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Turkish Reveals IAD Plans  
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4774 posts, RR: 43
Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9027 times:

Dear All,

This is to inform you that Turkish Airlines has officially revealed on the GDS system that it shall be finally undertaking its planned launch to IAD-Washington DC from this winter onwards.

TK will be operating 5 weekly nonstop flights from its IST hub to IAD using an Airbus A 330-200. This is expected to be increased to daily nonstop flights within a year. The flight schedule is as follows:

Days of operation: TUE/WED/THU/FRI/SUN

TK 007 Dep IST 1050 Arr IAD 1525
TK 008 Dep IAD 2255 Arr IST 1610+1

The above mentioned flight schedule is similar to its ORD timings hence allows for perfect connections in both directions via IST to GCC, Saudi Arabia, India, KHI, Levant region, Central Asia and its entire North/East/South African network.

Finally some real competition to QR on the IAD-GCC/India/KHI routes in particular.

Rgds
Behramjee

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2183 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8916 times:

Good news for IAD. Makes sense as a Star Alliance hub. Good luck to TK, I hear their hard product is really great.


next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4371 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8858 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
Good news for IAD. Makes sense as a Star Alliance hub. Good luck to TK, I hear their hard product is really great.

Strangely enough, given moves by UA and especially more recent moves by CO to offer nonstop access to Star partner hubs, and the lack of ATI between TK and UA/CO, I wouldn't be surprised if TK's move was somewhat defensive to forestall UA's entry into the Washington - Istanbul market (or even the USA - Istanbul market generally).



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25202 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8818 times:

Not mentioned in OP'er post, flight is effective Nov 7th.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 2):
I wouldn't be surprised if TK's move was somewhat defensive to forestall UA's entry into the Washington - Istanbul market (or even the USA - Istanbul market generally).

United has not displayed any interest in serving Istanbul on its own, while CO has paid a formal visit prior to joining Star and was considering SAW service, but now being in Star I am sure those plans are different.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2968 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8689 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Not mentioned in OP'er post, flight is effective Nov 7th.

is that due to the delivery schedule of their new widebodies?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
United has not displayed any interest in serving Istanbul on its own, while CO has paid a formal visit prior to joining Star and was considering SAW service, but now being in Star I am sure those plans are different.

quite intersting that they would even consider SAW as a destination!


User currently offlinepilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8406 times:

awesome! I'm goıng to request IAD all the time  )


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4428 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8374 times:

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 5):

Hi Pilotaydin,
It says IAD will be a 332 route. I am sure somedays we will see 343. Any info if 333 will make this route? Is there going to be any seperate crews at TK for 333, or 332/343/333 crews will be interchangeable.
Thanks.


User currently offlinepilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8338 times:

Hey there, we fly the 330 and 340 at the same time so we can fly each model with no problems !!

İ love going there on a 340 and returning on a 330 when i fly i get time in both



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineMSN007 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
Finally some real competition to QR on the IAD-GCC/India/KHI routes in particular.

Is TK a five star airline? I would think QR have a better offering as far as equipment and service.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8299 times:

exactly....SAW is soooo freaking far from downtown (i know cuz i'm booked on a domestic flight in Sept that is only available via SAW)

a similar analogy would be opening LHR-MFM and calling it "Greater Hong Kong"

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 4):
quite intersting that they would even consider SAW as a destination!


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8226 times:

Quoting MSN007 (Reply 8):
Is TK a five star airline? I would think QR have a better offering as far as equipment and service.

I would think that TK can do quite well especially connecting folks to places like BEY, DAM, AMM and other cities in Asia Minor and the Caucasus (which QR can not do)


User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2968 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8183 times:

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 7):
Hey there, we fly the 330 and 340 at the same time so we can fly each model with no problems !!

İ love going there on a 340 and returning on a 330 when i fly i get time in both

let me know when you get it, I'll gladly join you as a guest  
Quoting MSN007 (Reply 8):
Is TK a five star airline

nope, just four stars which is also sometimes very arguable  
regarding the food of course they are the best in the world!

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
SAW is soooo freaking far from downtown (i know cuz i'm booked on a domestic flight in Sept that is only available via SAW)

I'm curious to know which destinations this would be in Turkey?

