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Reports: EU Approves OneWorld ATI  
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66D1CB20100714

This is monumentally good news for AA, BA, and Iberia, plus Finnair and Royal Jordanian - if/when US DoT approval arrives, they will now finally be able to operate on a competitive footing against their Star and SkyTeam competitors.

[Edited 2010-07-14 04:22:08]

94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7784 times:
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Very nice news ! Thanks for sharing.

OW customers will be glad that finally airlines will be able to code-share (AA/BA couldn't) and the carriers, to study all ways to increase revenue and reduce costs.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7652 times:

Halle-bloody-lujah ! I would say it's about time but that would be such a massive understatement I won't bother.

I suppose the DOT could still throw a spanner in the works...but I can't see it.   

I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall wherever SRB is right now but I would imagine he knew the writing was on the wall.

[Edited 2010-07-14 05:39:58]


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7606 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):
I wouldn't mind be a fly on the wall wherever SRB is right now but I would imagine he knew the writing was on the wall.

Indeed - I think Branson saw this coming months ago, which is why he has become ever-more-petulant and vocal in the last few months since the initial ruling came out. He does, indeed, see the larger writing on the wall: the world is moving on without him, the market is rapidly eclipsing his little airline, and the public has marginalized his ridiculous antics and comments that might have been cute 20 years ago but now just look stupid.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7597 times:

So how many slots are being ceded here?

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):
I wouldn't mind be a fly on the wall wherever SRB is right now but I would imagine he knew the writing was on the wall.

You can be sure he will not be happy but this was always going to happen and he has been living under a rock if he thought for one minute it was not.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5001 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7519 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 4):


You can be sure he will not be happy but this was always going to happen and he has been living under a rock if he thought for one minute it was not.

It will be interesting to see what VS' next move will be. Say what you want about SRB, but the man is no fool.

Congrats to OW, and it's long overdue.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7487 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
OW customers will be glad that finally airlines will be able to code-share (AA/BA couldn't) and the carriers, to study all ways to increase revenue and reduce costs.

This is absolutely fantastic news! We have been waiting for an entire decade for this relationship to deepen!

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):

It will be interesting to see what VS' next move will be. Say what you want about SRB, but the man is no fool.

This might force VS to join the Star Alliance since LH gobbled up BMI.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7476 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
Say what you want about SRB, but the man is no fool.

Oh agreed. He did not get where he was today being a fool.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
This might force VS to join the Star Alliance since LH gobbled up BMI.

i hope not, I really dont see what VS brings to Star, especially out of LHR. And does Star need his ego in there as well.....yikes!


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7365 times:

The actual EC ruling is found here

Requirements:

"Parties" means AA, BA and Iberia

- Parties must make available up to 3 daily slots for JFK, 2 daily slots for BOS, and 1 each for DFW and MIA
- Parties have to offer fare combinality with competitors (i.e., allow a competitor to sell BA outbound, competitor return)
- Parties have to offer competitive, pro-rated interline connecting traffic for competitors
- Parties have to allow competitors' customers access to their frequent flyer programs in the above four markets plus LON-ORD and MIA-MAD

Interestingly, in the accompanying memo, it states that after 2013, competitors will be able to apply for the 1 LON-DFW or LON-MIA slots if they have not yet been taken up, and use them for 1-stop connecting service through another U.S. and European point - thus, if I'm understanding correctly, after 2013, if no airline has asked for a nonstop LON-DFW or LON-MIA slot, Delta, say, could ask for it and use it to add another LHR-ATL flight, as long as the flight continued on to MIA.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6754 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7337 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
use them for 1-stop connecting service through another U.S

or, for example, perhaps a LON-BDL-DFW on a 757?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 9):
or, for example, perhaps a LON-BDL-DFW on a 757?

But what other airline would ever serve a market like that?

For starters, it is a thin local market LON-BDL to begin with, and only an AA-BA alliance could ever hope to serve that market effectively via the full weight of the LON hub, and beyond that, a 1-stop via BDL is not going to be particularly competitive in the larger LON-DFW market. A substantial portion of that relatively-small market does today stop somewhere, but those are all major hubs, with lots of other connecting flows to balance the traffic.

Having an airline operate a 1-stop over a place like BDL would strike me as a waste of time and effort since that airline would have to rely on a very narrow segment of local traffic for the DFW-BDL market, a very narrow segment of local traffic for the BDL-LON market, and an even more narrow segment of local traffic for DFW-LON.


