is. In this case, I don't know and it isn't where I'd be looking. I think it's all moot until and unless Airtran - or anyone - actua
42 SCL767 : Because the market is CLOSED. Also, B6 cannot transfer their frequencies from the MCO-BOG route over to JFK! AV operates JFK-BOG daily (A319), alongs
43 mariner : Yes. Once again, it was never said in the OP that this would be scheduled service. I think that's right (although I don't know why it is moot). But t
44 Atlwest1 : Well if its closed for Airtran its closed for Jetblue. Airtran is just as likely to start service as Jetblue is. As i said they are getting 50-60 pla
45 Post contains images SCL767 : MAH4546 already listed those above. But if FL really wants to be bold, they can fly FLL-LIM-SCL! I'm sure the flights would be packed!
46 SJOtoLIR : It isn't. When NK FLL-CIX was discussed for the first time, NK FLL-LIM was operating as 14x weekly during the US summer break and 7x weekly the rest
47 RCS763AV : I agree that FL doesn't have any realistic opportunities in South America. The destinations which are in close range to operate from florida and fit t
48 SCL767 : FL cannot compete against the various carriers that already serve KIN; particularly Caribbean Airlines. Check the current schedule. The A332 will ope
49 Atlwest1 : From Orlando maybe not but Bwi is doing well and Atl is doing well.
50 SCL767 : BWI-MBJ is different than a KIN route, (KIN is pure VFR). I guess that's why DL will soon suspend ATL-KIN?
51 MAH4546 : Well, for one thing, there are no frequencies available. Colombia is closed to new routes. And some of those planes will replace current older planes
52 SCL767 : Many domestic flights stay within 150nm of land on most routes overflying the Gulf coast; e.g. WN FLL-HOU, AA's MD-80s which operate PBI/FLL-DFW and
53 MAH4546 : But over-water equipped AA 738s do not. They take the most direct route over the Gulf. Both Southwest and AA MD80 flights have to hug the coast. They
54 Post contains images Atlwest1 : Whooops read your comment as MBJ lol eyes are tired flying all day. No the oldest planes in the fleet are the 717 and they cant hardly be considered
55 Post contains links mariner : According to this thread from 2006, Southwest have at least some aircraft equipped for overwater operations, although not ETOPS, of course: SWA Exten
56 Post contains images SCL767 : I fly this route a lot as well. We seem to fly within at least 175 nm of the coast most of the time. Also, since the F/A's are domestic, are they cer
57 MAH4546 : Correct, they are, and one reason was flying the more direct over-water route from Florida to the Northeast. Oldest does not equal old. American Airl
58 SCL767 : The E190s also operate routes such as: JFK-BDA, MCO-CUN, MCO-MBJ, etc. The E190s will serve as a good a/c for B6's future expansion on FLL-Central Am
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