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 10):
I would think that TK can do quite well especially connecting folks to places like BEY, DAM, AMM and other cities in Asia Minor and the Caucasus (which QR can not do)

on the one hand you are able to connect the people to those places but on the other hand you also have to ask if there is such a need? any info about the demographics of Washington, DC and surrounding?


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8114 times:

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 11):
on the one hand you are able to connect the people to those places but on the other hand you also have to ask if there is such a need? any info about the demographics of Washington, DC and surrounding?

Washington DC has a large Lebanese community (throughout Virginia suburbs) in addition to the fact that the DC area is home to a lot of international organizations, embassies, etc etc....You will be surprised how much traffic there is this part of the world - Let's not even forget Iraq bound contractors!!


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4271 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8061 times:
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Quoting MSN007 (Reply 8):
Is TK a five star airline? I would think QR have a better offering as far as equipment and service.

QR has one of the most *diverse* followings I've ever seen, and they have many fans in the DC area.

So, I suspect QR and TK will be serving different demographics.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25202 posts, RR: 48
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8042 times:

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 4):
quite intersting that they would even consider SAW as a destination!

Yes in 2008 they were looking closely at 762 service. The folks at SAW can put together a pretty attractive package. Being in Skyteam prior, Istanbul would be purely a spoke and there was no need or real possibility to feed TK at IST anyhow.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 9):
SAW is soooo freaking far from downtown

Don't let Istanbul traffic confuse or exaggerate the distance to you.
Yes SAW away from the central old portions of Istanbul, but its still in the very dense Asian residential side of Istanbul which itself has significant commerce activity, and continues to gain popularity both with the general public and business as its so much closer to them than IST located on the European side.

SAW is no way Ryanair style distant secondary airport, being very much still inside the Istanbul municipality boundaries.

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 11):
any info about the demographics of Washington, DC and surrounding?

It has the largest Ethiopian/Eritrean community in the US - estimated at 200,000. Some good feed for ADD flight.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMSN007 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7990 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 14):
It has the largest Ethiopian/Eritrean community in the US - estimated at 200,000. Some good feed for ADD flight.

I think ADD is already served by BA, LH, KLM and now daily direct by ET so not sure how much is left for TK.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25202 posts, RR: 48
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7958 times:

Quoting MSN007 (Reply 15):
I think ADD is already served by BA, LH, KLM and now daily direct by ET so not sure how much is left for TK.

Europe-India is full of airlines also, but TK does quite well with connections there also.

IAD-ADD, TK will do just fine by offering nice 90-120min connections and as always very competitive fares.

Fast forward 1 year, I'd even willing to venture TK will be in the top-3 of all potential IAD-ADD of providers.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4774 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

They will though get a lot of high yielding J class political/military/oil traffic to their core markets of Central Asia (TAS/GYD/ALA) and Levant region (AMM CAI DAM BEY)...not to mention O&D to IST as well.

This flight timing is similar to their ORD schedule and hence connects beautifully via IST in both directions to Middle East, UAE, KWI, DOH, IRAN, SAUDI ARABIA, BOM, DEL, KHI, BKK, SIN, ADD, JNB/CPT, KRT, Levant region and Central Asia.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4428 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7741 times:

We were talking about this in "Turkish Aviation" threads recently, that soon TK will have 5 N.American cities and how this will affect overall loads. (JFK, ORD, YYZ, IAD and eventually LAX). 75% or more of this traffic might be transfers.

User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

That's a bunch of time on the ground in IAD, they could almost continue the flight somewhere else in the USA. Something like IST-IAD-DEN-IAD-IST. Not gonna happen I know but that's a lot of down time.


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7717 times:

Is there a chance TK might serve SFO, BOS, or MIA in the near future? I think those cities could support such flights. I mean if TK wants to be more than an "ethnic" carrier and become a true global carrier like LH, AF, BA or KL, than it should consider these. Same goes for EK by the way.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25202 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 19):
but that's a lot of down time.

Schedules are built to maximize connectity at the IST end. No different then US airlines going and sitting all day long in South American, Asia etc..

Quoting miaintl (Reply 20):
s there a chance TK might serve SFO, BOS, or MIA in the near future?