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7266 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):

- Parties must make available up to 3 daily slots for JFK,

DL or VS?

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
after 2013, if no airline has asked for a nonstop LON-DFW or LON-MIA slot, Delta, say, could ask for it and use it to add another LHR-ATL flight, as long as the flight continued on to MIA.

hmmm I could see someone going after these if that is the case, but is it just flight number or same plane?

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
2 daily slots for BOS

VS?

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 9):

or, for example, perhaps a LON-BDL-DFW on a 757?

It can be LHR-XXX-DFW. LHR-XXX-MIA.



yep.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
DL or VS?

More likely Delta, I'd think. Virgin has actually been trimming their London-New York schedule in the last few years if I remember correctly. Delta, on the other hand, I'm sure would love more London-New York slots (although I'm sure they'd also love to get some more slots on London-Atlanta, too).

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
hmmm I could see someone going after these if that is the case, but is it just flight number or same plane?

Not sure. The memo - at least from what I could see - doesn't go into that level of detail. See as how parochial and outdated regulators can often be, I would be surprised if it actually required same-plane service. Details will probably emerge in the future if it comes to that - although it may not, at least in the case of London-Miami, since that whole 1-stop alternative only kicks in in 2013, and only if another airline hasn't already taken up the 1 London-Miami slot for a nonstop before then. In the case of Miami, I think it is quite possible an airline may ask for a nonstop London-Miami before 2013, whereas for DFW I doubt it.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
VS?

Maybe, although do they really need/want more capacity to Boston?


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7175 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):

More likely Delta, I'd think. Virgin has actually been trimming their London-New York schedule in the last few years if I remember correctly. Delta, on the other hand, I'm sure would love more London-New York slots (although I'm sure they'd also love to get some more slots on London-Atlanta, too).

Ok so i just had this thought.
Delta has AF 3 JFK-LHR slots now(or will in Sep.)
Could Delta buy these 3 slots from AA, then say move the AF slots? If they could I could see them doing 4x JFK-LHR(3x AA/BA slots 1x AF) and 3x ATL-LHR. (or if they want to keep the ATL-LGW flight, 2x DTW/ATL-LHR.)
Could Delta do this?

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):

Maybe, although do they really need/want more capacity to Boston?

Thats what i was thinking......I just don't think anyone will buy these slots. Maybe US or DL for one on a 57?

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
I think it is quite possible an airline may ask for a nonstop London-Miami before 2013

who?

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
whereas for DFW I doubt it.

agreed. If i had to bet, this one will end up DFW-ATL-LHR or DFW-EWR-LHR.



yep.
User currently offlineMcMax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7174 times:

As part of the ruling, EU talks about its consultations with DOT:

"The Commission cooperated closely with the US authorities, in particular the US Department of Transportation."

"Throughout its investigation the Commission has been in close contact with the US Department of Transportation, which is conducting a parallel review under US rules."

Given these statements, it would appear to me DOT's ruling is coming very soon, and DOT isn't going to impose any significant additional restrictions on AA/BA/IB (i.e., ceding more daily slots).

Now the question becomes: how quickly can AA/BA/IB and the other applicable oneworld members implement everything after the ruling is finalized and all legal challenges are dismissed?



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7155 times:

Quoting McMax (Reply 14):

Now the question becomes: how quickly can AA/BA/IB and the other applicable oneworld members implement everything after the ruling is finalized and all legal challenges are dismissed?

The carriers will also have to get a agreement with all of the unions.



yep.
User currently offlineMcMax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7143 times:

Here's the link to the WSJ article (via Google). If the link doesn't work, go into Google, and type EU Clears BA's Alliance with American, Iberia.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...9_o9cC3DWxBvI69HDqnPauuAgD9GURBRO1

No mention by anyone yet, but the WSJ article also says EU approved the BA/IB merger as well.



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7143 times:

Oh now they need to give up 6 pairs instead of 4. I guess, US services will not decrease but I expect the likes of TLS, PSA and VCE to go back to LGW.


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7120 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 17):

7 round trip slots.
3x JFK-LHR
2x BOS-LHR
1x MIA-LHR
1x DFW-LHR.



yep.
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7089 times:
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Whilst the commentors above all assume that three NYC slots could mean additional service that may MAY NOT necessarily be the case.

I do think that Delta will want to apply however there are some provisos I can see

One will BA/AA be able to choose which pairs to give up or will it be the slot allocation board.

Left to BA/AA there is not garrantee the slots will be useful to a competitor whatso ever.

