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AA / BA / IB ATI Impact  
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6350 times:

JFK-LHR: Shuttle service
ORD-LHR: Near shuttle service
MIA-LHR: More seats
DFW-LHR: More seats (BA has already announced 744 service)
ORD-MAN: More seats
DFW-MAN: New (old) route
DFW-MAD: Shift to IB
ORD-BHX: New (old) route
ORD-GLA: New (old) route - seasonal

The above are the most realistic "news items" I have heard from friends at AA HQ in Ft. Worth.

Thoughts?

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1054 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6331 times:

Look for Virgin Atlantic to announce DFW-LHR service.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
JFK-LHR: Shuttle service
ORD-LHR: Near shuttle service
MIA-LHR: More seats
DFW-LHR: More seats (BA has already a

I could envision the higher-density shuttle and/or hub-to-hub schedules looking something like this:

JFK

Eastbound:

08:00 BA 747
09:00 AA 777
18:00 BA 747
18:30 AA 777
19:00 BA 747
20:00 BA 747
21:00 BA 747
21:30 AA 777
22:00 BA 777
23:00 BA 777
23:30 AA 777

Westbound:

07:30 BA 747
09:00 AA 777
10:00 BA 747
11:30 BA 747
12:30 BA 777
13:55 AA 777
15:30 BA 777
16:30 BA 747
18:00 AA 777
19:30 BA 747
20:30 AA 777

ORD

Eastbound:

09:00 AA 767
17:00 BA 747
18:00 AA 777
19:00 AA 777
20:45 BA 777
21:45 AA 777

Westbound:

07:55 AA 767
10:00 AA 777
11:30 BA 747
12:30 AA 777
14:55 BA 777
16:55 AA 777

BOS

Eastbound:

08:30 BA 747
18:00 BA 747
19:45 BA 747
21:45 BA 777

Westbound:

08:20 BA 747
11:45 BA 747
14:20 BA 777
18:55 BA 747

MIA

Eastbound:

17:00 BA 747
18:30 AA 777
20:30 BA 747
21:55 AA 777 Sat

Westbound:

09:55 BA 747
11:55 AA 777
13:55 BA 747
15:55 AA 777 Sat

DFW

Eastbound:

17:00 BA 747
19:00 AA 777
21:00 AA 767

Westbound:

10:30 AA 777
11:55 BA 747
14:30 AA 767

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
ORD-MAN: More seats

Maybe, but I think more likely they'll just end up making JFK-MAN year-round and operate both side-by-side with 757s.

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
DFW-MAN: New (old) route

Highly doubt it. The market isn't there - just as it wasn't the last time they tried.

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
DFW-MAD: Shift to IB

Seems logical/likely. An A340 would be a perfect fit for this stellar-performing route.

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
ORD-BHX: New (old) route
ORD-GLA: New (old) route - seasonal

Maybe.

Although, personally, both of those markets to me would seem to be better fits for JFK versus ORD. Although, with slots being at such a premium at JFK, maybe they would do them with 757s from ORD.

Quoting milemaster (Reply 1):
Look for Virgin Atlantic to announce DFW-LHR service.

  


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6266 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
DFW-MAN: New (old) route

If MAN gets another U.S. route, it would likely be the return of the Miami route. Significantly larger local market (MIA-MAN during the winter is not much smaller than DFW-LON, which is a surprisingly small local market), not to mention the Caribbean connections.



a.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6198 times:
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Quoting commavia (Reply 2):

MIA

Eastbound:

17:00 BA 747
18:30 AA 777
20:30 BA 747
21:55 AA 777 Sat

Westbound:

09:55 BA 747
11:55 AA 777
13:55 BA 747
15:55 AA 777 Sat

I hope that AA operates MIA-LHR 10x weekly, (B772).


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 729 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6138 times:

I believe if AA/BA add another MIA-LHR flight it will be a daylight MIA-LHR and late night LHR-MIA return.

This would maximize the connections at MIA as well as provide a very new option for local traffic.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6102 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
MIA

Eastbound:

17:00 BA 747
18:30 AA 777
20:30 BA 747
21:55 AA 777 Sat

Westbound:

09:55 BA 747
11:55 AA 777
13:55 BA 747
15:55 AA 777 Sat

MIA-LHR is prime for a fourth daily, and could probably work at 5x daily during the winter.

The second AA frequency is ThFrSa during October-April.



a.
User currently offlinescutfarcus From United States of America, joined May 2000, 387 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6095 times:

This may be a wee bit off topic, but does this ATI thing impact the crazy non-reciprocity rule that AA and BA have regarding earning FF miles on transatlantic flights? That's always driven me nuts...

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6073 times:
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Quoting AJMIA (Reply 5):
I believe if AA/BA add another MIA-LHR flight it will be a daylight MIA-LHR and late night LHR-MIA return.

AA please operate a daylight on MIA-LHR! The MIA-EZE daylight is awesome!


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6048 times:

Quoting scutfarcus (Reply 7):
This may be a wee bit off topic, but does this ATI thing impact the crazy non-reciprocity rule that AA and BA have regarding earning FF miles on transatlantic flights? That's always driven me nuts...