Maybe one day BOS as its become the 5th largest US-Turkey market. TK got burned pretty bad with Miami last time so I don't see that happening anytime soon, while SFO market is only 50% of the size of LA.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 20):
TK wants to be more than an "ethnic" carrier

I'm not sure what you mean by "ethnic". Many flights including some to Europe and most to Asia carry more foreigners then Turks, while many stations have higher local sales then sales originating in Turkey, so TK is no longer the ethnic Turkish guest worker airline from the 1970s.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4428 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7661 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 20):
if TK wants to be more than an "ethnic" carrier

Huh?

Here is the TK pax numbers from the first half of 2010 from TK's website:

15.07.2010
Traffic results for the period of January-June 2010 are as follows:
During the period of January-June 2010 total passenger carried has increased by 19,3%, reaching to 13.4 million passengers from 11.2 million passengers for the same period of 2009. International Business Class and international to international transit passengers increased by 35,2% and 25,6% respectively for the same period.
L/F increased by 3.1 point to 74,2%.
ASK with 19,9% increase reached to 30.3 bn during the period January-June 2010 from 25.3 bn for the same period of 2009.
RPK with 26,8% increase reached to 21.9 bn during the period of January-June 2010 from 17.2 bn for the same period of 2009.
Number of landing 98.160 for the period of January-June 2009 has increased to 114.370 in 2010 ( 16,5%).
Cargo/Mail carried during the period of January-June 2010 reached to 151.791 tons from 101.449 tons in 2009 ( 49,6%).


Out of that 13.4 million half is domestic, and the rest is international which includes about 3 mil. transfer pax. All kinds of ethnic pax. An Irish man flying DUB-IST-HKG, an American flying ORD-IST-RIX.
I don't get your "true global" definition. TK flies to over 160 destinations, that is 40 more than KL. I think that is pretty "ethnic", "true global", don't you think?


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

TK only flies to places that have large Turkish immigrant popluations and Mid-eastern populations. They need those demagraphics to make their flights work. However LH, AF, KL dont need large european populations to make their flights work. They are true global carriers because they are not loyal to a certain ethnic group and they dont need certain demographics to make their flights a success. Keep in mind everything that i say here only refers to the United States and not other regions of the world. When it comes to other regions of the world, TK certanily is a global carrier, but here in the USA its still an ethnic carrier.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4979 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7618 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Maybe one day BOS as its become the 5th largest US-Turkey market. TK got burned pretty bad with Miami last time so I don't see that happening anytime soon, while SFO market is only 50% of the size of LA.

I wonder if under a looser Canadian bilateral, if TK would try YUL and YYZ, as both have large middle eastern immigrant numbers