If the slots offered are viable/better than the existing leased AF/KL slot pairs Dl may just adjust there timetable and return those currently used without increasing frequency.

Delta really only need an daytime slot to be competitive now .


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Some additional reporting including the remarks of Joaquín Almunia from the European Commission at the press conference announcing the approval: available here.

One particular comment from his remarks that I did find interesting was this:

Finally, if competitors do not have a frequent flyer programme comparable to the parties, they can offer members of the parties' programmes to earn miles when flying with them on these routes. (bolded emphasis added)

What does that mean? What is a "comparable" frequent flyer program, and who defines that? This is important since, depending on the definition, perhaps AA/BA do not have to allow competitors frequent flyer participation on their flights in these markets. Any airline I can imagine that would have an interest in these markets - short of a new-entrant - would already have a robust frequent flyer program of their own.

Also, BA's Willie Walsh's expectedly-happy statement is here.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
It will be interesting to see what VS' next move will be.

And so it begins:

"We have fought this monster monopoly for the past thirteen years and are still resolute in our belief that this decision is shameful and consumers will suffer greatly as a result of this deal. The European Commission has let consumers down by agreeing to paltry remedies which are wholly inadequate.

"Luckily for the competition authorities, Virgin Atlantic will continue to compete to win passenger and corporate business despite this massively uneven playing field which we are forced to compete on."

Virgin called the concessions offered by the applicants and the final decision were "woefully inadequate. The many shortcomings include too few slot remedies, no requirement for competitors to take up the remedies which means BA/AA can proceed regardless of whether competition is in place and slots which are only available on a limited-duration lease-hold basis thereby disincentivising new entry. All of these factors combined mean that the remedies are unable to address the competitive harm caused by a combined BA/AA."


Quoting rutankrd (Reply 19):
One will BA/AA be able to choose which pairs to give up or will it be the slot allocation board.

Left to BA/AA there is not garrantee the slots will be useful to a competitor whatso ever.

I believe that - at least if things haven't changed from the preliminary finding in March - AA/BA will be able to choose which slots to give up, as long as they are within "commercially viable" times, and they will not be required to give up more than 3 LHR arrival slots before about 0830.

[Edited 2010-07-14 07:09:26]

User currently offlineMcMax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6995 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 20):
I believe that - at least if things haven't changed from the preliminary finding in March - AA/BA will be able to choose which slots to give up, as long as they are within "commercially viable" times, and they will not be required to give up more than 3 LHR arrival slots before about 0830.

Also, aren't the slots leased to the competitors as well?



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlinemarkboston From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6985 times:

I wouldn't be surprised to see AA give up both its BOS-LHR flights.

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2158 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6937 times:

"Given the interest expressed by third parties throughout the Commission's investigation, it seems unlikely that no airline will pick up the commitments.

The commitments are valid for 10 years. In case no airline applies in the first season, the commitments are still available in the following seasons."


Any speculation as to which third parties have "expressed" interest as the press release implies?



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6838 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
It will be interesting to see what VS' next move will be. Say what you want about SRB, but the man is no fool.

Neither is Willie Walsh which is good news for BA.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 15):
The carriers will also have to get a agreement with all of the unions.

Can't speak for the others but I don't think that's now going to be too much of a problem for Britsh Airways.