Yes. AA/BA mileage earning should be in place by October 31st.

Although, to note, it was only on U.S.-London flights.

You can earn BA miles on ORD-MAN and AA miles on MEX-LHR, for example.



a.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6042 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Yes. AA/BA mileage earning should be in place by October 31st.

What about VIP upgrades?


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 729 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
What about VIP upgrades?



That is something that has not been discussed because we do not have ATI.

Once ATI is fully in place we will be hearing a lot about ff agreements, upgrades, baggage allowance, policy & procedure changes, staff travel, etc...

It will be interesting to see if AA EVIP upgrades will be good on BA & IB.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7320 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
If MAN gets another U.S. route, it would likely be the return of the Miami route. Significantly larger local market (MIA-MAN during the winter is not much smaller than DFW-LON, which is a surprisingly small local market),

Well, AA gets about 140 PDEW between DFW and LHR. They dont get the whole market and you have to take into consideration BA also gets a chunk of the O&D (Im not sure what they get). I wouldnt call whats at least 200 PDEW tiny.

Either way, DFW-MAN isnt in the cards.

[Edited 2010-07-15 21:29:46]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5852 times:
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Quoting AJMIA (Reply 11):
It will be interesting to see if AA EVIP upgrades will be good on BA & IB.

I hope they will or I might as well use BA instead, since I'm PLT for life with AA. I don't even use my AAdvantage Frequent Flyer card with LAN anymore. I usually pay full-fare Business on LAN since I love throwing money at that airline! Of course, AA realizes this; and they even sent me an evoucher! AA knows I fly AA56/AA57, AA68/AA69, AA957/AA912, (since the crew is based in SCL), AA1647/AA1668, and now AA961/AA964 frequently. Aren't those the type of customers AA wants to keep? I surely hope so!


User currently offlinejersey777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5674 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):

I hope this isn't true because that would mean we would lose one JFK-LHR for AA. I thought that ATI was supposed to make AA grow!!!!


User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5661 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
Although, with slots being at such a premium at JFK, maybe they would do them with 757s from ORD.

Consolidation of BA and AA terminals at JFK? Is it possible...like what they did with the old TWA terminal?

And have all the OneWorld carriers under one roof!


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5526 times:

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 15):
Consolidation of BA and AA terminals at JFK? Is it possible...like what they did with the old TWA terminal?

I dont think BA would want to move as they own the Teminal and UA lease from them AFAIK and you cannot of course accomodate AA there as they have a nice terminal for themselves.

Certainly having a "shuttle service" and much closer ties, it would make sense to be all under one roof but I think it would be one hell of a game of musical chairs for that to hapoen.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32173 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 16):
Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 15):
Consolidation of BA and AA terminals at JFK? Is it possible...like what they did with the old TWA terminal?

I dont think BA would want to move as they own the Teminal and UA lease from them AFAIK and you cannot of course accomodate AA there as they have a nice terminal for themselves.

BA already announced its intention to move to T8 a few months ago. BA is working with AA and JFK officials to build an annexation to T8.



a.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Quoting jersey777 (Reply 14):
I hope this isn't true because that would mean we would lose one JFK-LHR for AA. I thought that ATI was supposed to make AA grow!

ATI will facilitate growth at AA, but not necessarily in the same markets, or with the same frequencies, already operated. For example, I fully expect AA to add multiple new destinations in Europe post-ATI.

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 15):
Consolidation of BA and AA terminals at JFK? Is it possible...like what they did with the old TWA terminal?

Not only is it possible, but that very thing is being examined. Basically the plan being discussed is for T8 to be finished out, and the to-be-finished portion would effectively become an entire BA "terminal within a terminal."


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5080 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

Quoting milemaster (Reply 1):
Look for Virgin Atlantic to announce DFW-LHR service.

Why?

DFW seems more of a conection airport - why would VS fly there?


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5445 times:

AA GLA.... . Welcome back !

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 5221 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
BA already announced its intention to move to T8 a few months ago. BA is working with AA and JFK officials to build an annexation to T8.

Missed that one which makes great sense. so whose going to replace BA at their current terminal?


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5062 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
BA already announced its intention to move to T8 a few months ago. BA is working with AA and JFK officials to build an annexation to T8.

Wow, that's the end of an era !



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2300 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 22):
Wow, that's the end of an era !

To be honest, T7 is very crowded. I don't find it to be a nice terminal. The TSA entrance is awkward, and the whole setup is not very user friendly. Let's not even get into the allocation of airline check-in counters in that terminal. It's just all over the pace.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 23):
To be honest, T7 is very crowded. I don't find it to be a nice terminal. The TSA entrance is awkward, and the whole setup is not very user friendly. Let's not even get into the allocation of airline check-in counters in that terminal. It's just all over the pace.