25 miaintl : On a separate note, i wonder why TK got burned badly in MIA. Was the demogralics not in its favor? Because keep in mind that was 10 years ago, so i fi
26 MAH4546 : I have a close friend at TK who I will actually be seeing soon since she is coming to California for some marketing for the pending LAX route, and sh
27 miaintl : Mark, do you know if EK is planning to start service to MIA soon? I remeber you mentioning soem months ago that MIA might likely be their next US dest
28 The777Man : So LAX will be served by a 77W ? The777Man
29 LAXintl : If that was the case TK would not be serving tons of destination. I don't know of many Turks in PEK, PVG, KIX, NRT, much of Africa or even all 10 odd
30 alphaomega : Interesting that they will be using a 332 on this route - their initial plans called for a 773 3x weekly and starting back on July 5th. Maybe just par
31 kgaiflyer : Yes, but it works both ways. Remember that QR started out with 346's. That was too much aircraft, and they gauged **down** to 772's
32 miaintl : If that is the case LAXintl, then why does not TK serve MIA? Surely if demographics have nothing to do with it, then Miami should be on the flight pla
33 alphaomega : They started with 346s and then changed to the 773s (which is what they currently operate) eliminating their first class product from the route and i
34 LAXintl : They lost millions on Miami prior and much of the same management team is still around. Also Miami has gotten a bit of a black eye in Turkey the resu
35 ju068 : Are we talking about Qatar and Dulles? Is the 773 the only one that flies the route as I remember when I landed at Dulles a few weeks ago there was a
36 alphaomega : Yes, and you will frequently find various QR aircraft there for diplomatic or royal family trips. Qatar Amiri operate A345, A332, and A310 aircraft i
37 MAH4546 : But the difference today is Turkish' absolutely phoenomenal growth in it's Istanbul hub operation which allows them to tap into traffic from Miami to
38 kgaiflyer : Ah, so. I stand corrected.
39 BOStonsox : It's nice to see that people here think BOS could get service from TK. IST never struck me as a possible Eastern European market from BOS (VIE and WAW
40 MAH4546 : I wouldn't think of it as a likely possibility at all. Although given IST's large hub size, it makes a lot more sense than BOS-VIE/WAW. In the Northe
41 BOStonsox : The IST hub is pretty big, but I was thinking more in terms of O&D. I imagine VIE and WAW would have more O&D from BOS than IST would. VIE ha
42 bahadir : Vienna and Warsaw are not as big destinations as Istanbul is.. Once again, my bet is BOS might be a better destination than MIA in the future for TK.
43 MAH4546 : Pretty sure BOS-IST is bigger than both. VIE-USA is a very weak market. Good demand to CHI, WAS, NYC, MIA, SFO and LAX; not much else. For WAW, remov
44 Post contains images stylo777 : what about DTW and IAH as possible candidates? regarding ethic travel DTW has one of the biggest Arab community in the US. this would feed TK system e
45 LAXintl : Well you know the IAH Airport folks keep knocking at the door of the Turkish Consulate in Houston with information. You never know being a Star hub.
46 Turkish350XWB : As far as i know, they are planning a 2nd daily JFK flight. By the way: TK posted the launch of IAD on their website...
47 stylo777 : on certain days they are actually operationg two flights. TK011 is departing on days 2-4-7 at 16:30 arriving JFK 21:00h. the return departs JFK at 23
48 Turkish350XWB : Exactly! And with the arrival of the B77W they wanted to make this flight daily, to provide connection to DEl and BOM for instance
49 TK787 : Come to think of it, staying on the ground at IAD for 7+ hours, this route will definitely require two frames. I wonder how TK can spare 2 x 332s and
50 WesternA318 : When does this new service start?
51 LAXintl : Its not really two airplanes as the route can be paired with another route -- like India. So at the of the day, you can run two markets with two plan
52 ju068 : Is there a possibility that the lease might be extended? Maybe not for all the frames but like two at least?
53 LAXintl : see
54 TK787 : It might work with the initial 5 x weekly, I was more concerned about when it becomes daily. Well I am no math genius, but I crunched some numbers an
55 BOStonsox : Who's flying BOS-IST? It's not tourists, it's not an ethnic flight, that leaves business. Maybe business is larger than I think it is.
56 MAH4546 : Actually, yes, it probably is tourists - American tourists who use Istanbul as a departure point for Mediterranean cruises. That contributes a lot of
57 LAXintl : It works quite well. For instance IAD-IST arrive: 1610 IST-DEL depart: 1845 DEL-IST arrive: 0910 IST-IAD depart: 1050 This is exactly how the YYZ and
58 TK787 : Yes, I know. I looked at the numbers in detail but like I explained, two frames are not enough to do both IST-IAD and IST-DEL if IAD becomes daily. T
59 LAXintl : Sure it is. Why would it not? You are thinking about this too literally. Aircraft scheduling is very dynamic - what I showed as an example might invo
60 BOStonsox : Where'd you get that data? I would love to see what int'l traffic numbers are from BOS and other places.
61 behramjee : How does TK perform on its B 77Ws to BKK and HKG? In particular to HKG any idea? I'm sure BKK would be getting decent loads at low yields but for HKG
62 Post contains links LAXintl : MIDT and BSP data. BKK is ripe for double daily, and TK actually even published a schedule with a 2nd flight late in 2008 in the midst of the fuel cr
63 MSJYOP28Apilot : With JED, BAH, RUH, DKR, DXB, KWI, IST, DOH, ADD, ACC, JNB all served from IAD, will we see CAI, AUH, AMM or TLV service soon? I wouldnt be surprised
64 kgaiflyer : Emirates *would* be a real game-changer. Ironically, IAD only has one A380 gate -- and EK would have to share it with AF and LH.
65 MSJYOP28Apilot : I doubt there will be enough capacity to DXB to merit an A380 especially with UA sending a 777 on the route. I think EY would come to IAD with AUH se
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