Cannot VS just carry on being a niche carrier ? I know the situation has changed but there will always be loads of O&D between London and all the 'primo' routes VS serves. I mean it's not as if they're a huge carrier and out on a limb somewhere is it ? They must have a pretty loyal customer base who just prefer the VS image to BA.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
25 LAXdude1023 : About bloody time. I highly doubt anyone is really going to be interested in flying DFW-LHR other than AA and BA. If US or DL (for example) could do L
26 Macsog6 : Does anyone have any idea of the timeline for USDOT approval and 1W's implementation of this? I was given to understand that AA/BA/IB were already gea
27 MAH4546 : Nobody can buy the slots. It is a 10-year lease. AA/BA/IB will continue to own the slots. Furthermore, AA/BA/IB pick which slots to give - so they ca
28 LAXdude1023 : When will the implementation begin?
29 commavia : I would imagine not before March 2011, since that is when the EU says that these imposed conditions will come into effect. In effect - if I'm underst
30 STT757 : I think SRB will be making a big stink about getting as much as they can out of this process, additional NYC-London slots would be at the top of thei
31 MAH4546 : But why would SRB pay AA/BA/IB for a ten-year lease when it already has so many of its own slots leased out? Besides, rule 1.1.3 rules out AA/BA givi
32 FlyCaledonian : Steve Ridgeway is quoted on BBC News website as saying VS will NOT lease any slots from AA/BA - it doesn't believe it should have to "pay" to compete
33 commavia : Plus, perhaps I'm remembering this wrong, or getting the preliminary EU versus DoT rulings mixed up, but wasn't there somewhere a statement that any
34 Post contains links DFWEagle : The full details of the "commitments" is here : http://ec.europa.eu/competition/anti...es/dec_docs/39596/39596_3882_2.pdf
35 AAExecPlat : Firstly, as a long time AA frequent flyer, this is music to my ears. I can't count the number of times when it would have been advantageous to fly TAT
36 runway23 : The EC took that point too. In fact for the JFK-LHR part, DL cannot apply for slots if it has more slots in its portfolio than AA/BA/IB. I think the
37 vv701 : Not unless AA decide they want to sell them to DL. The requirement is for BA/AA to lease the slots. As I understand it the leases may start at any ti
38 OzarkD9S : VS' basic reaction statement, I didn't expect anything less. My thoughts now go to what VS' next real move will be: alliance announcement/merger anno
39 DFWEagle : No, the times of the slots that must be given up are determined by the recipients. AA/BA must release a slot within a maximum of one hour of what is
40 danfearn77 : Love him or hate him he has a good airline in VS. An airline i would and do choose time and again over BA and others.
41 FWAERJ : The 3 JFK and 2 BOS will all go to DL, IMO. In good part because DL wants more LHR slots and flights. MIA could go to DL as well, or possibly a Star
42 DFWEagle : It's worth noting that no NYC-LHR slot pairs will actually be released unless either VS, DL or CO reduces their NYC-LHR schedule below what is planned
43 vv701 : It is not surprising that VS will not lease any AA/BA slots but not for the reasons stated by Steve Ridgeway. Between the end of March 2009 and the en
44 MAH4546 : No, it won't. First of all, Delta can't acquire any slots for LHR-JFK for two reasons: it has more JFK slots than AA/BA/IB do, so that throws them ou
45 timberwolf24 : If I understand this correctly, UA would not be able to get a slot to add lets say a 4th flight to ORD that would continue on to DFW?
46 DFWEagle : I believe that condition only applies to the JFK slots themselves, meaning if DL successfully applied for JFK-LHR they would get an extra slot at LHR
47 avek00 : Virgin Atlantic, in its current form, has been living on borrowed time since the day the USA - EU Open Skies agreement went into effect. Be rest assu
48 commavia : As much as I would love to see BA get its hands on the Virgin slots at Heathrow - think of the bolstered hub they could build - I don't see that happ
49 avek00 : I don't think any obstacles to a BA/Virgin merger are potentially insurmountable. The antitrust concerns can be allayed by concessions that spring in
50 mikey72 : The ridiculous thing is that SRB is the only one keeping this silly vendetta alive between VS and BA. All the people involved in all that skulduggery
51 UAL777UK : I agree. People may say its all history but the bad blood between them runs deep, especially with SRB and I just cannot see him selling out to them..
52 mikey72 : Ahh though, VS would become a part of International Airlines Group !! Surely a much less 'bitter' pill to swallow ? No more than IB or BA will go the
53 UAL777UK : Because in that instance that brand is right in BA's back yard ala LHR. I just cannot see the two totally separate brands working side by side each o
54 vv701 : Neither does BA offer F on its long haul 763 fleet - some of which operate on the same routes as their 744s (all of which do have an F class cabin).
55 mikey72 : That's all very well and good but why change anything ? Wouldn't that be the beauty of it ? Lots of synergies would be possible without changing the
56 Sketty222 : I've heard revenue sharing has to happen within 3 months of ATI being granted by both EU and US I believe they will look at what works best at the 3
57 LAXdude1023 : What is the next step to ATI being granted now that they have approval from the US and EU?