Well I suppose like the rest of us it's starting to get on a bit ! I think I just like it because I love NYC, was always very excited arriving at JFK. I know what you mean though, it is a bit all over the place and security is a nightmare.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
25 LHRFlyer : I think it will be some time before we see more AA/BA flights from the UK regions (if it all). What will be interesting to see is whether some existin
26 commavia : I'm not so sure. I think there are several regions markets that could be viable from JFK and/or ORD quite soon. I think the most immediately likely m
27 JFKPurser : I heard that AA's JFK-LHR frequencies were going back up to 6x daily as of October.
28 david_itl : You may think that but you will be surprised. I am at who is being touted to provded extra capacity to ORD ex-MAN, and other airlines operate into th
29 GlobalCabotage : MIA-MAN should have been on my list.
30 Post contains images bigGSFO : How about secondary markets to/from Spain? MIA-BCN JFK-AGP JFK-VLC ORD-BCN DFW-BCN How about MIA-IBZ? Talk about a hung over, tweeked out flight on th
31 LAXdude1023 : MIA-BCN: Could work nicely JFK-AGP/VLC: Interesting concept. Maybe a 757 route. ORD-BCN: Doubtful, but not that far-fetched DFW-BCN: Even more doubtf
32 FCO110 : Wont AA potentially lose business traffic to BA with the superior product? ie lie flat? Also connecting AA to BA in LHR is so time consuming (vs. BRU)
33 N62NA : I have no idea if they are planning on doing the daylight MIA-LHR, but I sure hope they will!
34 JFKPurser : This is going to force AA management to take a good look at all aspects of their premium product. The FC 777 Flagship Suites need a major overhaul. A
35 MAH4546 : Doesn't matter. It is a joint-business venture, so all BA-IB flights will be profit-shared with AA and visa-versa. Besides, AA is working on a new J
36 SATexan : On a related note, I would love for AA/BA to explore the viability of new destinations in UK such as New Castle, London-Stansted, Edinburg, East Midl
37 BY738 : AA have already tried STN. The previous seasonal routes to MAN, GLA and BHX are far more likely than EMA or NCL or EDI
38 Viscount724 : And, if not mistaken, only USA-LHR flights. When BA was still operating some US-LGW flights, I believe AA miles could be earned.
39 Post contains images commavia : Matter of time. I've thought about this, too. I think post-ATI, built on the back of IB's obviously huge presence in these markets, AA could maybe ma
40 LHRFlyer : I can maybe extra flights to MAN from ORD etc in time. But the likes of EMA, NCL are unlikely. More regional flights would be good to bring back BA's
41 david_itl : A few suggestions from SQ and EK regarding the J (and for MAN specifically F class) bookings they have reportedly received should start to allay the
42 FCO110 : This would be great - the connections need to improve.
43 Post contains images SATexan : The core strength of this ATI is the US-UK market and hence it is important for AA/BA to solidify the same by penetrating into new markets on the UK s
44 Sketty222 : I was speaking with someone from network planning recently and they categorically stated that BA would not be starting to operate any regional intern
45 commavia : I hear you - and we've all heard plenty of reasons why not. But I keep going back to, and can't get past, that I don't think either airline will ulti
46 Sketty222 : In a way, I agree with you. It would make a great deal of sense to move some of the AA flights into T5 and some BA across in T3 butI just dont see it
47 commavia : Remember: once this deal is done, AA-operated flights in and out of LHR will be, from a financial standpoint, BA flights from BA's perspective. BA wi
48 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : Right now, PK flies BCN-ORD-BCN 2x/weekly with 5th freedom rights. The route started about 6 weeks ago. They are averaging around 35-40 pax each way,
49 Post contains links STT757 : They stated they are "evaluating" proposals, subject to coming to financing agreements with the Port Authority. http://www.aa.com/i18n/urls/nyc.jsp I
50 david_itl : I doubt most of the BA hierarchy has ever heard of MAN, GLA, BHX or EDI for starters. But as the news filtering through is from a source who has had
51 UAL777UK : Lets be honest, it does matter, JV or not. If you are working for AA the last thing you want to hear is that all your loyal passengers of the past ar
52 BY738 : I dont think anyone suggesting it would be BA metal
53 FlyCaledonian : That would be the F&J passengers they are taking to their hubs of SIN (SQ) and DXB (EK), where many of those passengers would then board connecti
54 david_itl : So you do recognise F and J exist outside London in the UK. It's only taken a few years for that to become established. It's a start. I am the type o
55 mikey72 : It's not financially viable for BA to base widebody aircraft and crew at 'regional' airports just to fly to XXX once a day. Other carriers are able t
56 ckfred : One would assume that with delays and missed conncections at LHR, coming from UK/Europe or the U.S., having AA for some flights in T5 would make sens
57 david_itl : which is why I put: If they are transiting, they can do it just as well out of BHX, MAN, GLA or wherever. So low yieding that both airlines can offer
58 vv701 : Under ATI as envisenged by AA and BA it would be irrelevant as to whether passengers flew on AA or BA metal. In terms of profit (or loss) there would
59 mikey72 : Yes didn't you know there's a big conspiracy going on ? BA doesn't have to appease anyone. Yes on a widebodied aircraft and a crew both based in DXB
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