58 Sketty222 : They dont actually have approval fromt he US yet. It was given tentatively a couple of months ago but it hasn't yet been signed off by the DoT. Hopef
59 mikey72 : They've had long enough to think about it. I'm sure they know what they're going to do ! What I want to know is what this other airline is that Willi
60 commavia : I suspect that - while they haven't yet been able to legally discuss the specifics of how the alliance will take shape, how the JV will be structured
61 UAL777UK : To place it into a more globally recognised brand and succesful airline maybe?
62 Post contains images fxramper : Any idea when DOT will officially rule on ATI? Analysts cut AMR estimates for 2Q2010 from $.10/share to -$.03/share yesterday.
63 mikey72 : Word is within hours/days of the EC announcement. They've been working quite closely on this by all accounts. Forget I said USair, I know that's impo
64 avek00 : I think you are placing too much value on the dispositive effect of SRB's emotions. Every other notion held by SRB/Virgin Atlantic -- most notably, t
65 Scotron11 : yeah....they tried a while ago to do a merger....maybe this time it would "fly"?? How about AY or a South American/Mexican carrier? cheers
66 mikey72 : LOL - How come when you say it nobody says anything. But when I say it all I get is 'yes but we're so lucky to have 2 quality carriers at LHR blah bl
67 DCA-ROCguy : Threads about BA-AA ATI are always entertaining, not only for the way the knives come out for Branson (I think some people here must have Branson voo
68 commavia : Nobody is saying or "assuming" that. No argument. And nobody is suggesting that we do away with competition. First, there are two kinds of slots that
69 LAXdude1023 : Are you kidding? LHR is one of the most competitive market places from the US.
70 Post contains images mikey72 : Smooth sailing ! Who are you kidding ? 15 years in the making and waiting whilst others are merrily granted ATI willy nilly. I don't think so. Do you
71 DCA-ROCguy : Mikey72 did quite specifically in Reply 66, which is why I quoted his text. He said that the presence of Virgin Atlantic just "creates bad feelings"
72 mikey72 : TOUGH..... is what I say to that.
73 commavia : Well, I do think - personally - that the long-term strategic public policy of the U.K. as a country would be better served by Virgin ceasing to exist
74 LHRFlyer : With competition increasingly on an alliance basis, the market is going to be tough for Virgin. It's much harder for them to be distinctive when other
75 mikey72 : But it's happening before your very eyes. VS is great and I don't want to see them go anywhere but in the long run it was never going to work out for
76 DCA-ROCguy : Not a joke at all. It seems to me that BA and AA are not innocent victims. They could have had approval years ago, had they supported ending or modif
77 commavia : Not sure where you're getting that idea from. AA and BA have supported a U.S.-U.K. Open Skies from day 1, since they knew that their alliance getting
78 Post contains images Sketty222 : I didn't say that but I think QF may be a good aquisition. They operate trans-pacific so effectively IAG would have money in two of the main markets.
79 DCA-ROCguy : Good to know, and I apologize for the error. What were the exact numbers of slots required? What do you mean by "deep?" It seems to me that pre "Open
80 mikey72 : Has it ? Scraping by every year on a relatively tiny profit. What's the point ? They're not market driven..it's always been just this endless battle
81 Viscount724 : Why not? I would expect that with Ghana being a former British colony, there must be a significant O&D traffic to/from the UK, and Ghana has been
82 mikey72 : Well I just don't think it's the way forward for the UK civil aviation industry. Relative to a single operation it's not practical, it's costly, it l
83 MAH4546 : You lost me at "environmentally acceptable," which makes your argument into something from a hippie/communist-Green Peace propaganda flyer. Competiti
84 mikey72 : Yeah sure it's great to have 4 half empty aircraft rather than 2 full aircraft. It's not rocket science. Yes it most certainly is. When it's market d
85 MAH4546 : Show me the load factors - I find it hard to believe planes between London and Accra are empty. Planes aren't flying empty - long-haul flights are of
86 Flight209 : Regarding the LHR slots that AA/BA/IB would have to make available for lease, would only EU and US airlines be allowed to lease the slots, or would an
87 Post contains images mikey72 : I'm not just talking about Accra, that was just an example I plucked out of thin air ! Over capacity - they're full of people paying next to nothing
88 MAH4546 : You seem to have serious issues with free market principles. BA and VS are free to do what they want, how they want it, and adjust their business how
89 mikey72 : Oh really, there seems to be alot that BA wants to do that VS want to try and stop because of their own shortcomings. I don't have any problem with f
90 mikey72 : Sorry I think I meant 'indulged'
91 commavia : I completely agree that BA and VS have the right to do what they want and respond to the market how they see fit. To date, BA seems to have tried to
92 Post contains images mikey72 : That was my point exactly. However, I do think VS has done what it can and is a good airline, I just get annoyed when like you say they constantly tr
93 BOACCunard : What would the point of that be, exactly?
94 mikey72 : Apart from bringing onside the global airline phenomenon that is Virgin and sparing us all from another 25 years of ''look what big bad BA/AA did to
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